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Posted by: Threat.7450

Threat.7450

Imagine the devs changed the way raids in GW2 worked.

Imagine they made it so that when you went to do this high end group content, you were forced to enter into a random queue solo or with a single partner. Then you get placed into a group with people you don’t know, playing random classes that may or may not have the support you need, no idea what build they are using. Ideally, everyone would have around the same level of gear or some qualifier to try and make sure everyone is at a similar skill level, but hey, it’s an auto system, so ya know, mistakes are gonna happen.

Then you get dropped into the instance and the Boss fight starts in 60 seconds. Now keep in mind, there in no in-game voice comm to coordinate the team. You just got to figure it out. Hopefully your teammates play with a similar strategy as you, but realistically we know that’s not going to happen consistently.

So the fight starts, you’re getting smashed. After a couple minutes people just start to afk so the timer runs out and they can queue up for another group. After all, they didn’t choose this group dynamic, it’s not ideal in their opinion, why waste more time?

What kind of a response do you think this suggestion would get over in the Raid Forum? Because that is essentially exactly what happened in PvP. High end Ranked PvP is GROUP content. Exactly like raids are high end GROUP content for PvE. Removing team queue and forcing people to random the content is ridiculous.

Complaining that you are losing matches against premades while soloq’ing is insanity. Of course youre losing. That’s the same as entering a raid solo and expecting to win content designed for multiple players.

No one is stopping you from creating a premade team, just the same as no one is stopping you from joining a Raid guild if you choose to play that content.

Every single forum post about matchmaking bad teammates can be solved with the simple solution – pick your own teammates.

I can believe people thought that turning high end group content into a random team generated mode was a good idea.

No wonder it died.

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Posted by: Faux Play.6104

Faux Play.6104

They had that. It was the Pro league. All the best players got on the same team, the league became non competitive because of it, and the game mode died.

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Posted by: megilandil.7506

megilandil.7506

Ranked is to achieve a personal ranking any type of group (duo included) makes personal rank not true it shades your personal rank behind your team rank.
any sort of team tournament or whatever have to be introduced, but ranked is not the place ranked have to stay solo random arena

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Posted by: Shaogin.2679

Shaogin.2679

They had that. It was the Pro league. All the best players got on the same team, the league became non competitive because of it, and the game mode died.

Actually game mode didn’t die until it was pure solo queue so…….yeah.

Ranked is to achieve a personal ranking any type of group (duo included) makes personal rank not true it shades your personal rank behind your team rank.
any sort of team tournament or whatever have to be introduced, but ranked is not the place ranked have to stay solo random arena

You’re still playing on a team, regardless of whether you picked the team or anet did. If you want personal ranking, ask for a 1v1 game mode.

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Posted by: steelheart.7386

steelheart.7386

Lol this is just piling on at this point. The proof is in the pudding even the people that still defend the decision have to admit that the spvp playing population has plummeted from season 4 to now. There are more reasons then just not allowing groups but it was a gigantic mistake to take that option away. The dumbest thing ive ever seen really. It was awful pandering to the worst players and it ended up biting them in the butt.

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Posted by: Kir Sakar.3647

Kir Sakar.3647

Lol this is just piling on at this point. The proof is in the pudding even the people that still defend the decision have to admit that the spvp playing population has plummeted from season 4 to now.

Do you have any proof or numbers to back up that claim?

Anet has stated repeatedly that the vast majority of PvP players plays solo. You sure see how this contradicts your argument.

Charr Chronomancer | Asura Tempest | Charr Druid | Charr Guardian
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Posted by: megilandil.7506

megilandil.7506

They had that. It was the Pro league. All the best players got on the same team, the league became non competitive because of it, and the game mode died.

Actually game mode didn’t die until it was pure solo queue so…….yeah.

pure solo? they are duos, this is unfortunatelly not pure solo

Ranked is to achieve a personal ranking any type of group (duo included) makes personal rank not true it shades your personal rank behind your team rank.
any sort of team tournament or whatever have to be introduced, but ranked is not the place ranked have to stay solo random arena

You’re still playing on a team, regardless of whether you picked the team or anet did. If you want personal ranking, ask for a 1v1 game mode.

Not is the same, in pure random mode you get a personal evaluation trought multiple games(team ranks) were you are the comon denominator, if you can pick a team you can play all games with the same team and that hides your personal rank behind team rank(only one team rank)
they have to be a type of group content but it is not ranked.

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Posted by: Lucentfir.7430

Lucentfir.7430

The best solution here would be to make 2 different queues and leaderboards and separate MMR between the two queues (personal Solo MMR/Team MMR). Make a pure Solo queue and a Team queue (which you can also hop in solo for). Both have their own leaderboards. Team queue having higher pip gain over pure solo queue as a incentive to join team queue. You make solo queuers happy, and you give the option for people who want to play with friends or just cherry pick who you want to queue with happy. If you ditch solo/duo straight up in turn to just bring back the ability to full 5 man team queue we’ll be back to having solo queue farmers, and pretty much every top player is going to queue with the best players and the leaderboard top slots are going to be filled with premade players almost entirely hence why 2 different leaderboards.Though to counter act between the 2 queues if it happens, cut the minimum game requirement around to around 60 for both.

Reth Grimrazor – Charr Guardian – [GWB]Grim Warband – Tarnished Coast
Redgen Furyblaze – Charr Guardian – [SHD]Shade Warband – Tarnished Coast
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(edited by Lucentfir.7430)

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Posted by: Threat.7450

Threat.7450

And what exactly would be wrong with having a leaderboard populated entirely by the best players???

So the best players team up and stomp the worse players and sit on top of the leaderboard. Hmmmm. That kinda sounds like a … what do you call it again… Oh ya … A leaderboard. Gee. That’s weird.

What you soloq’ers are actually saying is:
“I don’t want or am not willing to be on a team in this team mode. That’s going to make it impossible for me to be ranked the best. So let’s make this team mode into a system where I don’t have to play with a team and no one else gets to either. That way it’s way easier for me to see my name written somewhere so I feel good about myself.”

There isn’t enough of a population to separate team and solo queue just in ranked conquest. There wasn’t even enough backing in the beginning and there certainly isn’t now. So it’s gonna have to be mixed.

Are pug teams going to lose to premades? Yes. Maybe not every single time, but alot. The beauty is, if you’re a 733t Gold semipro, you never have to worry about that scrub silver messing up your game and holding you back to keep you out of plat where you belong! Grab another 4 “Map Chat Heroes” and make a super unstoppable power team!!!! Boom!!

Should Anet make a solo 1v1 arena? Sure. Certainly seems like there’s enough interest from people to play a solo ranked game. I can’t see it destroying the team mode. It’s worth looking into maybe. Balance issue, notwithstanding. I don’t know about dev costs or whatever.

Should Anet remove the team queue from their team mode PvP? Ridiculous. Of course not.

Give your heads a shake, people.

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Posted by: Lucentfir.7430

Lucentfir.7430

And what exactly would be wrong with having a leaderboard populated entirely by the best players???

So the best players team up and stomp the worse players and sit on top of the leaderboard. Hmmmm. That kinda sounds like a … what do you call it again… Oh ya … A leaderboard. Gee. That’s weird.

What you soloq’ers are actually saying is:
“I don’t want or am not willing to be on a team in this team mode. That’s going to make it impossible for me to be ranked the best. So let’s make this team mode into a system where I don’t have to play with a team and no one else gets to either. That way it’s way easier for me to see my name written somewhere so I feel good about myself.”

There isn’t enough of a population to separate team and solo queue just in ranked conquest. There wasn’t even enough backing in the beginning and there certainly isn’t now. So it’s gonna have to be mixed.

Are pug teams going to lose to premades? Yes. Maybe not every single time, but alot. The beauty is, if you’re a 733t Gold semipro, you never have to worry about that scrub silver messing up your game and holding you back to keep you out of plat where you belong! Grab another 4 “Map Chat Heroes” and make a super unstoppable power team!!!! Boom!!

Should Anet make a solo 1v1 arena? Sure. Certainly seems like there’s enough interest from people to play a solo ranked game. I can’t see it destroying the team mode. It’s worth looking into maybe. Balance issue, notwithstanding. I don’t know about dev costs or whatever.

Should Anet remove the team queue from their team mode PvP? Ridiculous. Of course not.

Give your heads a shake, people.

I didn’t say anything was wrong with top players teaming up, top players regardless have stayed at the top of the board through every season no doubt, it also goes to say though the past seasons have shown top players are willing to exploit to get where they want to be, just like how early seasons queueing with 1 amber division player(or alt account) in a pre-made got them easy farm matches, as well as match manipulation, smurfing and the such following after that. My gripe is that even outside the known top players, pre-made players are going to be filling up the slots because they have just that much advantage over pug solos.

. What you’re describing is farming unorganized players with a organized group, aka pre-made players dominate the board, while some that occupy the slots aren’t even top grade but got carried with their queue teams, Especially in a ranked environment you’re pulling out all the stops to give yourself as much of a chance to win and with more reason to use comms. The type of leaderboard you describe is all about farming random teams(almost entirely solo teams) with organized ones. That isn’t what a leaderboard is about, as you go up your matches should get harder because you’re fighting against equally skilled players/leveled playing field, it shouldn’t be just because you farmed a bunch of unorganized/bad players while you had the advantage.

What you soloq’ers are actually saying is:
“I don’t want or am not willing to be on a team in this team mode. That’s going to make it impossible for me to be ranked the best. So let’s make this team mode into a system where I don’t have to play with a team and no one else gets to either. That way it’s way easier for me to see my name written somewhere so I feel good about myself.”

Your argument is weak, regardless if you queue solo or with other people in your party you end up on a team. The difference between solo and pre-made is the fact that in a solo the other team has a equal chance of getting either good or bad players just like the other team while pre-mades you cherry pick your team and go against complete randoms. It’d be a different story if pre-mades were fighting pre-mades but sadly that’s not the case you’re presenting.

Your explanation with pugs losing to pre-mades is also more so a reason why pre-mades shouldn’t be tossed against solo queue random teams. Did it ever occur to you that if a silver scrub is holding you back from where you -think- you really belong in, platinum maybe you don’t belong in platinum? Just food for thought.

Also the suggestion was pure solo for one queue option, and the other option queue has improved pip gain and you can queue with any number of players in a party, including solo just so you can fill the case of 4 man needing 1, or 2 duos needing 1. solo queuers shouldn’t be farm material for pre-mades.

Having a pure solo queue option(its own queue) will put everyone on a even playing ground and good players will organically rise to where they belong,

Reth Grimrazor – Charr Guardian – [GWB]Grim Warband – Tarnished Coast
Redgen Furyblaze – Charr Guardian – [SHD]Shade Warband – Tarnished Coast
Lerious Warhowl – Charr Warrior – [SHD] Shade Warband – Tarnished Coast

(edited by Lucentfir.7430)

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Posted by: zinkz.7045

zinkz.7045

Actually game mode didn’t die until it was pure solo queue so…….yeah.

Not really, the actual PvP population for the most part left the game long ago, which is why they have been propping it up with bribes to PvE/WvW for a long time, the bribes simply ran out, mixed with the continuing decline of the game (especially WvW which used to supply a lot of players that did PvP as their secondary thing) and the negative effect HoT had on combat outside PvE.

The fact that when they went to solo/duo they had to go with that alone because the population couldn’t support that and a team queue or that that the weekly ESL tournaments died back when we had team queue, should be clues that the population was already on death’s door.

(edited by zinkz.7045)

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Posted by: sephiroth.4217

sephiroth.4217

Lol this is just piling on at this point. The proof is in the pudding even the people that still defend the decision have to admit that the spvp playing population has plummeted from season 4 to now.

Do you have any proof or numbers to back up that claim?

Anet has stated repeatedly that the vast majority of PvP players plays solo. You sure see how this contradicts your argument.

`Then it shouldn’t be hard for you to find us a quote no?

You don’t need data charts or numbers to see that the game population plummeted in PvP either, you only need to play the game to see for yourself.

I mostly play for the new Free-For-All arena in PvP lobby.
….. And Elementalist.

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Posted by: Nickzor.2453

Nickzor.2453

The “Duo” part of the solo duo queue was the the issue. It only takes 2 skilled players with voice coms and synergy to carry as a result it nullified what the playerbase who asked for solo queue wanted.

That being said its actual effect on the state of PVP was minimal. The game is bleeding out due to the lack of the top players. Despite popular belief the highest end of the playerbase is a very important part of the community. This is especially true in a game like this with a small community in comparison to PVP titles.

Simply put…. ANET’s poor communication knocked down the last pillar of support the game mode had. Until a new support pillar is added changing the amount of people who can queue together will have zero effect.

This is why season 5 had a healthy playerbase even though many people weren’t happy with the queue changes in one way or another but season 6 was a ghost town with no changes to the actual system. Many ESL teams disbanded and other players stated they were either going on hiatus (as a solo player or with their team) due to ANET’s lack of transparency, or simply leaving the game all together.

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Posted by: Shaogin.2679

Shaogin.2679

The “Duo” part of the solo duo queue was the the issue. It only takes 2 skilled players with voice coms and synergy to carry as a result it nullified what the playerbase who asked for solo queue wanted.

That being said its actual effect on the state of PVP was minimal. The game is bleeding out due to the lack of the top players. Despite popular belief the highest end of the playerbase is a very important part of the community. This is especially true in a game like this with a small community in comparison to PVP titles.

Simply put…. ANET’s poor communication knocked down the last pillar of support the game mode had. Until a new support pillar is added changing the amount of people who can queue together will have zero effect.

This is why season 5 had a healthy playerbase even though many people weren’t happy with the queue changes in one way or another but season 6 was a ghost town with no changes to the actual system. Many ESL teams disbanded and other players stated they were either going on hiatus (as a solo player or with their team) due to ANET’s lack of transparency, or simply leaving the game all together.

ESL players leaving didn’t kill the population. The only reason season 5 still had a healthy population was because of the insanely easy rewards. Once the rewards were gone, we were back to the old system with the main difference being the lack of team queue, and surprise surprise, the season was dead as hell.

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