Guild Wars 2

Updated July 22. Thanks for the support!

Hi,

My name is Aeroxe and I am a r47 tpvper since beta who mostly mains a backstab thief but also plays necro and ele. I’m no means a pro (I’m really lackluster compared to the more well known thieves out there); however, I do think I have some knowledge and I thought I might as well share some helpful tips for the awesome community.

THIEF OVERVIEW:

The general stereotype of an assassin is one that quickly takes down a target and then gets the hell out of there. If you play a backstab thief, that is generally what you will be doing; laying low in stealth and taking down a single target as quickly as possible.

A backstab thief is a mechanically easy class to play and is great for newcomers, but, unlike common perception, takes some intelligence and game sense to play well.

BUILD:
10/30(side strikes, signets of power, executioner)/0/0/30(thrill of the crime, bountiful theft, sleight of hand)

Utilities: Hide in Shadows, Shadow Refuge, Shadowstep, Assassin’s Signet, Basilisk Venom

Scholar’s Runes

Beserker’s Amulet+Jewel

D/P: Sigil of Fire+Sigil of Force
Shortbow: Sigil of Fire

MINDSET/STRATEGY: (probs the most important part of the guide)

1) Your role as a thief is a team fighter. That’s right….a team fighter. You don’t like 1v1s. Bad thieves like 1v1s (unless you are running a farpoint assaulter or 1v1 build). Unless you get the jump on someone (your burst fully connects), you really shouldn’t be engaging in any 1v1s, esp. with the current meta of condis. In team fights, you should be taking out squishy targets as soon as your burst recharges and shortbowing the rest of the time.

2) Patience is key…wait for protection or stability or c’ds to end or the end of the dodge to strike. Do not be overambitious and know when to disengage (you cannot take down 2 people by yourself…most of the time).

COMBOS: (Basilisk Venom (dont use steal if you basilisk most of the time) and Assassin’s Signet beforehand)

1) Blackpowder+Heartseeker (in middle of animation use steal)+BS
The most well known combo. Use this when you are entering a team fight without shadow refuge or you are going into a fight with your teammate already engaged with just one other (they are having a 1v1). Shouldn’t be using this as much.

2)BS+steal in the middle of the animation (stealthed before hand…mostly from shadow refuge but also from heal)
The most important combo. Use this as much as possible and when engaging in a forced 1v1 or defending a node against one other. Positioning is most important here because if you aren’t faced toward your opponent your backstab will miss and you will be unstealthed.

AFTER COMBO:

1) Heartseeker spam
Do this when you know that it only takes one hit left.

2)Headshot->Heartseeker
Do this when your combo wasn’t really enough.

3)Shortbow
Do this when you are in a teamfight or low in health.

STOMPING/FINISH HIM/HER!:

Here are the special ways to stomp as a thief:

1) Blackpowder->Stomp
Use this as much as possible. Will protect your stomp from being interrupted by all projectile knockdowns/dazes/stuns.
2)Blackpowder->Stomp->Shadowstep away->Shadowstep back before stomp animation finishes
Not used so much due to needing the shadowstep utility available, but good if you really need to get that stomp down for your team and there are a ton of people coming at you.
3) Stomp->Cancel->Stomp->Shadowstep(sometimes) before animation finishes
Mes and ele.

With all stomping, one must decide whether to just kill the downed enemy or stomp. This decision really comes down to game sense and what your team is doing, but generally, you should just kill the downed enemy if they are glasscannon.

OTHER STUFF:

1) Timing “1” right after the “3” skill on d/p when it connects allows you to backstab and still have the shadowstep towards your foe.

2) Do not underestimate shortbow. You should be using the shortbow 70% of the time or you are probs playing thief wrong.

3) Inverting the camera above you (bird’s eye view) let’s your heartseeker a shorter distance, allowing you to get more heartseekers into the blackpowder smoke field.

4) Steal is also an escape if you find yourself in a bad situation. Use it when all utilities are on cooldown.

5) BACKstab. If you have to maneuver around your opponent after your stun to get to your opponent’s back….do it. Unless you are sure that a halfdamage backstab will finish him/her off, then go around.

6) Successful Heartseeking: Watch for your opponent to dodge. When he dodges, hit heartseeker. By the time your heartseeker hits, your opponent will be at the end of their dodge and vulnerable.

7) The third auto attack really sucks because of the aftercast.
Doublestrike->Wildstrike->something else (such as heartseeker) gives the most dps with daggers.

nice post, do you have any advice for same build but with d/d?
why double fire sigils, they share same internal cd or not? and does fire sigil beats air sigil in your opinion?

What D/D suffers is shadow shot and head shot. These two skills are key, especially head shot. I love D/D and cloak and dagger, but unfortunately death blossom and crippling dagger are pretty useless (esp. crip dagger). I would not recommend D/D…however that shouldn’t stop you from playing it if you really like it.

Double fire sigils because even though they do share the same internal cd, both sigils are just…better than anything else really. Usually you have a 70% crit rate with fury, and you really notice the sigil work when shortbowing or backstabbing.

Fire sigil definitely beats air because of the AoE. Remember that you are a team fighter…not a 1v1er.

Been d/d for ages, really love it but you got point that d/p is just more useful, they reduced initiative cost on death blossom and dancing daggers but still not good enough… Think i need to switch to d/p, more choices.
Thank you.

Rassase.7943:

nice post, do you have any advice for same build but with d/d?
why double fire sigils, they share same internal cd or not? and does fire sigil beats air sigil in your opinion?

I’ve been using d/d recently with 10/30/0/0/30 and hidden killer, soldier amulet (z jewel) and slight of hand. It works extremely well: 20 sec cooldown for a steal that strips stability/protection and then dazes (thx anet!), guaranteed crit on the backstab, and the survivability of running soldiers.

Sleight of hand is just bonkers now paired with bountiful theft, everybody who plays thief should give it a shot. Being to use the steal combo multiple times really made thief a joy to play; I even run scorpion wire in hotjoins for yet another 20s cooldown method of landing cnd.

ens.9854:

Rassase.7943:

nice post, do you have any advice for same build but with d/d?
why double fire sigils, they share same internal cd or not? and does fire sigil beats air sigil in your opinion?

I’ve been using d/d recently with 10/30/0/0/30 and hidden killer, soldier amulet (z jewel) and slight of hand. It works extremely well: 20 sec cooldown for a steal that strips stability/protection and then dazes (thx anet!), guaranteed crit on the backstab, and the survivability of running soldiers.

Sleight of hand is just bonkers now paired with bountiful theft, everybody who plays thief should give it a shot. Being to use the steal combo multiple times really made thief a joy to play; I even run scorpion wire in hotjoins for yet another 20s cooldown method of landing cnd.

Yea i was also testing that build but with knight amulet (z jewel) and think that d/d is good with that, and it’s nice to steal so much!
But didn’t try it with d/p yet, what you think about d/p in combination with your build, and what runes do you use?

ens.9854:

Rassase.7943:

nice post, do you have any advice for same build but with d/d?
why double fire sigils, they share same internal cd or not? and does fire sigil beats air sigil in your opinion?

I’ve been using d/d recently with 10/30/0/0/30 and hidden killer, soldier amulet (z jewel) and slight of hand. It works extremely well: 20 sec cooldown for a steal that strips stability/protection and then dazes (thx anet!), guaranteed crit on the backstab, and the survivability of running soldiers.

Sleight of hand is just bonkers now paired with bountiful theft, everybody who plays thief should give it a shot. Being to use the steal combo multiple times really made thief a joy to play; I even run scorpion wire in hotjoins for yet another 20s cooldown method of landing cnd.

I can see this working in spvp but I can’t see it really working in tpvp. Sure you might win 1v1s and see big numbers and feel invincible, but this is a team game, and sometimes just winning 1v1s and staying alive is not helpful. You might be able to fulfill the role of a farpoint assaulter such as with cruuk’s or s/d, but in a massive team fight with tons of condi aoes you are useless prettymuch. Even if you bring shortbow, not having 25 in deadly arts really hampers damage and makes shortbow next to abysmal.

Thief was never great in teamfights, cluster bomb is slow as balls. You still can interrupt stability stomps/dps spikes (and elite shennanigans), poison field rezzers, and more importantly, dive their dps without dying immediately.

As for damage, it is comparable on shortbow if you use executioner/zerker because of the +1% per init… but that doesn’t take advantage of the changes thief has just seen, and you will be chased off from team fights just like the old days.

ens.9854:

Thief was never great in teamfights, cluster bomb is slow as balls. You still can interrupt stability stomps/dps spikes (and elite shennanigans), poison field rezzers, and more importantly, dive their dps without dying immediately.

As for damage, it is comparable on shortbow if you use executioner/zerker because of the +1% per init… but that doesn’t take advantage of the changes thief has just seen, and you will be chased off from team fights just like the old days.

Thief IS great at teamfights because of the insane burst potential that no other class can achieve. It is this burst which allows teams to bring a thief to the match. Without this burst potential, one might as well go hgh engi or necro as clusterbomb does mediocre damage in comparison. Smart play (stealths, shadowsteps) allows a thief’s survivability in teamfights, making them not as squishy as one would think in team fights.

The sleight of hand buff was not bad, and is great in spvp. But not in tpvp. I would much rather go 30 in shadow arts if you are looking for a good 1v1 build with d/p (or s/d is good too). Just because thieves got some new toys doesn’t mean that we must use them…old builds still work. But hey, if it works for you then by all means go ahead.

Another option for this build now is to take Shadow Trap instead of Assassin’s Signet. It’s true that your burst will be decreased, but now you will just avoid trying to burst full-health targets by yourself (something that the Mug nerf made harder to do anyway). Instead, you will only target mid- to low-health targets in teamfights, but now you provide your team the added benefit of being able to easily decap the far node at any time using Shadow Trap. The increase in mobility you will gain will put a lot of pressure on the enemy team’s ability to keep their home node without leaving someone there permanently.

cymerdown.4103:

Another option for this build now is to take Shadow Trap instead of Assassin’s Signet. It’s true that your burst will be decreased, but now you will just avoid trying to burst full-health targets by yourself (something that the Mug nerf made harder to do anyway). Instead, you will only target mid- to low-health targets in teamfights, but now you provide your team the added benefit of being able to easily decap the far node at any time using Shadow Trap. The increase in mobility you will gain will put a lot of pressure on the enemy team’s ability to keep their home node without leaving someone there permanently.

Shadow trap is nice but they will nerf it soon, it’s very good for controling map tho.
30 in trickery can be good in team that has another dps, i’ll test a lil bit more.

cymerdown.4103:

Another option for this build now is to take Shadow Trap instead of Assassin’s Signet. It’s true that your burst will be decreased, but now you will just avoid trying to burst full-health targets by yourself (something that the Mug nerf made harder to do anyway). Instead, you will only target mid- to low-health targets in teamfights, but now you provide your team the added benefit of being able to easily decap the far node at any time using Shadow Trap. The increase in mobility you will gain will put a lot of pressure on the enemy team’s ability to keep their home node without leaving someone there permanently.

Shadow trap is decent, but because thieves really kind of suck at 1v1 (unless you get the jump or running a different build), I would much rather have a mes running portal as they are good 1v1ers. Having a thief use shadow trap is a bit contradictory to their role in a team.

Well, the point isn’t to 1v1 at their home node with Shadow Trap, though. The goal is to use it to quickly neut/cap their point and then leave after winning a team fight. You never stay there and fight — leave them to recap their point and return to mid quickly for the 5v4.

cymerdown.4103:

Well, the point isn’t to 1v1 at their home node with Shadow Trap, though. The goal is to use it to quickly neut/cap their point and then leave after winning a team fight. You never stay there and fight — leave them to recap their point and return to mid quickly for the 5v4.

Good point you brought there. But a lot of times there is a bunker at their home, and that is when neutralizing doesnt always work.

good post, really appreciate these guides

Aeroxe.8140:

cymerdown.4103:

Well, the point isn’t to 1v1 at their home node with Shadow Trap, though. The goal is to use it to quickly neut/cap their point and then leave after winning a team fight. You never stay there and fight — leave them to recap their point and return to mid quickly for the 5v4.

Good point you brought there. But a lot of times there is a bunker at their home, and that is when neutralizing doesnt always work.

And that’s when you get a free 5v4 in mid. And there are VERY strong thief 1v1 specs that don’t lose a lot of their value in team fights. Thieves get neuted on regardless, though, so you’ll never want to keep your thief on their point for very long regardless of whether or not he can win the fight.

Rassase.7943:

nice post, do you have any advice for same build but with d/d?
why double fire sigils, they share same internal cd or not? and does fire sigil beats air sigil in your opinion?

My current D/D build:

15/ (Mug)
30/ (+5% health, haste, Hidden Killer)
0
/25 (Vigor on heal, 2init/10)
/0

The 15 points in the first tree are my personal taste for a tad more burst but they can be put else where. I personally like weakness but the extra 5 in acrobatics with the heal/init is decent. Offhand: SB with fire sigil. Main hand sigils are: 5% dmg and +dmg on kill. Now the runes are a personal choice. Lyssa offers condi removal, stability, and is good for a + crit chance, while if played well enough scholar is fantastic.

Utils: Withdraw, Shadow Step, Infil Signet, and the last is your choosing. Personally, I run shadow trap and use it both offensive/defensively ( fury and 10 might stacks is yummy), but Signet of agility is pretty good here too, and basilisk.

The main point of the build is to be really annoying (all them dodges) which can differ by which class your playing. That will be for you to figure out, I can’t spoil all the fun for you. Do not end up being too aggressive, you will die if you stop thinking (unlike a BM ranger, or possibly a necro atm). What I mean here is do not tunnel vision and always be watching dodges, skills, etc. Fights might take awhile but if you keep up pressure you’ll more than likely win any 1v1 and be able to escape being the focus in team fights.

Aeroxe.8140:

Good point you brought there. But a lot of times there is a bunker at their home, and that is when neutralizing doesnt always work.

If you’re lucky enough to be playing against a team that perma-leaves a bunker on their home point, then enjoy controlling the other 2 points for the rest of the game 5v4. Otherwise, wait till their home point bunker is spotted elsewhere on the map, then go for the quick backcap.

cymerdown.4103:

Aeroxe.8140:

Good point you brought there. But a lot of times there is a bunker at their home, and that is when neutralizing doesnt always work.

If you’re lucky enough to be playing against a team that perma-leaves a bunker on their home point, then enjoy controlling the other 2 points for the rest of the game 5v4. Otherwise, wait till their home point bunker is spotted elsewhere on the map, then go for the quick backcap.

5v4 means that you don’t have a bunker at home…meaning that they can easily backcap you. In that situation, you might have mid, but you have lost side points.
All in all, shadow trap can work. I’ve seen it been used to great effect, but I just don’t like it myself. Assassin’s signet usually means a kill or myself killed in a lot of fights.

Pretty much how I’ve always played my thief, props OP. I wonder how long it will take all the s/d wannabes to start playing with this build considering how they get destroyed by conditions and that’s where the meta seems to be going.

Aeroxe.8140:

5v4 means that you don’t have a bunker at home…meaning that they can easily backcap you. In that situation, you might have mid, but you have lost side points.

Portal/Shadow Trap/eyes + Swiftness

Updated. Might make it into a guide, but dam forum constraints.

Lixion.8457:

Rassase.7943:

nice post, do you have any advice for same build but with d/d?
why double fire sigils, they share same internal cd or not? and does fire sigil beats air sigil in your opinion?

My current D/D build:

15/ (Mug)
30/ (+5% health, haste, Hidden Killer)
0
/25 (Vigor on heal, 2init/10)
/0

The 15 points in the first tree are my personal taste for a tad more burst but they can be put else where. I personally like weakness but the extra 5 in acrobatics with the heal/init is decent. Offhand: SB with fire sigil. Main hand sigils are: 5% dmg and +dmg on kill. Now the runes are a personal choice. Lyssa offers condi removal, stability, and is good for a + crit chance, while if played well enough scholar is fantastic.

Utils: Withdraw, Shadow Step, Infil Signet, and the last is your choosing. Personally, I run shadow trap and use it both offensive/defensively ( fury and 10 might stacks is yummy), but Signet of agility is pretty good here too, and basilisk.

The main point of the build is to be really annoying (all them dodges) which can differ by which class your playing. That will be for you to figure out, I can’t spoil all the fun for you. Do not end up being too aggressive, you will die if you stop thinking (unlike a BM ranger, or possibly a necro atm). What I mean here is do not tunnel vision and always be watching dodges, skills, etc. Fights might take awhile but if you keep up pressure you’ll more than likely win any 1v1 and be able to escape being the focus in team fights.

sounds interesting, gonna give it a try.

Burn.5401:

Pretty much how I’ve always played my thief, props OP. I wonder how long it will take all the s/d wannabes to start playing with this build considering how they get destroyed by conditions and that’s where the meta seems to be going.

First of all, there is no such thing as S/D wannabes. S/D is a weapon set just like D/P and D/D.

Secondly, thieves are still forced to play S/D in TPvP because S/D is still superior than D/P for the reasons below;

1.S/D can make a thief “immortal” if played right (always surviving in team fights; aka Jumper’s build).
2.S/D is more effective than D/P because it removes conditions not only from weapon skill but also from using your elite as well as giving boons to your self.
3.S/D is more efficient with escaping from bad situations or bad positioning.
3.S/D is a pain in the kitten – You either deal with S/D thief or you let him keep stripping off your boons and generally annoy you while you focus other targets.
4.D/P has nothing more to offer than burst because it lacks initiative regen and condi removal (which you can only remove three specific conditions).
5.S/D can challenge a closeholder, D/P cant.

Also at the OP regarding Shadow Trap. There is nothing decent with it. It is so strong that I could write you too many examples and explain you why. Every Thief should always bring Shadow Trap because

a.There is no reason not to just as there is no reason for a mesmer never to have portal with illusion of life. It completes your role as a thief.
b.Teams bring you for a specific reason and everything that you choose must be team related and not personal choice.

Authority.6145:

Burn.5401:

Pretty much how I’ve always played my thief, props OP. I wonder how long it will take all the s/d wannabes to start playing with this build considering how they get destroyed by conditions and that’s where the meta seems to be going.

First of all, there is no such thing as S/D wannabes. S/D is a weapon set just like D/P and D/D.

Secondly, thieves are still forced to play S/D in TPvP because S/D is still superior than D/P for the reasons below;

1.S/D can make a thief “immortal” if played right (always surviving in team fights; aka Jumper’s build).
2.S/D is more effective than D/P because it removes conditions not only from weapon skill but also from using your elite as well as giving boons to your self.
3.S/D is more efficient with escaping from bad situations or bad positioning.
3.S/D is a pain in the kitten – You either deal with S/D thief or you let him keep stripping off your boons and generally annoy you while you focus other targets.
4.D/P has nothing more to offer than burst because it lacks initiative regen and condi removal (which you can only remove three specific conditions).
5.S/D can challenge a closeholder, D/P cant.

Also at the OP regarding Shadow Trap. There is nothing decent with it. It is so strong that I could write you too many examples and explain you why. Every Thief should always bring Shadow Trap because

a.There is no reason not to just as there is no reason for a mesmer never to have portal with illusion of life. It completes your role as a thief.
b.Teams bring you for a specific reason and everything that you choose must be team related and not personal choice.

I think this is all a matter of perspective and the situation. You can argue s/d is better and d/p, however that may just be in your own experience. There are still tons of s/d and d/p thieves out there….it’s pretty clear that both are pretty viable.

On the issue with shadow trap, the only reason why I said it was decent with d/p was because it is contradictory to the thief’s role with d/p. I do however believe that s/d with shadow trap is amazing and should pretty much be used all the time like you said. But again, it’s perspective, and my guide was just a perspective and not a jab at anything.

Authority.6145:

Burn.5401:

Pretty much how I’ve always played my thief, props OP. I wonder how long it will take all the s/d wannabes to start playing with this build considering how they get destroyed by conditions and that’s where the meta seems to be going.

First of all, there is no such thing as S/D wannabes. S/D is a weapon set just like D/P and D/D.

Secondly, thieves are still forced to play S/D in TPvP because S/D is still superior than D/P for the reasons below;

1.S/D can make a thief “immortal” if played right (always surviving in team fights; aka Jumper’s build).
2.S/D is more effective than D/P because it removes conditions not only from weapon skill but also from using your elite as well as giving boons to your self.
3.S/D is more efficient with escaping from bad situations or bad positioning.
3.S/D is a pain in the kitten – You either deal with S/D thief or you let him keep stripping off your boons and generally annoy you while you focus other targets.
4.D/P has nothing more to offer than burst because it lacks initiative regen and condi removal (which you can only remove three specific conditions).
5.S/D can challenge a closeholder, D/P cant.

Also at the OP regarding Shadow Trap. There is nothing decent with it. It is so strong that I could write you too many examples and explain you why. Every Thief should always bring Shadow Trap because

a.There is no reason not to just as there is no reason for a mesmer never to have portal with illusion of life. It completes your role as a thief.
b.Teams bring you for a specific reason and everything that you choose must be team related and not personal choice.

S/D is not immortal, you just need to time attacks around larcenous strike animation in order to connect.

that’s all you need to do.

Changing your patterns instead of spamming 3 all day long ( 33-3-1-dodge-3-3-dodge-3 etc etc) is all based around making your foe to do a mistake and miss the burst or its CC, but that’s about it: a good opponent should always attack in that time frame in order to beat the thief, and that time frame is going to be big since an S/D thief NEEDS to use larcenous as much as he can in order to do damage.

After last patch thief is no more viable, D/P is just terribad ( with eles being able to cover burst role a lot better than thieves) and S/D suffers a lot due to AoE condi cleave meta ( S/D thief offers no AoE at all, especially jumper build) and you would be better of having a double necro and bringing an ele doing thief job.

Even more no one currently leaves home point defenders ( because ranger is also no more viable) since he will just get eaten by a necro, making the thief even less useful.

Shadow trap is terribly buggy, even if you put it in “safe spots” ( spots you know it should work), porting often misses and it can be GAMBREAKING in certain situations ( a single z-axis obrstruction and there’s a chance it will fail); still they’re going to nerf it, without even caring about pathing issues.

In order to try new stuff i’m testing a 10-30-0-0-30 build with S/D + scorpion wire and RFI ( focused on CCs) but i still don’t think it can be tournament viable since there’re so many better choices ( ele-2 necros-engi-mesmer or 2eles-2-necros-mesmer, for example).

thief state is saddening.

Updated July 22…fixed build+thanks for the support!

Also probs the last time I update this. No one really likes necro posts lol.

good post man! -and good info for people looking to get into thief.
To add a bit, here are my rules for capping far:

• Thief is more valuable as a defensive roamer (between mid-home bursting targets that don’t see you coming).
• If there is a fight on home (you’re 2 capped) and at least 4 of the other team are on your home node, this means either mid or far is open, go cap the free node. If the fight is in your team’s favor (your team has more ppl), go help clean up that fight faster then zerg mid with whole team.
• If there is a 5v5 at mid and their backpoint is doing more for their team than you are doing for your’s (it’s all tanky people in the teamfight and you can’t land your burst effectively), go backcap far. This is a “gambit” -you sacrifice a lesser resource for a greater one by aggroing the bunker back to far. Once he engages on you, simply disengage and get back in the fight at mid. If he stays mid and your team looses the fight, cap the point and rush towards the other side of the map to D up home and groupe back up with your team for a push on mid, usually you’ll be a player or two up because one of theirs went back to cap far and if they assault home, you can outnumber them and put them on a rez timer before rushing mid.
• If you know that the backpoint player is terrible and that you can burst him down quickly and there is nothing else really going on (no team fights), go for it. But other than that, unless far is a free cap (no one is on it), you should never really go for it.

If they just plop a bunker engi or fear necro or ranger on home point, just ignore it and win the mid fights by calling your bunker in for a 5v4, if they send one to your home node just ignore it and win the now 5v3 then just send 2 back to home and take the guy out then recap. Rotations is just a numbers game, and as a roaming DPS it’s your job to make the tactical decisions that will allow your team to outnumber theirs in as many fights as possible.