Guild Wars 2

I understand that if you go to any forum of any competitive game, you can find similar atmosphere like here. People will be people and they will, in 90% of cases, blame everyone and everything else for their lack of success.

I truly get that…HOWEVER!

You also must take into consideration how many people plays games like LoL, DOTA 2, OW etc. Although people there also complain more or less for the same things, their player base is consisted of millions of players. That is really important because it shows that with all the negativity, people still want to play those games.

What is the case with GW2? Well, obviously, people do not want to play this game anymore (sPvP). So, whenever you get on that pro high horse of yours and start defending Anet for what they did or did not do to sPvP, just think about with who you will be playing next season. Numbers don’t lie. Just look at the number of matches played in average. Last season top ranked players played above 500 matches each, this season top 2 players played ONLY mandatory 120 matches to be on the leaderboard. I myself have played 4 times less matches this season comparing to last.

So, if you still feel the need to defend Anet and use arguments like “well, there is negativity in every game”, I wish you nice fights with Forest NPC’s in the future.

well i had over 300 S6 now i guess about 50 …. Might try to finish rewards…

I myself didn’t play a lot compared to what i used to ( 50 games maybe) because i experienced bad luck on placements and few following games. However, besides that and some clear balancing problems , i am convinced that there were many efforts made in the pvp environment recently. You have to consider 2 important things :
- The whole system has changed a year and half ago. That’s not so easy to find a system to keep players that made over 5k games in the past then
- You cannot really compare GW2 to overwatch or Dota since these are mainly based on PvP, while Gw2 has a PvE part principally. Even GW1 on golden age didn’t have that many players on comparison.

I agree that a lot of things are good. The system needs some kickstarter and the poll to lock classes had been a chance to improve but … Don´t focus on the top 1%.

In my opinion, the pvp is still fun. It is just a game, end of the story.

If you are a top player, you recive a Tittle… well, for me, it is not a great trophy. I do not want to get angry and salty for a tittle.

Keep playing while it is worthy and have fun.

There was a low total games played on individual accounts because many people played alt accounts this season for the sake of smurfing and match manipulation. So a single player could have been playing 3 accounts or more this season, dividing his total games played amongst three 3 different accounts.

The problem this season wasn’t total matches played, it was that it was too rewarding to run alt accounts and manipulate match making and their out comes.

Trevor Boyer.6524:

The problem this season wasn’t total matches played, it was that it was too rewarding to run alt accounts and manipulate match making and their out comes.

I think that many forum posts indicate that there really was a problem with total matches played and that population decreased significantly. And the very fact that it is well known that smurfing has become extremely profitable thing to do should be a clue about current state of sPvP.

Anyway, just to clear up some things. When I said pro players, I didn’t mean actual ESL players. I meant those self-entitled low plat guys, who took upon themselves to explain to all others, trying to make legitimate arguments what is wrong in the game, that everything is ok and that it’s just that those players are bad (git gud argument). ESL players showed us how they feel about the game when they started leaving to play other games.

Also, I am not comparing GW2 to LoL or OW as games. I am comparing atmosphere on the forums and people complaining, which all these games share, which then some people use as argument that nothing is wrong because those games also have people crying all over forums. While that obviously is true, still, like I already said, people still want to play those games, so yes, there is crucial difference whether you want to admit it or not.

i dont think theres anymore so called pro in gw2, none of them gets paid to play this game anymore.

So… You’re making a thread to tell the players who genuinely enjoy the game as it is to stop saying they enjoy the game as it is when other players are saying that they don’t enjoy the game as it is because obviously™ the vast majority of players don’t enjoy the game as it is ?

More seriously though, there isn’t 2 camps of Anet-blind-fanboys and players wanting change. For each arguments, there will be people having varied opinions regardless of where they stand. Not everyone enjoys the same thing and everyone’s ‘perfect world’ is different.

I do not know of a single pro, defending ArenaNet.

People are defending Anet?

Spoichiche.1290:

So… You’re making a thread to tell the players who genuinely enjoy the game as it is to stop saying they enjoy the game as it is when other players are saying that they don’t enjoy the game as it is because obviously™ the vast majority of players don’t enjoy the game as it is ?

More seriously though, there isn’t 2 camps of Anet-blind-fanboys and players wanting change. For each arguments, there will be people having varied opinions regardless of where they stand. Not everyone enjoys the same thing and everyone’s ‘perfect world’ is different.

New people who have just started to PvP may very well enjoy it but to the people who aren’t new, they have a better time to reflect upon, a comparison to make between the games current state and previous state.

the numbers on the leaderboards actually do lie because people are smurfing. Smurfing on the other hand is only logical, when you are in a comfortable spot on the leaderboards because once your rating is high enough, the risk of losing a match is not worth the reward of winning a match. If you are rank 1 there is no reason to play more than the minimum games. If you are 2nd you could try to get rank 1, but when you have to win 3-5 matches to make up for 1 loss, you are probably better off being just 2nd.

Nonetheless overall numbers have certainly decreased.

Erzian.5218:

the numbers on the leaderboards actually do lie because people are smurfing. Smurfing on the other hand is only logical, when you are in a comfortable spot on the leaderboards because once your rating is high enough, the risk of losing a match is not worth the reward of winning a match. If you are rank 1 there is no reason to play more than the minimum games. If you are 2nd you could try to get rank 1, but when you have to win 3-5 matches to make up for 1 loss, you are probably better off being just 2nd.

Nonetheless overall numbers have certainly decreased.

Smurfing yet we had what… one player in legend this season? Match manipulation and smurfing claims running rampant yet only one person can get to legend? Even if smurfing and match manipulation was as rampant as the forum posts claims (I personally can’t weigh in on either side as I personally haven’t witnessed it) we have a single person…. (who could probably have gotten to legend while watching TV considering the people I saw in high gold and plat this season)….. sitting in legend….I don’t think its as big an issue as its made out to be.

The issue is a numbers issue first. All the other issues start there and multiply because a lot of the fixes to other issues rely on numbers. The PVP scene is bleeding out and as a result the quality is going further and further down hill. Despite all the hate pointed towards the ESL concept high level players who create content are a vital part of keeping any games “competitive scene” alive. No matter how big, small, hardcore, or casual it is they helped build this games PVP and were instrumental in keeping it alive. Anets lack of communication with no only the general playerbase but a portion of the playerbase that singlehandedly acted as a support pillar for this game mode caused them to leave. Now we are facing the mass exodus of players that are following them leaving the game mode a mess.

sephiroth.4217:

People are defending Anet?

Spoichiche.1290:

So… You’re making a thread to tell the players who genuinely enjoy the game as it is to stop saying they enjoy the game as it is when other players are saying that they don’t enjoy the game as it is because obviously™ the vast majority of players don’t enjoy the game as it is ?

More seriously though, there isn’t 2 camps of Anet-blind-fanboys and players wanting change. For each arguments, there will be people having varied opinions regardless of where they stand. Not everyone enjoys the same thing and everyone’s ‘perfect world’ is different.

New people who have just started to PvP may very well enjoy it but to the people who aren’t new, they have a better time to reflect upon, a comparison to make between the games current state and previous state.

Well the reasons for that “reflection” are much harder to quantify then as stated. When a game like railraod tycoon came out, I played the thing to death. The second iteration was good as well but time the third came out it lost its lustre. This does not mean RR Tycoon 1 was the better game.

The nature of PvP and WvW in the GW2 context is that people have already spent many thousands of hours breaking down the skills and tryng to learn what works best with what and which builds have the maximum potential to defeat another given build.

To the new player this is all new so it retains that lustre. To the old player it is a "been there done that " mindset. If a persons only focus is the win and not trying out different things just for the sake of the challenge or because it might be more fun , than there going to be much less “game” overall and when speaking to PvP players are very often mixed in with different types of players ie those who focus on winning which can lead to acrimony.

This is something that is not unique to GW2. It happens in the real world too where some want to play a sport to have fun where the focus is just on the play and others want to play sports just to win where the focus the trophy. Mixing the two types together often does not work out very well.

This is not so much an ANET problem as it a people problem. This does not mean there something WRONG with those people, it only means we are all different and have different likes and it hard to develop a team based online game that can appeal to all .

babazhook.6805:

sephiroth.4217:

People are defending Anet?

Spoichiche.1290:

So… You’re making a thread to tell the players who genuinely enjoy the game as it is to stop saying they enjoy the game as it is when other players are saying that they don’t enjoy the game as it is because obviously™ the vast majority of players don’t enjoy the game as it is ?

More seriously though, there isn’t 2 camps of Anet-blind-fanboys and players wanting change. For each arguments, there will be people having varied opinions regardless of where they stand. Not everyone enjoys the same thing and everyone’s ‘perfect world’ is different.

New people who have just started to PvP may very well enjoy it but to the people who aren’t new, they have a better time to reflect upon, a comparison to make between the games current state and previous state.

Well the reasons for that “reflection” are much harder to quantify then as stated. When a game like railraod tycoon came out, I played the thing to death. The second iteration was good as well but time the third came out it lost its lustre. This does not mean RR Tycoon 1 was the better game.

The nature of PvP and WvW in the GW2 context is that people have already spent many thousands of hours breaking down the skills and tryng to learn what works best with what and which builds have the maximum potential to defeat another given build.

To the new player this is all new so it retains that lustre. To the old player it is a "been there done that " mindset. If a persons only focus is the win and not trying out different things just for the sake of the challenge or because it might be more fun , than there going to be much less “game” overall and when speaking to PvP players are very often mixed in with different types of players ie those who focus on winning which can lead to acrimony.

This is something that is not unique to GW2. It happens in the real world too where some want to play a sport to have fun where the focus is just on the play and others want to play sports just to win where the focus the trophy. Mixing the two types together often does not work out very well.

This is not so much an ANET problem as it a people problem. This does not mean there something WRONG with those people, it only means we are all different and have different likes and it hard to develop a team based online game that can appeal to all .

Ok….. I fail to see the relevance, but sure!

babazhook.6805:

sephiroth.4217:

People are defending Anet?

Spoichiche.1290:

So… You’re making a thread to tell the players who genuinely enjoy the game as it is to stop saying they enjoy the game as it is when other players are saying that they don’t enjoy the game as it is because obviously™ the vast majority of players don’t enjoy the game as it is ?

More seriously though, there isn’t 2 camps of Anet-blind-fanboys and players wanting change. For each arguments, there will be people having varied opinions regardless of where they stand. Not everyone enjoys the same thing and everyone’s ‘perfect world’ is different.

New people who have just started to PvP may very well enjoy it but to the people who aren’t new, they have a better time to reflect upon, a comparison to make between the games current state and previous state.

Well the reasons for that “reflection” are much harder to quantify then as stated. When a game like railraod tycoon came out, I played the thing to death. The second iteration was good as well but time the third came out it lost its lustre. This does not mean RR Tycoon 1 was the better game.

The nature of PvP and WvW in the GW2 context is that people have already spent many thousands of hours breaking down the skills and tryng to learn what works best with what and which builds have the maximum potential to defeat another given build.

To the new player this is all new so it retains that lustre. To the old player it is a "been there done that " mindset. If a persons only focus is the win and not trying out different things just for the sake of the challenge or because it might be more fun , than there going to be much less “game” overall and when speaking to PvP players are very often mixed in with different types of players ie those who focus on winning which can lead to acrimony.

This is something that is not unique to GW2. It happens in the real world too where some want to play a sport to have fun where the focus is just on the play and others want to play sports just to win where the focus the trophy. Mixing the two types together often does not work out very well.

This is not so much an ANET problem as it a people problem. This does not mean there something WRONG with those people, it only means we are all different and have different likes and it hard to develop a team based online game that can appeal to all .

I suggest a easy mitigator to this problem, the same one competitive PvP games use. Make it take more then 2 hours to be able to participate in Ranked/Competitive matches, more like 40 plus hours or about a hundred hours.

This is all on ANet and much less a people problem. Because ANet decided to go against the grain and actively mix both casual and competitive players in a competitive mode. Then on top of it didn’t keep their competitive mode clean at all. This is what relevant competitive PvP games do not do.

They make you put in the massive amounts of man hours. In order to gain experience and limit the ease of players getting smurfs that throws matches in their Competitive mode. ANet did the complete opposite. Led to horrible quality matches. Players got tried of it. Which then started the population crisis. Which then started making matches worst. Which then starts the down-ward cascade.

It seems people are starting to get more inclined to push the blame on the “people”. So that means ANet will use that as justification to Dev. GW3 with the same failed concept in mind. If there is even a GW3.

TL/DR

Players left their beloved game. Because of the direct developers decisions. And lack of decisions. Had ANet actually managed PvP right. We wouldn’t be here talking about population problems.

So this is my short answer to the OP:

When you play an MMO that offers many game modes like GW, GW2, WoW and others BUT you play only one game mode, it is my belief you set yourself up for burn out or being dissatisfied with changes while others may like the changes.

Longer answer:

It has been my experience when dealing with heavy PvP players, they do not play just one game as you login, do your matches, dailies and such and move to the next game. I played S5 and some of S6 and found WvW to be more exciting and I still do my world bosses and other PvE.

So while you the OP hate on us that like this game YOU can go to the other game’s forums you mention and find the same likes and dislikes you find here. Someone always thinks the particular game they are playing is failing, no one listens to the community and so on.

GW2 is not a PvP only game and to compare to games that are PvP or arena based is unfair as there is a bigger core of people to keep happy here at GW2.

Yes, I would like to see the PvP matchmaking here get better and other improvements. Running from point to point gets boring. However when I reach that state of boredom I have other things to do in this game and though I do not think GW2 will reach the pinnacle of success many PvP or Arena games offer there will always be someone here to PvP.

I don’t think that the sudden disinterest has to do with any form of balance or mm issue.
Many pro players that left, did so because there was absolutely no support for competitive teams any more…No tournaments for over half a year and then ESL wasn’t supported anymore either.

For the rest of us, the game has just become stale. Without a pro-scene and a balance path that did absolutely nothing in terms of meta changes, Seaosn 6 essentially just was Season 5.v2. With the laughable rewards and literally the same meta, people just had no incentive to play.

On the other hand, class-balancing is a bit tricky now. Balance wise (and this is my genuine opinion) the game has never been in a better spot. EVERY single class has at least one build that can be successfully played. NO class is excluded from top tier play due to being considered ‘underpowered’. And that is actually quite something imo.
To preserve this state, Anet has to be very careful when it comes to balance patches, which may be the reason for the weak February one.

Edit: Before I get a kittenstorm of players ‘mimimi’-ing about my balance statement….Yes, some classes could need some ‘fine tuning’, but NO class is over- or underpowered in terms of being ‘broken’ or just ‘unplayable’.

@ usnedward

You completely misjudged my motivation. First of all, I like PvP and that is why I am concerned about it. Considering amount of time I am investing in this game (very low), burn -out is hardly an option for me.

My point was that I understand that in every forum of every game there are same complaining topics. However, there is crucial difference where those games are still popular, while this game mode here is losing players in bulks. Obviously there is something going on here, that is different than in those games and that is why people who like PvP need to understand that something serious needs to change before PvP loses even more players of the very few that are still playing it. Defending Anet and saying how everything is ok will not convince those people to come back and is in that regard not only useless, but even damaging for the community overall.

@ Everyone

I realize that the title is very misleading to many, so I have edited it so you can better understand what I actually meant.

@ AngryBear

Thanks for the clarification. I sympathize with you in that yes, PvP needs work…. and to some of the posts here needs a lot of work. Because S6 was really terrible with the game fixing, smurfing or whatever name someone wants to give it… it left a bad taste in my mouth and I gave up early as there is no point to continue playing when people throw games or DC all the time. They will either fix it or they will have a new PvP crowd.

On the other hand if PvP fails…..well I was merely indicating this game is more than PvP so I do not think GW2 will fail altogether.

Thanks for being gentle in your response :P

AngryBear.8741:

I understand that if you go to any forum of any competitive game, you can find similar atmosphere like here. People will be people and they will, in 90% of cases, blame everyone and everything else for their lack of success.

I truly get that…HOWEVER!

You also must take into consideration how many people plays games like LoL, DOTA 2, OW etc. Although people there also complain more or less for the same things, their player base is consisted of millions of players. That is really important because it shows that with all the negativity, people still want to play those games.

What is the case with GW2? Well, obviously, people do not want to play this game anymore (sPvP). So, whenever you get on that pro high horse of yours and start defending Anet for what they did or did not do to sPvP, just think about with who you will be playing next season. Numbers don’t lie. Just look at the number of matches played in average. Last season top ranked players played above 500 matches each, this season top 2 players played ONLY mandatory 120 matches to be on the leaderboard. I myself have played 4 times less matches this season comparing to last.

So, if you still feel the need to defend Anet and use arguments like “well, there is negativity in every game”, I wish you nice fights with Forest NPC’s in the future.

You’re probably answering to me. Well, just to clarify, my post have been deleted because I used the word “sucks”.

The population is everything!
New player cannot survive in this environment and veteran hate every thing every skill every build are fixed.

Anet need to find out the problem that they already known but dare not to change.

Darth Laa.5782:

I do not know of a single pro, defending ArenaNet.

^This. From what I have heard most of the pros don’t even like this game much anymore.

Most of these “pros” moved on ages ago. GW2 s-pvp is dead compared to what it used to be. And even more dead if you compare it to GW1’s pvp modes. “E-sports” approach simply didn’t work.

it’s also finals season in alot of places.

AngryBear.8741:

I understand that if you go to any forum of any competitive game, you can find similar atmosphere like here.

The difference being this games pvp is actually dead.

It isn’t just nerd rage you see on this forum but ppl actually wanting the game to come back in population. No other competitive pvp game right now has this population issue but GW2 isn’t competitive anymore.

It was impossible with a duo q structure anyway, so what we have left is a pvp mode that doesn’t feel meaningful or impactful especially since the matchmaking is so horrendous cuz we haven’t the players to fill and that just leads to even less players.

The next xpac is the only chance to save pvp. It will increase population by default as xpacs always do and that is where ANet can shine and save pvp. If it fails then it will be more dead than it is now and we’ll all remain with OW, HOTS, or LoL cuz no other MMO has even slightest chance of being as good at pvp than GW2 did.