Guild Wars 2

First I want to say I am a player who likes to pvp, I started this game with pvp and when I reached rank 30 in pvp I still didn’t discovered pve or did try to get in pve. I am not here to say I am good as a pvp player I am here to point some of the things I found and I am discontent with. People can agree with me but as anyone I can have my own opinion and I can say it as long as we are free.
I played spvp, tpvp and after I level up one of my chars went into WvW as well.
As I said in the title I dont find tpvp players to be pro or top pvp players in this game, is something that after a month from the start of this game I started to read on forums that if you want to be pro you need to be in tpvp.
I went to tpvp and this is what I found:
-in tpvp you have a whole team behind you
-your team communicate and the management as a unit is really good
-when in trouble always call for help
-killing npc and capping points gives you the victory
I went with a pug teams and with premade teams and boy is a big difference: premades have far superior communication between them and the strategy they apply is far superior but in the same time if you look at the single pvp player you will find interesting differences as well, fighting in a pug team makes you be on your best skills, because mostly pug team doesn’t communicate and when you fighting for a point or try to get the npc there is no help and no team mate you can call, unless you take 2-3 s to write and then you will be dead for sure.
As a single pvp player you need to be ready to win or die in spvp, especially when you don’t go with the zerg. Many “pro” tpvp players find spvp for kids or not important and this is because when they go in spvp there is no team behind them that they know so well, there is no one to call and fighting more than 2-3 people is something new to them and of course that is no “pro”.
Myself, I find spvp as the best way to train your skills, improving your speed, decision taking when you need to fight many enemies, trying to stay alive as long as you can in that mess.
Regarding pvp in this game I don’t find it as a true pvp.
I mean “pro” tpvp players want ladder and ranking to see how good they are.
What you want to see? How many npc did you killed or how many points did you capped? Because most of the points you get in pvp are from these, you get only 5 points for killing a player and that’s it, nothing compared to the points you get from npc and capping.
Guild Wars pvp should be more like 15 points for killing players and 5 points for the pve work like npc and points, then you will see how good as a pvp player you are.
You say team pvp is not encouraged in this game witch I find totally wrong, this is all this game is doing, premade tpvp teams are doing great because its all about team work, zerg fest is doing great in spvp because team work is doing a good job, you get points only if you hit a dying player a couple of times in a zerg team. Maybe a good idea should be that only one player from a group who killed an enemy should get the points and that player should do a balance of damage and number of skills on that enemy.
My point of my rant is that you should stop calling yourself “pro” tpvp player and point at the spvp and WvW players as kids or people who should not be called pvp players. There are pvp players that play only spvp or WvW and can wash the floor with a premade tpvp pro player.
When you wont have a team behind you then you can call yourself good. Fighting in spvp, tpvp and WvW can make you much better than fighting all day in tpvp with a premade team, doing same things, killing npc, capping points. Go alone and test yourself against zergs in spvp an WvW and when npc and caping points wont count so much in the rating of a player at the end of the map then you will be a pvp player, until then stop asking for ladder and ranking in pvp.
And as last, sorry for my English, its not my first languange and regarding the trolls that want to teach me how to write in English I can say only that I speak and write 4 languages, how many languages do you know except English? Stop behaving all mighty only because English is your first language.

where do you see players call themselfs “pro”?

thre are some players and teams that are good, but noone of them is “pro”. Not yet and till GW2 will become e-sport game, im pretty sure we still haven´t seen the real dragons..

Boy, that’s a huge wall of rage^
(fisrt off – I’m not a pro, I’m working on building my team atm, and English is not my 1st language as well)

But let me tell you one little thing, that you probably missed while playing spvp things:

tPVP in this game is based totally on Team work. You stated that premade groups always win against pug. So, what is wrong here? Why do you think that Only a personal skill should be the one that matters in team game?
I’ve seen this type of players in team games like DoTa. While they are able to take insane amounts of kills in pug games, but totally losing to decent premade team. This is just because in these kinds of games only a good teams should take a victories.

Imagine a football game Team VS Pug. Then imagine the rage of solo football player that constantly losing to a regular football teams As easy as that.

Cheers,

Madian

Madian this is also what I am saying, as a team of course you need to go to play tpvp but as a single pvp player you need to try all types of pvp and spvp for me as I said makes you react faster.
Just look around the forum and you will see so many players saying that if you want to be pro go play tpvp with premade teams. That doens’t make you as 1 person good at pvp, of course it will make you a better team player in the future.
There was a post a few days ago when the maker of the topic was saying that the only pro pvp players were only the ones in tpvp and the WvW players are hiting doors players and spvp players are kids.
If you look around on the forum you will find many players who think the same as the player I stated above witch I find totally wrong.

Posting in epic post :O :O :O :-D

Every Tpvp player who can compete in paids will destroy !!! any spvp player in every aspect which matters.
1vs1 all clases. 1vs1 both players same clas. 2vs2. Teamfight 5vs5 or 4vs4… doesnt matter
spvp and wvw is a joke. + rank 30 !!! Is a joke… get on tpvp players lvl first…

epic tread :-D

Julival.4318:

and the WvW players are hiting doors.

Thats true.

Julival.4318:

Madian this is also what I am saying, as a team of course you need to go to play tpvp but as a single pvp player you need to try all types of pvp and spvp for me as I said makes you react faster.
Just look around the forum and you will see so many players saying that if you want to be pro go play tpvp with premade teams. That doens’t make you as 1 person good at pvp, of course it will make you a better team player in the future.
There was a post a few days ago when the maker of the topic was saying that the only pro pvp players were only the ones in tpvp and the WvW players are hiting doors players and spvp players are kids.
If you look around on the forum you will find many players who think the same as the player I stated above witch I find totally wrong.

Ah, I just don’t bother myself reading those silly threads about “Lol, check how awesome I am because I’m pro and never play WvW”. It’s really hard to determine who’s better – sPVP’ers, tPVP’ers or WvW’ers at this point. This is not a Starcraft, not DoTa, not Quake. The game at least should grow a little, become a tradition more than just a game to be considered as an e-sport discipline, it’s only a few months old, for real.

Personally I don’t mind any of these game modes, really. No matter how successfully I can play, I never call myself pro, and I never listen to self promoted pro’s, unless I see how really good particular player is.

Pay no mind on silly opinions, make your own ones, the grass will be greener

Lol, nice example of silly post:

Dexxer.3174:

Posting in epic post :O :O :O :-D
…
blah blah…
spvp and wvw is a joke. + rank 30 !!! Is a joke… get on tpvp players lvl first…
…

This is exactly what I mean

Dexxer.3174:

Posting in epic post :O :O :O :-D
…
blah blah…
spvp and wvw is a joke. + rank 30 !!! Is a joke… get on tpvp players lvl first…
…

Fuzion.7613

Julival.4318:

and the WvW players are hiting doors.

Thats true.

Well Madian, now you get my point:)
You will find good pvp players playing spvp, tpvp and WvW. You can’t call names a WvW player or spvp player, not until you face him in 1vs1 and beat him.
As I said tpvp is not a true pvp either, killing npc and capping points its not really pvp.

I am all for free speech and whatnot.
But with that said, what the kitten is the reason for this post? Is it just the OP getting crushed in hot-joins needing to vent some rage or is it that he can’t win free tournaments with pugs that is the root cause for this?

And to be fair, I have yet to see a single one of the members of the top teams go out and brag (for lack of a better word) about their skill.
And I am pretty sure that although teamwork and communication is key in PtPvP I doubt the team will win because of it, personal skill is still the very key to success.
You can communicate and back each other up as much as you want, if you lose the fights you are gonna lose the match.

This is kind of the reason why so many (including me) consider the PvP communities being the whiniest bunch of babies on the internet..(no offense, just personal opinion).

Julival.4318:

As I said tpvp is not a true pvp either, killing npc and capping points its not really pvp.

Could kind of not be more wrong. PvP is the genre of gameplay that represents any kind of Player versus Player. So while you do fight against NPC’s and have to capture points the very core feature of it is still to kill players. It’s just that you actually have to use tactics and be smart about it with this new style.

With your reasoning games like SC2, LoL, HoN, Dota etc etc is not PvP games. The term PvP does not derive from the MMO style of team deathmatch, just FYI.

For the most part I have to agree with the OP. I am also tired of tPvP players coming in to hot join claiming to be so great in comparison and how no hot join player would ever “last” in tPvP.

Look I understand you must have some type of talent but like the OP mentioned, you are a team in tPvP. For the most part it’s about your team, your team’s strategy and not necessarily always about how good YOU are as a player.

So as a team member you play your character in a build based on the strategy your team wants to use. So lets say you are the bunker Guardian for your tPvP team or you are the ‘glass cannon’ Thief for your tPvP team. So what exactly are you doing with your character? You are playing one or two single builds and never exposing yourself to actually learning how to fully play that class in PvP.

Now take the hot join rank 40+ Thief that has played 1500+ games. Over that amount of games they have mastered a S/D dazelock build, P/D cond. build, and of course D/D dps builds. They have also mastered the agility and tricks of the Short Bow and a complete knowledge of the maps. Remember this player is on a small map vs a team of 8 playing through and adapting to situations that would never come up in “pro” tPvP. Even then to match the tPvP mentality they roam and 1v1 bunker built players of all different classes for points. They have played 1500+ matches having to play vs all the classes of all different builds of all different player skill levels.

To be fair hot join does have a fair percentage of new players and flat out bad players. I am sure there are rank 30+ players that only achieved so playing in a zerg whacking downed players. I also understand knowing how to play as a TEAM and being able to follow and to successfully execute a strategy is a skill in and of itself. But to claim EVERYONE who dedicates themselves to playing hot join or wvw is a bad PvP player and that only tPvP players are the creme de la creme of the GW2 PvP community is just plain ignorant to state.

@ Bohab: I did not read the whole wall of text, so I am sorry if I am taking you a bit out of context. But where do you get this part “I am also tired of tPvP players coming in to hot join claiming to be so great in comparison and how no hot join player would ever “last” in tPvP.” from?

Granted I don’t hot-join much these days. But I have yet to see a single person go on like this in hot-joins. Kitten me, I’ve been in hot-joins for up to an hour with the same people not seeing a single word uttered in /team or /map.

Quite the funny rant there.
But I’ll just focus on the one comment that this game is ‘all burst and no skill’
Have you actually watched two skilled thieves verse?
I’ll tell you right now—no r40+ thief I’ve ever seen just sits there and eats full backstab combos.
It usually comes down to 15-20 second duels mostly utilizing the shortbow. Whoever can manage their evades/initiative/stealths more skillfully wins.
I don’t think there is anything quite as fun and intense in this or any mmo.
I wish there were more 40+ thieves out there so I could experience this more often and become a better player. Shoutout to Deeja and Payne.
Secondly, I’ll let you in on this little secret. Some may consider it an exploit, but there’s this npc in the mists where you can buy (for free) amulets to nearly double your health pool. Try replacing your glass-fail amulet with it. This way even if you play casually and can’t stunbreak/blind/protection/retal/block/dodge/invuln yourself out of a backstab burst, you can still live through it with half your health remaining and continue to swat away that annoying little thief buzzing at your back.

Although as far as the main point I feel you were trying to get across, that tPvP=“skilled” and sPvP/WvW=“newbs” is somewhat true and yet false.
tPvP doesn’t represent individual skill. Neither does sPvP or WvW.
Most players who strive to become the best they can however strive for competition and reward. This is where free and paid tournaments come in. The (not so much “pro”, but rather “competitive”) players find and build upon eachother. You don’t see CLG for example scrimming against 1200 elo friendlist pug groups in normal games do you? Ofcourse not! Do I want to play hotjoins all day and stomp r15 casual players (~90% of sPvPers)? Well the glory farming is nice but do I enjoy it and does it help me grow as a player? Nope. Will I play solo/duo queue ranked 5v5 when it comes out? Kitten Yeah! I can’t wait!

Tl;dr: Where competition is found: skill is built, rivalries and friendships are made, and the game grows as a whole.

Rythgar.2896:

@ Bohab: I did not read the whole wall of text, so I am sorry if I am taking you a bit out of context. But where do you get this part “I am also tired of tPvP players coming in to hot join claiming to be so great in comparison and how no hot join player would ever “last” in tPvP.” from?

Granted I don’t hot-join much these days. But I have yet to see a single person go on like this in hot-joins. Kitten me, I’ve been in hot-joins for up to an hour with the same people not seeing a single word uttered in /team or /map.

I get it from experience of playing hot joins. I am that player I describe in my post. I have played many games and all too often some headstrong tPvP will join and be pissed at me claiming I would never have what it takes to tPvP. They have no respect for my talent as a player just because I’m in a hot join game. To have that mentality makes them look completely ignorant. Are all tPvP players like this? Of course not! But keep in mind I’m speaking on behalf of the topic of this thread.

Bohab.7825:

I get it from experience of playing hot joins. I am that player I describe in my post. I have played many games and all too often some headstrong tPvP will join and be pissed at me claiming I would never have what it takes to tPvP. They have no respect for my talent as a player just because I’m in a hot join game. To have that mentality makes them look completely ignorant. Are all tPvP players like this? Of course not! But keep in mind I’m speaking on behalf of the topic of this thread.

You and the OP is the very first to ever mention/say this as far as I know. So I’m gonna guess it is a very rare thing. Feels kinda weak to rant at the whole tPvP community because some/a few people who consider themselves being “cut of better cloth” down-talks you :p

Still, always a first for everything!

Rythgar.2896:

You and the OP is the very first to ever mention/say this as far as I know. So I’m gonna guess it is a very rare thing. Feels kinda weak to rant at the whole tPvP community because some/a few people who consider themselves being “cut of better cloth” down-talks you :p

Still, always a first for everything!

I don’t post nor complain all too often. I saw this thread and decided to comment. Just sharing my experience and opinion on the topic.

Lol… an sPvP all-star thinking he is better than guilded “pro” tPvPers. Clearly you have never played tPvP at any high level. These “pro” players you speak of, would no doubt beat you 1v1, in fact, you could clone yourself, play two characters at the same time, and they would win 1v2.

Niptease.8971:

Lol… an sPvP all-star thinking he is better than guilded “pro” tPvPers. Clearly you have never played tPvP at any high level. These “pro” players you speak of, would no doubt beat you 1v1, in fact, you could clone yourself, play two characters at the same time, and they would win 1v2.

That’s fine. You’re welcomed to that opinion however I do not agree.

Niptease.8971:

Lol… an sPvP all-star thinking he is better than guilded “pro” tPvPers. Clearly you have never played tPvP at any high level. These “pro” players you speak of, would no doubt beat you 1v1, in fact, you could clone yourself, play two characters at the same time, and they would win 1v2.

Being a good team player does not translate to being a good soloist. True tPvP is competitive, but playing there does not reflect on one’s skill as a duelist, as a player who always plays teams, puts less time into perfecting his/her personal skills. It is entirely possible that a tPvP can crumble without the support of his/her team.

As mentioned by another poster, tpvp isn’t really a representation of individual skill.

The skill cap on all classes is way too low because they’re fairly simplistic in terms of number of abilities and the range of actions that a player can accomplish with those abilities (comparatively speaking, in relation to past MMO’s). Even team fights are mostly AoE fests where people who aren’t being focused take excessive splash damage from nearly every offensive ability in the game, while the lack of hard support classes means that you can train all damage and all cc on the same person without really having to worry about controlling anybody else or executing complicated swaps. Lack of cast bars and target of target further reduces individual skill cap as well.

So really, the gap between a player who hits r40 doing nothing but tourneys and a player who hits r40 doing nothing but hotjoins is basically non-existent in the context of 1v1’s assuming neither player has downs and the hotjoin guy watches streams occasionally to stay up to date with builds, rotations, and tricks for any given class in the most current meta.

The real difference between the two players is going to come from their ability to rotate, communicate, coordinate, position properly, and understand the maps well enough to function effectively in a team.

IMO anyways.

i r pros tpvp warrior.

all hail pro tpvp warrior rawr rawr 100b killshot in .5 seconds uded i got skillz

Dual.8953:

Niptease.8971:

Lol… an sPvP all-star thinking he is better than guilded “pro” tPvPers. Clearly you have never played tPvP at any high level. These “pro” players you speak of, would no doubt beat you 1v1, in fact, you could clone yourself, play two characters at the same time, and they would win 1v2.

Being a good team player does not translate to being a good soloist. True tPvP is competitive, but playing there does not reflect on one’s skill as a duelist, as a player who always plays teams, puts less time into perfecting his/her personal skills. It is entirely possible that a tPvP can crumble without the support of his/her team.

Most of these good team players, are also excellent solo players, perhaps the best. For the most part, their knowledge of the game greatly exceeds those who only play 8v8 zergs.

Dual.8953:

Niptease.8971:

Lol… an sPvP all-star thinking he is better than guilded “pro” tPvPers. Clearly you have never played tPvP at any high level. These “pro” players you speak of, would no doubt beat you 1v1, in fact, you could clone yourself, play two characters at the same time, and they would win 1v2.

Being a good team player does not translate to being a good soloist. True tPvP is competitive, but playing there does not reflect on one’s skill as a duelist, as a player who always plays teams, puts less time into perfecting his/her personal skills. It is entirely possible that a tPvP can crumble without the support of his/her team.

This is pretty wrong on a number of levels.

A lot of tPvP is about roaming / holding your own until backup arrives or beating someone out 1v1 to quickly neutralize a point.

tPvPers need to excel at soloing as well as pointing out team battle abilities.

There really isn’t a comparison here, tPvP does take more knowledge, twitch and understanding than a standard sPvP player.

PvP is not = Killing other people. Really man, killing something, expec in tPvP is just one part of the work, and not even the most important… Playing good doesn’t mean that you kill more, it means that you can understand the game, knowing where your mates and other team members are, where to go at the right time and where not…when use treb or when it’s better to leave it and directly support your party and so on. And being able to do things like these on your own before someone calls for you it’s a much bigger difference from bad and good pvp players, much bigger than killing more things around…. Soloing points 1vs1 doesn’t mean you are good, if both attacker and defender are high ranks it usually means that you have a better build…or not.

Btw this is my opinion, feel free to say i’m wrong

Playing Hotjoin =/= Skill.
Playing Tpvp =/= Skill.

So? Most skilled players do Tpvp. This “teamwork” you talk about is not a given. It adds another layer of depth to the game that you need to master. With teamwork comes more complex tactics etc.. It brings the play to a whole new level that hotjoin or pug players will never achieve.

Sure WvW players might know some tactics (entirely different tactics tho) but they mostly lack the raw skill of a good PvP player so i don’t wanna talk about that.

Thanks for the laugh TS!

short answer: Teamwork is OP!

Long answer: tPvP uses a different skill set then spvp.. in spvp you cannot rely on other people and most people play for points

in tpvp teams try to synergise with each other and are more likely to play some lvl of support in their builds. that normally means spvp= everyone trying to kill eachother.

tpvp= builds get pigeon holed into “bunkers” “roamers” “team support” im simplifying of course but it is kinda like this, having extra gaming modes would probably make people play some more all around builds and rely on situational awareness rather than.. im a tank i should just stand here mentality :P

Active tpvp players in general will smash the common spvp player period.
However I have facerolled a few of them more than enough times in spvp and I am not actively running tpvp right now.

……So much rage..

Some myths to debunk.

Tpvp’ers that are in the higher tiers have a greater understanding of their class and the game. You may think that they are used to running with 2+ people at all times and I can show you bunker’s,roamer’s, and random stallers where 1 person takes on 2+ people for either a cap, to down a low health player, or to stall for time and let his other teammates meet cap/pincer/escape etc.
Not many Tpvp’ers go to spvp to wave their kitten.
Reason is spvp doesnt really have a meaningful ranking system, or notoriety system, or worthwile rewards.
You can literally join a random game, and never see the same people for the rest of the night as you go from point to point with your zerg..its almost like a controlled wvw scenerio.

Everyone that plays spvp competitevly will at somepoint venture into tpvp.
Tpvp will test your coordination, build, reaction, knowledge, and patience ( if your pugging).

Spvp doesnt really push you to the limits of your best, because their is no ranking, no reputation to uphold, no real strategy besides zerging and counter zerging, no reward to strive for. You get in, have fun, lose a bit, win a bit.

i wouldnt say theres no strategy in spvp, and i certainly wouldnt say spvp’ers are crap etc, but obviously the average level of tourney players is higher, some people however dont have active clans to tpvp with.

TLDR : Op wants deathmatch/slayer mode b/c they lost to bunker class. Hue.

“Pro” players at this point are basically unpaid, full-time beta testers

There is no one that can claim to be a top pro player in GW2 because there is not a rated system and the population is low that actual do paids.

I look at the people claiming to be pro players and as people in WoW that thought they were good farming unrated bgs (same as Tpvp) when rated arenas came out the vast majority of them never did well.

Capture the point, I lead the top team on my server alliance side for a bit in WoW. Other then one or two of people out of 20 rotating players they were just average however we worked as a team communicating well. We faced much better individual players many alot better then myself however we always won because of how we communicated as a team.

When arenas came out deathmatch style rated matches the majority of the top capture the points players amounted to nothing because it depended on small scale individual skill first and communication second.

Capture the node depends on communication first individual skill second, all you need is a good leader calling tactics based on the information incoming and a team will do well individual skill can even be on the low side but that does not matter in capture the flag game modes.

If you think you are a top GW2 Tpvp player its likely you are not good at all unless you have been top in other MMO/Games like WoW arena or GW1 gold trim when people actually played the game.

Xom.9264:

If you think you are a top GW2 Tpvp player its likely you are not good at all unless you have been top in other MMO/Games like WoW arena or GW1 gold trim when people actually played the game.

I would go one step further and say, if you think you are a top GW2 Tpvp player you are delusional. This is true for two reasons: one, the proportion of the population playing GW2 pTpvp is ridiculously tiny and two, there is no drive to create a competitive scene which breeds “pro” pvp players.

The elitists will always be found in the most competetive forms of play.
In this game the ‘most’ competetive form is paid tournaments.
That’s where the best should be. Among the best, there will be quite a few with an elitist mentality.
This is unavoidable, and at the same time this is NOT true for ALL tpvp’ers.

Than you have the ones acting elitist that aren’t holding their own in paid tournies as good as they figured they would.
You can find several of these in free tournies.
Luckily, again, this is NOT to be taken as a general rule.

I find that the slightly less succesfull elitist players, are actually the worst in mentality.

Any form of competition will create this mentality to a large dgree.
It’s inevitable.
I wouldn’t mind it too much, especially not in Gw2 that really isn’t ready to be called ‘competetive’ yet.
But you can see the same in other games.
Competition draws in a lot of elitist mentality.

And mind you: many of these ‘elitists’ or ’pro’s’ are actually quite good at what they do.
But that’s never a reason to talk down on someone of course.

I have most respect for those that are good, and way better than me, without being an kitten about it

Note: call it ‘elitist’, call it ‘pro’, call it ‘snobbery’… picking on the words itself won’t change it. I think we all recognise one when we see one.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

this game has no esport/cash rewards. anyone who thinks theyre pro need to learn the deffinition of pro…..

Cocodog.2319:

this game has no esport/cash rewards. anyone who thinks theyre pro need to learn the deffinition of pro…..

I’ve been coming back to check out this topic, and i feel that I should clear something up. First, it was the poster who initially referenced pro players. Second, for the most part, “pro” is being used loosely, hence the use of "". We all no there are no pro players…

I don’t think anyone at this point should consider themselves as a “pro” because there is not much to back it up with. At the same time players that only do tpvp(paids) and are constantly winning 1st place aren’t necessarily wrong in calling themselves this. Currently paids are the best you can get in terms of competitive pvp in gw2. If you are winning all the time against the best teams your region has to offer then clearly you play your class extremely well and understand how this game works to the highest level. I prefer to let to community decide who the “pros” are instead of declaring yourself one.