Guild Wars 2

100B High risk, No reward these days

i dont even try it anymore because the dmg (while full berserker) is lower compared to ressing, while also getting yourself into big risk..

Muchacho.2390:

Razor.9872:

Muchacho.2390:

Lucred.1802:

Muchacho.2390:

Question why was the pve down policy removed in the first place? Just curious.

Popping back up in the middle of an aoe with a third of your health and no buffs (and potentially still having condi’s on you from downstate) and immediately going back into downstate happens too many times and is too random as it is. I’m okay with it happening a lot, I’m not okay with it being random/unintentional.

Especially since downed players don’t trigger traps, a valid strategy is to drop a bunch of traps on a downed guy then let him rez himself (5-15 seconds depending on class, if nobody’kittenting him), he’ll pop back up with almost no health and get eaten by the traps which will trigger before he has control of his character again and has no chance to block/dodge and go back into downstate. A player in downstate for extended periods of time (up to 45 seconds from one set of traps this way) is way worse than a dead player that will rez in 15 seconds.

Wait doesnt the pve downed penality only effect down state health? So what you are saying dosent make sense.

No. After a person is rezzed, they come back with a lower health-cap for a while. Be extension, this means their remaining health percentage is also lower, so the lingering condi’s and mid-cast cleave can easily wipe them out.

Honestly you really confused me so i checked it in game but the down penality only effects downed state health. I always got the same intial health after a rally but the downed health did go ftom 75% to 50% to 25% and 0%. Like the tooltips states.

No it does affect your health after you rally. If you accumulate a penalty then you start with less health both when you go down and when you rally.

Lucred.1802:

Josh Davis.6015:

This is something we’ve been monitoring for a while. We’re looking at a couple of different options here, but we do need to be careful making changes to something that is so integral to PvP gameplay (and as a note, we’d be making changes to PvP only).

Below are some suggestions I’ve seen on this forum over the past few months. We wouldn’t do all of them of course, but I figured I’d throw them out and see how you folks feel about them.

• Implement 1-to-1 rally policy, similar to WvW. This means that only 1 player would rally per enemy killed, rather than up to 5. Would likely be the downed ally closest to the enemy player.
• Cap the range at which someone can rally.
• Bring back PvE-downstate policy
• Shorten revive/downed “invuln” buff.
• Reduce healing per tick when rezzing.
• Further reduce downstate HP
• Adjust outlier revive skills (Function Gyro)

I absolutely think you should adjust (IMO completely delete) the outlier revive skills. In no way is it fair that 2 classes can basically guarantee a revive with 3 people cleaving the downed guy, or that the 3 specialty revive skills (function gyro, war banner, and whatever the purple mesmer dome is) revive at vastly different rates with one being overwhelmingly superior (function gyro rezzes the fastest while being only slightly less likely to fail due to the gyro having a ton of health and armor plus stability).

The mesmer revive trait only increases your revive speed by 10%, and I believe all classes have access to a trait that does that. The “purple dome” is a feedback and reflects projecticles.

Josh Davis.6015:

This is something we’ve been monitoring for a while. We’re looking at a couple of different options here, but we do need to be careful making changes to something that is so integral to PvP gameplay (and as a note, we’d be making changes to PvP only).

Below are some suggestions I’ve seen on this forum over the past few months. We wouldn’t do all of them of course, but I figured I’d throw them out and see how you folks feel about them.

• Implement 1-to-1 rally policy, similar to WvW. This means that only 1 player would rally per enemy killed, rather than up to 5. Would likely be the downed ally closest to the enemy player.
• Cap the range at which someone can rally.
• Bring back PvE-downstate policy
• Shorten revive/downed “invuln” buff.
• Reduce healing per tick when rezzing.
• Further reduce downstate HP
• Adjust outlier revive skills (Function Gyro)

Yes to the first 2 and to shortening the invuln period.

I don’t think the downed state penalty would be good for PvP as others have already explained. Likewise further reducing how much health they start with or how fast you can rez them does nothing but make people forget about rezzing entirely as they can no longer compete with a stomp. It also further reinforces the superiority of the extremely few classes that have a superior rezzing skill.

Muchacho.2390:

Razor.9872:

Muchacho.2390:

Lucred.1802:

Muchacho.2390:

Question why was the pve down policy removed in the first place? Just curious.

Popping back up in the middle of an aoe with a third of your health and no buffs (and potentially still having condi’s on you from downstate) and immediately going back into downstate happens too many times and is too random as it is. I’m okay with it happening a lot, I’m not okay with it being random/unintentional.

Especially since downed players don’t trigger traps, a valid strategy is to drop a bunch of traps on a downed guy then let him rez himself (5-15 seconds depending on class, if nobody’kittenting him), he’ll pop back up with almost no health and get eaten by the traps which will trigger before he has control of his character again and has no chance to block/dodge and go back into downstate. A player in downstate for extended periods of time (up to 45 seconds from one set of traps this way) is way worse than a dead player that will rez in 15 seconds.

Wait doesnt the pve downed penality only effect down state health? So what you are saying dosent make sense.

No. After a person is rezzed, they come back with a lower health-cap for a while. Be extension, this means their remaining health percentage is also lower, so the lingering condi’s and mid-cast cleave can easily wipe them out.

Honestly you really confused me so i checked it in game but the down penality only effects downed state health. I always got the same intial health after a rally but the downed health did go ftom 75% to 50% to 25% and 0%. Like the tooltips states.

“For each point, your initial health bar is reduced by 25%.”
Initial health bar = health after rally.

Could we just remove the headache and get rid of rallying in PvP only? Either you’re stomped or revived, it would mean either/or would be a combat choice that could benefit PvP, and this would ofcourse mean you have to finally balance downed state, for example standardise armor/toughness/vitality, incoming healing (x% per person on revive only)for all professions (I would still suggest balancing downed state regardless of any changes). Some professions downed abilities and revive traits outshine others quite drastically.

Razor.9872:

Muchacho.2390:

Razor.9872:

Muchacho.2390:

Lucred.1802:

Muchacho.2390:

Question why was the pve down policy removed in the first place? Just curious.

Popping back up in the middle of an aoe with a third of your health and no buffs (and potentially still having condi’s on you from downstate) and immediately going back into downstate happens too many times and is too random as it is. I’m okay with it happening a lot, I’m not okay with it being random/unintentional.

Especially since downed players don’t trigger traps, a valid strategy is to drop a bunch of traps on a downed guy then let him rez himself (5-15 seconds depending on class, if nobody’kittenting him), he’ll pop back up with almost no health and get eaten by the traps which will trigger before he has control of his character again and has no chance to block/dodge and go back into downstate. A player in downstate for extended periods of time (up to 45 seconds from one set of traps this way) is way worse than a dead player that will rez in 15 seconds.

Wait doesnt the pve downed penality only effect down state health? So what you are saying dosent make sense.

No. After a person is rezzed, they come back with a lower health-cap for a while. Be extension, this means their remaining health percentage is also lower, so the lingering condi’s and mid-cast cleave can easily wipe them out.

Honestly you really confused me so i checked it in game but the down penality only effects downed state health. I always got the same intial health after a rally but the downed health did go ftom 75% to 50% to 25% and 0%. Like the tooltips states.

“For each point, your initial health bar is reduced by 25%.”
Initial health bar = health after rally.

But that is not how it worked when i tested it in pve. I guess you have taken that quote from the wiki but i think it means the inital down state healthbar. Well if you dont believe me go into pve and test in on mobs.

Josh Davis.6015:

• Implement 1-to-1 rally policy, similar to WvW. This means that only 1 player would rally per enemy killed, rather than up to 5. Would likely be the downed ally closest to the enemy player.
• Cap the range at which someone can rally.
• Bring back PvE-downstate policy
• Shorten revive/downed “invuln” buff.
• Reduce healing per tick when rezzing.
• Further reduce downstate HP
• Adjust outlier revive skills (Function Gyro)

I agree with all of these.

Downing someone should be seen as the kill, not the stomp. Therefor, if someone goes down they should almost always die. The exception should be if a bunch of players (3 or more) jump on them right away to get them up. Also if 3 or more people do jump on the downed player, it should take time so they aren’t just ressed almost instantly.

Some reasons for nerfing downstate:
-Barely anybody cares to much if they go down because they know that 9/10 times they will get ressed or rallied.
-It would also help people that are skilled enough to 1vX people so the first person they kill isn’t just instantly brought up.
-Some of the down auto attacks can take off 50% of someones hp in the time it takes for them to stomp the enemy if they are squishy. That is FAR to much damage.
-Thieves can just chose not to get stomped (An exaggeration but not far from the truth).
-Rangers can’t get cleaved down because of the pet heal.

As for the 1 to 1 rally, that would be amazing! Nothing is more frustrating than downing 3 or more enemies just to have them get up because one of your allies made a bad decision and got themselves killed. As for who gets up I think it should be in order of who went down first since thieves, eles, and mesmers (sometimes) can just move next to the downed enemy to gain priority.

• Implement 1-to-1 rally policy, similar to WvW. This means that only 1 player would rally per enemy killed, rather than up to 5. Would likely be the downed ally closest to the enemy player.

- Honestly no for me on this one, I think the rally system is healthy in 5v5 and can/does promote fight momentum “swings” aka 4v4 on mid, two of your team downs, thief jumps finishes off a low health enemy, beats the enemy to the stomp and moves on for decap etc. (random scenario but happens an those like it which swing the fight giving you/others “hero” moment feelings.

• Cap the range at which someone can rally.

- Yes and no for me on this one. Players in general don’t seem to do peel off when they should as it stands to los etc. I believe this would promote this even more so given the mentality of “well if I do get away, but down from condi etc. I’m screwed n no rally”

• Bring back PvE-downstate policy

- Agree with this, when you rally you’re “blessed” to be back in the fight, a minor penalty for having been downed seems natural to be honest and I’m not sure why it isn’t already there… (scratch my surprise, the one pvp/pve balance split that should eb there isn’t, nope, not surprised. [I kid though]).

• Shorten revive/downed “invuln” buff.

- Certainly, be rid of it all together in my opinion not just shortened, maybe decrease the cd on downed skills by the same amount of time for compensation and it’s golden.

• Reduce healing per tick when rezzing.

- Can already be reduced via poison, though I’m not strongly against it I don’t believe I’m quite for it. players just have to be aware depending on enemy comp scenario and who is resing if it’s best for team cleave on target on 1cleave 1 stomp etc. furthermore, I would instead turn it into diminishing returns ex) first to begin reviving does so at normal speed, consecutive revivers (numbers pulled out of kitten) do so at 50% speed

• Further reduce downstate HP

- With the changes I’ve agreed with I believe it would be over kill

• Adjust outlier revive skills (Function Gyro)

- With the changes I’ve agreed with would not be necessary (diminishing returns).

TLDR:

- Pve downstate policy

- Remove downstate invuln. altogether (compensate via equivalent decrease in downed skills cd)

- Introduce diminishing returns (Ie: consecutive revivers revive at 50% speed, this helps manage outlier skills as well).

Opinions expressed in this post are that of my own, due to this, I believe you should share them *

Lucred.1802:

(inb4 “just cleave/CC the gyro!” it has 21k health and more armor than a bunker guard as well as 3 stacks of stability that refreshes every 5 seconds)

Scrappers actually be like, you mean Gyros have 8k health and 1 stability for 3s from the Grandmaster trait.

Good remedy would have been to not make taking Function Gyro the Scrapper’s entire Elite mechanic itself, if it were a utility or not compulsory in any way, I think balance would be a lot easier to attain.

Even so, the cooldown of Function Gyro would be the only thing that would make sense to adjust if ArenaNet determined Scrapper was too good compared to other Elite Specs

• Implement 1-to-1 rally policy, similar to WvW. This means that only 1 player would rally per enemy killed, rather than up to 5. Would likely be the downed ally closest to the enemy player.
  —- why are we not founding this?
• Cap the range at which someone can rally.
  —- why are we not founding this?
• Bring back PvE-downstate policy
  —- i enjoyed the 2 glass + 1 mercy rune support far more than 3x identical cele cheesecakes stacked, so my vote goes clearly to keeping mutli rezz play, focusing more on making it clutch and expensive, rather than uncounterable and a almost free part of a build.
• Shorten revive/downed “invuln” buff.
  —- hmm sounds interesting, it would add A LOT of reliability on necro gs#2, dodge+invuln=unnatural stop on your cleave
• Reduce healing per tick when rezzing.
  —-id balance/nerf other stuff
• Further reduce downstate HP
  —- again bring other stuff back to earth
• Adjust outlier revive skills (Function Gyro)
  —- yup. I know im bringing up mercy runes again, but those were 30-40% boosts. Quickness was 50%… the 100% bonus + 20seconds of invuln spam rotations, not really a twitch reflex game

Muchacho.2390:

Razor.9872:

Muchacho.2390:

Razor.9872:

Muchacho.2390:

Lucred.1802:

Muchacho.2390:

Question why was the pve down policy removed in the first place? Just curious.

Popping back up in the middle of an aoe with a third of your health and no buffs (and potentially still having condi’s on you from downstate) and immediately going back into downstate happens too many times and is too random as it is. I’m okay with it happening a lot, I’m not okay with it being random/unintentional.

Especially since downed players don’t trigger traps, a valid strategy is to drop a bunch of traps on a downed guy then let him rez himself (5-15 seconds depending on class, if nobody’kittenting him), he’ll pop back up with almost no health and get eaten by the traps which will trigger before he has control of his character again and has no chance to block/dodge and go back into downstate. A player in downstate for extended periods of time (up to 45 seconds from one set of traps this way) is way worse than a dead player that will rez in 15 seconds.

Wait doesnt the pve downed penality only effect down state health? So what you are saying dosent make sense.

No. After a person is rezzed, they come back with a lower health-cap for a while. Be extension, this means their remaining health percentage is also lower, so the lingering condi’s and mid-cast cleave can easily wipe them out.

Honestly you really confused me so i checked it in game but the down penality only effects downed state health. I always got the same intial health after a rally but the downed health did go ftom 75% to 50% to 25% and 0%. Like the tooltips states.

“For each point, your initial health bar is reduced by 25%.”
Initial health bar = health after rally.

But that is not how it worked when i tested it in pve. I guess you have taken that quote from the wiki but i think it means the inital down state healthbar. Well if you dont believe me go into pve and test in on mobs.

I have. That is why I think it effects after-rally health too. Did your health not rally to 25% on your 3rd down?

Chaith.8256:

Lucred.1802:

(inb4 “just cleave/CC the gyro!” it has 21k health and more armor than a bunker guard as well as 3 stacks of stability that refreshes every 5 seconds)

Scrappers actually be like, you mean Gyros have 8k health and 1 stability for 3s from the Grandmaster trait.

Good remedy would have been to not make taking Function Gyro the Scrapper’s entire Elite mechanic itself, if it were a utility or not compulsory in any way, I think balance would be a lot easier to attain.

Even so, the cooldown of Function Gyro would be the only thing that would make sense to adjust if ArenaNet determined Scrapper was too good compared to other Elite Specs

There is absolutely no way gyro only has 8k health, ive crit them for over 8k with Arc Divider and not taken them below half.

And stability is plain for everyone to see, they always have 3 stacks.

Razor.9872:

Muchacho.2390:

Razor.9872:

Muchacho.2390:

Razor.9872:

Muchacho.2390:

Lucred.1802:

Muchacho.2390:

Question why was the pve down policy removed in the first place? Just curious.

Popping back up in the middle of an aoe with a third of your health and no buffs (and potentially still having condi’s on you from downstate) and immediately going back into downstate happens too many times and is too random as it is. I’m okay with it happening a lot, I’m not okay with it being random/unintentional.

Especially since downed players don’t trigger traps, a valid strategy is to drop a bunch of traps on a downed guy then let him rez himself (5-15 seconds depending on class, if nobody’kittenting him), he’ll pop back up with almost no health and get eaten by the traps which will trigger before he has control of his character again and has no chance to block/dodge and go back into downstate. A player in downstate for extended periods of time (up to 45 seconds from one set of traps this way) is way worse than a dead player that will rez in 15 seconds.

Wait doesnt the pve downed penality only effect down state health? So what you are saying dosent make sense.

No. After a person is rezzed, they come back with a lower health-cap for a while. Be extension, this means their remaining health percentage is also lower, so the lingering condi’s and mid-cast cleave can easily wipe them out.

Honestly you really confused me so i checked it in game but the down penality only effects downed state health. I always got the same intial health after a rally but the downed health did go ftom 75% to 50% to 25% and 0%. Like the tooltips states.

“For each point, your initial health bar is reduced by 25%.”
Initial health bar = health after rally.

But that is not how it worked when i tested it in pve. I guess you have taken that quote from the wiki but i think it means the inital down state healthbar. Well if you dont believe me go into pve and test in on mobs.

I have. That is why I think it effects after-rally health too. Did your health not rally to 25% on your 3rd down?

No my health stayed always the same after ralling. It was a downscaled area i had roughly 8000 health and always rallied at around 2k independent of the downed penalty. Only the downed state health was less each time. Also no penality 75% health, the silver one 50% the gold one 25% and the red one instant death. And that exactly how it supposed to work.

Infact you always really with 25% health see https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Rally

Perhaps adjust revive speeds based on the number of players reviving. One player’s reviving will stay as is, but two won’t double the revive rate. Instead, it’ll be more like 1.75x for example.

You obviously can’t make changes so that if someone starts stomping with stability, there’s absolutely no way of successfully rezing, but reviving can’t be so powerful that it’s impossible to stomp, even if two players rez.

My first choice would be to decrease healing/invulns/stab/cc/etc. that HoT power-crept massively. Prior to HoT, this system was in a pretty good place.

However, since the pvp team can’t do that, the following seem good to me:
- Decrease invuln frames when going down
- Successive downs should have less health (PvE system)
- Reduce non-player res-power. Pets and gyros should res at a half-person speed.
- Reduce the rally range. Players across the map rallying is silly.

At the same time, the amount of aoe, cc, etc. needs to be reduced too. Scappers and symbol DH are the worst here, but everyone does too much. Back when pvp was at its peak, players used bunker guard for the frequent stability to secure stomps and resses. Downing someone in teamfights consisted of both cleaving AND stomping at the same time (cleave to buy time). Nowadays, its 90% of the time not even worth stomping, b/c you can just cleave down a body faster, and will get 1000x cc or dps thrown on you if you do try stomp without an invuln (even just stab isn’t enough).

Uhhh is poison not a thing anymore?

Falan.1839:

Another option would be to increase the effectiveness of poison against downed enemies, maybe even make the res of posioned downed players impossible.

Not a lot of people use poison on people who are getting rezzed. Poison is probably the main culprit behind instant rez skills not working too…

Gyro dies instantly launch downed body away from rezzers apply poison?
All is needed is a longer cd

Hm i’ve been pretty vocal about the downstate so i guess I should post in this topic…
unfortunately at this point in the day i’m not to coherent so bare with me.

From your list i would pick:
-Rally distance (having someone rally from across the map is not a pleasant experience.
- 1 kill one rally
-Pet’s Rez speed, maybe cut by 1/4 then give them a rez buff which will add one quarter life the pet’s life (while rezing) This should slow down there rez while not making there utilities a complete waste to slot (1/4 and quarter are just random numbers)

Most of your problems with the rez mechanic vanished when you removed bunker ammy’s ,(good work on that btw.)

Chrury.4627:

I’m going to have to side with Malediktus and afrocrusade; revive is fine as is. Revive is just as much of a calculated risk as finishing is. It makes sense that some classes would have the tools to mitigate some of the risk, as annoying as it is some times. It’s still 2-7 seconds where that character is doing nothing else.

And any change to base revive would have to take into account all of the traits that affect revive or the downed state. Some classes are just easier to revive.

As a counter proposal: How about something to make finishing easier instead of making reviving harder. Like an inverted Rune of Mercy.
So instead of revive bonuses, something like…
Superior Rune of Cruelty
(1): +25 Condition Damage
(2): Gain up to 400 Toughness while finishing a foe, based on your level.
(3): +50 Condition Damage
(4): +15% Poison Duration
(5): +100 Condition Damage
(6): You finish foes 20% faster.

Just a thought.

What about this:
Superior Rune of Finesse
(1): -30% bleed damage done to you
(2): -30% poison damage done to you.
(3): -30% confusion damage done to you.
(4): -30% burning damage done to you.
(5): -30% torment damage done to you
(6): 200 power 100 precision 200 vitality. Finish 30% quicker condition build classes.

I prefer:

-slighty increase stomping speed by 10-15%
atm everyone just aoe bomb it because stomping is so slow.

- Rally range
- 1dead = 1rally
- reduce the downed invull time

This should be allot better

Josh Davis.6015:

This is something we’ve been monitoring for a while. We’re looking at a couple of different options here, but we do need to be careful making changes to something that is so integral to PvP gameplay (and as a note, we’d be making changes to PvP only).

Below are some suggestions I’ve seen on this forum over the past few months. We wouldn’t do all of them of course, but I figured I’d throw them out and see how you folks feel about them.

• Implement 1-to-1 rally policy, similar to WvW. This means that only 1 player would rally per enemy killed, rather than up to 5. Would likely be the downed ally closest to the enemy player.
• Cap the range at which someone can rally.
• Bring back PvE-downstate policy
• Shorten revive/downed “invuln” buff.
• Reduce healing per tick when rezzing.
• Further reduce downstate HP
• Adjust outlier revive skills (Function Gyro)

Please don’t DESTROY PVP… REZZ IS FINE, 5here is no need to change it. Focus on FIXING BUGS.

What you need to do, I to look at scrapper rez ability or whatever. But don’t touch rezzing.

Since when is ressing a massive problem? there is tons of cleave in this game. Heck sometimes getting somebody up is an task in itself taking kittentons of cleave damage. They are things such as CC from party members to interupt resses. Heck against certain team comps u shouldn’t try to ress. And if u manage to succesfully ress. U might as well put yourself in a disadvantage and were prolly better of kiting, juking or disenaging anyways. Rather then add to the snowball affect of a full team wipe.

All that needs to be done is implement the 1 v 1 rally policiy and you’re good to go and reduce the range of when u can be ressed. And this is more on principle really. Rather then ressing bieng an unbalanced mechanic which it isn’t. And this isn’t even needed in my opinion. But rather if ressing needs fixing. then implement this.

1 v 2’s should be incredibly hard to win by default. It’s you on your own with limited stats vs another player and an partner that tries to kill you. they may or may not be co-ordinating thier attacks which means if they are. Your odds are supposed to even lower. the 1 v 2 is not an solid argument when this game is mainly a teamgame. And where ressing will ussually involve 1 multiple players. Combine this with the matchmaking that needs to be fixed as well. And gaps might as well widen even more.

U shouldn’t Incentivze players to become even more selfish as ressing become a liability. And kill feeling of working together even more. If implemented wrongly u’d create more animosity as people would become even angrier for having thier teammate downed as they have less options to carry.

I don’t know if this is a thing or not still (Maybe fixed/changed?) because I have not seen this done to me in any match but…

Portal stomps….

Like, Anet how the kitten is this allowable? How is cleave damage going to affect THAT situation? Same goes for the thief teleport stomp…If anything needs some balancing………………

Xanctus The Dragonslayer.2318:

Since when is ressing a massive problem? there is tons of cleave in this game. Heck sometimes getting somebody up is an task in itself taking kittentons of cleave damage. They are things such as CC from party members to interupt resses. Heck against certain team comps u shouldn’t try to ress. And if u manage to succesfully ress. U might as well put yourself in a disadvantage and were prolly better of kiting, juking or disenaging anyways. Rather then add to the snowball affect of a full team wipe.

All that needs to be done is implement the 1 v 1 rally policiy and you’re good to go and reduce the range of when u can be ressed. And this is more on principle really. Rather then ressing bieng an unbalanced mechanic which it isn’t. And this isn’t even needed in my opinion. But rather if ressing needs fixing. then implement this.

1 v 2’s should be incredibly hard to win by default. It’s you on your own with limited stats vs another player and an partner that tries to kill you. they may or may not be co-ordinating thier attacks which means if they are. Your odds are supposed to even lower. the 1 v 2 is not an solid argument when this game is mainly a teamgame. And where ressing will ussually involve 1 multiple players. Combine this with the matchmaking that needs to be fixed as well. And gaps might as well widen even more.

U shouldn’t Incentivze players to become even more selfish as ressing become a liability. And kill feeling of working together even more. If implemented wrongly u’d create more animosity as people would become even angrier for having thier teammate downed as they have less options to carry.

This!! The OP post is L2P issue. Anet should focus on fixing bugs instead of rinning rezzing.

Josh Davis.6015:

This is something we’ve been monitoring for a while. We’re looking at a couple of different options here, but we do need to be careful making changes to something that is so integral to PvP gameplay (and as a note, we’d be making changes to PvP only).

Below are some suggestions I’ve seen on this forum over the past few months. We wouldn’t do all of them of course, but I figured I’d throw them out and see how you folks feel about them.

• Implement 1-to-1 rally policy, similar to WvW. This means that only 1 player would rally per enemy killed, rather than up to 5. Would likely be the downed ally closest to the enemy player.
• Cap the range at which someone can rally.
• Bring back PvE-downstate policy
• Shorten revive/downed “invuln” buff.
• Reduce healing per tick when rezzing.
• Further reduce downstate HP
• Adjust outlier revive skills (Function Gyro)

If you do that, I would like to see res utility skills be buffed.

Josh Davis.6015:

This is something we’ve been monitoring for a while. We’re looking at a couple of different options here, but we do need to be careful making changes to something that is so integral to PvP gameplay (and as a note, we’d be making changes to PvP only).

Below are some suggestions I’ve seen on this forum over the past few months. We wouldn’t do all of them of course, but I figured I’d throw them out and see how you folks feel about them.

• Implement 1-to-1 rally policy, similar to WvW. This means that only 1 player would rally per enemy killed, rather than up to 5. Would likely be the downed ally closest to the enemy player.
• Cap the range at which someone can rally.
• Bring back PvE-downstate policy
• Shorten revive/downed “invuln” buff.
• Reduce healing per tick when rezzing.
• Further reduce downstate HP
• Adjust outlier revive skills (Function Gyro)

Listed in order of “Yas!” to “Meh..”
1. Cap the range at which someone can rally
(Doesn’t make sense that a player can rally off of some one from across the map. That said, the range should be reduced by 20%.)

2. Bring back PvE-downstate.
(The average Necro can rez 3 to 4 times, it’s quite ridiculous :p)

3 and 4 are “Meh..”

Loathar.9375:

I don’t know if this is a thing or not still (Maybe fixed/changed?) because I have not seen this done to me in any match but…

Portal stomps….

Like, Anet how the kitten is this allowable? How is cleave damage going to affect THAT situation? Same goes for the thief teleport stomp…If anything needs some balancing………………

for one Thieves don’t have access to Stab or invulns like other classes and that puts their biggest Condi cleanse/ Stun break/ mobility skill on CD for 60 seconds.

And Same with Mesmer minus the Invuln part and portal not providing all that utility besides actually porting… So unless they remove every other classes safe stomp mechanics no they shouldn’t touch those.

Hmmm, pve down state penalty in pvp might screw the necros in this meta.

BlaqueFyre.5678:

Loathar.9375:

I don’t know if this is a thing or not still (Maybe fixed/changed?) because I have not seen this done to me in any match but…

Portal stomps….

Like, Anet how the kitten is this allowable? How is cleave damage going to affect THAT situation? Same goes for the thief teleport stomp…If anything needs some balancing………………

for one Thieves don’t have access to Stab or invulns like other classes and that puts their biggest Condi cleanse/ Stun break/ mobility skill on CD for 60 seconds.

And Same with Mesmer minus the Invuln part and portal not providing all that utility besides actually porting… So unless they remove every other classes safe stomp mechanics no they shouldn’t touch those.

They should remove safe stomp and safe rez entirely from all classes in all game modes.

Lucred.1802:

BlaqueFyre.5678:

Loathar.9375:

I don’t know if this is a thing or not still (Maybe fixed/changed?) because I have not seen this done to me in any match but…

Portal stomps….

Like, Anet how the kitten is this allowable? How is cleave damage going to affect THAT situation? Same goes for the thief teleport stomp…If anything needs some balancing………………

for one Thieves don’t have access to Stab or invulns like other classes and that puts their biggest Condi cleanse/ Stun break/ mobility skill on CD for 60 seconds.

And Same with Mesmer minus the Invuln part and portal not providing all that utility besides actually porting… So unless they remove every other classes safe stomp mechanics no they shouldn’t touch those.

They should remove safe stomp and safe rez entirely from all classes in all game modes.

Can’t really be done unless they stop people with stability from stomping or Rezzing since that is a form of safe stomping/Rezzing.

I don’t think ressing is really an issue right now with how strong cleave is, but there are a couple outlier res traits/skills I’d like to see toned down. I also think the 1 to 1 rally thing is a good idea in general. If you do decide to re-implement downed penalty or lower HP on rally, please change it to remove all conditions on rally, as it’s currently possible to lay down enough condition pressure on a downed player that they die before they can cast a heal/cleanse after a power res, and these would only make the problem worse.

Kuya.6495:

Hmmm, pve down state penalty in pvp might screw the necros in this meta.

Necro’s need a buff/changes anyways. They shouldn’t depend on 1 class to rez them whole match.

BlaqueFyre.5678:

Lucred.1802:

BlaqueFyre.5678:

Loathar.9375:

I don’t know if this is a thing or not still (Maybe fixed/changed?) because I have not seen this done to me in any match but…

Portal stomps….

Like, Anet how the kitten is this allowable? How is cleave damage going to affect THAT situation? Same goes for the thief teleport stomp…If anything needs some balancing………………

for one Thieves don’t have access to Stab or invulns like other classes and that puts their biggest Condi cleanse/ Stun break/ mobility skill on CD for 60 seconds.

And Same with Mesmer minus the Invuln part and portal not providing all that utility besides actually porting… So unless they remove every other classes safe stomp mechanics no they shouldn’t touch those.

They should remove safe stomp and safe rez entirely from all classes in all game modes.

Can’t really be done unless they stop people with stability from stomping or Rezzing since that is a form of safe stomping/Rezzing.

Okay, let me rephrase.
*remove function gyro entirely from the game (it’s the most powerful of all the downstate mechanics as the engi is free to go on about his business). Remove thief uppercut combo stomp entirely from the game. Remove mesmer rez dome from pvp. Remove Search and Rescue from pvp. Remove any and all other cheesy +rez or +stomp mechanics from PvP. Make all invulnerability abilities so that you cannot perform any actions other than run while invulnerable.

For the second time in this thread. Mesmers only gain a 10% increase to revive speed with that trait. The “dome” is just a feedback that reflects projectiles. Its hardly OP, get inside it and wreck them. Or just use AOE, or unblockable projecticles. There is nothing OP about that trait

Must be PTSD from season 1 that has them confused about that dome.

OriOri.8724:

For the second time in this thread. Mesmers only gain a 10% increase to revive speed with that trait. The “dome” is just a feedback that reflects projectiles. Its hardly OP, get inside it and wreck them. Or just use AOE, or unblockable projecticles. There is nothing OP about that trait

I don’t think it’s all about “Oh this is op that is op”. Part of the reason for thesse demands is normalizing rez capability. Once normalized then numbers and other such things can be looked at but when you have to balance around random factors then it makes balance impossible. Say we buff base res speed, then all the 10% traits would be op as kitten but if we nerf it then they may be mandatory to get a res off any time.

Solution is to remove all safe stomps and res buffs so that the actions are normalized and then change functions accordingly. Cap on rally range would be a fine implementation just by itself so that can go in regardless. (Tired of killing someone once they deem it safe to leave a teamfight only to have them rally from someone across the map who happened to die)

Loathar.9375:

I don’t know if this is a thing or not still (Maybe fixed/changed?) because I have not seen this done to me in any match but…

Portal stomps….

Like, Anet how the kitten is this allowable? How is cleave damage going to affect THAT situation? Same goes for the thief teleport stomp…If anything needs some balancing………………

Portal stomps are legit.

So are Phase retreat > blink stomps, Judges intervention stomps, Blink stomps, Shadow step Stomps, Steal stomps, Infiltrator signet stomps, elixer s stomps, mist stomps and my favorite from a Necro: Spectral Walk > Flesh wurm teleport > Spectral walk teleport stomps or plague blind spamming stomps.

Another cool trick is from Mesmer: When stomping a thief, if you have a sword equipped, use skill 3 on the thief right as you stomp, when he teleports you can use your skill 3 to teleport with him. Illusion follows :P (saves you a blink if you’re that sorta player)
There’s more, but you get the idea.

1 kill 1 rally that would be ok

there is also a bug ? when someone gets a dc you also rally

to balance stomp/rezz

remove that from the scrapper gyro or at least adjust it so its not stronger as a none HoT pet

pls remove the instant kill skill from daredevil

some classes have more than one hard cc in downstate I thing engi and rev not sure why that is that way

necro autoattack in downstate is also stronger than all other classes downstate autoattack I think

and again like was mentionted in this thread already pls tone down the pay2win power creep HoT brought with it
the pvp game is in a realy bad state
there is so much happening so fast even in recordings I cant see anymore what is happening which skills were used and combat log does not help at all since you would need a clock with timestamp that shows at least seconds not only minutes
a quick solution would be a global cooldown for all skills besides autoattack and heal
that would also help players who dont own a gamer keyboard where you can press more than three keys at once

Slow down the game maybe the shoutcasters could actually make better coments of what is happening in the fights and not only about some of the more obvious skills like lich or rampage

sry for ot

Josh Davis.6015:

This is something we’ve been monitoring for a while. We’re looking at a couple of different options here, but we do need to be careful making changes to something that is so integral to PvP gameplay (and as a note, we’d be making changes to PvP only).

Below are some suggestions I’ve seen on this forum over the past few months. We wouldn’t do all of them of course, but I figured I’d throw them out and see how you folks feel about them.

• Implement 1-to-1 rally policy, similar to WvW. This means that only 1 player would rally per enemy killed, rather than up to 5. Would likely be the downed ally closest to the enemy player.
• Cap the range at which someone can rally.
• Bring back PvE-downstate policy
• Shorten revive/downed “invuln” buff.
• Reduce healing per tick when rezzing.
• Further reduce downstate HP
• Adjust outlier revive skills (Function Gyro)

cap range and pve policy sound great as it can become a tactic from both party side who to focus first with an ongoing gameplay
all the rest seem that it wont be useful to even think about ressing anyone
but unless you give the downstate player better way to heal himself or doing dmg without being interrupt

Ario.8964:

Solution is to remove all safe stomps

Why? Why would this be a good thing? Safe stomps usually come at a cost and there’s at least SOME decision making required in whether or not to waste a cooldown to safestomp -_-.

If you remove this then the game just becomes more brain dead than it already is.

I think shortening the revive/downed invuln buff would allow for more intense moments and a sort of ramp-up effect to situations where players go down. If someone is about to go down players would have to get situated even more urgently for a res.

Lucred.1802:

BlaqueFyre.5678:

Lucred.1802:

BlaqueFyre.5678:

Loathar.9375:

I don’t know if this is a thing or not still (Maybe fixed/changed?) because I have not seen this done to me in any match but…

Portal stomps….

Like, Anet how the kitten is this allowable? How is cleave damage going to affect THAT situation? Same goes for the thief teleport stomp…If anything needs some balancing………………

for one Thieves don’t have access to Stab or invulns like other classes and that puts their biggest Condi cleanse/ Stun break/ mobility skill on CD for 60 seconds.

And Same with Mesmer minus the Invuln part and portal not providing all that utility besides actually porting… So unless they remove every other classes safe stomp mechanics no they shouldn’t touch those.

They should remove safe stomp and safe rez entirely from all classes in all game modes.

Can’t really be done unless they stop people with stability from stomping or Rezzing since that is a form of safe stomping/Rezzing.

Okay, let me rephrase.
*remove function gyro entirely from the game (it’s the most powerful of all the downstate mechanics as the engi is free to go on about his business). Remove thief uppercut combo stomp entirely from the game. Remove mesmer rez dome from pvp. Remove Search and Rescue from pvp. Remove any and all other cheesy +rez or +stomp mechanics from PvP. Make all invulnerability abilities so that you cannot perform any actions other than run while invulnerable.

Let me reiterate if they remove all of the safe Stomps from game then they will have to stop Stability from allowing stomps, since that puts classes at a big advantage for stomping, yes the Ai stomps/Rez needs to be toned down, also every single class has a Rez speed increase buff which provides 10% faster Rez those traits aren’t an issue since every class has access to them.

fishball.7204:

Ario.8964:

Solution is to remove all safe stomps

Why? Why would this be a good thing? Safe stomps usually come at a cost and there’s at least SOME decision making required in whether or not to waste a cooldown to safestomp -_-.

If you remove this then the game just becomes more brain dead than it already is.

Because a stomp should NEVER EVER EVER EVER NEVER EVER be 100% guaranteed.

And right now 3 classes have basically 100% guaranteed, near-instant stomps with effectively no penalty for using them.

At that point, why even bother having downstate?

Lucred.1802:

fishball.7204:

Ario.8964:

Solution is to remove all safe stomps

Why? Why would this be a good thing? Safe stomps usually come at a cost and there’s at least SOME decision making required in whether or not to waste a cooldown to safestomp -_-.

If you remove this then the game just becomes more brain dead than it already is.

Because a stomp should NEVER EVER EVER EVER NEVER EVER be 100% guaranteed.

And right now 3 classes have basically 100% guaranteed, near-instant stomps with effectively no penalty for using them.

At that point, why even bother having downstate?

So what are those 3 classes I know Scrapper is one what are the others? Mesmer and Thief? Where they have to use their biggest mobility CDs when they have no access to Stability reliably And they can still be cc’d if you time the cc for when they return before they stomp? Mesmer is a little harder since they do have accesse to invuln.

Or are you complaining about Thieves elite which to get an Instant stomp they have to time it the moment you go down and have it already precast since it’s a three part skill that can be interrupted.

I think reducing rally distance is the best fix actually. I’m sure everyone has seen that you are playing a 1 vs 1 at a far point and you down the guy. Out of nowhere he rallies because of some previous fight that he tagged people in.

Josh Davis.6015:

This is something we’ve been monitoring for a while. We’re looking at a couple of different options here, but we do need to be careful making changes to something that is so integral to PvP gameplay (and as a note, we’d be making changes to PvP only).

Below are some suggestions I’ve seen on this forum over the past few months. We wouldn’t do all of them of course, but I figured I’d throw them out and see how you folks feel about them.

• Implement 1-to-1 rally policy, similar to WvW. This means that only 1 player would rally per enemy killed, rather than up to 5. Would likely be the downed ally closest to the enemy player.
• Cap the range at which someone can rally.
• Bring back PvE-downstate policy
• Shorten revive/downed “invuln” buff.
• Reduce healing per tick when rezzing.
• Further reduce downstate HP
• Adjust outlier revive skills (Function Gyro)

The 1 to 1 rally would be good. Don’t think you need much else.

Josh Davis.6015:

This is something we’ve been monitoring for a while. We’re looking at a couple of different options here, but we do need to be careful making changes to something that is so integral to PvP gameplay (and as a note, we’d be making changes to PvP only).

Below are some suggestions I’ve seen on this forum over the past few months. We wouldn’t do all of them of course, but I figured I’d throw them out and see how you folks feel about them.

• Implement 1-to-1 rally policy, similar to WvW. This means that only 1 player would rally per enemy killed, rather than up to 5. Would likely be the downed ally closest to the enemy player.
• Cap the range at which someone can rally.
• Bring back PvE-downstate policy
• Shorten revive/downed “invuln” buff.
• Reduce healing per tick when rezzing.
• Further reduce downstate HP
• Adjust outlier revive skills (Function Gyro)

If you adjust revive and the downed state mechanic,please for gods sake make it happen in wvw aswell.

• Reduce healing per tick when rezzing.
• Further reduce downstate HP

Ario.8964:

OriOri.8724:

For the second time in this thread. Mesmers only gain a 10% increase to revive speed with that trait. The “dome” is just a feedback that reflects projectiles. Its hardly OP, get inside it and wreck them. Or just use AOE, or unblockable projecticles. There is nothing OP about that trait

I don’t think it’s all about “Oh this is op that is op”. Part of the reason for thesse demands is normalizing rez capability. Once normalized then numbers and other such things can be looked at but when you have to balance around random factors then it makes balance impossible. Say we buff base res speed, then all the 10% traits would be op as kitten but if we nerf it then they may be mandatory to get a res off any time.

Solution is to remove all safe stomps and res buffs so that the actions are normalized and then change functions accordingly. Cap on rally range would be a fine implementation just by itself so that can go in regardless. (Tired of killing someone once they deem it safe to leave a teamfight only to have them rally from someone across the map who happened to die)

Except that most classes already have a 10% increase in revive speed trait.

Necros do.
Mesmers do.
Elementalists do.
Thief does (and gets stealth as well).
Heralds do.
Rangers do (though it automatically activates search and rescue, which does make this trait more powerful).

6 out of 9 classes have access to these revive speed traits and yet he only complains about mesmers.

OriOri.8724:

Ario.8964:

OriOri.8724:

For the second time in this thread. Mesmers only gain a 10% increase to revive speed with that trait. The “dome” is just a feedback that reflects projectiles. Its hardly OP, get inside it and wreck them. Or just use AOE, or unblockable projecticles. There is nothing OP about that trait

I don’t think it’s all about “Oh this is op that is op”. Part of the reason for thesse demands is normalizing rez capability. Once normalized then numbers and other such things can be looked at but when you have to balance around random factors then it makes balance impossible. Say we buff base res speed, then all the 10% traits would be op as kitten but if we nerf it then they may be mandatory to get a res off any time.

Solution is to remove all safe stomps and res buffs so that the actions are normalized and then change functions accordingly. Cap on rally range would be a fine implementation just by itself so that can go in regardless. (Tired of killing someone once they deem it safe to leave a teamfight only to have them rally from someone across the map who happened to die)

Except that most classes already have a 10% increase in revive speed trait.

Necros do.
Mesmers do.
Elementalists do.
Thief does (and gets stealth as well).
Heralds do.
Rangers do (though it automatically activates search and rescue, which does make this trait more powerful).

6 out of 9 classes have access to these revive speed traits and yet he only complains about mesmers.

You missed guardian which is prob one of the most annoying ones in a 2v2 or 1v2 fight due to the knockback. Scrapper can count if function is up and off cd pretty sure the only class that doesn’t have direct speed increase is warrior.

Josh Davis.6015:

This is something we’ve been monitoring for a while. We’re looking at a couple of different options here, but we do need to be careful making changes to something that is so integral to PvP gameplay (and as a note, we’d be making changes to PvP only).

Below are some suggestions I’ve seen on this forum over the past few months. We wouldn’t do all of them of course, but I figured I’d throw them out and see how you folks feel about them.

• Implement 1-to-1 rally policy, similar to WvW. This means that only 1 player would rally per enemy killed, rather than up to 5. Would likely be the downed ally closest to the enemy player.
• Cap the range at which someone can rally.
• Bring back PvE-downstate policy
• Shorten revive/downed “invuln” buff.
• Reduce healing per tick when rezzing.
• Further reduce downstate HP
• Adjust outlier revive skills (Function Gyro)

I think adjusting outliers is certainly a given. I’m on the fence for 1 for 1 rallying. PvE downstate might be interesting but if you do this don’t forget to remove downed state traits and replace these the effects with something else . I don’t think incentivising down state is a good idea if it is a mechanic that is punished for being used.