I was thinking more along the lines of the expletives I want to use. And this is all the history can show, if you look back at my last 30 it’s far worse than this.
Yup, I’m actually done with this season. I’m not touching it again. I don’t care if it makes it so I can’t get the backpiece. I’ve been sitting on the last tier of saphire for the past ~35 games. And almost everyone has been a loss. It’s statistically impossible that this is happening by some random chance. Their algorithm is trash and they should be ashamed. I won’t be going back in PvP for quite some time, and I have little motivation after this to log in period.
I just broke into sapphire and locked down the first tier. And, predictably and expectedly, the matches are becoming more challenging.
The only encouragement I can offer is just to tell you that I am going through the same thing. So are many of my friends. We are struggling. We win some and lose some. I actually lose far more than I win some days. My last 10 game statistics look very similar to yours. You aren’t the only one.
Ahemm…Get gud!!!!
I’m terribly sorry it’s such a lame thing to say but it’s kinda like the dead horse gif in the mount threads.
Better me saying it than someone who actually means it!
-Win a pip,lose a pip,win a pip,lose a pip,lose a pip,
lose a pip,win 2 pips,lose a pip,lose a pip…………..-
-Go go Espartz.-
So basically, you’re not good enough to proceed in leagues. Not everyone can be legendary =/
And the answer to players that have reached their max level in the league is to lose one
match after the other or stop playing.
Not playing balanced matches with players of the same level,because who would come up with something like that.
Someone here needs to get gud,and it’s not the op
-Win a pip,lose a pip,win a pip,lose a pip,lose a pip,
lose a pip,win 2 pips,lose a pip,lose a pip…………..-
-Go go Espartz.-
So basically, you’re not good enough to proceed in leagues. Not everyone can be legendary =/
Sigh, so let me break it down for those who don’t understand why skill isn’t part of the equation.
Assume for a second I’m absolutely horrible, and have gone as far as I can in leagues. Because of how MMR should work, I should be at a near exact 50-50 win loss ratio if I had hit my skill cap. The problem is that I’m not at a 50-50 which would be what happens when you hit your skill cap. I’m at a much worse ratio. Which is why people say MMR hell exists in this season’s matchmaking. Because my loss ratio shouldn’t be happening, ever. The worst that should happen is 50-50.
I have already hit legend, but matchmaking is still complete trash. You get matched with the same team/party of people over and over into a tiltfest. Not very fun game play design IMO.
If you are in the MMR-snowball, you need to find 2-3 allies to queue with. That should help. Don’t let the matchmaker pick your team. It is most likely hosing you. Either that or pull out some ESL level skill and pull off some amazing clutch carry victories.
Jade Quarry – Esparie
Illustrious Exhausted Primordial Legendary Druid, and Mesmer for fun
PvE | PvP (1500)| WvW | Fractals | Dungeons
I have already hit legend, but matchmaking is still complete trash. You get matched with the same team/party of people over and over into a tiltfest. Not very fun game play design IMO.
Can confirm even in legend balanced games aren’t common.
So basically, you’re not good enough to proceed in leagues. Not everyone can be legendary =/
Sigh, so let me break it down for those who don’t understand why skill isn’t part of the equation.
Assume for a second I’m absolutely horrible, and have gone as far as I can in leagues. Because of how MMR should work, I should be at a near exact 50-50 win loss ratio if I had hit my skill cap. The problem is that I’m not at a 50-50 which would be what happens when you hit your skill cap. I’m at a much worse ratio. Which is why people say MMR hell exists in this season’s matchmaking. Because my loss ratio shouldn’t be happening, ever. The worst that should happen is 50-50.
You’re right. At your skill cap you should be winning 50% of your matches. Since you keep losing, maybe your skill level is at emerald or amber. Unfortunately, you can’t go down a division.
I have already hit legend, but matchmaking is still complete trash. You get matched with the same team/party of people over and over into a tiltfest. Not very fun game play design IMO.
Can confirm even in legend balanced games aren’t common.
to be fair the skill difference in legend is so huge between individual players
I have already hit legend, but matchmaking is still complete trash. You get matched with the same team/party of people over and over into a tiltfest. Not very fun game play design IMO.
Can confirm even in legend balanced games aren’t common.
to be fair the skill difference in legend is so huge between individual players
Maybe there needs to be a division between diamond and legendary? Leagues are supposed to have players of approximate skill level and we really need to have division drops. I’d rather be a Sapphire with a consistent reasonable daily win/loss record instead of a Ruby unfortunate enough to be on the lower MMR end for the pip range.
I have already hit legend, but matchmaking is still complete trash. You get matched with the same team/party of people over and over into a tiltfest. Not very fun game play design IMO.
Can confirm even in legend balanced games aren’t common.
to be fair the skill difference in legend is so huge between individual players
Maybe there needs to be a division between diamond and legendary? Leagues are supposed to have players of approximate skill level and we really need to have division drops. I’d rather be a Sapphire with a consistent reasonable daily win/loss record instead of a Ruby unfortunate enough to be on the lower MMR end for the pip range.
I made a thread suggesting that matchmaking should be base don pips/division and that palyer should lose tiers/divisions after X amount of loses. But it all died in the rain of QQ about ruby and matchmaking.
As it stands, while current leagues are a bit more skill based, they are still farmboards with bit more sprinkles.
As far as legend goes, to be fair, there IS extra division for top player – pro league duhh. That being said, there are too many players that don’t belong in legend or diamond for that matter but as stated before farmboards are farmboards.
Adding that would only worsen legend/diamond queue times since a lot of people do their class profession wins (or try to) due to the limited risk involved by not being able to drop divs.
Like if I knew I was risking losing legend, I’d just stop playing once I hit legend until next league and many other people would too.
Adding that would only worsen legend/diamond queue times since a lot of people do their class profession wins (or try to) due to the limited risk involved by not being able to drop divs.
Like if I knew I was risking losing legend, I’d just stop playing once I hit legend until next league and many other people would too.
You could keep the title and achieves don’t go away. What the problem?
Could also add decay like it is implemented in league – you don’t play for long time, bye tier/division.
By not losing tiers/divisions we just have entire pvp community (besides some better players) in ruby = very big hotjoin where we have all kind of skill represented and farming is unavoidable.
I personally couldn’t care less, i got legend in both season by handicapping myself with one of the worst classes to play in current meta. I got my wings and could afk for the rest of the year. Thing is i probably would queue anyway, even if i was permanently sitting in amber. In first year + after launch there were no real rewards in pvp, people actually played it for pvp. I joined this game for pvp, i loved it (can’t say that about stupid powercreep introduced by HoT). I do however see the issues and i think we do need more players in pvp, even bad ones. Or we won’t have anyone to fight.
Maybe there needs to be a division between diamond and legendary?
Why not simply match enemy teams based on mmr.
It doesn’t work well with pip system. Because every win gives a pip. Meaning you will always face enemies of your MMR but gain as many pips as say team of way better players than you beating a team with way better player than you. We had that last season. Leagues were literary glorified reward track – nothing else. We just had once again all kind of players in legend and diamond that definitely don’t belong there.
It doesn’t work well with pip system. Because every win gives a pip. Meaning you will always face enemies of your MMR but gain as many pips as say team of way better players than you beating a team with way better player than you. We had that last season. Leagues were literary glorified reward track – nothing else. We just had once again all kind of players in legend and diamond that definitely don’t belong there.
That wasn’t what we had in season 1, I’m talking about matching both teammates and opposing teams by mmr, most competitive games do this. Your first 2 sentences don;t make sense, a win in any division is worth a pip.
Jade Quarry [SoX]
Miranda Zero – Ele / Twitch Zero – Mes / Chargrin Soulboom – Engi
Aliera Zero – Guardian / Reaver Zero – Necro
It doesn’t work well with pip system. Because every win gives a pip. Meaning you will always face enemies of your MMR but gain as many pips as say team of way better players than you beating a team with way better player than you. We had that last season. Leagues were literary glorified reward track – nothing else. We just had once again all kind of players in legend and diamond that definitely don’t belong there.
That wasn’t what we had in season 1, I’m talking about matching both teammates and opposing teams by mmr, most competitive games do this. Your first 2 sentences don;t make sense, a win in any division is worth a pip.
Last season matchmaking was almost completely based on MMR. Both enemy and player team were out together based on their MMR. Matchmaking was trying to put every player into 50% win rate. Meaning person with low MMR was facing players with low MMR in emerald, player with high MMR had to beat pro players to get out of emerald. Problem is player with low MMR never faced as much challenge as player with high MMR all the way to the legend. The value of 1 pip for player with high MMR was completely different to a player with low MMR but effect was the same, they both moved to same division and ironically never faced each other (until maybe high legend).
I take example League (competitive enough for you, no?) the matchmaking there IS heavily based on your division/piprange (other terms there, same thing). Meaning each pip in different division/tier there actually had same value to good and bad players. A pip (ca. 20 pts out of 100 there) in silver is hard to get for bad player but easy to get for good player. A pip in diamond division is impossible to get for bad player but represents average/hard difficulty for good player. This is how it should be.
In season 1 pip in amber was really easy for player with low MR and really hard for player with high MMR. 1 pip in diamond division was still relative easy/average for player with low MMR and hard for player with high MMR. What is there not to understand? The player with high MMR had to sweat through entire league to legend while player with low MMR got to legend (where he definitely doesn’t belong) by having “easy” games. Which led to another issues:
- we had really really bad players in legend
- bad players actually got an illusion they belong in legend and now all the QQ spammed on forums about how they are stuck in sapphire/ruby and how it is system fault (meanwhile really good players get multiple accounts to legend) is direct cause of it.
I am not defending current system, it is obviously flawed, but it is better than what we had last season. Leagues/ranked supposed to be competitive and not some welfare track for every casual in game.
I take example League (competitive enough for you, no?) the matchmaking there IS heavily based on your division/piprange (other terms there, same thing). Meaning each pip in different division/tier there actually had same value to good and bad players. A pip (ca. 20 pts out of 100 there) in silver is hard to get for bad player but easy to get for good player. A pip in diamond division is impossible to get for bad player but represents average/hard difficulty for good player. This is how it should be.
Totally different game with a population large enough that pip range does represent skill level therefore they are effectively matching up players of the same mmr. GW2 has a small pop and the way the system is pip range does not represent skill. Effectively league is doing exactly what I am saying. Anywya the pip system has clear issues whether its used by league or other games in that when one reaches their natural plateau its not a pleasant experience to go up and down gaining then losing pips. Basing divisions on the actual mmr as other competitive games do is a far better solution in terms of gamer psychology.
In season 1 pip in amber was really easy for player with low MR and really hard for player with high MMR. 1 pip in diamond division was still relative easy/average for player with low MMR and hard for player with high MMR. What is there not to understand? The player with high MMR had to sweat through entire league to legend while player with low MMR got to legend (where he definitely doesn’t belong) by having “easy” games.
Yes through exploits.
Jade Quarry [SoX]
Miranda Zero – Ele / Twitch Zero – Mes / Chargrin Soulboom – Engi
Aliera Zero – Guardian / Reaver Zero – Necro
I take example League (competitive enough for you, no?) the matchmaking there IS heavily based on your division/piprange (other terms there, same thing). Meaning each pip in different division/tier there actually had same value to good and bad players. A pip (ca. 20 pts out of 100 there) in silver is hard to get for bad player but easy to get for good player. A pip in diamond division is impossible to get for bad player but represents average/hard difficulty for good player. This is how it should be.
Totally different game with a population large enough that pip range does represent skill level therefore they are effectively matching up players of the same mmr. GW2 has a small pop and the way the system is pip range does not represent skill. Effectively league is doing exactly what I am saying. Anywya the pip system has clear issues whether its used by league or other games in that when one reaches their natural plateau its not a pleasant experience to go up and down gaining then losing pips. Basing divisions on the actual mmr as other competitive games do is a far better solution in terms of gamer psychology.
In season 1 pip in amber was really easy for player with low MR and really hard for player with high MMR. 1 pip in diamond division was still relative easy/average for player with low MMR and hard for player with high MMR. What is there not to understand? The player with high MMR had to sweat through entire league to legend while player with low MMR got to legend (where he definitely doesn’t belong) by having “easy” games.
Yes through exploits.
Competitive games do not use pure MMR and even if they do it is connected to the league system they have, in gw2 MMR and leagues are so far from each other it is not even funny.
There were indeed some exploiters but not as many as you would think.
For my last 20-30 games (legendary division, was prestige 2 but not any more) I have had a similar win rate as the OP (20% or lower). However it does not make me hate pvp, infact I think big loss streaks help me enjoy pvp. I look at it this way: if I just won 5 in a row and I am 1 win away from going up a division, I feel positive about the game and think I have a good chance of winning. However when I lose that game it makes me feel absolutely awful and I lose any motivation I have to play. I still do play because I think I need to gain that pip I just lost but I usually get a huge loss streak because I have zero motivation to try to win because of what happened to me the previous game. Right now, with my big loss streak in legendary (I suspect I am in the ‘MMR hell’ that people talk about, but I don’t know for sure because I haven’t played nearly enough over the last few days) I can now appreciate a good game much more- I can lose 500-450 to an awesome comeback and appreciate what the other team did and congratulate them rather than getting angry; I can lose a game on forest to a boss kill and actually see what I could have done to land the final hit rather than getting annoyed and complain about the other team winning by random chance.
This is all because when I am losing a lot, I EXPECT to lose and then actually have fun rather than just raging to myself if I lose. I understand that it can be frustrating before you reach legendary, but I had a long run of losses in diamond and when I was in that loss streak, I really did have more fun because I didn’t care if I won or lost, I just played for fun which is something that not many people seem to do in ranked.
For my last 20-30 games (legendary division, was prestige 2 but not any more) I have had a similar win rate as the OP (20% or lower). However it does not make me hate pvp, infact I think big loss streaks help me enjoy pvp. I look at it this way: if I just won 5 in a row and I am 1 win away from going up a division, I feel positive about the game and think I have a good chance of winning. However when I lose that game it makes me feel absolutely awful and I lose any motivation I have to play. I still do play because I think I need to gain that pip I just lost but I usually get a huge loss streak because I have zero motivation to try to win because of what happened to me the previous game. Right now, with my big loss streak in legendary (I suspect I am in the ‘MMR hell’ that people talk about, but I don’t know for sure because I haven’t played nearly enough over the last few days) I can now appreciate a good game much more- I can lose 500-450 to an awesome comeback and appreciate what the other team did and congratulate them rather than getting angry; I can lose a game on forest to a boss kill and actually see what I could have done to land the final hit rather than getting annoyed and complain about the other team winning by random chance.
This is all because when I am losing a lot, I EXPECT to lose and then actually have fun rather than just raging to myself if I lose. I understand that it can be frustrating before you reach legendary, but I had a long run of losses in diamond and when I was in that loss streak, I really did have more fun because I didn’t care if I won or lost, I just played for fun which is something that not many people seem to do in ranked.
really can agree with this – it can be more relaxing now and I find in myself that the expectation I go into now is that I will lose I have come to terms with where I am and my long losing streaks – there is a sense of not caring anymore and I don’t get angry now more of an oh well feeling losing is the norm now and well I just dust myself off and go again – its strange that I can find fun now anyway – a feeling of going through the motions
Ya, I’ve been stuck in Diamond for about 12 games. Going up some, losing some, and mostly hoping around 0-4 pips. The system is designed to put you into harder and harder divisions. My win rate was about 70-80% going through amber/emerald then 70% in sapphire and ruby. Now I’m facing a solid 50/50 win rate in diamond. I got addicted to the wins, but my opponents seem to be a lot better now. I’ll have to improve more if I want to make legend probably. (Or play a ton of games) So long as the matches are fun, I’ll continue to pvp, but it is hard to get used to the frequent loses now that I’m in my intended division.
Yup, I’m actually done with this season. I’m not touching it again. I don’t care if it makes it so I can’t get the backpiece. I’ve been sitting on the last tier of saphire for the past ~35 games. And almost everyone has been a loss. It’s statistically impossible that this is happening by some random chance. Their algorithm is trash and they should be ashamed. I won’t be going back in PvP for quite some time, and I have little motivation after this to log in period.
Not impossible; just improbable. The notion that it is statistically impossible is known as The Gambler’s Fallacy.
Sigh, so let me break it down for those who don’t understand why skill isn’t part of the equation.
Assume for a second I’m absolutely horrible, and have gone as far as I can in leagues. Because of how MMR should work, I should be at a near exact 50-50 win loss ratio if I had hit my skill cap. The problem is that I’m not at a 50-50 which would be what happens when you hit your skill cap. I’m at a much worse ratio. Which is why people say MMR hell exists in this season’s matchmaking. Because my loss ratio shouldn’t be happening, ever. The worst that should happen is 50-50.
Thing is:
U can get up to higher divisions/tiers due to lucky streaks or teaming up. U cant go down afterwards due to safeguards like not being able to lose tiers or divisions.
So a lot of players are stuck at higher divisions and tiers than where they belong. To make things worse u get grouped with ppl that are in the same boat. Guys that are stuck at a higher division than where they belong who end up in everlasting loops of losses.
The only real fix is to remove those safeguards so youre able to lose tiers and divisions at all levels. That way you create a natural flow and u you drop or rise untill u play vs even minded and skilled players.
Yup, I’m actually done with this season. I’m not touching it again. I don’t care if it makes it so I can’t get the backpiece. I’ve been sitting on the last tier of saphire for the past ~35 games. And almost everyone has been a loss. It’s statistically impossible that this is happening by some random chance. Their algorithm is trash and they should be ashamed. I won’t be going back in PvP for quite some time, and I have little motivation after this to log in period.
This is a prime example; u get pushed up due to some lucky streak. Once at the last tier u end u playing vs mostly ppl who are above your skill level. But since u cant lose tiers youre stuck in an overlasting loop of losses.
Sigh, so let me break it down for those who don’t understand why skill isn’t part of the equation.
Assume for a second I’m absolutely horrible, and have gone as far as I can in leagues. Because of how MMR should work, I should be at a near exact 50-50 win loss ratio if I had hit my skill cap. The problem is that I’m not at a 50-50 which would be what happens when you hit your skill cap. I’m at a much worse ratio. Which is why people say MMR hell exists in this season’s matchmaking. Because my loss ratio shouldn’t be happening, ever. The worst that should happen is 50-50.
Thing is:
U can get up to higher divisions/tiers due to lucky streaks or teaming up. U cant go down afterwards due to safeguards like not being able to lose tiers or divisions.
So a lot of players are stuck at higher divisions and tiers than where they belong. To make things worse u get grouped with ppl that are in the same boat. Guys that are stuck at a higher division than where they belong who end up in everlasting loops of losses.
The only real fix is to remove those safeguards so youre able to lose tiers and divisions at all levels. That way you create a natural flow and u you drop or rise untill u play vs even minded and skilled players.
Yup, I’m actually done with this season. I’m not touching it again. I don’t care if it makes it so I can’t get the backpiece. I’ve been sitting on the last tier of saphire for the past ~35 games. And almost everyone has been a loss. It’s statistically impossible that this is happening by some random chance. Their algorithm is trash and they should be ashamed. I won’t be going back in PvP for quite some time, and I have little motivation after this to log in period.
This is a prime example; u get pushed up due to some lucky streak. Once at the last tier u end u playing vs mostly ppl who are above your skill level. But since u cant lose tiers youre stuck in an overlasting loop of losses.
This is where you don’t understand the matchmaking system this season. The different tier that you are at in a division means nothing. What matters is your MMR and your division. If what you were suggesting about me was true (that I was simply pushed up by dumb luck, which I disagree with but for sake of argument we’ll go with), then I should have hit my oh kitten point where I start losing like crazy in tier 1 of saphire after being pushed out of emerald by luck. You don’t move all the way up to the last tier in a division without hitting that oh kitten point you talk about where you lose because you aren’t good enough. The safeguard against going down because the matches are too hard is the beginning of the division (when the change in difficulty happens), not at the end.
The devs have basically admitted in another thread (the one where the guy models out how the algorithm is broken and MMR hell exists in matlab) that they messed up and the matchmaking this season isn’t working as intended. That’s what I’m complaining about. I’m one of those that got stuck in this mmr hell, and because they refused to fix it mid season, have gotten royally screwed.
If you are in the MMR-snowball, you need to find 2-3 allies to queue with. That should help. Don’t let the matchmaker pick your team. It is most likely hosing you. Either that or pull out some ESL level skill and pull off some amazing clutch carry victories.
This is actually great advice, I paired up with a random person last night (they weren’t amazing, but hadn’t been stuck in MMR hell like I had been) and instantly my matches improved DRASTICALLY. I’m going to try to find some people I know tonight just to help level out the MMR. Once I finish this last tier of saphire I can be done with caring about W/L ratio because I just needed to get into ruby in order to get my wings this year. And I only need a 3-5 win streak to get it. :-/
