Guild Wars 2

So I went and had a read of that QQ timewarp thread. It was a sad sorry thing, and I have to tell you, I saw a lot of talk of OP and “cheap”, yada yada yada. I hadn’t seen such a concentrated group of scrubs in a long time, but I’m also not surprised.

So let’s talk tactics. What you QQ’rs need is to break down what’s going on inside a timewarp, and come up with some actual valid counters to it. I’m not the master of all PvP combat, but a couple things are so stupidly obvious I shouldn’t have even needed to come here to say so.

Yes, running away is a valid tactic, like it or not. But let’s move beyond that.

Confusion: You can expect within a TW for your enemy to spam his skills. In fact he’ll be firing them off so quickly he probably won’t even stop to check what he’s doing. If he is, he might have rinsed through them so quickly it’ll be to late. Confusion will chop a person in half, even in sPvP. Look into it. It’s amazing.

Retaliation: Getting smashed by TW? Well, so can your enemy. Retaliation exists to punish your enemy for trying to punish you.

Got confusion AND retaliation? Well guess what, TW is as much a problem as it is a solution. Your class/group loosing against a TW using mes/team? Build a better class. The options are there.

More ideas? I know they’re out there.

All that is too hard for the average player, better to just remove all the skills and everybody run around auto attacking each other.

The psychology of an enemy within g time warp field is to press their advantage. For ranged users this means this will mean their projectiles will be going off like crazy. Reflection becomes your best friend in this moment as 100% of all those attacks will be returning to him. You should EXPECT this. TW is a tell. You know exactly what your enemy is going to do when it appears. So this means you have the advantage, so long as you prepare for it.
Either turn it against him, or shut him down during the time. Simple.

Necro can counter TW like no tomorrow. If I see timewarp, use plague and run into TP. I have traited it so every time I blind some1, he gets chilled as well. So, TP? Plague>blind and chilled to the kitten xD

Thank you for this… Much better than advice and constructive then the constant battle of we need to change this skill or that skill.

pretty sure the argument was in regards to the fact that the strength of the skill makes the mesmer a requirement in competitive teams. not so much about dying to or countering it.

on a positive note, I hear public eduction might get some better funding so all you forum lurkers with the poor reading and comprehension skills will be getting a buff. gratz!

Ross Biddle.2367:

So I went and had a read of that QQ timewarp thread. It was a sad sorry thing, and I have to tell you, I saw a lot of talk of OP and “cheap”, yada yada yada. I hadn’t seen such a concentrated group of scrubs in a long time, but I’m also not surprised.

So let’s talk tactics. What you QQ’rs need is to break down what’s going on inside a timewarp, and come up with some actual valid counters to it. I’m not the master of all PvP combat, but a couple things are so stupidly obvious I shouldn’t have even needed to come here to say so.

Yes, running away is a valid tactic, like it or not. But let’s move beyond that.

Confusion: You can expect within a TW for your enemy to spam his skills. In fact he’ll be firing them off so quickly he probably won’t even stop to check what he’s doing. If he is, he might have rinsed through them so quickly it’ll be to late. Confusion will chop a person in half, even in sPvP. Look into it. It’s amazing.

Retaliation: Getting smashed by TW? Well, so can your enemy. Retaliation exists to punish your enemy for trying to punish you.

Got confusion AND retaliation? Well guess what, TW is as much a problem as it is a solution. Your class/group loosing against a TW using mes/team? Build a better class. The options are there.

More ideas? I know they’re out there.

Interesting, so the counter to time warp is confusion and retaliation. I wonder what class is best suited to provide both confusion and retaliation?

Sounds like a job for a mesmer.

Thorondir.9138:

Ross Biddle.2367:

So I went and had a read of that QQ timewarp thread. It was a sad sorry thing, and I have to tell you, I saw a lot of talk of OP and “cheap”, yada yada yada. I hadn’t seen such a concentrated group of scrubs in a long time, but I’m also not surprised.

So let’s talk tactics. What you QQ’rs need is to break down what’s going on inside a timewarp, and come up with some actual valid counters to it. I’m not the master of all PvP combat, but a couple things are so stupidly obvious I shouldn’t have even needed to come here to say so.

Yes, running away is a valid tactic, like it or not. But let’s move beyond that.

Confusion: You can expect within a TW for your enemy to spam his skills. In fact he’ll be firing them off so quickly he probably won’t even stop to check what he’s doing. If he is, he might have rinsed through them so quickly it’ll be to late. Confusion will chop a person in half, even in sPvP. Look into it. It’s amazing.

Retaliation: Getting smashed by TW? Well, so can your enemy. Retaliation exists to punish your enemy for trying to punish you.

Got confusion AND retaliation? Well guess what, TW is as much a problem as it is a solution. Your class/group loosing against a TW using mes/team? Build a better class. The options are there.

More ideas? I know they’re out there.

Interesting, so the counter to time warp is confusion and retaliation. I wonder what class is best suited to provide both confusion and retaliation?

Sounds like a job for a mesmer.

You forgot guardian

Plus it takes time to stack a good amount of confusion even for mesmers so the quickness would’ve done their damage already. Or if you mean chaos storm.

A lot of other classes have retaliation as well… Confusion is mesmer specific for the most part (kind of like poison/fear/weakness/etc are available to almost every necro build.

Like haccks already said, that discussion was not about how TW is uncounterable, but how it, along with portal, makes mesmer a mandatory option in any team comp, which just kills customization and experimentation. Yes, there are other professions who can defend back point pretty well, but why would you take those if mesmer does is better than them, and he can basically be helping his team at the same time. There were quite good suggestions of making portal an elite skill. That would solve the problem.

Regarding this topic, retaliation, confusion, blinding, aoe cc and reflection are all quite good counters for something like that. But other team won’t just be standing there either. They can also use aoe CC to prevent that. Or blinding to prevent being CCed, along with stability. There is quite a large number of things they can do to ensure they melt your face down in those 10 seconds.

Mesmer could pop Null Field at the same time, removing that confusion, but at the same time removing your retaliation, stability, and whatnot. Their necro could also use staff #4, and so on.

Interesting, so the counter to time warp is confusion and retaliation. I wonder what class is best suited to provide both confusion and retaliation?

Sounds like a job for a mesmer.

[/quote]

Correct. And there’s nothing wrong with that.

There’s also an amazing Ele bunker build out there that’d do as an effective job.

hackks.3687:

pretty sure the argument was in regards to the fact that the strength of the skill makes the mesmer a requirement in competitive teams. not so much about dying to or countering it.

on a positive note, I hear public eduction might get some better funding so all you forum lurkers with the poor reading and comprehension skills will be getting a buff. gratz!

This right here. While time warp on its own is probably a bit too strong (I think a duration nerf and slight decrease in the size would got a long way) the biggest issue is having skills in the game which make it a near necessity to have a player of that class using that skill to be able to compete. I believe it is a sign of poor game design.

This is a class based game so obviously different classes should have different tools to accomplish their jobs but they should be somewhat similar to one another such that you can use multiple classes for the same roll. Currently no class is able to provide the massive team support that a mesmer can provide while having as much liberty as a mesmer has to leave the back point open.

You forgot guardian

Plus it takes time to stack a good amount of confusion even for mesmers so the quickness would’ve done their damage already. Or if you mean chaos storm.[/quote]

At least 8 stacks of aoe confusion in a few seconds from a shattering mesmer. Not a lot of time.

Remember, this is all about playing to win. If TW is the tactic of the month, then it’s simply finding a tactic to counter it. When you know something is coming it’s very easy to overcome it. It’s the art of war. Prepare, and strike at the right moment.

Krilce.7864:

Like haccks already said, that discussion was not about how TW is uncounterable, but how it, along with portal, makes mesmer a mandatory option in any team comp, which just kills customization and experimentation. Yes, there are other professions who can defend back point pretty well, but why would you take those if mesmer does is better than them, and he can basically be helping his team at the same time. There were quite good suggestions of making portal an elite skill. That would solve the problem.

Regarding this topic, retaliation, confusion, blinding, aoe cc and reflection are all quite good counters for something like that. But other team won’t just be standing there either. They can also use aoe CC to prevent that. Or blinding to prevent being CCed, along with stability. There is quite a large number of things they can do to ensure they melt your face down in those 10 seconds.

Mesmer could pop Null Field at the same time, removing that confusion, but at the same time removing your retaliation, stability, and whatnot. Their necro could also use staff #4, and so on.

That a class is “mandatory” for success is not a valid argument. I also see no evidence to support the idea that experimentation and customization are put to death. This sounds like so much scrub talk. There will always be “best” builds and “best” tactics, but time will tell that these will actually be varied and changing. You should never fault a player or team for using what works, and what is believed to be the “best” approach.

You’re right that the enemy team wont be just standing there. Of course they’ll have their CC’s etc ready. It goes without saying that every side is trying to melt the other ones face. Not being rude but this isn’t really telling us anything. The question remains: What can be done to take advantage of an enemies TW? Is it really just a big win button? Or are there valid counters out there that people are not yet aware of?

Your null field comment is the most constructive. Yes, a mesmer could use this if they’ve slotted it, and players should be aware of that. So what should be done about this? Well plenty. More than I’ go into. An obvious thing is that null field is a field. It cant cover everywhere. Perhaps it can go over the capture point, but if you’re not in the capture point for its duration the mesmer has to make a choice. Does he put it on himself to remove his conditions, or does he put it on his enemy to remove his boons? Can his null field cover all of his enemies? What if they’re split on either side of him, his TW, and his friends? This is not a win button combo.

More TW user psychology.

The player immediately thinks to move himself into the field. He’ll want to stay in their even if it might cost him a little. This can be used to your advantage if you’re anticipating it.

AoE is the obvious thing. It forces the TW user to do one of two things. Soak up the damage so he can continue to make use of the TW, or force him out of the area removing the effectiveness all altogether. All you have to do is have your AoE ready for when the time comes. That will mean patience, and discipline. If TW is an assured thing as the forums seem to be saying it is, you won’t be waiting long.

Ah! Stop telling people how to counter it!

Better they learn how to counter it than them convince anet to nerf one of our useful dungeon elites into THE GROUND!

I am not faulting players for using professions that work better than others. I’m pointing finger at Anet for making some professions offer more in quite a lot of fields than others. Mesmers and Guardians are pretty much a must have, and that’s what I see as a problem.

Also, null field was just one example of what you can use to ensure safe “melting”. Using it along with necros staff #4 would allow you to strip boons off your enemy, and at the same time remove conditions from your teammates.

Plague form is a good counter, but remember that you can always strip stability from it, and chain CC it to prevent blinding , if you got warrior in your team which purpose isn’t only to burst classes down. Hammer/mace+shiled warrior could do it. Or perhaps axe+mace/mace+shield(or warhorn, traited) could also do wonders, especially if your warhorn skills are available. They could easily remove confusion of your allies, and #5 would also debuff your opponents, preventing them from dodging and getting out of TW.

There are so many counter-counters, to call them like that, and attacking team would have an advantage at least in first few seconds that would take enemy team to react as a team, not only individually.

So i’m a ranger… I have no access to confusion or retaliation… Should i just run away?

Eurantien.4632:

So i’m a ranger… I have no access to confusion or retaliation… Should i just run away?

You should stop wasting time on the most broken class there is. Rangers have nothing. Wait for anet to make them less ****** and run another class.

us necros can counter practically everything single handed. No one complains, why? cause everyone thinks we are underpowered. I am no pro but I am pretty decent at pvp and i can tell u once this easy ro counter stuff gets nerfed, everyone will just find something new. Guess what, not every build you play will decimate everything in your path.

Your answer as a counter is for your opponents to be dumber than you…nicely done, you’ve fixed pvp.

trigger genious.6583:

us necros can counter practically everything single handed. No one complains, why? cause everyone thinks we are underpowered. I am no pro but I am pretty decent at pvp and i can tell u once this easy ro counter stuff gets nerfed, everyone will just find something new. Guess what, not every build you play will decimate everything in your path.

Necros are very underestimated. I played against a team that had two necros that together just rolled over everyone else. It was awesome to behold.

How much damage does 25 stacks of confusion do to someone using insta stomp? Maybe insta rez?

Nuka Cola.8520:

Eurantien.4632:

So i’m a ranger… I have no access to confusion or retaliation… Should i just run away?

You should stop wasting time on the most broken class there is. Rangers have nothing. Wait for anet to make them less ****** and run another class.

Lol what?

Ranger is so underrated. Ranger has some amazing builds that will shred any class in seconds, but standing in the middle of an enemy’s time warp is a terrible idea for anybody on your team. Rangers can use a ranged weapon instead and stand outside the field while laughing at the people inside.

Nobody should stay still next to a player that has just popped TW or any other source of quickness. TW has the disadvantage of being the only non-mobile source of quickness. When a thief, warrior, ranger etc. pops their quickness you will likely have them following you trying to take advantage of it’s uptime, when a mesmer pops TW: Don’t stand in the field.

You may say “But I have to I’m the point holder”. Most point holders can block, or invuln or both + protection long enough to negate the majority of all damage, that would be a good time to use those skills. If it’s you vs the world on the point then step off of it and let it go neutral then prevent them from capping it for themselves while you wait for backup.

Giving up your life and 5 points plus the point you were holding is not worth it if you can save yourself and hold the point neutral. All kinds of possibilities to counter and play around other strong skills and strategies.

If the problem is that TW supposedly makes Mesmer a requirement for any team, the answer is NOT to nerf Mesmers, but rather to BUFF all the other classes in some way. Apparently this needs to be said, and often.

Ross Biddle.2367:

So I went and had a read of that QQ timewarp thread. It was a sad sorry thing, and I have to tell you, I saw a lot of talk of OP and “cheap”, yada yada yada. I hadn’t seen such a concentrated group of scrubs in a long time, but I’m also not surprised.

So let’s talk tactics. What you QQ’rs need is to break down what’s going on inside a timewarp, and come up with some actual valid counters to it. I’m not the master of all PvP combat, but a couple things are so stupidly obvious I shouldn’t have even needed to come here to say so.

Yes, running away is a valid tactic, like it or not. But let’s move beyond that.

Confusion: You can expect within a TW for your enemy to spam his skills. In fact he’ll be firing them off so quickly he probably won’t even stop to check what he’s doing. If he is, he might have rinsed through them so quickly it’ll be to late. Confusion will chop a person in half, even in sPvP. Look into it. It’s amazing.

Retaliation: Getting smashed by TW? Well, so can your enemy. Retaliation exists to punish your enemy for trying to punish you.

Got confusion AND retaliation? Well guess what, TW is as much a problem as it is a solution. Your class/group loosing against a TW using mes/team? Build a better class. The options are there.

More ideas? I know they’re out there.

lets not talk about tactics with this move and more about tweaks change it so that it is not so mandatory in pvp and how it currently weaken’s any kind of variety on group composition, at the same time keep it viable and worth taking and using as a skill, all this banter about mesmers saying a nerf to time warp will destroy mesmers…..it wont the good players will adapt and still do great as a mesmer just as all the other classes that got nerfed over something thought it was the end of times. but most of this is common “dont nerf me bro” talk.

its not cheap its just to strong especially in a game mode thats capture the point and hold so I blame the game mode more than the ability its self.

sadly there is no counter to this ability a lot of good games I see while playing or watching streams mid point almost all the time is given to whoever can pull off timewarp first its not a boon and it cannot be removed.

but in a general sense I like to think pvp is still in its most earliest stages due to deadlines on gw2 when it came out so give it time and don’t sweat the small things change its apart of mmos

jportell.2197:

Better they learn how to counter it than them convince anet to nerf one of our useful dungeon elites into THE GROUND!

if this is a pve v.s pvp issue im sure that things will be kept different and they can make a split version of the skill. already assuming they wont do this before anything has changed and there has been no patches yet just sounds like “end of times” talk to me

Kline.9561:

jportell.2197:

Better they learn how to counter it than them convince anet to nerf one of our useful dungeon elites into THE GROUND!

if this is a pve v.s pvp issue im sure that things will be kept different and they can make a split version of the skill. already assuming they wont do this before anything has changed and there has been no patches yet just sounds like “end of times” talk to me

I certainly hope they split it… they’ve failed to on other occasions, which is what has me all jumpy. Nerfing TW would make boss fights just that much longer… ugh.

Golgathoth.3967:

Kline.9561:

jportell.2197:

Better they learn how to counter it than them convince anet to nerf one of our useful dungeon elites into THE GROUND!

if this is a pve v.s pvp issue im sure that things will be kept different and they can make a split version of the skill. already assuming they wont do this before anything has changed and there has been no patches yet just sounds like “end of times” talk to me

I certainly hope they split it… they’ve failed to on other occasions, which is what has me all jumpy. Nerfing TW would make boss fights just that much longer… ugh.

then i suggest to all players that if this does happen in the future make sure to let aNET know.