Guild Wars 2

https://gyazo.com/00b160eaeab20703d62c6f5e4c68316f

First it was 1, then it was 3 and finally the ele also switched to scrapper. 4 scrappers and 1 thief because why not if it’s the best results, right?

If this is the “meta”, I’m not even gonna bother with this bs until something is done about it.
This has absolutely nothing to do with pvp anymore, it’s complete nonsense that this is the best option for a “team comp”. Literally just stacking the best class there is as if it’s just a dungeon or something.
I mean really? Come on….

GW2 PvP is just player vs passive. It’s w/e. When overwatch comes, this game is gonna lose like 1/4 of it’s pvper playerbase.

Play stronghold, there is no place for engie in Stronghold, only if he has sneak gyro..other than that it’s worthless!

You were up against three of the best bruiser spec (scrapper), one best overall and healing (tempest), and one best decapper (daredevil) that can hit hard. Looks like a tough comp especially since your side looked very condition heavy while scrappers and tempests have some good cleanse.

Bruisers and healers shouldn’t exist. If they are going to exist, they need to be massively toned down because they’re completely stupid since HOT beta.

To recap, bruisers and tanks compose of, thieves , elementalists, and engi…..
……………………..
……Remember when heavy armor was a thing?

Sun Lian.4075:

https://gyazo.com/00b160eaeab20703d62c6f5e4c68316f

First it was 1, then it was 3 and finally the ele also switched to scrapper. 4 scrappers and 1 thief because why not if it’s the best results, right?

If this is the “meta”, I’m not even gonna bother with this bs until something is done about it.
This has absolutely nothing to do with pvp anymore, it’s complete nonsense that this is the best option for a “team comp”. Literally just stacking the best class there is as if it’s just a dungeon or something.
I mean really? Come on….

Yet this guy https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/class-stacking-is-bad/first#post6161620 is in a thread lower down the page complaining about being on a team with 4 scrappers (and losing), if you think 4 scrappers is best option for a team comp, says more about you than anything else.

See https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/4jxmrv/pvp_class_tier_list_5172016/ for something closer to the reality of things.

What burns me is how PvE elements can win or lose a match in PvP

It’s funny how engi isn’t even that strong right now and people still complain about it.

Maybe not 1 engi, but 4 and all with sneak gyro is pretty ridiculous.

Why else would they all switch to engi if it’s not op.

Shiyo.3578:

Bruisers and healers shouldn’t exist..

O rly? And why is that? Because Arenanet said “no trinity” ? They’ve said some other stuff that also feels outdated you know. In reality a rpg needs its class roles whether you like it or not. I’d love to be able to build a real tank who may be unable to kill anything but would also be nearly impossible to kill in return. On the other hand everyone being a berserker/condi spammer is a problem.

I said if they’re going to exist they need to not be as strong as they’ve been an entire expac.

For example, watching a druid run around in circles living forever not actually avoiding damage or doing anything properly yet still living forever isn’t even fun to watch as a player WHILE you’re fighting them. I can’t imagine watching that as a spectator.

Shiyo.3578:

Bruisers and healers shouldn’t exist. If they are going to exist, they need to be massively toned down because they’re completely stupid since HOT beta.

What?

Please do the same with Conditions spam builds.

We are into a condition meta stacking Warrior, Mesmer and Necro most of the matches. It’s not even funny.

And you ask to nerf the support that cleanses you?
You ask to nerf the bruiser that hold the point versus all that conditions spam going on?

Man… we are in the worse conditions meta since 2012.

Get ready to see QQ at the next level for season 3.

They need to BUFF healers, aka Bunker guardian and shoutbow, in giving them both more cleanses on shouts.

bLind.6278:

GW2 PvP is just player vs passive. It’s w/e. When overwatch comes, this game is gonna lose like 1/4 of it’s pvper playerbase.

Looking forward to playing a game with an actual balance team.

Overwatch won’t be a balanced game and it will be full with cheaters and hackers. Why? Because it’s Blizzard. They never had a game with good balance and without cheaters running wild.

CptCuddles.8912:

bLind.6278:

GW2 PvP is just player vs passive. It’s w/e. When overwatch comes, this game is gonna lose like 1/4 of it’s pvper playerbase.

Looking forward to playing a game with an actual balance team.

How bad are things here if someone think Blizzard’s notorious history of kitten poor balancing looks appealing?

Starbreaker.6507:

CptCuddles.8912:

bLind.6278:

GW2 PvP is just player vs passive. It’s w/e. When overwatch comes, this game is gonna lose like 1/4 of it’s pvper playerbase.

Looking forward to playing a game with an actual balance team.

How bad are things here if someone think Blizzard’s notorious history of kitten poor balancing looks appealing?

It’s not that things are bad here, but rather that the grass is greener on the other side and right now Overwatch is the new shiny that everyone’s hyping over. I’m sure it will be a good, successful game, but once it’s been out for a while people will realize that it’s not some magic, God’s gift to PvP. Instead, it’s just another FPS game with it’s own balance issues.

But in the meantime, we’ll just have to deal with salty posts like this where people transpose their own struggles onto whatever external blaming they can (in this case, class balance) while they transfix themselves with their starry-eyed fanboy fanaticism towards the next up and coming shiny game that will eventually become just as mired in salty QQ.

Older gamers here should be able to recognize this pattern easily enough.

Dahkeus.8243:

Starbreaker.6507:

CptCuddles.8912:

bLind.6278:

GW2 PvP is just player vs passive. It’s w/e. When overwatch comes, this game is gonna lose like 1/4 of it’s pvper playerbase.

Looking forward to playing a game with an actual balance team.

How bad are things here if someone think Blizzard’s notorious history of kitten poor balancing looks appealing?

It’s not that things are bad here, but rather that the grass is greener on the other side and right now Overwatch is the new shiny that everyone’s hyping over. I’m sure it will be a good, successful game, but once it’s been out for a while people will realize that it’s not some magic, God’s gift to PvP. Instead, it’s just another FPS game with it’s own balance issues.

But in the meantime, we’ll just have to deal with salty posts like this where people transpose their own struggles onto whatever external blaming they can (in this case, class balance) while they transfix themselves with their starry-eyed fanboy fanaticism towards the next up and coming shiny game that will eventually become just as mired in salty QQ.

Older gamers here should be able to recognize this pattern easily enough.

lol old players. You must be new.

Coming up on 4 years of the same merry-go-round of missed opportunities is enough to drive most away. Have no fear though, with the amount of player vs passives they’ll be able to substitute AI. The starry-eyed fanboys won’t even be able to tell the difference.

bLind.6278:

GW2 PvP is just player vs passive. It’s w/e. When overwatch comes, this game is gonna lose like 1/4 of it’s pvper playerbase.

more than that.

Overwatch balance is excellent, and at least every hero is viable in some way. there is a ton of comp variety in the game, not to mention the gameplay is hella fun. 5 more days, until then Dota 2.

CptCuddles.8912:

Looking forward to playing a game with an actual balance team.

With that team composition you really should have won. Engi stack would have been hell last season, but post nerf they can be dealt with.
As far as Overwatch is concerned it is a completely different game, and if Blizzard is behind it, you better believe players will find a way to break the game play.

Dudes been pushing OW for a month now, with every post. The term shill comes to mind.

I remember a few months ago people were hyping Black Desert Online as the death of GW2, too bad that game turned out to be a dumpster fire of terrible pop in and incomprehensible combat.

Overwatch is awesome, I am looking forward to playing it more but to pretend that its balanced is just too funny. You can find a ton of tier lists already for the game and in the pro scene there is a definitive best comp as of the last tourney. Dont for a second think you will find the wonderland of everything equally balanced over there.

DOTA2 has straight up terrible balance and people love that game. Some of the heroes are pick/banned in 100% of tournament play in a given patch. Most of the larger tournaments feature 20ish heroes being picked 80%+ of the time. Thats out of over 100 in total.

Basically what I am saying is that the grass is not greener in regards to balance in other games.

BDO was just another average MMO. OW is a competitive fps game, with dedicated pvp support. this has nothing to do with OW and GW2 being completely different games…people dont have time these days, and when it comes to playing that one game after a stressful day, it will be OW over this circus.

Was it ever pvp? It’s been a circus fest since day 1 of this neverending “early access” game

gebrechen.5643:

Overwatch won’t be a balanced game and it will be full with cheaters and hackers. Why? Because it’s Blizzard. They never had a game with good balance and without cheaters running wild.

They have big servers with insane double precision compute that an average person can’t even afford and on top of that they have sophisticated software for dealing with such things. They’re upgrading to Pascal Tegras too so their FP64 and other computes will soar to new heights.

Overwatch is awesome, I am looking forward to playing it more but to pretend that its balanced is just too funny. You can find a ton of tier lists already for the game and in the pro scene there is a definitive best comp as of the last tourney. Dont for a second think you will find the wonderland of everything equally balanced over there.

It’s a new game so of course it’ll be overpowered. From my limited beta experience McGree and Lucio seem overpowered due to Lucio’s passive speed and healing boosts and McGree’s fast and accurate six shooter.

If you’re talking about a pro scene then they could make anything look good.

Dahkeus.8243:

Starbreaker.6507:

CptCuddles.8912:

bLind.6278:

GW2 PvP is just player vs passive. It’s w/e. When overwatch comes, this game is gonna lose like 1/4 of it’s pvper playerbase.

Looking forward to playing a game with an actual balance team.

How bad are things here if someone think Blizzard’s notorious history of kitten poor balancing looks appealing?

It’s not that things are bad here, but rather that the grass is greener on the other side and right now Overwatch is the new shiny that everyone’s hyping over. I’m sure it will be a good, successful game, but once it’s been out for a while people will realize that it’s not some magic, God’s gift to PvP. Instead, it’s just another FPS game with it’s own balance issues.

But in the meantime, we’ll just have to deal with salty posts like this where people transpose their own struggles onto whatever external blaming they can (in this case, class balance) while they transfix themselves with their starry-eyed fanboy fanaticism towards the next up and coming shiny game that will eventually become just as mired in salty QQ.

Older gamers here should be able to recognize this pattern easily enough.

How anyone could defend almost four years of poor balance is beyond me. I used to keep telling myself they would turn it around because the mistakes they made were so blatantly awful there was no way it could persist.

Does anyone even remember when runes were overhauled to create build diversity and they just made strength runes so clearly overpowered every build used them? Or how about the entire year of turret engis? The list goes on and on. Now we are left with a state of balance that just makes every class face roll.

So yes I know the grass is greener elsewhere because it can’t get much worse than what this game has provided.

your whole team was aoe condi cheese why does it surprise you your enemy team decided to get their team made to cleanse alot

if scrappers stack cleanse its OP but running reapers and mesmers condi spam is ok? LOL

Shiyo.3578:

Bruisers and healers shouldn’t exist. If they are going to exist, they need to be massively toned down because they’re completely stupid since HOT beta.

I’ve been saying this since before the coined term for what we now call “bruiser” existed.

It’s naturally unhealthy for our game type and only creates problems.

As for VS Overwatch? It’s balanced character per character in a more hand crafted way everything has a much more specific counter. Thus you are encouraged to counter comp on the fly, and it is much more balanced team v team this way.

If you do that for GW2 often ppl end up with dishonor lol. Which “counter comp/building (if your a moba)” and the “progression of a match” is ANOTHER thing holding GW2 back from E-sports, if you get a team of DH vs a team of thiefs sure either side could win, but this is pretty one sided vs same skill level and the players are virtually locked into their pick. (not that anyone should ever run these comps, or could in tournaments, bust still it shows the imbalance)

Also when there are clear counters to bruisers like moa taking away the chain of defenses, then ppl cry and it gets nerfed. So we’re left with ‘you have to counter comp’, with very little preemptive information, on a game where switching from one class to another is a big deal for muscle memory as opposed to overwatch where the next character still plays like a TF2 shooter character.

I’m not the biggest fan of Blizzard (hated WoW, and lol @ Diablo) but in my eyes SC has gotten it right in terms of balance since broodwar, the more recent issues of imbalance since HoT(swarm) aside, it has always been much more balanced compared to GW2 imo. Since things so far seem pretty good overwatch is a lot more appealing than GW2’s PvP.

Really the game is to far gone by this point, from issues of optimization, to balance. GW2 should just focus on balancing around 1v1s, shift more towards B/S style arenas, then introduce 2v2s, and 3v3s, then we’ll have a significantly closer to e-sport game than we have now.

But instead we’ll get a burst, or full bunker meta next, and people will cry and the cycle will continue. For a game about defending/attacking stuff, Overwatch has a good TTK.

#NotSaltyJustFedUp
#LargeWinStreaksNoNeedForTearsYet.

CptCuddles.8912:

Dahkeus.8243:

Starbreaker.6507:

CptCuddles.8912:

bLind.6278:

GW2 PvP is just player vs passive. It’s w/e. When overwatch comes, this game is gonna lose like 1/4 of it’s pvper playerbase.

Looking forward to playing a game with an actual balance team.

How bad are things here if someone think Blizzard’s notorious history of kitten poor balancing looks appealing?

It’s not that things are bad here, but rather that the grass is greener on the other side and right now Overwatch is the new shiny that everyone’s hyping over. I’m sure it will be a good, successful game, but once it’s been out for a while people will realize that it’s not some magic, God’s gift to PvP. Instead, it’s just another FPS game with it’s own balance issues.

But in the meantime, we’ll just have to deal with salty posts like this where people transpose their own struggles onto whatever external blaming they can (in this case, class balance) while they transfix themselves with their starry-eyed fanboy fanaticism towards the next up and coming shiny game that will eventually become just as mired in salty QQ.

Older gamers here should be able to recognize this pattern easily enough.

How anyone could defend almost four years of poor balance is beyond me. I used to keep telling myself they would turn it around because the mistakes they made were so blatantly awful there was no way it could persist.

Does anyone even remember when runes were overhauled to create build diversity and they just made strength runes so clearly overpowered every build used them? Or how about the entire year of turret engis? The list goes on and on. Now we are left with a state of balance that just makes every class face roll.

So yes I know the grass is greener elsewhere because it can’t get much worse than what this game has provided.

You’re certainly welcome to look for greener pasteurs. In my 11+ years of MMO gaming I’ve seen better than the current state, but not by much and I’ve certainly seen a lot worse.

Agemnon.4608:

It’s a new game so of course it’ll be overpowered. From my limited beta experience McGree and Lucio seem overpowered due to Lucio’s passive speed and healing boosts and McGree’s fast and accurate six shooter.

If you’re talking about a pro scene then they could make anything look good.

you dont understand the game enough. watching most tourneys throughout beta, ive seen pro teams make Genji and Bastion work in comp. Genji for backlining the squishies, and Bastion to hardcounter two Winstons. this is just an example. what i love about OW is that there are ALWAYS counters to cheese. it kind of works like Dota in this regard.

yes, there are THREE overtuned heroes right now at the competitive level: McCree, Lucio, and Widow. meaning that they will always be good picks. however, three slots remain in that comp! it’s not like stacking Lucios, McCrees and Widows actually works.

thing is, blizz has been so responsive with the tuning of the game that i feel confident come launch, these three will be tweaked. what people dont seem to get about OW is that the game is dedicated for pvp and has very simple mechanics. so the balancing process isnt a horrible nightmare, like it is for ANet devs. that’s what you get with STAT customization. MMO can never be a balanced, competitive PVP game. this is why OW will have a huge impact on GW2’s pvp scene. it’s simply a more fun pvp environment that’s easier to get into than Dota 2, for example.

edit:

as someone mentioned above me, GW2 actually PUNISHES counter-comping. this to me is UNBELIEVABLE. to this day, they still havent fully supported proper RPS-balanced pvp. i dont even know what theyre doing in this game…the team has no vision which is the worst part. profs are balanced around 1v1’s (say, bruisers), yet we also have healers and limited condis to counter them (poison, boon hate). it’s like everything is jumbled and it ends up looking like a circus, which this game’s pvp is.

Daishi.6027:

Really the game is to far gone by this point, from issues of optimization, to balance. GW2 should just focus on balancing around 1v1s, shift more towards B/S style arenas, then introduce 2v2s, and 3v3s, then we’ll have a significantly closer to e-sport game than we have now.

But instead we’ll get a burst, or full bunker meta next, and people will cry and the cycle will continue. For a game about defending/attacking stuff, Overwatch has a good TTK.

i really agree with everything youre saying. they definitely need to decide: will the game be balanced around 1v1’s and arena-style gameplay, or RPS? not sure how B&S is doing, but competitive WoW always had terrible balance in their arenas. whereas mobas are a breeze to balance given the small tool kit of each hero. im glad OW went this route.

The root cause of the problem is that the balance team is owned by the PvE team, not PvP team. They care more about raid balancing than PvP balancing.

Dahkeus.8243:

You’re certainly welcome to look for greener pasteurs. In my 11+ years of MMO gaming I’ve seen better than the current state, but not by much and I’ve certainly seen a lot worse.

Bro Ive seen alot better. Its called PvP pre HoT. And if you really wana compare it to other games look at stuff like TF2. Yes its technically a different genre, but they had no problem balancing utterly different classes against one another.

for crying out loud just look at our snowball minigame on wintersday. 3 classes. Good balance.

Silhouette.5631:

Dahkeus.8243:

You’re certainly welcome to look for greener pasteurs. In my 11+ years of MMO gaming I’ve seen better than the current state, but not by much and I’ve certainly seen a lot worse.

Bro Ive seen alot better. Its called PvP pre HoT. And if you really wana compare it to other games look at stuff like TF2. Yes its technically a different genre, but they had no problem balancing utterly different classes against one another.

for crying out loud just look at our snowball minigame on wintersday. 3 classes. Good balance.

something you might ve failed to notice is how Everyone was changing to a Warrior profession because warriors in the wintersday event got a long range Dash wich knocked down and also Reflected all projectiles for the duration of said dash

so players all they had to do was roll a warrior grab the swiftness at spawn and dash from midway and grab the present and by the time the enemy reached the warriors they were already behind the ice walls behind their team safe

so even something as simple as a 3 professions event got ruined by One skill