This tPvP is a lost cause

This tPvP is a lost cause

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Posted by: leman.7682

leman.7682

That’s what it is. I can’t see why someone who played GW1 would ever like it.

I just lost all faith, I wanted to like this PvP, I tried from the Headstart. At first it was a blast, but right now I just hate it. Meta is boring, Conquest is a fail, there are no basic features.

GW2 tPvP is less fun than LoL and GW1. It’s less fun than most of the games I played. This marks a death of some standards we were used to.

I don’t write it because I hate Anet. I do share this feedback because I hate what Anet did with our favourite game. They took everything we loved about Guild Wars 1 PvP and put it into a trashcan.

I hope Jon and Chap and whoever designed it read these forums so they can evaluate.
Also, the studio head should look back and think of rehiring the masterminds that created GW1 PvP, so they can fix this mess.

But maybe it’s just me…

As always I’m redirecting anyone to these two topics, they deserve more recognition.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/pvp/Lost-potential

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/pvp/Guild-Wars-2-Competitive-Game-Analysis/

Leman

(edited by leman.7682)

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Posted by: Cogbyrn.7283

Cogbyrn.7283

Are there any numbers on how many people actively engaged in competitive PvP in GW1? If anyone has it, feel free to PM it to me. I don’t want to start a numbers game, I’m just genuinely curious how popular it was for my own knowledge.

Earlier, I saw Braxxus post that he’s actually most angry about the fact that he can’t carry his team even more with individual play (I think I remember that right), while others are partly disappointed that the emphasis on team is overshadowed by other mechanics.

I feel bad for those who expected something more akin to GW1 and were let down, but then again, the foundation GW2 has set is exactly the MMO I’ve been trying to find for years. Every other MMO has fallen flat for one reason or another, except this game. It has its problems, but I can accept them considering the amount of fun I have.

Also, I have yet to find a single thing about LoL that I think is better than DotA 2, and the boring meta award for me goes to SC2. I followed professional SC2 for months and months with very few positive surprises in meta/gameplay evolution.

Different strokes, I suppose.

Alduin Nightsong, 80 Human Necro
“He’s like a man with a fork in a world of soup.”

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Posted by: Zero.8145

Zero.8145

Check out my recent post:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/pvp/Guild-Wars-2-Competitive-Game-Analysis/first#post478139

I address many of the major points gw1 players have with gw2

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Posted by: alcopaul.2156

alcopaul.2156

the greatest guild wars 1 pvp that ive ever watched was the war machine and the lamers ultimate majority match. it was not a mirror match and lum build countered war machine but because the skill level of the koreans was high, they won. very epic match. this was circa 2006 i think. guilds post 2006 doesnt even compare.

thats the only thing that i loved about guild wars 1 pvp. and iway, which they put into trashcan even before they started announcing guild wars 2. i saw iway in tpvp warrior bar and they put it again in trashcan when gw2 was released.

(edited by alcopaul.2156)

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Posted by: alcopaul.2156

alcopaul.2156

and mending, that leet gw1 monk skill that i hated, well they brought back in gw2. kitten

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Posted by: GustavoM.7605

GustavoM.7605

If I had to make a brief review of what PvP looks like In GW2, I’d say:

“Think Call of Duty with RPG elements, where everyone Is holding a Sniper Rifle”.

ITT: They focused too much In the action, and let strategy/tactics aside In a corner. It’s like an attempt to let PvP more casual and “easy” for everyone.

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Posted by: Marxo.3829

Marxo.3829

If you were interested in improving PvP you should consider writing out well thought out opinions on various facets of the game and critiques of mechanics you are/are not in favor of.

Instead you went on and on about how its all just plain fail how you wanted to like it that other games are just not as bad, your ambivalence to Anet and a bunch of other utterly unhelpful stuff… and then a token link to some other poster’s well articulated critical post.

Maybe you should just save everyone the time and bump that other guy’s post directly instead?

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Posted by: leman.7682

leman.7682

@Zero:
I read your topic, I agree with most of what is written there. A very nice read by the way.
We need more players realising the fundamental flaws of this game’s PvP and talking about them.

@GustavoM:
Pretty much it.

If you were interested in improving PvP you should consider writing out well thought out opinions on various facets of the game and critiques of mechanics you are/are not in favor of.

I did it in the thread I linked. I was patient, I was refraining myself from posting until now as I waited for some meaningful update from the devs. It is non-existent.
This is just a topic that helps me and possibly others shake off the bad feelings, provide even more feedback and move on to something actually fun

The additional problem is – my guild and I were waiting for some news about the future of this PvP and all we got was a goof-post and ‘Less QQ, more pewpew’ which says enough.

This simple post and the meme reference (a joke as later explained) says that Chap likes the game he made (why wouldn’t he) and has no intention to think of ANY changes. People usually joke when they are happy and relaxed and Chap as it seems is hell of a relaxed guy.

That points me into a conclusion everyone who shares our view should acknowledge -

There aren’t going to be any major changes to this PvP. Most we can expect is balance changes (or attempts if I may) and infrastructure (ladders, matchmaking, etc.) and that’s it. Nothing else is to be delivered.
I will miss Guild Wars 1. Guild Wars 2 PvP is never to be remembered.

Leman

(edited by leman.7682)

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Posted by: Zero.8145

Zero.8145

@Zero:
I read your topic, I agree with most of what is written there. A very nice read by the way.
We need more players realising the fundamental flaws of this game’s PvP and talking about them.

Thanks. I just hope more people understand the message im trying to put out there. Apparently people think I’m QQing that bunkers are OP, when in fact I’m attempting to inform them of the underlying problems that conquest promotes. Bunkers or not, I dont care. But the game promotes stale gameplay in the form that bunkers bring. People are so narrowminded -_-’

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Posted by: leman.7682

leman.7682

Conquest mode is the main reason for the imbalances in PvP gameplay. The assumptions that led to its creation were alright, but it just won’t work in the long-run. Replacing it with something like GvG from original Guild Wars with more entertaining objectives tailored with new mechanics and capabilities in mind could lead to the PvP we all want so much.

It’s the summary of a long post I wrote few weeks ago. I also found the Conquest the main problem of the sPvP. It promotes counter-gaming, stale playstyles and promotes some builds over others. It just creates problems. I hope Anet already acknowledged this one would say obvious fact and is on its way to fix it.

Leman

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Posted by: alcopaul.2156

alcopaul.2156

dude tell me what are the great and fun things about GvG post 2006. was it easier to play? did many people play it? was it fun? did it allow variety of builds?

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Posted by: Bassi.3627

Bassi.3627

It certainly doesn’t help that the game has kitten poor balancing either.

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Posted by: Zero.8145

Zero.8145

dude tell me what are the great and fun things about GvG post 2006. was it easier to play? did many people play it? was it fun? did it allow variety of builds?

Was it easier to play? No. It was a extremely complex system which pushed the skills of the players to their limits in order to be at the top. Not only that, it required the team to be in sync with one another rather than being held by an individual person

Did many people play it? Yes and No. Everybody wanted to play gvg, but found the barrier to entry to get bigger and bigger as the game aged. Experience was required to get into competitive GvG. This then required players to get experience in Tombs, which became elitist with rankings. Not very newcomer friendly.

Was it fun? Smashing teams is always fun. the depth of strategy is fun. out thinking and out maneuvering is fun. So yes it was amazingly fun

Did it allow a variety of build? Yes and No. Essentially you could run whatever you wanted. Most of the limitations came with the skill of the team to pull off whatever crazy strategy they were going for. But variety was never an issue. Yes there were standard balanced builds that were capable of beating any team if run correctly. Then there were the flavor the the months. and then completely gimmicky builds such as iway, sway, etc…

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Posted by: alcopaul.2156

alcopaul.2156

complexity and entry level barrier are probably why a.net decided to give us this simpler mode. they want it to be an esport and if you check real life sports, they have simple objectives, are simple to follow and fun to play. basketball soccer and other teamsports are popular around the world and more popular than chess because of these characteristics.

i bet a.net inspected their gvg servers and noticed that the same circle of people are making smurfs and playing among themselves and told themselves that this is not working.

do you see guildwars 1 being streamed in twitch?

if guild wars 1 is so good you should still see a robust gvg community with influx of new players. but last time that i logged all i see are the same players with trying to be witty guildnames filling up the first page of the ladder

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Posted by: Zero.8145

Zero.8145

complexity and entry level barrier are probably why a.net decided to give us this simpler mode. they want it to be an esport and if you check real life sports, they have simple objectives, are simple to follow and fun to play. basketball soccer and other teamsports are popular around the world and more popular than chess because of these characteristics.

Creating a simpler game is perfectly fine, just so long as the skill ceiling remains extremely high. High enough to allow good players and extremely good players be visibily differentiated between eachother. Starcraft is simple to start to play and follow. Incredibly difficult to play well. Same with MOBA’s. Any highly competitive game ends up being unforgiving in some way, shape, or form.

do you see guildwars 1 being streamed in twitch?

Twitch was not alive during the days of GW1. Observer mode however, had tons of people watching high level competitive GvG, especially during championships.

if guild wars 1 is so good you should still see a robust gvg community with influx of new players. but last time that i logged all i see are the same players with trying to be witty guildnames filling up the first page of the ladder

Games live and die due to developer support, something that left once Guild Wars 2 development started. Their version of “balancing” was definately not the correct decision. For example, they found spirit spamming to be too strong, so they nerfed fertile. Once fertile was nerfed, spike builds started to pop up all over. Spike builds became too strong in their eyes. So they nerf spike build. then defensive build and everything else in the cycle until the balance was so thrown out the window it was unfixable.

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Posted by: alcopaul.2156

alcopaul.2156

so how do you rate the skill ceiling in guildwars 2 and what are your reasons?

about the balancing, they did what is appropriate imo. the mechanics of the game only allowed destructive nerfing to fix overpowered builds because there were no built in features such as changing skills/armors midgame to solve this.in a locked system, a single build will reign supreme being the most versatile and being the favored and this was what happened. the balanced build which was the middle ground was upheld and glass cannon group builds like iway that took advantage of the shortcomings of balanced were nerfed because of the fact that the top players played balanced and not iway.
and if you bring gw1 here then the history will just repeat itself. a.net are smart guys so they certainly learned from this, i hope

(edited by alcopaul.2156)

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Posted by: Braxxus.2904

Braxxus.2904

Cogbyrn

Earlier, I saw Braxxus post that he’s actually most angry about the fact that he can’t carry his team even more with individual play (I think I remember that right),

Yeah pretty much. There’s other things that irritate me which weave into this issue but yeah that’s basically the short version of it.

I try to be honest about it though since it does give bias to my views obviously and it’s important to be up front about it.

Blackwater Vanguard
Yaks Bend

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Posted by: Aleth.9630

Aleth.9630

‘GW2 tPvP is less fun than LoL and GW1. It’s less fun than most of the games I played. This marks a death of some standards we were used to.’

That sounds completely like your personal preference. I can’t see why you used ‘we’ in the 2nd sentence.

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Posted by: Kimbald.2697

Kimbald.2697

Can anyone show me proof that more people are playing GW2 pvp every day?
This is the reasoning used against the OP: if GW1 pvp is so good, than why aren’t people playing it.

Can anyone show me that GW2 pvp is becoming a real e-sport?
Not seeing that either, on the contrary: it seems even the devs are giving up on that one.

I see less people playing GW2 pvp. But don’t take my word for it, I can’t prove it either.

We’ll have to wait: you lot saying GW2 pvp is thriving, and others like me saying it’s going downhill.

Wiggely, wobbely and other wombaty wabbity creatures…

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Posted by: alcopaul.2156

alcopaul.2156

only a.net knows. ask them a comparative server stats on pvp population between gw1 and gw2.

if gw2 pvp fails anet can just release a gw1 uber pvp expansion if gw1 pvp is that good lota of people will buy it. lol

(edited by alcopaul.2156)

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Posted by: Scrag.8765

Scrag.8765

Nobody plays these great old games cause even though good they have flaws and old graphics engines and we want our games upgraded. I know I am always looking for a new game that surpasses the old ones but it seems time and time again I am disappointed in new mmo’s.

The agruement “if its so good it would still be around” is a foolish arguement. We want better games with better graphics, etc. These games get abandoned for a new smoking hot mmo that always fails to please because they are created around a sales strategy and not a game strategy…or simply its a great game – but after 5 years its old.

Stop making excuses for mega rich companies and make a great game.