Guild Wars 2

This new point system. Player X can beat the top team in the game 100 times, finish 100-0 and have a maximum of 300 points. Player Y can play randoms 10000 times, lose half and finish with something around 5k-7.5k points… Umm >?? Not actually representative of top players
unless i am mistaken, the leaderboard on the 16th will be based simply on who has more points??

I represent an extremely small portion of pvp players. I checked my data over the past 10months, I’ve gone 600 wins and about 40 loses, maintaining r1-10 on team leaderboards (aka only playing good players when they are available) …
When you say it is more skill or whatever to have closer games??? That makes no since, my team is always gonna face roll everyone, even the 2nd and 3rd best team in the game get 500-20 by Abjured/Absurd Pug. This ladder rewards the top players in PvP. It makes no since for someone who loses half of their games “in a close fashion” to be near someone who wins basically all the games regardless of opponent. I understand that you want players who play more to be rewarded, but in this new system, someone who wins half their games, but plays 5000 games will do better than someone who plays 2000 games and wins literally every single one. That is ridiculous. PvP leaderboards is turned into a PvE grandest where i have to kill these players that resemble medium golems in order to stay on top of leaderboards….

TLDR Don’t make most games = Top, and a .5 w/l vs a .9 w/s lol.. you guys said the .5 was better because he was LOSING closer…. thats ridiculous, the .9 is face rolling… BECAUSE HE IS BETTER

Being active is a valid component of any ladder. Under the old system all one had to do was avoid other top teams and win one “easy” match every now and then to reset ladder decay.

It seems the new system can only lead to more activity and more “top teams” facing off against each, improving competition…but I suspect match dodging will still occur.

I’m curious to see how this plays out. He has a point, though. If we assume that you are actually decent at the top of the ladder, then you may never lose a match more more than 400-500. Thus, you would never lose points.

With the all GW1 ELO system, you would tend to lose more points than you would win. Thus, it was very hard to stay at the top of the ladder (the only flaw being that you can stop playing at rank 1 and not drop).

I’d argue it’s more reasonable to make the resolution of points higher. More point gain for winning and more point loss for losing. But once again, we’ll have to wait and see.

I’m trying to figure out how one of the worst players i’ve had the misfortune of playing with and against multiple times is in the #1 spot on leaderboards

Yep, quite simply, 500-0ing people repeatedly 60 times in a row sadly is about as slow as molasses at recognizing that your MMR needs to be… higher. Much higher.

The strongest teams I doubt will ever be reflected at the top MMR because they play the game assuming it won’t be fun 500-0ing and spawn camping some poor noobs for their entire playtime.

I am a PvE player but I do enjoy tPvP occassionally. So coming from the dungeon forum, where we haven’t seen a Developer post in quite a while, it is super refreshing seeing your interaction with the community! These explanations are very helpful and will hopefully show more players that the new ladder is not just about grinding, since that’s the current vibe in this subforum. Anyhow, just wanted to say thanks for taking the time to reply!

Chaith.8256:

Yep, quite simply, 500-0ing people repeatedly 60 times in a row sadly is about as slow as molasses at recognizing that your MMR needs to be… higher. Much higher.

The strongest teams I doubt will ever be reflected at the top MMR because they play the game assuming it won’t be fun 500-0ing and spawn camping some poor noobs for their entire playtime.

You are right. Brackets needed. One bracket cannot hold the range of skill that is possible with the GW2 game mechanics.

At the moment, leaderboard has an almost perfect correlation with # of wins and #of games played. # of Losses play an insignificant part in this calculation.

This is stupid and limits success to those who play all day.

That’s why we are having a test season, to fix all of this!

I agree with Aaron that the leaderboard in its current state will place worse players who play more higher than players who are better but play less, and thus the leaderboard will not represent who the best players in the game are. As someone said yesterday, ESL and other competitions will still be the only reliable representation of who some of the best players in the game are.

The old team queue leaderboards generally had the best players at the top. It wasn’t perfect, but it was definitely more representative of who the best players were than now.

Rewarding playing more rather than playing well is not the way a leaderboard should work, imo. Then the leaderboard is not about skill, but grind.

You either have to have brackets, or in-game handicaps like increasing the points-per-tick for the weak team…if you are going to have teams of different skills play against each other.

That’s why sports leagues like golf or bowling have handicap systems to make the awards go to the “most improved team”, not the absolute most skilled team.

Ingame handicaps? Last I checked my opponents are not kittened, they are just bad… they don’t need a handicap they need to get better, if i am 500-0ing, its because my team is better… Last I checked the whole point of these seasons was to reward playing as a team

If anyone top player would take the leaderboard serious it would be a huge +1 point farm and you´d have to play as much as possible in the current system.

Unfortunately I don´t see any reward that would encourage us to play in this ladder system.

It is true that the old leaderboard was probably more representative for player skill since it wasn´t based on farming.

Blackjack.5621:

If anyone top player would take the leaderboard serious it would be a huge +1 point farm and you´d have to play as much as possible in the current system.

Unfortunately I don´t see any reward that would encourage us to play in this ladder system.

It is true that the old leaderboard was probably more representative for player skill since it wasn´t based on farming.

Have to agree with you. I don’t have the motivation to farm baddies 24/7 until I can get decent matches again. Guess teamq will be even more dead than it was before.

Blackjack.5621:

Unfortunately I don´t see any reward that would encourage us to play in this ladder system.

Lamassss and moar lamas

rofl

Justin ODell.9517:

Aaron.2413:

TLDR Don’t make most games = Top, and a .5 w/l vs a .9 w/s lol.. you guys said the .5 was better because he was LOSING closer…. thats ridiculous, the .9 is face rolling… BECAUSE HE IS BETTER

Not necessarily true. The matchmaking could be flawed for any number of reasons. E.g. they tanked their MMR before the start of the season to get easy wins. We are underplaying the benefit of queuing as a group. They only play late at night when matchmaking quality is lower.

If we had completely random matching W/L might mean something, but as long as we filter by rating it’s tainted by selection bias.

If people are “facerolling or 500-0ing” others then just give them an insane MMR increase so that they play the best possible groups playing. If they continue to win then by all means they have earned the rank.

Why are you underplaying group play? I thought the ladders and seasons update was supposed to encourage team play not discourage it…

At this point I would rather have just old team Q and solo Q back…

Solo Q players should not be rank one with a .53 W/L ratio…. Solo Qers should never be rank 1… unless they are actually winning basically every single one of their games…. If you want a solo q player to be on leaderboards then make solo Q leaderboards and game mode seperate.

If anything playing as a group should grant you more points per win, promoting players to team up and improve rather than purposely Solo Q to abuse the way the new leaderboards work…

I have no doubt that I could Solo Q and carry my teams 70% of the time, however why should I when I can team q and win 100% of the time?? I understand that you want solo Qers to get rewarded, but a leaderboard that is supposed to rank every player in the game, should have the best players at the top.
I recognize that there is some skill required in Solo Q but its more mental stamina than anything. I would love to have a super competitive solo Q like they have in other games. However there are not enough good players to make this happen…. I cant try extremely hard and work with a team that has players that are utterly clueless and wearing starter armor…

TLDR: Either Seperate Team Q and Solo Q, or STOP favoring Solo Q for leaderboard rank points, and STOP discouraging people from playing as a team

Backpack.8517:

If people are “facerolling or 500-0ing” others then just give them an insane MMR increase so that they play the best possible groups playing. If they continue to win then by all means they have earned the rank.

Why are you underplaying group play? I thought the ladders and seasons update was supposed to encourage team play not discourage it…

Yep.

We need insane MMR increases after 500-0ing for 20 matches in a row. Right now, to be accurately represented, top players need to 500-0 for … 100 matches before they are ranked as high as the people rapid fire losing 90 games and winning maybe 80.

No matter how bad you are, if you play twice as many games as anyone else, you are the top guild wars 2 player according to the leaderboards. All hail Marvin, Oeggs & Kirito as our new ladder overlords.

Just for an example i was 460-193 before I went “esports” after that I went 600-60 in team q. leaving me at 1030-250. All of my wins were vs teams with lower MMRs because my team/group would consist of players ranked 1-10 on the leaderboard. Therefore I would have 1030 points. All of my loses would be 0 because they would at the very least be close games vs other highly rated teams. Leaving my point total at approx 1030 points. (Playing 1-5 games per day)

ghaleon.2861 a Solo Q player had this record
assuming equal matchmaking and close games, he would have around 5000 points……

Wins 5849
Loses 5449

Should he be rank 1, and I be 95%?? Like really??

glock.6590:

The bragging will start about how good they are on the ladder when they just played a lot of games. You should just delete it and restart updating the old leaderboard. Just fix the decay . Don’t allow people to afk for months and then get rank 1 on the ladder.

And so many of us solo Q in ranked which gives premades a free win. At least in team Q there was way less solo Q’ers. Most people have an inflated win rate atm if they only played with premade.

Its not even about player skill its literally farming people at a disadvantage.

So winning 10-15 games straight and placing top ranked (old system) is more fair than actually having to grind to see your effective skill level? No more teams that play once a week at low peek times on the weekday against baddies… You’re practically forced to play more games against high rated teams to earn your max points per game.

A person with a higher average of points earned per game Should be ranked higher, than a person with a lower average rank points earned per game. How is this not more fair?

Saiyan.1704:

glock.6590:

The bragging will start about how good they are on the ladder when they just played a lot of games. You should just delete it and restart updating the old leaderboard. Just fix the decay . Don’t allow people to afk for months and then get rank 1 on the ladder.

And so many of us solo Q in ranked which gives premades a free win. At least in team Q there was way less solo Q’ers. Most people have an inflated win rate atm if they only played with premade.

Its not even about player skill its literally farming people at a disadvantage.

So winning 10-15 games straight and placing top ranked (old system) is more fair than actually having to grind to see your effective skill level? No more teams that play once a week at low peek times on the weekday against baddies… You’re practically forced to play more games against high rated teams to earn your max 5 points per game.

A person with a higher average of points earned per game Should be ranked higher, than a person with a lower average rank points earned per game. How is this not more fair?

All the games I play are at PRIME TIME, playing the highest MMR players available…. should I really be punished LOL… Im playing roughly 15 games a week now… all at prime time, 500-0ing every single one….

Someone who Qs 100 times a week and wins half their games SHOULD NOT BE HIGHER OR EVEN CLOSE to my MMR or my leaderboard rank…

You make it sould like I am Q dodging and scared to play good players…. I am team quing with the most competitive teams in the game… SURE I would love to play a similarly skilled team… Fact is: there are none.. Why should I then get punished for not having a worthy adversary??

Saiyan.1704:

glock.6590:

The bragging will start about how good they are on the ladder when they just played a lot of games. You should just delete it and restart updating the old leaderboard. Just fix the decay . Don’t allow people to afk for months and then get rank 1 on the ladder.

And so many of us solo Q in ranked which gives premades a free win. At least in team Q there was way less solo Q’ers. Most people have an inflated win rate atm if they only played with premade.

Its not even about player skill its literally farming people at a disadvantage.

So winning 10-15 games straight and placing top ranked (old system) is more fair than actually having to grind to see your effective skill level? No more teams that play once a week at low peek times on the weekday against baddies… You’re practically forced to play more games against high rated teams to earn your max 5 points per game.

A person with a higher average of points earned per game Should be ranked higher, than a person with a lower average rank points earned per game. How is this not more fair?

If my group played him, he would get the same amount of points as I would, IF HE LOST BY 200…..

What if consecutive win streaks just temporarily attracted higher and higher MMR opponents? This way the people 500-0ing teams with much higher MMR will actually get decent MMR gains….? Also the cap of 3 MMR gain per game might have to be adjusted up, too.

For what I’m suggesting, if a player or team was on a streak and getting higher and higher MMR opponents, but then hit a wall, the temporary attracting of opponents with higher MMR would cease. That player may then be a lot closer to where he should actually be on the ladder.

The ladder needs to be adjusted until it reasonably and accurately reflects the strongest to weakest players in descending order

Backpack.8517:

Saiyan.1704:

glock.6590:

The bragging will start about how good they are on the ladder when they just played a lot of games. You should just delete it and restart updating the old leaderboard. Just fix the decay . Don’t allow people to afk for months and then get rank 1 on the ladder.

And so many of us solo Q in ranked which gives premades a free win. At least in team Q there was way less solo Q’ers. Most people have an inflated win rate atm if they only played with premade.

Its not even about player skill its literally farming people at a disadvantage.

So winning 10-15 games straight and placing top ranked (old system) is more fair than actually having to grind to see your effective skill level? No more teams that play once a week at low peek times on the weekday against baddies… You’re practically forced to play more games against high rated teams to earn your max 5 points per game.

A person with a higher average of points earned per game Should be ranked higher, than a person with a lower average rank points earned per game. How is this not more fair?

All the games I play are at PRIME TIME, playing the highest MMR players available…. should I really be punished LOL… Im playing roughly 15 games a week now… all at prime time, 500-0ing every single one….

Someone who Qs 100 times a week and wins half their games SHOULD NOT BE HIGHER OR EVEN CLOSE to my MMR or my leaderboard rank…

You make it sould like I am Q dodging and scared to play good players…. I am team quing with the most competitive teams in the game… SURE I would love to play a similarly skilled team… Fact is: there are none.. Why should I then get punished for not having a worthy adversary??

+1,

There will prolly be 0 competition in teamq now. I really don’t see a reason why I shouldn’t rather spend the one our two hours when everybody from my team is online with duels or scrims instead facing bad or mediocre players in teamq and not get any practice or good matches out of it.

This leaderbord change might be cool for people who solo or duoq but it’s terrible for actual teams.

Aaron.2413:

Ingame handicaps? Last I checked my opponents are not kittened, they are just bad… they don’t need a handicap they need to get better, if i am 500-0ing, its because my team is better… Last I checked the whole point of these seasons was to reward playing as a team

You don’t understand why they invented handicaps and use them in leagues where there is a high variation in skill.

Sounds like there are about 50 players who should have insanely high MMRs who should only, EVER be allowed play each other in their teams.

That’s called “a bracket”.

Silentshoes.1805:

Sounds like there are about 50 players who should have insanely high MMRs who should only, EVER be allowed play each other in their teams.

That’s called “a bracket”.

Brackets would work if a" team" was considered as a single individual. Things wouldn’t be so complicated the way they are now. I like the rank system… for soloq.. but high rated teams should be able to register and play other high rated teams. Persons on a new team can average up their mmr to be part of that MMR bracket.

There’s a chance for an even Higher queue time when a team isn’t available for your division though… especially in the highest tier division.. not sure how that’s going to work. Unless there’s a pop up message to a team leader saying a certain team is on to queue, so you can then re-queue your team in Tpvp like regular. Other than that you’ll still be forced to play a team that’s a lower rank than you.

All honestly, it should have been this way from day one. 10 games determines your mmr. If you don’t beat a high rated team in a bracket, you move down a bracket. Otherwise move up. Until your MMR and Bracket/Rank is set.

Chaith.8256:

Backpack.8517:

If people are “facerolling or 500-0ing” others then just give them an insane MMR increase so that they play the best possible groups playing. If they continue to win then by all means they have earned the rank.

Why are you underplaying group play? I thought the ladders and seasons update was supposed to encourage team play not discourage it…

Yep.

We need insane MMR increases after 500-0ing for 20 matches in a row. Right now, to be accurately represented, top players need to 500-0 for … 100 matches before they are ranked as high as the people rapid fire losing 90 games and winning maybe 80.

No matter how bad you are, if you play twice as many games as anyone else, you are the top guild wars 2 player according to the leaderboards. All hail Marvin, Oeggs & Kirito as our new ladder overlords.

If this ladder is really gonna be based on time played…then yeah it’s gonna be a Pug Stomp. No competition, repetitive, and just boring. Which is the reason why I haven’t been playing during this test season, but if ladder is based on games then meh. My Ratio is 5000Wins to 2000ish Losses for Team Queue with Solo Queue it is being merged messing up the ratio. 1% drop, but still hard to get up with that amount of games played. Veteran players like Oeggs, Kirito, Myself, and others will be playing alot. (Maybe) But with Chaith said, time played = high leaderboard ranking. So anyone with a bad ratio will be up there if they play enough. There are people who can be up there, have potential and deserve it, but aren’t with the right people to form a team to be up there. I’m not on a team atm so I play with whoever, and have played with nearly majority to know their mechanics and knowledge, but if it’s just a PUG stomp for leaderboards with little incentive then it’s just boring. I have played during PRIME/OffHours, and sure we run into like Abjured/Absurd Pugs (Current), PZ/Qt (QP Era), OutplayedByChildren/GoodFights/APeX/FML (Back Then) who stomp unorganized/not as strong teams, get 500-50’d, but it’s still more fun(Not really, but you’ll probably learn from mistakes) than 500-0ing over and over. The problem is the player base is too low for more teams, maybe if EU got merged, but Ping/Lag issues so idk. Also not enough incentives/rewards for a ladder as a TEAM rather than individuals. Rewarding Llamas that most people have…it needs more.

solution.

New Score=Points*(2*wins/games played)

I would assume that by manually boosting old top 100 or something MMR with a artifical but high enough number would quickly ease this issue.

On the other hand, I as sub medicore player consider commitment (grind) to be quite relevant metrix for a ladder but that propably shouldnt be dominating one.

It really does just seem like a game spam the more I watch it. The first person has 100 points now, while the second is only at 63. Nobody can catch him because it seems he plays 18 hours a day.

I’m all for making leaderboard reward the more active players, but this is a bit ridiculous. However, like I said before, this will only be a test season, so hopefully it’ll all gets fixed when you implement the real thing.

what would happen if the win / lose is not shown in the leaderboard, but the points only?

I think the point of the leader board system is to be grind to keep people striving for something.

The idea is likely based on any other grind. So basically players play more often and stay longer. That’s probably the hope at least

If this ends up happening then the hope would be that more good players would start developing, and the good players will realize that the leader boards mean nothing, because all the best players are participating in tournaments.

Shockwave.1230
I think the point of the leader board system is to be grind to keep people striving for something.
The idea is likely based on any other grind. So basically players play more often and stay longer. That’s probably the hope at least
If this ends up happening then the hope would be that more good players would start developing, and the good players will realize that the leader boards mean nothing, because all the best players are participating in tournaments.
——————————————————

+1 this

With how the leaderboards are looking now it definitely does look like a grind to win type situation and thus will drop me even more then my less active play did before. At least before I stayed in the top 90% between 90 and 98% and was able to break the top 1000 a couple times. Now I foresee it with me maybe being able to make the top 75% if they get a lot of super active players since it is now points gained not how well you play as it looks.

Farm Wars 2 here we go…pve heroes are gonna be happy i suppose…

it is just now total grind. look at top 1 guy and his previous leaderboard’s rank and number of matchs done

i don’t even want to know who’s on top….and with this system ppl are probably gonna give even less kittens to ladders than before…pretty much like old qpnts ladder after they started giving points to losers too…

dead competitive pvp is dead…this is gonna be more likely dungeon farming than actual pvp, just keep going…if you suck don’t worry, just que more and you’ll get up anyway

such esports

I don’t get it my frands! Why isn’t your leaderboard rank related to your MMR! Whoever has the highest MMR should have the highest leaderboard rank! That seems like it would eliminate all problems! Is there something I’m not seeing!

just rip 5vs5 pvp leaderboard and make dueling arena and give previous mmr based leaderboard of it to estimate real skilled players

Chaith, the leader board points aren’t the same thing as MMR.

MMR is a different metric we know little about, we do know it is being tracked overall and per player profession.

I don’t get it

Top players in the game queue with each other claim there is no competition and want to be high on the leader boards?

Why do you guys not actually go for a challenge and stop grouping up and stomping everyone? There are literally about 20 elite players in NA and they all play with each other then complain there is no competition. WTF!?

The ladder is perfectly fine how it is – we already know who the top players in the game are we do not need you on the leader boards too. Go play in china win tournaments or go play in the weeklies

Leader boards are for casuals and something to attain for lesser skilled players – it promotes participation which is healthy for the game
You want a real leader board!? We need brackets!
You want brackets? We need about 10,000 new players how the hell are we going to get those type of numbers if you idiots keep on teaming up with each other stomping everyone and not allowing anyone else in the leader boards!?

Why are Leaderboards hidden in community tab ?
They should be in the open, so people can find them easily.

Narkodx.1472:

I don’t get it

Leader boards are for casuals

I would say Leaderboards are for leading players. Nobody cares who is rising out of the 45% percentile and breaking into the top 1000. Not even casuals ..

You seem to think it’s hypocrisy that players strive to be the best and play with players who are their equal?

Dude, what are you even saying? That it’s the top players fault there is little competition? What are they to do, just attempt to carry someone who picked up the collector’s edition of GW2 yesterday to bring their team down so there’s more close matches? Lmao.

Also you pretty much blame the lack of players in PvP because top 20 players are stomping them all. I will drop a gem of knowledge for you dude, it is sorely needed, none of the top 20 players like to pub stomp. They’re not often stomping everyone else in ranked queue, ruining the game for everyone . You’ve said it yourself, they actually enjoy close matches and prefer to play amongst other competitive people rather than people who play for fun, dailies, 30silver, or reward tracks.

Leaderboards are for leading players? wtf does that mean? Leader boards are for people like backpack to flex his kitten?

Leader boards ARE for casuals – They are the ones who actually want the llamas and participate

You and your buddies already win money wtf you want a leader board for!?

It IS partially your fault there is no competition instead of 4 elite teams consisting of 20 elite players just imagine there were 20 teams with 1 elite player each – why do that when we can all team up and win money in china though right?!

Only one thing will bring more players that is rewards for active participation in leader boards throughout all skill levels! Not simply rewarding the 20 players who group up and stomp everyone with 70+ winning percentage

You guys need to get a grip – Leader boards are not about rewarding you guys and growing your kitten it is creating incentives for the regular players to get better thus increasing participation and making the China events better for the pros like you! Instead of having a stream with 300 viewers all the time you might get a stream with an actual significant amount of viewers

What is more important!?

The best of the best get llamas and we only care about super leet win %?

Some casual players get more invested into PvP because they see progress on the leader board and one day become elite players/form teams/participate in weeklies etc etc

Which system caters to this?

Narkodx.1472:

Leaderboards are for leading players? wtf does that mean? Leader boards are for people like backpack to flex his kitten?

Leader boards ARE for casuals – They are the ones who actually want the llamas and participate

You and your buddies already win money wtf you want a leader board for!?

It IS partially your fault there is no competition instead of 4 elite teams consisting of 20 elite players just imagine there were 20 teams with 1 elite player each – why do that when we can all team up and win money in china though right?!

Only one thing will bring more players that is active rewards for participation in leader boards throughout all levels! Not simply rewarding the 20 players who group up and stomp everyone.

You guys need to get a grip – Leader boards are not about rewarding you guys and growing your kitten it is creating incentives for the regular players to get better thus increasing participation and making the China events better for the pros like you! Instead of having a stream with 300 viewers all the time you might get a stream with an actual significant amount of viewers

Guy, you make no sense. Saying the top players ARE partially at fault because they play with each other, as opposed to rationing out one top player per team to make 20 teams? Lmao. I think you need to get a grip if you fault someone for not artificially creating competition by pulling people in who can’t normally compete at that level.

Also how do you figure that anyone is asking for exclusive rewards for the top 20? Who even knows anything about ladder rewards..?

It’s just a list of names, man. Who cares about the rewards. In this list of names, I firmly believe that this list should naturally gravitate towards showing in descending order: who the strongest players are – who uses the best strategies, has the best communication and teamwork, and mechanical skill.

Reward everyone on the dang list equally. Who cares. Make the list actually be meaningful – that’s how a small measure of prestige is created, and increased competition, and so forth.

Seeing the #1 guy on the ladder and being like: “Sweet, free win.” Now that’s some prestigious ladders. Get me sum-o-dat.

Chaith,

It’s fine that you all group up. But the matcher needs to only match you with another team close to your average MMR. And if none of the other elites are playing at the moment, then there is no match available. That’s perfectly fair. That’s a reality of being the best.

That’s essentially putting you in a Super Platinum Bracket.

And that is fair to all players.

Silentshoes.1805:

Chaith,

It’s fine that you all group up. But the matcher needs to only match you with another team close to your average MMR. And if none of the other elites are playing at the moment, then there is no match available. That’s perfectly fair. That’s a reality of being the best.

That’s essentially putting you in a Super Platinum Bracket.

And that is fair to all players.

There’s only so much harm to the game’s enjoyment 20 people can do who rarely even do ranked queue.

Chaith.8256:

Silentshoes.1805:

Chaith,

It’s fine that you all group up. But the matcher needs to only match you with another team close to your average MMR. And if none of the other elites are playing at the moment, then there is no match available. That’s perfectly fair. That’s a reality of being the best.

That’s essentially putting you in a Super Platinum Bracket.

And that is fair to all players.

There’s only so much harm to the game’s enjoyment 20 people can do who rarely even do ranked queue.

I think there are more than 20 that can dominate the average players. There is a LOT to this game and it takes a while to learn.