Guild Wars 2

Knote.2904:

No is one asking to be able to slot t3 traits in t1 slots which is how it was in beta…..

We’re asking to be able to slot ANYt3 traits in ANY t3 slot and vice versa for everything else.

Then it just becomes the stats you want when picking a trait tree.

Yes. There’s never been enough real choice or build depth in this game. I think the fixed weapon and elite skill slots are the real culprit though – the usability of a weapon is entirely pre-determined by the set of skills it has. I feel each weapon needs to have a pool of skills to choose from. These could even be intrinsic to the weapon instead of the class, eg: 2-3 greatsword skills that any class that can equip a GS can choose to slot.

In general I also think traits are too weak and/or too narrowly defined.

Allowing utilities in the elite slot would be another substantial improvement in build depth for minimal development cost.

JonathanSharp.7094:

Sure, but then would you see it? And if there is a different effect for each sigil (or rune set), then don’t you need to make them more distinct than just a slight green weapon glow so you can tell them apart?

• There should be a buff icon for each “momentary” trait and sigil.
• Examples of “momentary”: Sigil of Fire, 5s cooldown. When it is NOT on cooldown, you have a fire icon in the boon bar, which means it is ready.
  Last Stand, 90s cooldown. You have a characteristic trait icon on your boon bar when it’s ready. When the trait activates, the icon disappears for the cooldown duration.
  This will help both players and their enemies, because both will be aware when a trait/sigil is ready or not.
• Many boon icons should be removed, they are unnecessary (like Elementalist’s element icon; making the elemental aura around hands a bit bigger should be good enough).

• Make target’s boon bar bigger to make it easier to read; currently if the target has a lot of boons, it’s quite hard to read them fast and act accordingly.

in my estimation, the best way to encourage more variety would be to nerf the top builds into mediocrity.

i enjoy trying out non-popular builds like turret engi, mantra or condi mesmer, banner warrior, melee ranger, glass staff ele, etc, but once an elite build player comes along and proceeds to obliterate me it seem pointless, especially since 75%+ of pvprs use them.

unfortunately i dont see this happening considering how the pvp community absolutely freaks out over the slightest nerf, so basically the only other option is to buff unused builds which results in an arms race which leads to more gimmicky insta-gib/perma-evade/condi flood/super tank type of builds in order to be on par with the other already strong builds.

there are lots of fun builds to play with, sadly the op cookie-cutter builds denies the ability for them to be a pragmatic option

Tellah.8073:

in my estimation, the best way to encourage more variety would be to nerf the top builds into mediocrity.

i enjoy trying out non-popular builds like turret engi, mantra or condi mesmer, banner warrior, melee ranger, glass staff ele, etc, but once an elite build player comes along and proceeds to obliterate me it seem pointless, especially since 75%+ of pvprs use them.

unfortunately i dont see this happening considering how the pvp community absolutely freaks out over the slightest nerf, so basically the only other option is to buff unused builds which results in an arms race which leads to more gimmicky insta-gib/perma-evade/condi flood/super tank type of builds in order to be on par with the other already strong builds.

there are lots of fun builds to play with, sadly the op cookie-cutter builds denies the ability for them to be a pragmatic option

Yes, instead of making everything fun and interesting. Lets Nerf what is interesting to the ground so it sucks like everything else.

Buys FF14, Hopes for EQNext

No, when you do that you pretty much make people want to play other games, as a man whose played most MMOs, one thing that scares me the most is when I finally build a character I like and things I build were immediately destroyed in a build. It honestly makes me WANT TO QUIT AND NEVER COME BACK, even if I spent 500$ in the gem store, if balance is going to be done this way I will take my money elsewhere.

Knote.2904:

Shar.3402:

Nuka Cola.8520:

Yes, everyone would be picking up the best traits but where is the problem in that? Right now you ‘may’ be forced to take stuff that isn’t very good or not needed because there’s nothing else you want in that tree. If we had free allocation of traits, we would be taking EXACTLY what you need/want and those traits no one uses could get an overhaul from devs because, well, they’re useless. I really don’t understand how could anyone deny this… its not like im asking this to be done for myself but everyone in the game. Build variety per class is below pathetic level when compared to gw1, just sayin.

Free trait allocation was possible in early beta, and it was unbalanced as kitten.

Imagine if you could take, on an elementalist, fresh air as a 10 point trait, or evasive arcana, or whatever.
Or dhuumfire for a necro
Or illusionary persona on mesmer
Or empathic bond on ranger
And the list could go on.

No is one asking to be able to slot t3 traits in t1 slots which is how it was in beta…..

We’re asking to be able to slot ANYt3 traits in ANY t3 slot and vice versa for everything else.

Then it just becomes the stats you want when picking a trait tree.

exactly this.

Daecollo.9578:

I am hoping we get some build variety soon…

Don’t get your hopes up. we had almost 13 months and not even a single skill was added to the game nor did they even mentioned of doing anything with their poor trait trees.

Daecollo.9578:

Tellah.8073:

in my estimation, the best way to encourage more variety would be to nerf the top builds into mediocrity.

i enjoy trying out non-popular builds like turret engi, mantra or condi mesmer, banner warrior, melee ranger, glass staff ele, etc, but once an elite build player comes along and proceeds to obliterate me it seem pointless, especially since 75%+ of pvprs use them.

unfortunately i dont see this happening considering how the pvp community absolutely freaks out over the slightest nerf, so basically the only other option is to buff unused builds which results in an arms race which leads to more gimmicky insta-gib/perma-evade/condi flood/super tank type of builds in order to be on par with the other already strong builds.

there are lots of fun builds to play with, sadly the op cookie-cutter builds denies the ability for them to be a pragmatic option

Yes, instead of making everything fun and interesting. Lets Nerf what is interesting to the ground so it sucks like everything else.

Buys FF14, Hopes for EQNext

No, when you do that you pretty much make people want to play other games, as a man whose played most MMOs, one thing that scares me the most is when I finally build a character I like and things I build were immediately destroyed in a build. It honestly makes me WANT TO QUIT AND NEVER COME BACK, even if I spent 500$ in the gem store, if balance is going to be done this way I will take my money elsewhere.

the only reason so many other builds suck is because 1 build is so good that everyone uses it and it negates any other build from being practical. if this 1 build werent such a shining star than all other builds would have a lot more usage by default.

personally i dont find if fun or interesting fighting endless clones running the same top-tier faceroll build over and over. it makes is so you have to run the same builds or else you will just get butchered repeatedly.

but seeing how you reacted just by the mention of nerfs, there is no way this would be done because of how volatile the pvp community is

I agree with the OP. I love playing about with builds but I have not done so in ages. Why? Because its so restrictive, that 99.99% of builds have already been discovered and everyone knows the ‘best’ ones.

2 ways to shake it up in a major way (without NERFING anything) and bring back LOADS OF FUN again are:-

1) Open up the Elite only skill so you can have any Elite or Utility skill in there. So you could have 4 utility skills no elite. You could be even more DARING and open up the healing slot too. So you could have the choice of any 5 utility skills, still restricted to 1 heal/elite but you could opt to have no elite/heal and have 5 utilitys.

2) Make the 5/15/25 traits part of there respective 1/3 of the trait line. Thus allowing people to choose 6 picks of traits from one trait line when you invest 30 trait points in it. No longer have 3 traits ‘forced’ upon you.

Both those would have a BIG effect but also bring back a lot of FUN.

Winds.3087:

But could you see that trail on, say, little asura hopping around?

No, but that’s a separate problem.

There are three major things that hold back build variety in pvp, far more so than in other game modes: speed/mobility, stun breaks, condi removal. The reality is playing anything without those 3 things sucks. Not just because you can get countered hard, but because it’s not fun getting countered hard. Anet sort of got/addressed this with stuns, but not enough and the other two are still an issue. In spvp those 3 elements (albeit in different flavors) need to be accessible in a wide range of skills/traits for all professions, otherwise the builds that include all 3 will dominate all other builds, every time.

I want to bring to Anet’s attention that their way of balancing stuff (aka nerf every op meta build, leave the rest mostly alone), will in the end leave 0 viable builds open. I loved gw1 cause certain professions (ritualist, necromancer), had lots of option that ALL were viable. In gw2 that is much harder. I had at certain points decided ‘yay i found the profession i love, and i’ll stick completely with it, legendary focus and all that soulbound stuff’. Then the nerfs came. Confusion nerf to mesmer, was the biggest one for me. That simply 100% destroyed condition mesmer for me. While you guys may look at it as viable, it’s not really good. This nerf may have balanced the game a bit. But it also killed a build. And you killed lots of other builds with it.

Say the game, at launch had 20 viable builds per profession. I would say there’s only 10 (50%) of them left, on some profession even worse. Nerfing even more will make it worse.

TL:DR Anet time for nerfing is over (unless really needed, like ‘maybe’ for skullcrack and healing signet or perma stealth). It’s time to sit, and boost all the Underpowered stuff instead looks at rangers, looks at guardian weapon variation, looks at necro trait, looks at engie auto attacks. Nerf time, or ‘kill build’, time is over.

Julius.1094:

There are three major things that hold back build variety in pvp, far more so than in other game modes: speed/mobility, stun breaks, condi removal. The reality is playing anything without those 3 things sucks. Not just because you can get countered hard, but because it’s not fun getting countered hard. Anet sort of got/addressed this with stuns, but not enough and the other two are still an issue. In spvp those 3 elements (albeit in different flavors) need to be accessible in a wide range of skills/traits for all professions, otherwise the builds that include all 3 will dominate all other builds, every time.

This is just a consequence from dropping monks out and giving a kittenty downed state gimmick instead.

I must say I was today checking up tournament builds for Engineer and Mesmer. Two classes I enjoy playing in PvP. Mesmer builds were all the same and Engineer builds had like one or two skills different, but usualy the same traits.

Something is wrong here. But I think its no Monk in this game. On one hand it seems cool but on other hand you need to have some defensive skills, condition removal, stun breaker etc. You know what I mean. And because of that you NEED to have some skills there, so its limiting, a lot, your build.

Julius.1094:

There are three major things that hold back build variety in pvp, far more so than in other game modes: speed/mobility, stun breaks, condi removal. The reality is playing anything without those 3 things sucks. Not just because you can get countered hard, but because it’s not fun getting countered hard. Anet sort of got/addressed this with stuns, but not enough and the other two are still an issue. In spvp those 3 elements (albeit in different flavors) need to be accessible in a wide range of skills/traits for all professions, otherwise the builds that include all 3 will dominate all other builds, every time.

This. You actually have very little choice with respect to skills. The only real freedom you have is with utilities, but you need speed, stun breaks, and condi removal. You’re gonna have to dedicate at least one of your 3 utilities to these, maybe two (with traits, teammates or weapon skills taking up the slack). You’re left with really few options.

Lord Kuru.3685:

Julius.1094:

There are three major things that hold back build variety in pvp, far more so than in other game modes: speed/mobility, stun breaks, condi removal. The reality is playing anything without those 3 things sucks. Not just because you can get countered hard, but because it’s not fun getting countered hard. Anet sort of got/addressed this with stuns, but not enough and the other two are still an issue. In spvp those 3 elements (albeit in different flavors) need to be accessible in a wide range of skills/traits for all professions, otherwise the builds that include all 3 will dominate all other builds, every time.

This. You actually have very little choice with respect to skills. The only real freedom you have is with utilities, but you need speed, stun breaks, and condi removal. You’re gonna have to dedicate at least one of your 3 utilities to these, maybe two (with traits, teammates or weapon skills taking up the slack). You’re left with really few options.

Classes need a wider acess to those 3 aspects but in lower durations to separate skillful use from spammed use (which gets punished this way).

Think about a higher access to stability but very low duration: 1-2-seconds, rewarding skillful timing and prediction.

This is what Guild Wars 2 PvP needs. Low duration, high impact skills/boon duration. This is what will distinguish good players from the BEST players. This would give GW2 the much desired increased skill cap and skill floor.

Quickfoot Katana.8642:

Lord Kuru.3685:

Julius.1094:

There are three major things that hold back build variety in pvp, far more so than in other game modes: speed/mobility, stun breaks, condi removal. The reality is playing anything without those 3 things sucks. Not just because you can get countered hard, but because it’s not fun getting countered hard. Anet sort of got/addressed this with stuns, but not enough and the other two are still an issue. In spvp those 3 elements (albeit in different flavors) need to be accessible in a wide range of skills/traits for all professions, otherwise the builds that include all 3 will dominate all other builds, every time.

This. You actually have very little choice with respect to skills. The only real freedom you have is with utilities, but you need speed, stun breaks, and condi removal. You’re gonna have to dedicate at least one of your 3 utilities to these, maybe two (with traits, teammates or weapon skills taking up the slack). You’re left with really few options.

Classes need a wider acess to those 3 aspects but in lower durations to separate skillful use from spammed use (which gets punished this way).

Think about a higher access to stability but very low duration: 1-2-seconds, rewarding skillful timing and prediction.

This is what Guild Wars 2 PvP needs. Low duration, high impact skills/boon duration. This is what will distinguish good players from the BEST players. This would give GW2 the much desired increased skill cap and skill floor.

I’d love to see more skillful play than the spam-a-palooza that’s been going on…

Unfortunately they are agaisnt splitting PvP and PvE, so this kind of stuff aint gonna happen, which is a shame…