Guild Wars 2

I’m going to just repost a longer, edited version of what I’ve replied in someone else’s post:

I dont get why everyone is complaining about placement matches. If you realise, placement matches are used in every competitive pvp game and they work well especially when we have solo queue.

Placement matches are for better players to skip the lower ‘ELO hell’ (Glicko in this case), and if you didn’t manage to do that, it just means you’re not as good as you thought you were. Luck is a factor, yes, but it’s a minor factor. You can’t be lucky/unlucky forever (or in this case, very unlikely to be for 10 matches consecutively), that’s not how it works.

Literally, like in dota 2 or HotS, they have solo q placement matches and you notice one trend: the good players always manage to get a better rating at the end of placement matches. This is how smurf accounts are born. They don’t have control over their team mates either, and they are also playing a team game. Go figure.

Of course, no system is perfect and there’s bound to be the occasional outlier where a good player doesn’t get placed appropriately. In that case, it’s just bad luck and you have to climb slowly (and you will if you are better than where you are placed) to your correct division.

Let the people below complain about the conditions below. I don’t think any of us are complaining about good players being able to skip, were complaining about those of us who aren’t as good basically sitting in a cesspool circle there doesn’t seem to be a way out of.

If it’s working for you that’s great, for those of us who are trying to make it work and having trouble or misunderstanding things we want to let the devs know what are issues are.

The only reason we have “placement” matches is because glicko is highly volatile during early matches, so the devs hide our rating so we don’t flip out watching our rating swing all over the place.

Yeah… I guess I shouldn’t have played with my friend. Lost almost every game I played with him, and won every other one. Screwed my rating! :P I guess I understand now why people use an alt account to play ranked with their friends.

Seriously, the only thing that I don’t like is the same that happens in almost every game that consider winning in their rating equation: when people leave a team (and you end up being 4v5 or worse), getting disconnected or getting kicked out of the game for any reason, we lose. Still, it’s not an indicator of our individual skill if we lost 3 games out of 10 with people disconnecting for 3 or 4 mins.

Rating shouldn’t be based on wins or lose but on something else. Let’s face it: these situations where a random player disconnects can happen to almost everyone, but a player shouldn’t be punished for something that is totally out of his control.

But here again, it can happen to everyone so I guess it rounds up somewhere.

Bardly.2571:

Let the people below complain about the conditions below. I don’t think any of us are complaining about good players being able to skip, were complaining about those of us who aren’t as good basically sitting in a cesspool circle there doesn’t seem to be a way out of.

If it’s working for you that’s great, for those of us who are trying to make it work and having trouble or misunderstanding things we want to let the devs know what are issues are.

I don’t really get this. If you understand that you aren’t as good then why are you expecting to constantly climb? Maybe you are in your appropriate division?

I apologize if i sound mean or rude, i don’t mean it and I’m genuinely trying to understand.

pyrocyborg.4162:

Yeah… I guess I shouldn’t have played with my friend. Lost almost every game I played with him, and won every other one. Screwed my rating! :P I guess I understand now why people use an alt account to play ranked with their friends.

Seriously, the only thing that I don’t like is the same that happens in almost every game that consider winning in their rating equation: when people leave a team (and you end up being 4v5 or worse), getting disconnected or getting kicked out of the game for any reason, we lose. Still, it’s not an indicator of our individual skill if we lost 3 games out of 10 with people disconnecting for 3 or 4 mins.

Rating shouldn’t be based on wins or lose but on something else. Let’s face it: these situations where a random player disconnects can happen to almost everyone, but a player shouldn’t be punished for something that is totally out of his control.

Unfortunately, w/l ratio is the tried and tested, established way of determining mmr. I think a suggestion to even the odds of a player abandoning the match would be to give the disadvantaged team some sort of buff to compensate. Or/and to lower mmr loss.

ReaperJr.5967:

Bardly.2571:

Let the people below complain about the conditions below. I don’t think any of us are complaining about good players being able to skip, were complaining about those of us who aren’t as good basically sitting in a cesspool circle there doesn’t seem to be a way out of.

If it’s working for you that’s great, for those of us who are trying to make it work and having trouble or misunderstanding things we want to let the devs know what are issues are.

I don’t really get this. If you understand that you aren’t as good then why are you expecting to constantly climb? Maybe you are in your appropriate division?

I apologize if i sound mean or rude, i don’t mean it and I’m genuinely trying to understand.

You do know this is a team game right? Everyone is accountable, not just 1 person. If this is a dueling game, yes by all means there is no excuse for you not to climb up if you are bad.

ReaperJr.5967:

Bardly.2571:

Let the people below complain about the conditions below. I don’t think any of us are complaining about good players being able to skip, were complaining about those of us who aren’t as good basically sitting in a cesspool circle there doesn’t seem to be a way out of.

If it’s working for you that’s great, for those of us who are trying to make it work and having trouble or misunderstanding things we want to let the devs know what are issues are.

I don’t really get this. If you understand that you aren’t as good then why are you expecting to constantly climb? Maybe you are in your appropriate division?

I apologize if i sound mean or rude, i don’t mean it and I’m genuinely trying to understand.

No offense taken. Because, not being as good as someone who belongs in a ‘Good’ division isn’t the same as being in a division with ‘Bad’ players. There is no space between for the people who have experience, but aren’t the best. Right now were all mashed together with new or bads which makes it hard to not just move up, but keep from moving down on a string of bad matchups.

StickerHappy.8052:

ReaperJr.5967:

Bardly.2571:

Let the people below complain about the conditions below. I don’t think any of us are complaining about good players being able to skip, were complaining about those of us who aren’t as good basically sitting in a cesspool circle there doesn’t seem to be a way out of.

If it’s working for you that’s great, for those of us who are trying to make it work and having trouble or misunderstanding things we want to let the devs know what are issues are.

I don’t really get this. If you understand that you aren’t as good then why are you expecting to constantly climb? Maybe you are in your appropriate division?

I apologize if i sound mean or rude, i don’t mean it and I’m genuinely trying to understand.

You do know this is a team game right? Everyone is accountable, not just 1 person. If this is a dueling game, yes by all means there is no excuse for you not to climb up if you are bad.

Like I’ve said in my original post, so is dota 2/LoL/HotS, you don’t see widespread outrage against the system except for those stuck in the ‘ELO hell’ (which good players have repeatedly climbed out of, they just said it was relatively harder).

StickerHappy.8052:

ReaperJr.5967:

Bardly.2571:

Let the people below complain about the conditions below. I don’t think any of us are complaining about good players being able to skip, were complaining about those of us who aren’t as good basically sitting in a cesspool circle there doesn’t seem to be a way out of.

If it’s working for you that’s great, for those of us who are trying to make it work and having trouble or misunderstanding things we want to let the devs know what are issues are.

I don’t really get this. If you understand that you aren’t as good then why are you expecting to constantly climb? Maybe you are in your appropriate division?

I apologize if i sound mean or rude, i don’t mean it and I’m genuinely trying to understand.

You do know this is a team game right? Everyone is accountable, not just 1 person. If this is a dueling game, yes by all means there is no excuse for you not to climb up if you are bad.

The only common denominator between all your matches is you. Over a large number of games your rating will approach your skill level, even with pugs.

Unless the Illuminanti is conspiring to ruin your rating. Then yeah you’re probably stuck forever.

ReaperJr.5967:

StickerHappy.8052:

ReaperJr.5967:

Bardly.2571:

Let the people below complain about the conditions below. I don’t think any of us are complaining about good players being able to skip, were complaining about those of us who aren’t as good basically sitting in a cesspool circle there doesn’t seem to be a way out of.

If it’s working for you that’s great, for those of us who are trying to make it work and having trouble or misunderstanding things we want to let the devs know what are issues are.

I don’t really get this. If you understand that you aren’t as good then why are you expecting to constantly climb? Maybe you are in your appropriate division?

I apologize if i sound mean or rude, i don’t mean it and I’m genuinely trying to understand.

You do know this is a team game right? Everyone is accountable, not just 1 person. If this is a dueling game, yes by all means there is no excuse for you not to climb up if you are bad.

Like I’ve said in my original post, so is dota 2/LoL/HotS, you don’t see widespread outrage against the system except for those stuck in the ‘ELO hell’ (which good players have repeatedly climbed out of, they just said it was relatively harder).

LoL dota2? this is such a different scenario, even if your teammates are bad as long as you have a well fed hero, it is still winnable.

Crinn.7864:

StickerHappy.8052:

ReaperJr.5967:

Bardly.2571:

Let the people below complain about the conditions below. I don’t think any of us are complaining about good players being able to skip, were complaining about those of us who aren’t as good basically sitting in a cesspool circle there doesn’t seem to be a way out of.

If it’s working for you that’s great, for those of us who are trying to make it work and having trouble or misunderstanding things we want to let the devs know what are issues are.

I don’t really get this. If you understand that you aren’t as good then why are you expecting to constantly climb? Maybe you are in your appropriate division?

I apologize if i sound mean or rude, i don’t mean it and I’m genuinely trying to understand.

You do know this is a team game right? Everyone is accountable, not just 1 person. If this is a dueling game, yes by all means there is no excuse for you not to climb up if you are bad.

The only common denominator between all your matches is you. Over a large number of games your rating will approach your skill level, even with pugs.

Unless the Illuminanti is conspiring to ruin your rating. Then yeah you’re probably stuck forever.

I am not stuck tho, thats a thing. I am just refuting the OPs point, the way it sounds to me is that let’s just blame the player for being bad. I have had many instances that the teammates are just absolutely horrid.

Bardly.2571:

ReaperJr.5967:

Bardly.2571:

Let the people below complain about the conditions below. I don’t think any of us are complaining about good players being able to skip, were complaining about those of us who aren’t as good basically sitting in a cesspool circle there doesn’t seem to be a way out of.

If it’s working for you that’s great, for those of us who are trying to make it work and having trouble or misunderstanding things we want to let the devs know what are issues are.

I don’t really get this. If you understand that you aren’t as good then why are you expecting to constantly climb? Maybe you are in your appropriate division?

I apologize if i sound mean or rude, i don’t mean it and I’m genuinely trying to understand.

No offense taken. Because, not being as good as someone who belongs in a ‘Good’ division isn’t the same as being in a division with ‘Bad’ players. There is no space between for the people who have experience, but aren’t the best. Right now were all mashed together with new or bads which makes it hard to not just move up, but keep from moving down on a string of bad matchups.

But in your given scenario, you’re as likely to have bad opponents as you are to have bad team mates. It then results in a situation where you have 1 good player (you) and 4 bad players vs 5 bad players. Which you should have no problem winning.

StickerHappy.8052:

ReaperJr.5967:

StickerHappy.8052:

ReaperJr.5967:

Bardly.2571:

Let the people below complain about the conditions below. I don’t think any of us are complaining about good players being able to skip, were complaining about those of us who aren’t as good basically sitting in a cesspool circle there doesn’t seem to be a way out of.

If it’s working for you that’s great, for those of us who are trying to make it work and having trouble or misunderstanding things we want to let the devs know what are issues are.

I don’t really get this. If you understand that you aren’t as good then why are you expecting to constantly climb? Maybe you are in your appropriate division?

I apologize if i sound mean or rude, i don’t mean it and I’m genuinely trying to understand.

You do know this is a team game right? Everyone is accountable, not just 1 person. If this is a dueling game, yes by all means there is no excuse for you not to climb up if you are bad.

Like I’ve said in my original post, so is dota 2/LoL/HotS, you don’t see widespread outrage against the system except for those stuck in the ‘ELO hell’ (which good players have repeatedly climbed out of, they just said it was relatively harder).

LoL dota2? this is such a different scenario, even if your teammates are bad as long as you have a well fed hero, it is still winnable.

I don’t think you get the point.. What’s the way to get a well fed hero? To farm and kill your opponents right? Which also means you have to be superior to them in mechanics and rotational/map awareness.

The same goes for gw2, if you are actively outplaying your opponents by killing them and rotating appropriately then you will literally ‘carry’ your team to victory.

ReaperJr.5967:

StickerHappy.8052:

ReaperJr.5967:

StickerHappy.8052:

ReaperJr.5967:

Bardly.2571:

Let the people below complain about the conditions below. I don’t think any of us are complaining about good players being able to skip, were complaining about those of us who aren’t as good basically sitting in a cesspool circle there doesn’t seem to be a way out of.

If it’s working for you that’s great, for those of us who are trying to make it work and having trouble or misunderstanding things we want to let the devs know what are issues are.

I don’t really get this. If you understand that you aren’t as good then why are you expecting to constantly climb? Maybe you are in your appropriate division?

I apologize if i sound mean or rude, i don’t mean it and I’m genuinely trying to understand.

You do know this is a team game right? Everyone is accountable, not just 1 person. If this is a dueling game, yes by all means there is no excuse for you not to climb up if you are bad.

Like I’ve said in my original post, so is dota 2/LoL/HotS, you don’t see widespread outrage against the system except for those stuck in the ‘ELO hell’ (which good players have repeatedly climbed out of, they just said it was relatively harder).

LoL dota2? this is such a different scenario, even if your teammates are bad as long as you have a well fed hero, it is still winnable.

I don’t think you get the point.. What’s the way to get a well fed hero? To farm and kill your opponents right? Which also means you have to be superior to them in mechanics and rotational/map awareness.

The same goes for gw2, if you are actively outplaying your opponents by killing them and rotating appropriately then you will literally ‘carry’ your team to victory.

I do get your point but your two examples are very different. Killing a higher lvled hero than you also nets you more gold and experience. Very different mechanics. Here in gw2 there is so much variables to consider. Team comp? <—- very minimal control over this if your teammates decides to switch. Class Stacking? <——- Dota does not have this either. Picks and Bans? <———- Gw2 does not have this either.

You cannot carry a game in gw2. Even if all the enemies are noobs and 4 of your teammates are also noobs, all they have to do is keep 2 points. Thats it. What if you a semi-poor mobility class? What would you do then? You can kill 2 of em, but guess what they can just outrotate you.

Bardly.2571:

No offense taken. Because, not being as good as someone who belongs in a ‘Good’ division isn’t the same as being in a division with ‘Bad’ players. There is no space between for the people who have experience, but aren’t the best. Right now were all mashed together with new or bads which makes it hard to not just move up, but keep from moving down on a string of bad matchups.

Partially agree. Yes, a good player could end up stuck in a group of new or bad players, but that doesn’t necessarily mean the good player will remain stuck there all season. It would be the case if they’re the sole good player stuck in a large pool of bad players, but it’s entirely possible they’ll encounter equally good players who are stuck in a lower division, as opponents or teammates. If enough good players end up on the same team in the lower division, they’ll advance higher. The more that happens, the more likely they are to get out of the low division.

New players aren’t inherently bad either. Yes, most are. Others may be good at PvP in general, but are just new to GW2, and could pick up quickly.

It really depends on the proportion of truly bad players to good players stuck in a low division. Anecdotal evidence may lead us to think that the good players stuck in a lower division are a minority, but we don’t have the raw numbers to make that claim.

StickerHappy.8052:

ReaperJr.5967:

StickerHappy.8052:

ReaperJr.5967:

StickerHappy.8052:

ReaperJr.5967:

Bardly.2571:

Let the people below complain about the conditions below. I don’t think any of us are complaining about good players being able to skip, were complaining about those of us who aren’t as good basically sitting in a cesspool circle there doesn’t seem to be a way out of.

If it’s working for you that’s great, for those of us who are trying to make it work and having trouble or misunderstanding things we want to let the devs know what are issues are.

I don’t really get this. If you understand that you aren’t as good then why are you expecting to constantly climb? Maybe you are in your appropriate division?

I apologize if i sound mean or rude, i don’t mean it and I’m genuinely trying to understand.

You do know this is a team game right? Everyone is accountable, not just 1 person. If this is a dueling game, yes by all means there is no excuse for you not to climb up if you are bad.

Like I’ve said in my original post, so is dota 2/LoL/HotS, you don’t see widespread outrage against the system except for those stuck in the ‘ELO hell’ (which good players have repeatedly climbed out of, they just said it was relatively harder).

LoL dota2? this is such a different scenario, even if your teammates are bad as long as you have a well fed hero, it is still winnable.

I don’t think you get the point.. What’s the way to get a well fed hero? To farm and kill your opponents right? Which also means you have to be superior to them in mechanics and rotational/map awareness.

The same goes for gw2, if you are actively outplaying your opponents by killing them and rotating appropriately then you will literally ‘carry’ your team to victory.

I do get your point but your two examples are very different. Killing a higher lvled hero than you also nets you more gold and experience. Very different mechanics. Here in gw2 there is so much variables to consider. Team comp? <—- very minimal control over this if your teammates decides to switch. Class Stacking? <——- Dota does not have this either. Picks and Bans? <———- Gw2 does not have this either.

You cannot carry a game in gw2. Even if all the enemies are noobs and 4 of your teammates are also noobs, all they have to do is keep 2 points. Thats it. What if you a semi-poor mobility class? What would you do then? You can kill 2 of em, but guess what they can just outrotate you.

You’re straying from the point now. Generally, the specific mechanics of the game do not matter. What matters is that to win you have to be 1. Mechanically superior to your opponent 2. Have a better map/rotational awareness than your opponent. Rate of experience/gold gain etc is irrelevant.

You can control team comp. First of all, it’s unlikely that your team mate decides to switch from whatever he’s playing at match start. So you can switch to whatever fits your team best. Even if he does switch mid-game, you can still switch to something more fitting as well. Secondly, you can always ask them to switch. Nicely. These points also address the problem of class stacking. Picks and bans are just a subset of team composition.

And.. I have no idea what you’re on about. If you keep two points you win. If you have a poor mobility class, you help your team win points and keep them. Like you said, they are worse than you so they shouldn’t be able to outrotate you.

ReaperJr.5967:

StickerHappy.8052:

ReaperJr.5967:

StickerHappy.8052:

ReaperJr.5967:

StickerHappy.8052:

ReaperJr.5967:

Bardly.2571:

Let the people below complain about the conditions below. I don’t think any of us are complaining about good players being able to skip, were complaining about those of us who aren’t as good basically sitting in a cesspool circle there doesn’t seem to be a way out of.

If it’s working for you that’s great, for those of us who are trying to make it work and having trouble or misunderstanding things we want to let the devs know what are issues are.

I don’t really get this. If you understand that you aren’t as good then why are you expecting to constantly climb? Maybe you are in your appropriate division?

I apologize if i sound mean or rude, i don’t mean it and I’m genuinely trying to understand.

You do know this is a team game right? Everyone is accountable, not just 1 person. If this is a dueling game, yes by all means there is no excuse for you not to climb up if you are bad.

Like I’ve said in my original post, so is dota 2/LoL/HotS, you don’t see widespread outrage against the system except for those stuck in the ‘ELO hell’ (which good players have repeatedly climbed out of, they just said it was relatively harder).

LoL dota2? this is such a different scenario, even if your teammates are bad as long as you have a well fed hero, it is still winnable.

I don’t think you get the point.. What’s the way to get a well fed hero? To farm and kill your opponents right? Which also means you have to be superior to them in mechanics and rotational/map awareness.

The same goes for gw2, if you are actively outplaying your opponents by killing them and rotating appropriately then you will literally ‘carry’ your team to victory.

I do get your point but your two examples are very different. Killing a higher lvled hero than you also nets you more gold and experience. Very different mechanics. Here in gw2 there is so much variables to consider. Team comp? <—- very minimal control over this if your teammates decides to switch. Class Stacking? <——- Dota does not have this either. Picks and Bans? <———- Gw2 does not have this either.

You cannot carry a game in gw2. Even if all the enemies are noobs and 4 of your teammates are also noobs, all they have to do is keep 2 points. Thats it. What if you a semi-poor mobility class? What would you do then? You can kill 2 of em, but guess what they can just outrotate you.

You’re straying from the point now. Generally, the specific mechanics of the game do not matter. What matters is that to win you have to be 1. Mechanically superior to your opponent 2. Have a better map/rotational awareness than your opponent. Rate of experience/gold gain etc is irrelevant.

You can control team comp. First of all, it’s unlikely that your team mate decides to switch from whatever he’s playing at match start. So you can switch to whatever fits your team best. Even if he does switch mid-game, you can still switch to something more fitting as well. Secondly, you can always ask them to switch. Nicely. These points also address the problem of class stacking. Picks and bans are just a subset of team composition.

And.. I have no idea what you’re on about. If you keep two points you win. If you have a poor mobility class, you help your team win points and keep them. Like you said, they are worse than you so they shouldn’t be able to outrotate you.

You can’t control team comp. You just can’t. Some people dont even multi class. You are saying stuff that happens in perfect situations. Some people don’t even wanna switch, worse, some people wont even chat back. These stuff happens all the time.

Mechanics matter. Gw2 requires everyone to do good. Dota2 not so much, as long as your teammates do not feed early game its all good, Two different situations, MOBAs have Late-game, Early game heroes, Does gw2 have that? No.

StickerHappy.8052:

ReaperJr.5967:

StickerHappy.8052:

ReaperJr.5967:

StickerHappy.8052:

ReaperJr.5967:

StickerHappy.8052:

ReaperJr.5967:

Bardly.2571:

Let the people below complain about the conditions below. I don’t think any of us are complaining about good players being able to skip, were complaining about those of us who aren’t as good basically sitting in a cesspool circle there doesn’t seem to be a way out of.

If it’s working for you that’s great, for those of us who are trying to make it work and having trouble or misunderstanding things we want to let the devs know what are issues are.

I don’t really get this. If you understand that you aren’t as good then why are you expecting to constantly climb? Maybe you are in your appropriate division?

I apologize if i sound mean or rude, i don’t mean it and I’m genuinely trying to understand.

You do know this is a team game right? Everyone is accountable, not just 1 person. If this is a dueling game, yes by all means there is no excuse for you not to climb up if you are bad.

Like I’ve said in my original post, so is dota 2/LoL/HotS, you don’t see widespread outrage against the system except for those stuck in the ‘ELO hell’ (which good players have repeatedly climbed out of, they just said it was relatively harder).

LoL dota2? this is such a different scenario, even if your teammates are bad as long as you have a well fed hero, it is still winnable.

I don’t think you get the point.. What’s the way to get a well fed hero? To farm and kill your opponents right? Which also means you have to be superior to them in mechanics and rotational/map awareness.

The same goes for gw2, if you are actively outplaying your opponents by killing them and rotating appropriately then you will literally ‘carry’ your team to victory.

I do get your point but your two examples are very different. Killing a higher lvled hero than you also nets you more gold and experience. Very different mechanics. Here in gw2 there is so much variables to consider. Team comp? <—- very minimal control over this if your teammates decides to switch. Class Stacking? <——- Dota does not have this either. Picks and Bans? <———- Gw2 does not have this either.

You cannot carry a game in gw2. Even if all the enemies are noobs and 4 of your teammates are also noobs, all they have to do is keep 2 points. Thats it. What if you a semi-poor mobility class? What would you do then? You can kill 2 of em, but guess what they can just outrotate you.

You’re straying from the point now. Generally, the specific mechanics of the game do not matter. What matters is that to win you have to be 1. Mechanically superior to your opponent 2. Have a better map/rotational awareness than your opponent. Rate of experience/gold gain etc is irrelevant.

You can control team comp. First of all, it’s unlikely that your team mate decides to switch from whatever he’s playing at match start. So you can switch to whatever fits your team best. Even if he does switch mid-game, you can still switch to something more fitting as well. Secondly, you can always ask them to switch. Nicely. These points also address the problem of class stacking. Picks and bans are just a subset of team composition.

And.. I have no idea what you’re on about. If you keep two points you win. If you have a poor mobility class, you help your team win points and keep them. Like you said, they are worse than you so they shouldn’t be able to outrotate you.

You can’t control team comp. You just can’t. Some people dont even multi class. You are saying stuff that happens in perfect situations. Some people don’t even wanna switch, worse, some people wont even chat back. These stuff happens all the time.

Mechanics matter. Gw2 requires everyone to do good. Dota2 not so much, as long as your teammates do not feed early game its all good, Two different situations, MOBAs have Late-game, Early game heroes, Does gw2 have that? No.

Yes but you can’t control team composition in d2 either. What you can do in both games is to play a role that benefits the team.

Lol.. Not feeding = your team mates have to be good either. You’re not even making sense right now. MOBA has heroes that fulfil roles, carry, support, offlane etc. So does gw2. We have bruiser, support, backcap etc. It’s the same thing.

All these rants are based on :

- mimimimi i deserve a better rank
- mimimimimi me team mates are no good ): ): )))))::::

Those people fail to see how they are as bas as the ones they don’t want on their team. They overestimate their own skill.

The devs have tried to change how the matchmaking works several times. They changed the way people are ranked several times as well. Always based on these rants. Yet it continues. Because some people can’t stand being told by the system itself that they do not compare to what they thought they were worth.