Guild Wars 2

For pvp and for balance this patch LOOKS good. Although the proof will be in the testing.

And here is why:

Yes it didnt hit alot of the OP builds and lame skills. But at least it was a baby step in the correct direction. Which is better than a scattergun approach which produced the dhumfire patch.

The positives:

1, Spirit ranger was the worst thing about pvp by quite some distance. Obviously the build was exceptionally powerful. But more than this it ruined all fights just purely down to how many characters are on the screen at once. Hopefully this build is not viable whatsoever (I doubt this is the case but —->testing will show) and if it is then this reduces team fights from 15 on 15 to more like 5 on 5.

2, By reducing the clutter you will be able to see even the stupidly tiny asurans figures and maybe even some skill will come back to the game.

3, Many necros have said a slight reduction in bleeds would help nerf necro. I suggested this grasping dead change on the forums some time ago and I would extend it to the mark of blood which is probably too strong for its cd, its aoe nature and the fact it gives regen. BUT this change is undoubtedly a step in the right direction. Necro is strictly worse than before.

So IF this patches succeeds in cleaning up the battlefield by eliminating the main culprit of AI spam then this will be very positive for many people’s enjoyment of the game.

Then gradually they can work on bringing other ridiculous skills and builds into line.

At least now there will be fun to be had in gw2 pvp. And all fights wont just be like “wtf is going on here, I literally cannot see a thing”.

I posted this in the other thread, but I have a strong suspicion that triple/quadruple spirits will no longer be viable either entirely or “all out at once” because you cannot afford to have 25 seconds of no: protection, blind, or fire (less so on the fire). The elite is still good in its own way but the fact that it can now be controlled and the res has a rather blatantly obvious (and rather long and obvious in activation) animation will probably lessen its godliness amongst elites.

Now, running head first into a fight with spirits out is more less out of the question, so that tackles an already horrendous issue that we had where spirit rangers could just run in, pre-set, and ready to re-set the moment their spirits died. The fact that you can pull/control them means that you can much more reliably blast through their rather paltry health pool as well. (Also no more infinite blind.)

Putrid Mark needs its cooldown increased substantially rather than a change to the conditions/boons it provides.

Ya S/D thief is next on the shaving list.

They will still train Eles and Mesmers to irrelevance, but at least the petting zoo has been made more expensive to maintain XD

Shaving certainly isnt going to bring back all of us players who left because the meta was boring. We need a meta shake up, not shaving to make the meta more balanced.

Parisalchuk.9230:

We need a meta shake up, not shaving to make the meta more balanced.

No, making it more balanced is exactly what we need.
That takes priority over “shake-ups” that could just re-introduce worse problems.

Vena.8436:

Parisalchuk.9230:

We need a meta shake up, not shaving to make the meta more balanced.

No, making it more balanced is exactly what we need.
That takes priority over “shake-ups” that could just re-introduce worse problems.

No one wants to play condi pressure anymore, not matter how balanced it is. It was broken, it left a bad taste in our mouths, we need a pallet cleanser of this meta.

And even so they touched 1 build! Where are the eles or the mesmser?! Necros are certainly still to powerful… Small changes are good an all, but Anet is already hemorrhaging their top players. Small changes will not do.

Im going to play condi Pressure still I think… still very viable strong in this meta.

I’m still skeptical about the future of the game but at least the primary offender has been brought in line. They needed to deal with S/D thief as immediately as the others and they didn’t touch it.

Spirit Rangers are probably the bigger problem of the two though, because you can at least see the S/D thief even though you can’t really target him that well. The zoo ranger floods the screen with fail and misery which makes teamfights hard as hell to participate in.

jmatb.6307:

I’m still skeptical about the future of the game but at least the primary offender has been brought in line. They needed to deal with S/D thief as immediately as the others and they didn’t touch it.

Spirit Rangers are probably the bigger problem of the two though, because you can at least see the S/D thief even though you can’t really target him that well. The zoo ranger floods the screen with fail and misery which makes teamfights hard as hell to participate in.

Your forgetting fire and forget fear necromancers which can stand back and dominate a team fight. Its not 1 or another on these broken builds, they all are far too overpowered and caused this meta to suck.

I agree that at a glance this patch looks like a step in the right direction, but I do not think that it will eliminate the Spirit Ranger from viability and Necro is still going to need a bit more shaving.

I suspect that this patch makes a duplication of the Ranger in a 5 man comp more necessary than it had been previously. While it does reduce the map clutter at team fights a bit forcing the rangers to cycle their casts and not just fire & forget, the Spirits still bring a lot of passive benefit to the table that can’t be matched by other professions, and the ranger is still going to sit defensively on their evades and/or 1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1. The Rez Spirit is still really strong in particular, and having a second copy of it just got more important.

Necro is going to change very little with the patch. 1 stack of bleed doesn’t make a lot of difference considering that the more popular variants of the Terrormancer can burst effectively without even landing a Scepter #2. Mark of Evasion and/or staff mastery may be marginally more useful as a result of this change, but the general issue of fast, repeatable, AoE application of several conditions is still unaddressed. If they took the Bleed off of Scepter 2 and gave it any of the non-DoT conditions, then it still wouldn’t really prevent the Necros from being able to condi-spike. I suppose the damage from Necro’s is undeniably less than it had been, but the issue was more the impossibility of mitigating said damage than the sheer volume of it, and there still isn’t a reliable way to cleanse that burst, so there will most likely be a need for more action on future patches.

Necros get destroyed by Warriors though, mainly because a lot of Necros get greedy. If you have a Warrior on your team, then you have more freedom in what you can bring vs. the rest of the team because the Necro is kittenting his pants at that matchup.

Despite the problems Mesmers had against Necros, Helseth’s build is very strong against them. Necros are always spamming something, so Halting Strike gets a lot of return vs. them. Null Field eats the condis up. Diversion can do a ton of damage if timed well.

S/D thief is still the bane of Mesmers and Eles and quite a few other classes b/c they can spam 6 evades in a row easily and have the most efficient endurance in the game with Zerker damage.

Necro is closer to being balanced than that crap.

I’m concerned that one of the two clear top builds was nerfed significantly while the other was not changed (one stack of bleed in GW2 is somewhere between 100-500 damage, depending on how quickly it gets cleansed).

Just like nerfing one build effectively buffs the builds it countered, nerfing one OP build effectively buffs similarly powerful builds.

The only stupid OP spec left is S/D thief IMO. Necros have to have Plague up to be able to survive a Warrior fight if they bring greedy utilities. If they don’t bring greedy utilities they can’t Spite-Epi or Corrupt Boon-Epi, which cuts into their pressure.

S/D thief still eliminates Mesmer and Ele from competitive play. Necro doesn’t have that effect.

2 month waiting for a patch and this is what they came up with?! lol

jmatb.6307:

The only stupid OP spec left is S/D thief IMO. Necros have to have Plague up to be able to survive a Warrior fight if they bring greedy utilities. If they don’t bring greedy utilities they can’t Spite-Epi or Corrupt Boon-Epi, which cuts into their pressure.

S/D thief still eliminates Mesmer and Ele from competitive play. Necro doesn’t have that effect.

It’s not OP. Condi spam and AoE spam shuts S/D thief down hard. Besides last time I checked mesmer was still the top dueling class. Just because you don’t want to use a build that counters S/D thief does not make them OP at all.

jmatb.6307:

The only stupid OP spec left is S/D thief IMO. Necros have to have Plague up to be able to survive a Warrior fight if they bring greedy utilities. If they don’t bring greedy utilities they can’t Spite-Epi or Corrupt Boon-Epi, which cuts into their pressure.

S/D thief still eliminates Mesmer and Ele from competitive play. Necro doesn’t have that effect.

No, CC regen warriors, necro aoe, and s/d thief are still the issues.

Mesmers and eles are fine as is.

jmatb.6307:

S/D thief still eliminates Mesmer and Ele from competitive play. Necro doesn’t have that effect.

Hmm, that’s an interesting point. S/D thieves aren’t really what’s dominating the meta so I hadn’t thought of them as being “the” OP build, but I suppose you could define OP as anything that similar builds from other professions obsolete. I’m not sure I agree with you, but it’s an interesting way to look at things.

Excalibur.9748:

jmatb.6307:

The only stupid OP spec left is S/D thief IMO. Necros have to have Plague up to be able to survive a Warrior fight if they bring greedy utilities. If they don’t bring greedy utilities they can’t Spite-Epi or Corrupt Boon-Epi, which cuts into their pressure.

S/D thief still eliminates Mesmer and Ele from competitive play. Necro doesn’t have that effect.

It’s not OP. Condi spam and AoE spam shuts S/D thief down hard. Besides last time I checked mesmer was still the top dueling class. Just because you don’t want to use a build that counters S/D thief does not make them OP at all.

An average warrior can melt down a s/d thief, condis will destroy a s/d thief, mesmer burst (if timed well instead if burning all cool downs on the beginning of the fight) obliterates s/d thieves but hey… nerf them again! they are use to it anyway, every single patch has nerfed all of there weapon sets since release even the laughable shortbow so yeah… kitten it! go ahead and nerf them again.

I’m not talking about how Necro counters S/D thief. Anybody that doesnt have CC is going to have trouble vs. a Necro lol.

I’m talking about how S/D thief can get free kills on Mesmers and Eles the whole match without really trying. It’s like starting out in Dota 2 with a lvl 10 carry in that matchup lol

jmatb.6307:

I’m not talking about how Necro counters S/D thief. Anybody that doesnt have CC is going to have trouble vs. a Necro lol.

I’m talking about how S/D thief can get free kills on Mesmers and Eles the whole match without really trying. It’s like starting out in Dota 2 with a lvl 10 carry in that matchup lol

Yeh S/D thief will kill mesmer and ele with their eyes closed. It will kill anything though, even if it is losing it can run off and come back with full cooldowns (cos it doesnt have any) vs a class who has blown all his cooldowns.

jmatb.6307:

I’m not talking about how Necro counters S/D thief. Anybody that doesnt have CC is going to have trouble vs. a Necro lol.

I’m talking about how S/D thief can get free kills on Mesmers and Eles the whole match without really trying. It’s like starting out in Dota 2 with a lvl 10 carry in that matchup lol

You need to look at your build or gameplay, because for the longest time mesmer is considered a counter to S/D thief. Maybe it’s just the nerfs beginning to pile up for your class, but S/D thief is not a counter for mesmer.

I can agree with S/D counters boon-reliant classes, as it was intended.

Volrath.1473:

Excalibur.9748:

jmatb.6307:

The only stupid OP spec left is S/D thief IMO. Necros have to have Plague up to be able to survive a Warrior fight if they bring greedy utilities. If they don’t bring greedy utilities they can’t Spite-Epi or Corrupt Boon-Epi, which cuts into their pressure.

S/D thief still eliminates Mesmer and Ele from competitive play. Necro doesn’t have that effect.

It’s not OP. Condi spam and AoE spam shuts S/D thief down hard. Besides last time I checked mesmer was still the top dueling class. Just because you don’t want to use a build that counters S/D thief does not make them OP at all.

An average warrior can melt down a s/d thief, condis will destroy a s/d thief, mesmer burst (if timed well instead if burning all cool downs on the beginning of the fight) obliterates s/d thieves but hey… nerf them again! they are use to it anyway, every single patch has nerfed all of there weapon sets since release even the laughable shortbow so yeah… kitten it! go ahead and nerf them again.

A well played D/P thief is fearsome.

Lol don’t even start with this warrior counters S/D thief crap. If you have any idea how warriors use their skills you can evade every single one of their good ones. If they skull crack you and burst you down, you don’t know how to use Sword 2.

If anything Warriors counter D/P more than S/D. If you can’t blind people in D/P you’re screwed. In S/D you just evade their telegraphed moves…

They’ve nerfed thief so much because stealth + burst damage is always going to be powerful. When you have good initiative management you extend fights in complete glass cannon builds, escape easily, and can move in quickly with Winfiltrator’s Signet, Shadow Step, and have cross map mobility with Shadow Trap…

The class is fine outside of S/D

Excalibur.9748:

jmatb.6307:

I’m not talking about how Necro counters S/D thief. Anybody that doesnt have CC is going to have trouble vs. a Necro lol.

I’m talking about how S/D thief can get free kills on Mesmers and Eles the whole match without really trying. It’s like starting out in Dota 2 with a lvl 10 carry in that matchup lol

You need to look at your build or gameplay, because for the longest time mesmer is considered a counter to S/D thief. Maybe it’s just the nerfs beginning to pile up for your class, but S/D thief is not a counter for mesmer.

I can agree with S/D counters boon-reliant classes, as it was intended.

TROLOLOL

I like the “shave” they applied to Spirit Rangers. It seems like a decent middle ground. I never like it when a build is totally removed from viability, and from what I can tell they have brought it down while not totally removing its viability. Unless the PvP community views these changes to be more harsh than they actually are I can still see them being used.

If Spirit Rangers are to be removed from the meta I want it to be because Warriors are countering them, not because they were nerfed into oblivion.

jmatb.6307:

Excalibur.9748:

jmatb.6307:

I’m not talking about how Necro counters S/D thief. Anybody that doesnt have CC is going to have trouble vs. a Necro lol.

I’m talking about how S/D thief can get free kills on Mesmers and Eles the whole match without really trying. It’s like starting out in Dota 2 with a lvl 10 carry in that matchup lol

You need to look at your build or gameplay, because for the longest time mesmer is considered a counter to S/D thief. Maybe it’s just the nerfs beginning to pile up for your class, but S/D thief is not a counter for mesmer.

I can agree with S/D counters boon-reliant classes, as it was intended.

TROLOLOL

I’m not trolling. The verdict on the thief forums thus far is that we counter shatter and confusion mesmer, but phantasm mesmer counter S/D. So it’s 50/50, and we kinda counter each other.

Lol Phantasm counter s/d thief? The ammount of evades in this build is ridiculous that they can evade whole duelist unload + simply evade with double tap the izerker.
Also lol on how necro eats s/d with aoe → thief jsut rolls through marks, and if u miss DS3 ur left with no fear while he evades all condi skills.
Stop giving a crap and play vs good opponents not ur hj “pros”. If a thief fails to glass mes or necro hes simply bad.

S/D is the biggest beast in this game atm and need a wise nerf (not to the ground!!!!!).

lol I guess you could counter it that way, but cheese vs. cheese is really the best this game can do? >.>

BurrTheKing.8571:

If Spirit Rangers are to be removed from the meta I want it to be because Warriors are countering them, not because they were nerfed into oblivion.

That’s why I stopped using spirits. I can’t describe how nice it was to have stunbreaks again!

Wombat.3510:

BurrTheKing.8571:

If Spirit Rangers are to be removed from the meta I want it to be because Warriors are countering them, not because they were nerfed into oblivion.

That’s why I stopped using spirits. I can’t describe how nice it was to have stunbreaks again!

That’s a good example of player-driven change. I bet you would be pretty strong vs my build because you actually bring some sort of counters, Spirit Rangers do not. People keep claiming Warrior is too strong when they most likely never even attempted to switch up their build to account for it. Some of those same people complain about the current meta while trying to nerf the very class that has the means to counter it.

I think I would still like to see some sort of nerf to the elite spirit. Maybe cut its HP by a third? Or make it so it doesnt activate on death?

BurrTheKing.8571:

Wombat.3510:

BurrTheKing.8571:

If Spirit Rangers are to be removed from the meta I want it to be because Warriors are countering them, not because they were nerfed into oblivion.

That’s why I stopped using spirits. I can’t describe how nice it was to have stunbreaks again!

That’s a good example of player-driven change. I bet you would be pretty strong vs my build because you actually bring some sort of counters, Spirit Rangers do not. People keep claiming Warrior is too strong when they most likely never even attempted to switch up their build to account for it. Some of those same people complain about the current meta while trying to nerf the very class that has the means to counter it.

People dont moan because warrior is OP. They moan because getting stunned for at least 4 seconds every 8 seconds really isnt very fun.

Lordrosicky.5813:

BurrTheKing.8571:

Wombat.3510:

BurrTheKing.8571:

If Spirit Rangers are to be removed from the meta I want it to be because Warriors are countering them, not because they were nerfed into oblivion.

That’s why I stopped using spirits. I can’t describe how nice it was to have stunbreaks again!

That’s a good example of player-driven change. I bet you would be pretty strong vs my build because you actually bring some sort of counters, Spirit Rangers do not. People keep claiming Warrior is too strong when they most likely never even attempted to switch up their build to account for it. Some of those same people complain about the current meta while trying to nerf the very class that has the means to counter it.

People dont moan because warrior is OP. They moan because getting stunned for at least 4 seconds every 8 seconds really isnt very fun.

You think Warriors enjoyed getting kited to death, or conditioned to death? Once again I’ll say that Skull crack is not 4 seconds it’s around 3.75, a minor difference but misinformation is misinformation. If they don’t enjoy it they should consider investing in stun breakers, stability, or any of the many counters to Skull Crack/ Earthshaker.

I understand that in a perfect game certain mechanics should be fun even when used against you but you don’t nerf a class based on that.

I LOL’d hard @ S/D Thief being OP.

Lordrosicky.5813:

I think I would still like to see some sort of nerf to the elite spirit. Maybe cut its HP by a third? Or make it so it doesnt activate on death?

The elite spirit should actually be buffed, so you don’t have to rezz yourself anymore. The spirit will do it for you. This is what animal friends are for… This way, the spirit actively reacts to your passiveness in downstate.

Excalibur.9748:

jmatb.6307:

Excalibur.9748:

jmatb.6307:

I’m not talking about how Necro counters S/D thief. Anybody that doesnt have CC is going to have trouble vs. a Necro lol.

I’m talking about how S/D thief can get free kills on Mesmers and Eles the whole match without really trying. It’s like starting out in Dota 2 with a lvl 10 carry in that matchup lol

You need to look at your build or gameplay, because for the longest time mesmer is considered a counter to S/D thief. Maybe it’s just the nerfs beginning to pile up for your class, but S/D thief is not a counter for mesmer.

I can agree with S/D counters boon-reliant classes, as it was intended.

TROLOLOL

I’m not trolling. The verdict on the thief forums thus far is that we counter shatter and confusion mesmer, but phantasm mesmer counter S/D. So it’s 50/50, and we kinda counter each other.

Yeah, let’s say that for the thief forums all skills of the thief are easy to counter, but for some reason (lack of skill?) the stupid and predictable phantasm are not counterable.

Spirit ranger still viable. Passive nature of the class is still overhelming. Ergo: skillfloor will be low and effectivity of this class is and will stay very high, compared to the effort.
Concept of the class is horrible.

BurrTheKing.8571:

You think Warriors enjoyed getting kited to death, or conditioned to death? Once again I’ll say that Skull crack is not 4 seconds it’s around 3.75, a minor difference but misinformation is misinformation. If they don’t enjoy it they should consider investing in stun breakers, stability, or any of the many counters to Skull Crack/ Earthshaker.

Yeah, but it’s easier to qq on the forums than it is to actually learn your class!

Wombat.3510:

BurrTheKing.8571:

You think Warriors enjoyed getting kited to death, or conditioned to death? Once again I’ll say that Skull crack is not 4 seconds it’s around 3.75, a minor difference but misinformation is misinformation. If they don’t enjoy it they should consider investing in stun breakers, stability, or any of the many counters to Skull Crack/ Earthshaker.

Yeah, but it’s easier to qq on the forums than it is to actually learn your class!

Some of them spend more time here than playing the game it feels like. I on the other hand do this when I should be paying attention at class and be taking notes.

Lordrosicky.5813:

People dont moan because warrior is OP. They moan because getting stunned for at least 4 seconds every 8 seconds really isnt very fun.

This is usually more about utility greed than warriors themselves, though some of those stun chains are incredibly loooooong.

Eles and mesmers are fundamentally ok, if you want to play a s/d burst build than yes you may end up having problems with s/d thieves as they can dodge most of your attacks, but if built differently the ele can be a real challenge for any s/d thief if not straight kill him in the long run.

The most that can happen is you’ll support your team while fending off the desperate s/d thief for the duration of the match, s/d thieves are susceptible to conditions and the ele can be built with enough conditions for this type of target.

The s/d burst build is also good at killing s/d thieves, mind you! it’s much harder than using a d/d build but the burst on them is amazing, a fight that can go both ways..by when ele has become a free for s/d thieves?

As s/d burst you can have huge problems only with fear chain necros while they defend a point in a closed area ( where you can’t dodge without touching a wall :Skyhammer cannon and point A/C- Kylo clocktower – temple gate )

As d/d hybrid..well personally I only have problems with 3 people on me of which one must be a warrior ( the bane of my existence if outnumbered ) and s/d thieves will find a reall challenge and most will run away ( I can’t catch them anyway ) or simply try for all match to kill me

@Jmatb : no, the ele does not require boons to be played at all, try it, or you can simply time your dodge against s/d thieves as they’ll all use same strategy with signet teleport, infiltrator strike- shadow retreat and lyssa rune almost on recharge with basilisk’s venom, with d/d you can hit them with burning speed as they teleport to you( try this trick : burning speed – LF 1s befofe impact , teleport to them ) then dragon’s breath bonanza..in the end s/d thieves are not easy but eles are not a free kill for them at all

Arheundel.6451:

@Jmatb : no, the ele does not require boons to be played at all, try it, or you can simply time your dodge against s/d thieves as they’ll all use same strategy with signet teleport, infiltrator strike- shadow retreat and lyssa rune almost on recharge with basilisk’s venom, with d/d you can hit them with burning speed as they teleport to you( try this trick : burning speed – LF 1s befofe impact , teleport to them ) then dragon’s breath bonanza..in the end s/d thieves are not easy but eles are not a free kill for them at all

Time your dodges? Right. You have BY NO MEANS enough dodges to mitigate the damage from a proper s/d thief training you. The ones who weave auto attacks in between larcenous strike will pressure you nonstop with 1,5k- 3k(crits), and the only way to kill a top tier s/d thief as an s/d ele is by catching him in one of those rare moments when he isn’t dodging/evading, below 80% hp, with double arcane skills and lightning strike, or predicting the moment he ports in and throw phoenix into air attune + arcane burst. Most of the time, however, the great s/d thieves will just catch you while you are focusing another target, and kitten you hard. You could argue that ele can do the same to s/d thief, but s/d thieves are dodging or evading more than half the time they are in the fight…

jmatb.6307:

The only stupid OP spec left is S/D thief IMO. Necros have to have Plague up to be able to survive a Warrior fight if they bring greedy utilities. If they don’t bring greedy utilities they can’t Spite-Epi or Corrupt Boon-Epi, which cuts into their pressure.

S/D thief still eliminates Mesmer and Ele from competitive play. Necro doesn’t have that effect.

When S/D thief is nerfed, mesmers will be back on the plate and circle jerk will continue.

This patch was good for 2 reasons:

1. It toned down 2 powerful builds.
2. It didn’t power up anyone else to tip the scales in the opposite direction.