Guild Wars 2

It’s no secret to anyone who has played any amount of SPvP that warriors are seen as free kills. Sure there are one or two builds out there that so you don’t suck as bad, but generally, the cards are stacked against warriors in battle.

For those who play warriors, what do you think would even the playing field?

In my opinion, the problem boils down to poor trait slot choices and long cool downs.

Having the arms of a T-Rex and being required to be in your opponents face to do damage becomes a real problem when you have to combat not just your opponents stun breaks, evades skills, rolls, and invisibility but their crow controls as well.

But what do you think would even thing’s out so people would quit viewing them as free kills?

I think the question isn’t just what warriors need, but how the metagame should be reshaped to make warriors viable.

When comparing what I consider to be the three main glass cannons — warriors, thieves, and mesmers — my ideal is that warriors have the highest survivability and lowest burst, mesmers are in the middle in both categories, and thieves have the worst survivability and highest burst. Obviously, all three classes will have different utility as well.

Right now, warriors have the worst in both categories. In particular, thieves and mesmers have much more survivability. But if warrior survivability was raised to outmatch thief and mesmer, it would likely be way too much.

So what needs to happen is thief and mesmer survivability needs to be brought down and warrior survivability needs to be brought up. That would help warriors find a niche in the metagame.

warrior is fine and will be op after they trie to fix it for the masses

I agree with CollegeDowntime, warriors have some great trait they just require lvl 30 points to obtain which makes the overall stats go to waste! atm they lack not only dmg, but mobility, and defense. with that being said ofc you can create a warrior with absurd amount of dmg! but you will die in less that 15sec in Tournaments. so if you want a warrior who can afflict a fair amount of dmg you need to sacrifice your survivability. ( THIS IS NOT THE CASE WITH GUARDIANS! ) atm guardians does alot more dmg than warriors, with a HUGE amount of survivability, and thats even if the warrior goes full dps!!! what i think needs to be done is do make the physical Utility skills unblockable! yes you heard right, make them unblockable not undodgeable though! the only thing warriors are good for in Tpvp atm is knocking ppl down. And thats really not good at all! taking in consideration that ppl dodge block and blind you ALL the time AND they use Stability. If i had to Remake something about the warrior i would go back the how they used to be!!! ( not that they had unblockable physical utility skills :P ) btw nerf rangers "my pet can heal me underwater even though it’s dead bug ) and make the cd longer on thief’s evade attack underwater!!! for christ sake

I think it’s all about play style and positioning. I choose my fights carefully and try to use the map to my advantage. GS with the elite signet and the melee speed boost will give you Insane mobility. I’ve kited whole teams while my teammates cap. I do hear you on the free kill, cause man I get agro so quick, so I dissingage and play it from there. Most the time, I can pull one or more off point, pin the with an Imobalize, and boom. He’s of point and out of team fight so my team can more easily do there thing.

SkyBoX.6917:

I agree with CollegeDowntime, warriors have some great trait they just require lvl 30 points to obtain which makes the overall stats go to waste! atm they lack not only dmg, but mobility, and defense. with that being said ofc you can create a warrior with absurd amount of dmg! but you will die in less that 15sec in Tournaments. so if you want a warrior who can afflict a fair amount of dmg you need to sacrifice your survivability. ( THIS IS NOT THE CASE WITH GUARDIANS! ) atm guardians does alot more dmg than warriors, with a HUGE amount of survivability, and thats even if the warrior goes full dps!!! what i think needs to be done is do make the physical Utility skills unblockable! yes you heard right, make them unblockable not undodgeable though! the only thing warriors are good for in Tpvp atm is knocking ppl down. And thats really not good at all! taking in consideration that ppl dodge block and blind you ALL the time AND they use Stability. If i had to Remake something about the warrior i would go back the how they used to be!!! ( not that they had unblockable physical utility skills :P ) btw nerf rangers "my pet can heal me underwater even though it’s dead bug ) and make the cd longer on thief’s evade attack underwater!!! for christ sake

Currently warriors have some of the most mobility and THE most damage in the entire game. Their CC is nothing to laugh about either. It’s also worth mentioning they have the highest base stats in the game with both the highest base armor and highest base health.

That said they suck. It’s just true. They are gods against terrible players who don’t know the difference between rush and bull’s rush, but the second you enter a high end tourney with both groups voip’d you’ll need an entire team built around your damage just to do anything.

Sure it’s kittening AWESOME when you go into a team fight and kill three dudes in under five seconds, but that’s just how warriors are. It’kitten or miss, you either hit a home run or you fall on your kitten .

Of all the balance patches that have occured I’m most worried about this one because it has the biggest chance of just being a major kitten show with warriors one shotting kids everywhere.. The only thing that gives me hope is boon hate.

Well you’ll notice that every other class has a method of keeping themselves alive during battle, be it invisibility, blindness, protection, regeneration, etc. while warriors just kind of… eat it.

The closest thing we get is a 4-5 second immunity to direct damage on a 90 second cool down.

But I still have faith that the war can be fixed. I just hope they do it sooner than later.

Warriors aren’t completely useless, they are situational. As ostrich pointed out, they have the ability to dish out extreme amounts of damage even when not spec’ed fully zerk. So the question becomes how much they need to be buffed and in which areas.

I honestly think it’s just a matter of fact of a some shorter cooldowns on utilities and better condition removal. Also capitalising on boon hate as a distinct class mechanic.

And I think that a lot also comes down to player knowledge. I’m seeing a lot more War’s in tpvp nowadays than there were a number of months ago and the overall strength of their builds is getting better. Personally I think a big mistake many warriors run is 2 melee weapons because it offers the highest damage output, but always sitting on the frontlines is generally suicide. LB adrenaline lvl3 is not capitalised upon nearly enough.

yay 8 classes and 2 are situational at best. Get ready for buffed base heals.

If you play a warrior or with a warrior then you are gimping yourself. If you don’t believe me then try it.

I thought this post was in regards to hotjoin farming, but its not.
Warriors are underrated, they are still a good class to play and still dish out the most damage. That’s why most cof p1 runs are with warriors because they are still #1 damage dealers.

A lot of high rank players play warrior for a reason.

Take a look at this screenshot, do you know why that rank 67 hotjoin hero plays warrior?

uberkingkong.8041:

I thought this post was in regards to hotjoin farming, but its not.
Warriors are underrated, they are still a good class to play and still dish out the most damage. That’s why most cof p1 runs are with warriors because they are still #1 damage dealers.

A lot of high rank players play warrior for a reason.

Take a look at this screenshot, do you know why that rank 67 hotjoin hero plays warrior?

For a challenge?

You forgot to look at respective ranks, mate.

And you shouldnt compare spvp with cofp1. Just dont.

Woutan.5934:

uberkingkong.8041:

I thought this post was in regards to hotjoin farming, but its not.
Warriors are underrated, they are still a good class to play and still dish out the most damage. That’s why most cof p1 runs are with warriors because they are still #1 damage dealers.

A lot of high rank players play warrior for a reason.

Take a look at this screenshot, do you know why that rank 67 hotjoin hero plays warrior?

For a challenge?

You forgot to look at respective ranks, mate.

And you shouldnt compare spvp with cofp1. Just dont.

Yeah hes obviously farming spvp with a warrior for a challenge. He’s r67 warrior just for a challenge not because its the easiest class to farm people with.

In spvp, sure, but in tpvp where you’re going to be forced into shield block, then trained the moment you come out of it with next to no mitigation in your kit, you’re going to go down early in fights.

Warriors used to do better when frenzy allowed them to roam into fights and drop a target instantly while their team had stacked stun and immob for them. Now, because their damage comes out a bit slower, they don’t have as much of a tide turning roaming presence. Same thing happened for thieves.

Are you surprised that the meta shifted to condi pressure and attrition after the two premier burst roamers got cut to pieces in terms of balance? Having 1 person at half hp when a roamer arrived simply wasn’t cutting it as a win condition anymore. Giving warriors a token few more condi removal opportunities isn’t going to do much, either, unless they’re given a relatively robust anti-condi engine. They’re just going to need to eat another nade and a half before going down.

Ostricheggs.3742:

SkyBoX.6917:

I agree with CollegeDowntime, warriors have some great trait they just require lvl 30 points to obtain which makes the overall stats go to waste! atm they lack not only dmg, but mobility, and defense. with that being said ofc you can create a warrior with absurd amount of dmg! but you will die in less that 15sec in Tournaments. so if you want a warrior who can afflict a fair amount of dmg you need to sacrifice your survivability. ( THIS IS NOT THE CASE WITH GUARDIANS! ) atm guardians does alot more dmg than warriors, with a HUGE amount of survivability, and thats even if the warrior goes full dps!!! what i think needs to be done is do make the physical Utility skills unblockable! yes you heard right, make them unblockable not undodgeable though! the only thing warriors are good for in Tpvp atm is knocking ppl down. And thats really not good at all! taking in consideration that ppl dodge block and blind you ALL the time AND they use Stability. If i had to Remake something about the warrior i would go back the how they used to be!!! ( not that they had unblockable physical utility skills :P ) btw nerf rangers "my pet can heal me underwater even though it’s dead bug ) and make the cd longer on thief’s evade attack underwater!!! for christ sake

Currently warriors have some of the most mobility and THE most damage in the entire game. Their CC is nothing to laugh about either. It’s also worth mentioning they have the highest base stats in the game with both the highest base armor and highest base health.

That said they suck. It’s just true. They are gods against terrible players who don’t know the difference between rush and bull’s rush, but the second you enter a high end tourney with both groups voip’d you’ll need an entire team built around your damage just to do anything.

Sure it’s kittening AWESOME when you go into a team fight and kill three dudes in under five seconds, but that’s just how warriors are. It’kitten or miss, you either hit a home run or you fall on your kitten .

Of all the balance patches that have occured I’m most worried about this one because it has the biggest chance of just being a major kitten show with warriors one shotting kids everywhere.. The only thing that gives me hope is boon hate.

Ostrich here’s the thing most non warrior players don’t understand (not saying you don’t know the warrior) people say we have the most movement skills, yet they don’t realize that hey are ALL (minus savage leap) completely Annihilated by cripple and chill and now this new condition.

My 40 second utility skill (Bull Rush) is completely shut down by some class’s auto attack (their sword spams cripple). Making us completely kited at ease. These skills are thrown into almost every weapon set and are ALWAYS present in fights.

Mesmers, and guardians have been ridiculous since the beginning of the game, it’s time for warriors to have some spotlight. Of course people are afraid of warriors getting buffed. It’s laughable that they said it is going to be a bad thing, when in Reality kitten that, they are just afraid to actually have to fight a warrior and not just get a free kill by spamming cripples and chills and drinking coffee.

Screw that we NEED our time to be feared by others. We don’t have invulnerable builds (engie bunker, no offense) we have 0 options ever since they have GUTTED us by destroying frenzy.

Everyone is afraid that they will actually have to fight a deadly warrior, you guys make me sick. We haven’t been feared since launch while Every other class (minus necros) have had their time to destroy.

BlueprintLFE.2358:

Ostricheggs.3742:

SkyBoX.6917:

I agree with CollegeDowntime, warriors have some great trait they just require lvl 30 points to obtain which makes the overall stats go to waste! atm they lack not only dmg, but mobility, and defense. with that being said ofc you can create a warrior with absurd amount of dmg! but you will die in less that 15sec in Tournaments. so if you want a warrior who can afflict a fair amount of dmg you need to sacrifice your survivability. ( THIS IS NOT THE CASE WITH GUARDIANS! ) atm guardians does alot more dmg than warriors, with a HUGE amount of survivability, and thats even if the warrior goes full dps!!! what i think needs to be done is do make the physical Utility skills unblockable! yes you heard right, make them unblockable not undodgeable though! the only thing warriors are good for in Tpvp atm is knocking ppl down. And thats really not good at all! taking in consideration that ppl dodge block and blind you ALL the time AND they use Stability. If i had to Remake something about the warrior i would go back the how they used to be!!! ( not that they had unblockable physical utility skills :P ) btw nerf rangers "my pet can heal me underwater even though it’s dead bug ) and make the cd longer on thief’s evade attack underwater!!! for christ sake

Currently warriors have some of the most mobility and THE most damage in the entire game. Their CC is nothing to laugh about either. It’s also worth mentioning they have the highest base stats in the game with both the highest base armor and highest base health.

That said they suck. It’s just true. They are gods against terrible players who don’t know the difference between rush and bull’s rush, but the second you enter a high end tourney with both groups voip’d you’ll need an entire team built around your damage just to do anything.

Sure it’s kittening AWESOME when you go into a team fight and kill three dudes in under five seconds, but that’s just how warriors are. It’kitten or miss, you either hit a home run or you fall on your kitten .

Of all the balance patches that have occured I’m most worried about this one because it has the biggest chance of just being a major kitten show with warriors one shotting kids everywhere.. The only thing that gives me hope is boon hate.

Ostrich here’s the thing most non warrior players don’t understand (not saying you don’t know the warrior) people say we have the most movement skills, yet they don’t realize that hey are ALL (minus savage leap) completely Annihilated by cripple and chill and now this new condition.

My 40 second utility skill (Bull Rush) is completely shut down by some class’s auto attack (their sword spams cripple). Making us completely kited at ease. These skills are thrown into almost every weapon set and are ALWAYS present in fights.

Mesmers, and guardians have been ridiculous since the beginning of the game, it’s time for warriors to have some spotlight. Of course people are afraid of warriors getting buffed. It’s laughable that they said it is going to be a bad thing, when in Reality kitten that, they are just afraid to actually have to fight a warrior and not just get a free kill by spamming cripples and chills and drinking coffee.

Screw that we NEED our time to be feared by others. We don’t have invulnerable builds (engie bunker, no offense) we have 0 options ever since they have GUTTED us by destroying frenzy.

Everyone is afraid that they will actually have to fight a deadly warrior, you guys make me sick. We haven’t been feared since launch while Every other class (minus necros) have had their time to destroy.

Today I went afk and my tourney popped while I was on my warrior. I proceeded to signet, run straight to graveyard and killed 3 people in one hundred blades. I was running 20 0 20 0 30 with longbow/GS, defensive as hell and gives condi clear just in case the leaked notes are correct.

It’s not that I’m “afraid” of fighting a warrior, I’d be glad to see warriors come around again. It would be pretty refreshing. The only problem is that I’d prefer to not have them go from complete kitten to GODS with a few changes.

Archer Henchman.2534:

In spvp, sure, but in tpvp where you’re going to be forced into shield block, then trained the moment you come out of it with next to no mitigation in your kit, you’re going to go down early in fights.

Warriors used to do better when frenzy allowed them to roam into fights and drop a target instantly while their team had stacked stun and immob for them. Now, because their damage comes out a bit slower, they don’t have as much of a tide turning roaming presence. Same thing happened for thieves.

Are you surprised that the meta shifted to condi pressure and attrition after the two premier burst roamers got cut to pieces in terms of balance? Having 1 person at half hp when a roamer arrived simply wasn’t cutting it as a win condition anymore. Giving warriors a token few more condi removal opportunities isn’t going to do much, either, unless they’re given a relatively robust anti-condi engine. They’re just going to need to eat another nade and a half before going down.

Warriors have naturally high vitality which is a natural hard-counter to conditions. If the changes go through and the defense master trait is made available it’s not hard to consider their clears “robust” in conjunction with healing surge.

Ostricheggs.3742:

Archer Henchman.2534:

In spvp, sure, but in tpvp where you’re going to be forced into shield block, then trained the moment you come out of it with next to no mitigation in your kit, you’re going to go down early in fights.

Warriors used to do better when frenzy allowed them to roam into fights and drop a target instantly while their team had stacked stun and immob for them. Now, because their damage comes out a bit slower, they don’t have as much of a tide turning roaming presence. Same thing happened for thieves.

Are you surprised that the meta shifted to condi pressure and attrition after the two premier burst roamers got cut to pieces in terms of balance? Having 1 person at half hp when a roamer arrived simply wasn’t cutting it as a win condition anymore. Giving warriors a token few more condi removal opportunities isn’t going to do much, either, unless they’re given a relatively robust anti-condi engine. They’re just going to need to eat another nade and a half before going down.

Warriors have naturally high vitality which is a natural hard-counter to conditions. If the changes go through and the defense master trait is made available it’s not hard to consider their clears “robust” in conjunction with healing surge.

Yeah, I was expecting a few removals to be added to marginal skills, but their condi-mitigation kit was substantially improved according to the patch notes. I don’t really think their natural high hp ‘solves’ condis for them, though; they’re also the class that’s most negatively influenced by chill and crip.

That said, I’d be really unsurprised if we started seeing something akin to a shout hammer + mace/shield warrior bunker, as condi pressure was the only thing keeping them down. Combined with the new heal cds, warriors can tank up excessively hard. Skull crack is now a three second stun, most of the hammer aftercasts are being reduced, etc.

I suppose it depends how much incoming damage increments adren buildup; if its relatively high, you’ll get consistent condi removal AND incredibly powerful CC out of the deal. For burstier trait setups some of the traits, like berserker’s power, are insane. Berserker’s might with the new berserker’s stance might be very powerful too from both an adren AND condi mitigation perspective.

Anyways, warriors got WAY more than I had anticipated. I figured they’d give mending an extra condi strip or two, and add a -chill and -crip duration to a trait.

Archer Henchman.2534:

Ostricheggs.3742:

Archer Henchman.2534:

In spvp, sure, but in tpvp where you’re going to be forced into shield block, then trained the moment you come out of it with next to no mitigation in your kit, you’re going to go down early in fights.

Warriors used to do better when frenzy allowed them to roam into fights and drop a target instantly while their team had stacked stun and immob for them. Now, because their damage comes out a bit slower, they don’t have as much of a tide turning roaming presence. Same thing happened for thieves.

Are you surprised that the meta shifted to condi pressure and attrition after the two premier burst roamers got cut to pieces in terms of balance? Having 1 person at half hp when a roamer arrived simply wasn’t cutting it as a win condition anymore. Giving warriors a token few more condi removal opportunities isn’t going to do much, either, unless they’re given a relatively robust anti-condi engine. They’re just going to need to eat another nade and a half before going down.

Warriors have naturally high vitality which is a natural hard-counter to conditions. If the changes go through and the defense master trait is made available it’s not hard to consider their clears “robust” in conjunction with healing surge.

Yeah, I was expecting a few removals to be added to marginal skills, but their condi-mitigation kit was substantially improved according to the patch notes. I don’t really think their natural high hp ‘solves’ condis for them, though; they’re also the class that’s most negatively influenced by chill and crip.

That said, I’d be really unsurprised if we started seeing something akin to a shout hammer + mace/shield warrior bunker, as condi pressure was the only thing keeping them down. Combined with the new heal cds, warriors can tank up excessively hard. Skull crack is now a three second stun, most of the hammer aftercasts are being reduced, etc.

I suppose it depends how much incoming damage increments adren buildup; if its relatively high, you’ll get consistent condi removal AND incredibly powerful CC out of the deal. For burstier trait setups some of the traits, like berserker’s power, are insane. Berserker’s might with the new berserker’s stance might be very powerful too from both an adren AND condi mitigation perspective.

Anyways, warriors got WAY more than I had anticipated. I figured they’d give mending an extra condi strip or two, and add a -chill and -crip duration to a trait.

Zerker Stance does look good but the 60 second cooldown seems a bit excessive, it encourages running burst damage even more rather than sustained DPS that I think warrior is destined for. Not to mention that if the new condition can be applied frequently and in large amounts we will once again be forced into a single build with Cleansing Ire and Zerker Stance in order to be competitive. As for Shot builds I do think we may see more hammers but probably Sword instead of Mace for mobility and using Flurry as a set up for Backbreaker and to take advantage of Leg Specialist.

EDIT: I could see something like this becoming good again:

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fIAQNAS8ejcOxu1OyQMRCEkCNsKMKMif4oQJWiUBxA-TsAA1CtI4SxljLDXSus1MQY9xGBA

Replace Defense I with the New Cleansing Ire. With Leg specialist and Opportunist you would basically have 100% Fury and with Unsuspecting Foe your attacks after Earthshaker will have some 84% crit chance I believe. Replace STR 3 with Physical training and suddenly you have a lower CD Bulls and Stomp. All of this means you’ll have a decent crit chance with survival and CC in addition to conditions not totally destroying you (theoretically). Because Zerkers might is being moved Restorative Strength seems the best option. Of course stability makes the whole build a bit meh but not much you can do there.

BurrTheKing.8571:

Archer Henchman.2534:

Ostricheggs.3742:

Archer Henchman.2534:

In spvp, sure, but in tpvp where you’re going to be forced into shield block, then trained the moment you come out of it with next to no mitigation in your kit, you’re going to go down early in fights.

Warriors used to do better when frenzy allowed them to roam into fights and drop a target instantly while their team had stacked stun and immob for them. Now, because their damage comes out a bit slower, they don’t have as much of a tide turning roaming presence. Same thing happened for thieves.

Are you surprised that the meta shifted to condi pressure and attrition after the two premier burst roamers got cut to pieces in terms of balance? Having 1 person at half hp when a roamer arrived simply wasn’t cutting it as a win condition anymore. Giving warriors a token few more condi removal opportunities isn’t going to do much, either, unless they’re given a relatively robust anti-condi engine. They’re just going to need to eat another nade and a half before going down.

Warriors have naturally high vitality which is a natural hard-counter to conditions. If the changes go through and the defense master trait is made available it’s not hard to consider their clears “robust” in conjunction with healing surge.

Yeah, I was expecting a few removals to be added to marginal skills, but their condi-mitigation kit was substantially improved according to the patch notes. I don’t really think their natural high hp ‘solves’ condis for them, though; they’re also the class that’s most negatively influenced by chill and crip.

That said, I’d be really unsurprised if we started seeing something akin to a shout hammer + mace/shield warrior bunker, as condi pressure was the only thing keeping them down. Combined with the new heal cds, warriors can tank up excessively hard. Skull crack is now a three second stun, most of the hammer aftercasts are being reduced, etc.

I suppose it depends how much incoming damage increments adren buildup; if its relatively high, you’ll get consistent condi removal AND incredibly powerful CC out of the deal. For burstier trait setups some of the traits, like berserker’s power, are insane. Berserker’s might with the new berserker’s stance might be very powerful too from both an adren AND condi mitigation perspective.

Anyways, warriors got WAY more than I had anticipated. I figured they’d give mending an extra condi strip or two, and add a -chill and -crip duration to a trait.

Zerker Stance does look good but the 60 second cooldown seems a bit excessive, it encourages running burst damage even more rather than sustained DPS that I think warrior is destined for. Not to mention that if the new condition can be applied frequently and in large amounts we will once again be forced into a single build with Cleansing Ire and Zerker Stance in order to be competitive. As for Shot builds I do think we may see more hammers but probably Sword instead of Mace for mobility and using Flurry as a set up for Backbreaker and to take advantage of Leg Specialist.

EDIT: I could see something like this becoming good again:

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fIAQNAS8ejcOxu1OyQMRCEkCNsKMKMif4oQJWiUBxA-TsAA1CtI4SxljLDXSus1MQY9xGBA

Replace Defense I with the New Cleansing Ire. With Leg specialist and Opportunist you would basically have 100% Fury and with Unsuspecting Foe your attacks after Earthshaker will have some 84% crit chance I believe. Replace STR 3 with Physical training and suddenly you have a lower CD Bulls and Stomp. All of this means you’ll have a decent crit chance with survival and CC in addition to conditions not totally destroying you (theoretically). Because Zerkers might is being moved Restorative Strength seems the best option. Of course stability makes the whole build a bit meh but not much you can do there.

If the changes stay I’d do 30 0 20 0 20 with longbow greatsword and healing surge. It’s gonna be insane

Ostricheggs.3742:

BlueprintLFE.2358:

Ostricheggs.3742:

SkyBoX.6917:

I agree with CollegeDowntime, warriors have some great trait they just require lvl 30 points to obtain which makes the overall stats go to waste! atm they lack not only dmg, but mobility, and defense. with that being said ofc you can create a warrior with absurd amount of dmg! but you will die in less that 15sec in Tournaments. so if you want a warrior who can afflict a fair amount of dmg you need to sacrifice your survivability. ( THIS IS NOT THE CASE WITH GUARDIANS! ) atm guardians does alot more dmg than warriors, with a HUGE amount of survivability, and thats even if the warrior goes full dps!!! what i think needs to be done is do make the physical Utility skills unblockable! yes you heard right, make them unblockable not undodgeable though! the only thing warriors are good for in Tpvp atm is knocking ppl down. And thats really not good at all! taking in consideration that ppl dodge block and blind you ALL the time AND they use Stability. If i had to Remake something about the warrior i would go back the how they used to be!!! ( not that they had unblockable physical utility skills :P ) btw nerf rangers "my pet can heal me underwater even though it’s dead bug ) and make the cd longer on thief’s evade attack underwater!!! for christ sake

Currently warriors have some of the most mobility and THE most damage in the entire game. Their CC is nothing to laugh about either. It’s also worth mentioning they have the highest base stats in the game with both the highest base armor and highest base health.

That said they suck. It’s just true. They are gods against terrible players who don’t know the difference between rush and bull’s rush, but the second you enter a high end tourney with both groups voip’d you’ll need an entire team built around your damage just to do anything.

Sure it’s kittening AWESOME when you go into a team fight and kill three dudes in under five seconds, but that’s just how warriors are. It’kitten or miss, you either hit a home run or you fall on your kitten .

Of all the balance patches that have occured I’m most worried about this one because it has the biggest chance of just being a major kitten show with warriors one shotting kids everywhere.. The only thing that gives me hope is boon hate.

Ostrich here’s the thing most non warrior players don’t understand (not saying you don’t know the warrior) people say we have the most movement skills, yet they don’t realize that hey are ALL (minus savage leap) completely Annihilated by cripple and chill and now this new condition.

My 40 second utility skill (Bull Rush) is completely shut down by some class’s auto attack (their sword spams cripple). Making us completely kited at ease. These skills are thrown into almost every weapon set and are ALWAYS present in fights.

Mesmers, and guardians have been ridiculous since the beginning of the game, it’s time for warriors to have some spotlight. Of course people are afraid of warriors getting buffed. It’s laughable that they said it is going to be a bad thing, when in Reality kitten that, they are just afraid to actually have to fight a warrior and not just get a free kill by spamming cripples and chills and drinking coffee.

Screw that we NEED our time to be feared by others. We don’t have invulnerable builds (engie bunker, no offense) we have 0 options ever since they have GUTTED us by destroying frenzy.

Everyone is afraid that they will actually have to fight a deadly warrior, you guys make me sick. We haven’t been feared since launch while Every other class (minus necros) have had their time to destroy.

Today I went afk and my tourney popped while I was on my warrior. I proceeded to signet, run straight to graveyard and killed 3 people in one hundred blades. I was running 20 0 20 0 30 with longbow/GS, defensive as hell and gives condi clear just in case the leaked notes are correct.

It’s not that I’m “afraid” of fighting a warrior, I’d be glad to see warriors come around again. It would be pretty refreshing. The only problem is that I’d prefer to not have them go from complete kitten to GODS with a few changes.

So you killed 3 stationary targets, congrats? You are still fear mongering about warriors which you seem to do in just about every post you make related to the warrior.

First thing I wanna say is, my build of Longbow / Greatsword warrior is the hardest class/build to play with in this game. Most people think warrior is the easiest and lowest skill cap required to play with, yes it is because you suck. There is huge HUGE difference when you mastered my build.

First-off, I was watching Ostrich’s stream when he tried my build in hot-join and tournament, and he did everything wrong, just everything, and he start complaining about warrior sucks after just few hours of play. Well just stop, please stop when you did everything wrong with my build. Warrior’s situation right now is like what you said, “you either home-run, or fail.” Yes it is, and once you mastered it, you wont fail a lot, and you home-run a lot. (I’m not insulting you Ostrich, I love you, I’m just talking about this community right now, and I know you should understand that how much pressure you will feel when you saw me appear in a team-fight). You might ask me, why people don’t run warrior in tournament? Will because most people just effected by the stereotype that warrior isn’t viable, and the fact is that most players right now just choose to run cheesy and non-skilled cap required build. They don’t give a try for warrior, because they don’t understand and don’t know how to play warrior like me.

After that, I’ll talk about the leak patch. If the info is true, warrior get nerf again. In order to give defense tree 20 points leads you abandon most of the important trait. From this leak patch, Hman’s build totally gone. I’m still ok with it because my Longbow /Greatsword build just got a lilttle bit buff, and I can still try out other new things. The reason why I’m saying warrior getting nerf again is because A-net just move 2 important traits from adpt to grandmaster, which kills warriors’ dps hard.

The new trait Cleans Ire sounds good, but 20 defense trait kill your dps again(I will try this trait out after the actual patch release). Moving the Destruction of Empowered to the Master tier is dumb, because most of the warrior will not give up Mobile Strike. Berserker Stance just useless, 60 seconds cooldown with only 4 seconds duration. Endure still fail even they reduce the cool-down to 60s because you still eat condition.

The good thing appear in this patch is that they reduce all Healing skill’s cool-down. Still bad because the healing amount still pathetic, but it’s better than right now.

Another good thing is that fix the Rush on greatsword, and also give swiftness on balance stance.

So pretty much, R.I.P to Hman’s build, and let’s see how much buff I get after the patch.
If you don’t like my comment here ppl, welcome to duel me, but please run your tournament build and fight me like you fight in tournament.

Peace.

How is it fear mongering? I’ll be the first one to say that warrior buffs are absolutely necessary. I was one of the first ones to eulogize the warriors after the quickness nerf. They’re most definitely not in a good spot right now.

All I’m doing is pointing out there’s a fine line between warriors being not being viable at all and warriors being too strong.

Why do you think people bring 3-5 warriors in PvE? They do the most damage in the game in the shortest amount of time. Of course mobs don’t explicitly exploit warrior’s weaknesses, but once those are addressed it’s hard not to see warriors being incredibly strong.

I’m not fear mongering. Just giving my opinion. Don’t take it the wrong way

The loss of Hman’s build and the restructuring of our damage to grandmaster just means you will not use axe much anymore, which makes me sad. We took a big raw damage nerf with the leaks. I think hammer will be better with the shorter after casts and I can manage quarter knocking better. But overall they did what people asked for. Nerf damage and increase survival by making defense tree better.

What I don’t like is that now instead of giving us the option to go for survival or damage its basically you must go survival. Going 30 points for heightened focus and power trait was a little extreme I think.

Warrior still won’t be OP, but us guys can definitely find a playable spot now.

My 40 second utility skill (Bull Rush) is completely shut down by some class’s auto attack (their sword spams cripple). Making us completely kited at ease. These skills are thrown into almost every weapon set and are ALWAYS present in fights.

Excuse me but are you referring to thieves? (You must be, because the only other class with a cripple on their sword auto is the ranger) I can promise you that no thief is going to stand close to a warrior and keep him crippled with autoattack, that’s just not happening, because it’d be foolish.

Now I am not saying that warriors are not completely screwed over by chills and cripple, but that’s a) mostly coming from the range classes/builds in the team fight and b) a problem with the game itself, because it favors range builds so much.

Combat uptime for range classes is so much higher than for melees, it’ not even funny and on top of it you don’t even take a fraction of the damage a melee does. The only way to kill them is to “train” them, which means the melee is hopelessly overextending while taking all sorts of damage while chasing and usually killed in the worst spots but even if you manage to get them down, you lose so much time before you get to the next guy, that the guy you just killed is half way back to the node already. because not only did you have to recover from the HP loss, but you also had to close the newly created gap.

That’s a huge flaw with the combat system and not with the warrior class. The warrior class just happens to be one of two melee focused classes by design.

Allowing melees to endlessly stick to their target isn’t a solution either, however, due to the nature of how skills are designed (and that’s a good thing). Power-based skills and playstyles (not so much condition-based, which is another huge flaw in this game) are designed to deal a lot more damage than ranged ones. Though balance in this regard has not been achieved at all yet and if we ever want to see good competitive PvP, this needs to be addressed.

How to address it? The theory is simple:

1. Make sure that, both, power and condi-based builds are vastly more effective in terms of raw damage when they require shorter range to deliver their damage than if they can do so from 900-1500 range

2. Don’t simply give melees the tools to sick to their target or range classes to stay away indefinitely, but actually balance the scale by adjusting the sustain (healing, active/passive defenses) these two disctinct playstyles have access to.

You want to create an equation that gives more sustain to classes that have lower combat uptime and less sustain to classes that have a higher one. Unfortunately right now it’s pretty much backwards and those classes that we see playing range builds in the current meta have much more healing and more if not similar evasion than those who have to constantly chase their target.

Yes, anet yes, nerf the damage build and buff defend build because these two are definitely related together and warriors damage build was definitely OP and need nerf.
and your defend build is definitely going to be better then bunker guardian and yea, buff them zerker guardians too, so warriors can be the worst at everything.

This was taken earlier. Two Warriors dominated a 4v2, and I was also using an experimental build I had theorycrafted 5 minutes prior.

Warriors are viable and even quite good, just not as viable as other classes. Warriors need to be babysat, but trust me when I say, there is no better teammate for me than a good Warrior.

TheMightyAltroll.3485:

This was taken earlier. Two Warriors dominated a 4v2, and I was also using an experimental build I had theorycrafted 5 minutes prior.

Warriors are viable and even quite good, just not as viable as other classes. Warriors need to be babysat, but trust me when I say, there is no better teammate for me than a good Warrior.

you know whats a better teamate for warrior? engineer.
and dominating in an all 30 vs all 20 with a single digit rank is nothing.. really..not to mention if you are going to use it as an example for your opinion..

Not quite, actually. A Well-based Necromancer is by far the best teammate for a Warrior.

uberkingkong.8041:

I thought this post was in regards to hotjoin farming, but its not.
Warriors are underrated, they are still a good class to play and still dish out the most damage. That’s why most cof p1 runs are with warriors because they are still #1 damage dealers.

A lot of high rank players play warrior for a reason.

Take a look at this screenshot, do you know why that rank 67 hotjoin hero plays warrior?

Because he is a masochist.

Med.6150:

My 40 second utility skill (Bull Rush) is completely shut down by some class’s auto attack (their sword spams cripple). Making us completely kited at ease. These skills are thrown into almost every weapon set and are ALWAYS present in fights.

Excuse me but are you referring to thieves? (You must be, because the only other class with a cripple on their sword auto is the ranger) I can promise you that no thief is going to stand close to a warrior and keep him crippled with autoattack, that’s just not happening, because it’d be foolish.

Now I am not saying that warriors are not completely screwed over by chills and cripple, but that’s a) mostly coming from the range classes/builds in the team fight and b) a problem with the game itself, because it favors range builds so much.

Combat uptime for range classes is so much higher than for melees, it’ not even funny and on top of it you don’t even take a fraction of the damage a melee does. The only way to kill them is to “train” them, which means the melee is hopelessly overextending while taking all sorts of damage while chasing and usually killed in the worst spots but even if you manage to get them down, you lose so much time before you get to the next guy, that the guy you just killed is half way back to the node already. because not only did you have to recover from the HP loss, but you also had to close the newly created gap.

That’s a huge flaw with the combat system and not with the warrior class. The warrior class just happens to be one of two melee focused classes by design.

Allowing melees to endlessly stick to their target isn’t a solution either, however, due to the nature of how skills are designed (and that’s a good thing). Power-based skills and playstyles (not so much condition-based, which is another huge flaw in this game) are designed to deal a lot more damage than ranged ones. Though balance in this regard has not been achieved at all yet and if we ever want to see good competitive PvP, this needs to be addressed.

How to address it? The theory is simple:

1. Make sure that, both, power and condi-based builds are vastly more effective in terms of raw damage when they require shorter range to deliver their damage than if they can do so from 900-1500 range

2. Don’t simply give melees the tools to sick to their target or range classes to stay away indefinitely, but actually balance the scale by adjusting the sustain (healing, active/passive defenses) these two disctinct playstyles have access to.

You want to create an equation that gives more sustain to classes that have lower combat uptime and less sustain to classes that have a higher one. Unfortunately right now it’s pretty much backwards and those classes that we see playing range builds in the current meta have much more healing and more if not similar evasion than those who have to constantly chase their target.

Yes I was talking about the thief, but I was using it illustrate a point about cripple, chill, and blind, being slapped on tons of low cool downs skills so that they are ever present on group fights.

Of course a thief is going to stand there and cripple the warrior. Sword and dagger thieves laugh hard at warrior now, porting in hitting a few times then porting out crippling the warr, flanking strike to evade all damage, larcenous strike to destroy our only decent offensive elite.

If these patch notes are true then out class just got completely replaced by guardians. More group utility, teleports to land damage, and not be kited all over, High damage, high up times of protection, regen and stability. Makes the warrior look completely out of place in this game as a front line melee fighter with none of these tools.

THE ONLY thing we had going for us was damage, and with the complete gutting of beserkers power, and heightened focus we just took a massive hit to our only playstyle (even that playstyle is a joke).

We have serious innate problems that have t even been addressed in this patch with sustainability (Lol Healing signet provides a 200 up heal, and a 3k heal on use), and being kited all over the place, we have huge telegraphed attacks that a blind simply negates.

Ostrich you said you jumped into a tourney with a warrior and immediately killed 3 people with 100B. —-Come on now mate-- I thought you were at a higher tier than that (no offense as I respect you as a player) but seriously,100B is a joke skill (unless for Rezz pressuring) all 3 of those targets had to have been completely immobilized or CC’d, with no stunbreakers, or hey had to have died at thier keyboards,,for you to have done that. Nobody and I mean nobody has complained about getting killed by 100B in pvp since Release. There’s a reason for that.

BlueprintLFE.2358:

Of course a thief is going to stand there and cripple the warrior. Sword and dagger thieves laugh hard at warrior now, porting in hitting a few times then porting out crippling the warr, flanking strike to evade all damage, larcenous strike to destroy our only decent offensive elite.

I don’t want to go into the whole S/D thieves dominate warriors and what not, but if a thief can really perform the whole autoattack chain on you, then you simply need to learn to recognize animations. In the time it takes to get the cripple on from the autoattack chain, the warrior has killed you from 100 to 0.

The cripple also lasts 2 seconds fyi.

I don’t feel that the problem is with the warrior’s traits/builds.

I see people talking about survivability/sustain with other classes. There is a reason for that.
Weapon utility; without actually sacrificing utility slots.

I’m sure warriors would be in a better place with evasion, stealth, blink, condi-remove, pseudo stun breaks, retal, regen, heals, protection, etc, etc on various weapon sets.

Who needs traits or utility slots when weapon design is THE major factor when it comes to comparing warriors to other classes.

TheMightyAltroll.3485:

Not quite, actually. A Well-based Necromancer is by far the best teammate for a Warrior.

Lol tell me how a necromancer is better teamate then an engineers constant no-moving CC for warriors to land their damage.

Because an Necromancer can compliment their damage, keep them alive with AoE Blinds, CC the oppponent almost as much as a CC-based Engineer, and all the while provide far more bursting potential at the same time than an Engineer.

To put it into perspective, Kindia (LB A/S Warrior) and myself captured a point, and held it for 7 minutes against constant attacks from a premade team, at one point winning a 5v2 with only 50% health from the start.

An Engineer, can only single-target and CC opponents outside of grenades (Grenades don’t help a Warrior much at all, by the way). Necromancers aid with a much bigger picture.

TheMightyAltroll.3485:

Because an Necromancer can compliment their damage, keep them alive with AoE Blinds, CC the oppponent almost as much as a CC-based Engineer, and all the while provide far more bursting potential at the same time than an Engineer.

To put it into perspective, Kindia (LB A/S Warrior) and myself captured a point, and held it for 7 minutes against constant attacks from a premade team, at one point winning a 5v2 with only 50% health from the start.

An Engineer, can only single-target and CC opponents outside of grenades (Grenades don’t help a Warrior much at all, by the way). Necromancers aid with a much bigger picture.

please tell me how necro cc better for warrior to land their damage then engi, because you are basically talking non sense right now, and yea, you can’t do a 5v2 with 50% health or its hotjoin with more then 5 people. and your example proves nothing, not to mention i once teamed with an engi and we moved from point to point destroying everything in our path within seconds. but then again that was my best map

Lighter.5631:

TheMightyAltroll.3485:

Because an Necromancer can compliment their damage, keep them alive with AoE Blinds, CC the oppponent almost as much as a CC-based Engineer, and all the while provide far more bursting potential at the same time than an Engineer.

To put it into perspective, Kindia (LB A/S Warrior) and myself captured a point, and held it for 7 minutes against constant attacks from a premade team, at one point winning a 5v2 with only 50% health from the start.

An Engineer, can only single-target and CC opponents outside of grenades (Grenades don’t help a Warrior much at all, by the way). Necromancers aid with a much bigger picture.

please tell me how necro cc better for warrior to land their damage then engi, because you are basically talking non sense right now, and yea, you can’t do a 5v2 with 50% health or its hotjoin with more then 5 people. and your example proves nothing, not to mention i once teamed with an engi and we moved from point to point destroying everything in our path within seconds. but then again that was my best map

Necromancer can Fear, perma chill, immobilize, daze, blind, all whilst dealing heavy damage. Engineers are not as effective at doing all of that, let alone AoE.

CollegeDowntime.4187:

It’s no secret to anyone who has played any amount of SPvP that warriors are seen as free kills. Sure there are one or two builds out there that so you don’t suck as bad, but generally, the cards are stacked against warriors in battle.

For those who play warriors, what do you think would even the playing field?

In my opinion, the problem boils down to poor trait slot choices and long cool downs.

Having the arms of a T-Rex and being required to be in your opponents face to do damage becomes a real problem when you have to combat not just your opponents stun breaks, evades skills, rolls, and invisibility but their crow controls as well.

But what do you think would even thing’s out so people would quit viewing them as free kills?

I think warrior’s are fine as they are because they are the only free kills to me

/Signed Another warrior

TheMightyAltroll.3485:

Lighter.5631:

TheMightyAltroll.3485:

Because an Necromancer can compliment their damage, keep them alive with AoE Blinds, CC the oppponent almost as much as a CC-based Engineer, and all the while provide far more bursting potential at the same time than an Engineer.

To put it into perspective, Kindia (LB A/S Warrior) and myself captured a point, and held it for 7 minutes against constant attacks from a premade team, at one point winning a 5v2 with only 50% health from the start.

An Engineer, can only single-target and CC opponents outside of grenades (Grenades don’t help a Warrior much at all, by the way). Necromancers aid with a much bigger picture.

please tell me how necro cc better for warrior to land their damage then engi, because you are basically talking non sense right now, and yea, you can’t do a 5v2 with 50% health or its hotjoin with more then 5 people. and your example proves nothing, not to mention i once teamed with an engi and we moved from point to point destroying everything in our path within seconds. but then again that was my best map

Necromancer can Fear, perma chill, immobilize, daze, blind, all whilst dealing heavy damage. Engineers are not as effective at doing all of that, let alone AoE.

say what? listing some random conditions doesnt help you win the argument, since i have nothing to comment, ill just say necromancers simply cant compare to engineer when talking about babysitting warriors.

I’ll have to agree with the others here. I love my Necro, but Engineer just provides much better team support for Warrior. Engineer running Teldo’s build for example. You get combo fields, immobilizes, epic peals, aoe healing, rez/condi removal field.

It’s always going to be based upon opinion, however in my experience, I love having Warriors on my team, and Warriors love having me on theirs. I also use an Engi, and I certainly don’t feel as comfortable supporting Warriors as such.

Speaking of which, most of the things you described have to be individually built for nearly.

The best thing to fix warrior IMO would be to overhaul traits/abilities to amplify incoming support (like a trait that increases the duration of incoming boons from teammates, a trait that lets you use your healing power for outside healing sources, maybe even something crazy like receiving an outside boon causes a stunbreak or creates adrenaline etc) . Giving the Warrior too much of its own sustain like some are suggesting would put the class dangerously close to being a “better/selfish guardian”.

Also I do like that Warrior is going in an anti-condition direction but I don’t think the way they are doing it works well, it’s too passive. Instead of flat reductions like that -33% CC dogged match trait and passive abilities to bleed off conditions with the new patch, they should focus on burst immunity/cleanses that allow the warrior to quickly close gap, put in damage, and GTFO in a well timed manner.

roamzero.9486:

The best thing to fix warrior IMO would be to overhaul traits/abilities to amplify incoming support (like a trait that increases the duration of incoming boons from teammates, a trait that lets you use your healing power for outside healing sources, maybe even something crazy like receiving an outside boon causes a stunbreak or creates adrenaline etc) . Giving the Warrior too much of its own sustain like some are suggesting would put the class dangerously close to being a “better/selfish guardian”.

Also I do like that Warrior is going in an anti-condition direction but I don’t think the way they are doing it works well, it’s too passive. Instead of flat reductions like that -33% CC dogged match trait and passive abilities to bleed off conditions with the new patch, they should focus on burst immunity/cleanses that allow the warrior to quickly close gap, put in damage, and GTFO in a well timed manner.

Guardians are not selfish. Why should warriors be not only worse then them, but worse in everything else as well. Did you /NOT/ read our original class description?

“As a heavily armored soldier profession, warriors are only second to guardians in terms of enduring punishment.”

Currently, this is very much so not the case, by a far far margin…

With the suppose damage nerfs, we will do less dps then they do. So what is the point to bringing a War over a Guardian now?

Daecollo.9578:

roamzero.9486:

The best thing to fix warrior IMO would be to overhaul traits/abilities to amplify incoming support (like a trait that increases the duration of incoming boons from teammates, a trait that lets you use your healing power for outside healing sources, maybe even something crazy like receiving an outside boon causes a stunbreak or creates adrenaline etc) . Giving the Warrior too much of its own sustain like some are suggesting would put the class dangerously close to being a “better/selfish guardian”.

Also I do like that Warrior is going in an anti-condition direction but I don’t think the way they are doing it works well, it’s too passive. Instead of flat reductions like that -33% CC dogged match trait and passive abilities to bleed off conditions with the new patch, they should focus on burst immunity/cleanses that allow the warrior to quickly close gap, put in damage, and GTFO in a well timed manner.

Guardians are not selfish. Why should warriors be not only worse then them, but worse in everything else as well. Did you /NOT/ read our original class description?

“As a heavily armored soldier profession, warriors are only second to guardians in terms of enduring punishment.”

Currently, this is very much so not the case, by a far far margin…

With the suppose damage nerfs, we will do less dps then they do. So what is the point to bringing a War over a Guardian now?

I was on pvp today and fought with a ranger that was using a Great sword, he was doing melee not attacking from distance, so it was a melee fight, with his damage and the pet damage i was suffering a lot fo damage mostly from his pet, but not only that, he actually had a lot of sustain he was recovering his life a lot, and eventually i died, this was just so disappointign because how a ranger can be better at melee than a warrior, really warriors are terrible, i cant think anything worse, even if you play them good you are at a lot of disadvantages, and you know something its really wrong when a long range class can beat you in a melee combat, this can not be right.