Guild Wars 2

Engis have too much of everything on too short CD. Specializations are not bringing any hope either. I could write a whole essay about why but i has been posted countless times.

WTB nerfs/changes:
- slick shoes need either longer CD or apply knockdown only once per circle and not be stackable (after stab changes this spell is just unproportionally amazing)
- gear shield needs longer CD
- healing turret either needs longer CD or longer cast time
- (arguable) kits need to have CD like attunements
- CC in general needs to be toned down (see rifle) weither via longer CD, shorter duration on immob, anything really
- IP needs an icon and longer ICD
- kits need an icon; you can’t tell what kit engi is in unless you zoom in (and actually see anything in massive sparkle spam) or let them use spells

@Anet: stop buffing engis, the class is unpopular because of lame looks, lame looking spells and just awkward dps rotation in pve. Overbuffing them in pvp won’t make them popoular generally.

Solutions:
- remove hobosack
- make engi spells/gadgets etc. sparky (see asura turrets, asura bombs etc.; add turret/kits/bombs skins in gem store!!???)
- give simple dps rotation for pve so you don’t need rocket science to pull as much dps as zerker war in dungeons

/2cents

P.S. don’t bring “omg necros counter engis” that was true before celestial, now even necros get crapped on by engis tnks to celestial amy/CCs

Things I like:
- The circles from Slick Shoes disappearing once something steps on them. I really like this one since it’s not a nerf that would make SS unusable.
- Kits having an icon. Similar to how you see the ele is in fire or in water, necro having the DS icon, etc.
- Gear shield increased CD. 25 secs would make the most sense.
- Longer time putting the healing turret down. I’m fine with the water field/explosion having no CD. Maybe longer CD if you explode the turret to get the extra heal (25 secs) but don’t change the 15 sec CD if you pick it up.

Things I’d change/don’t like:
- Kits having CD. I don’t think they need it imo. You can just nerf individual skills (i.e. gear shield) in the kits and it’ll be fine.
- I would change IP from having longer ICD to having the ICD unchanged, but the burning duration decreased by 1 sec or so. Or maybe switch the condition duration you get from investing in explosives to condi damage, but this may be a bigger nerf than it appears on paper.

Dude, some people actually like to do something when they are running a dungeon. Sorry not every profession is as facerolly as a warrior.

Of course the engineer needs rocket science to do a proper rotation: he’s an engineer!

The only reason i enjoy playing engineer more than any other class in pug dungeons is because of how hard the rotations are. Also you can do a subpar rotation and still do more damage than a warrior

In pvp i like most of the changes incadia +1’d so ill +1 them as well. And yeah necro/ condis are the “counter” to engineer, but with the celestial meta and the prevalence of eles, guards, and shoutbows it seems less people are playing condi.

Sorel.4870:

Dude, some people actually like to do something when they are running a dungeon. Sorry not every profession is as facerolly as a warrior.

Of course the engineer needs rocket science to do a proper rotation: he’s an engineer!

doesn’t change the fact that majority wants simple rotation and effective dmg for speed runs… and class changes are based on popularity… go figure why majority needs to like engis to stop dumb overbuffing

Cynz.9437:

Sorel.4870:

Dude, some people actually like to do something when they are running a dungeon. Sorry not every profession is as facerolly as a warrior.

Of course the engineer needs rocket science to do a proper rotation: he’s an engineer!

doesn’t change the fact that majority wants simple rotation and effective dmg for speed runs… and class changes are based on popularity… go figure why majority needs to like engis to stop dumb overbuffing

Overbuffing? I think your historical analysis of the development of the engineer is way off. Here’s why.

Were buffed in 2014-15:

- Slick Shoes (a good buff, but Elixir S and EG are still viable)
- Pistol #5 velocity
- Shield #4 (you can run with it!)
- FT AA and fire field

Were nerfed in 2014-15

- IP
- Accelerant Packet Turret
- FT knockback
- Grenade kit #2
- Turrets
- Automatic Response
- HGH I believe (or was it in 2013?)

Looking at the facts here: the buffs engineer received are not related to the problems you’re complaining about apart from Slick Shoes. It even got some significant nerfs. Engineer is really strong because it fits very well into the current meta. But I wouldn’t get my tin foil hat and cry conspiracy. Get your facts straight.

Cynz.9437:

P.S. don’t bring “omg necros counter engis” that was true before celestial, now even necros get crapped on by engis tnks to celestial amy/CCs

Confirming this. I remember the days of fighting Engis in a respectable battle, perhaps with an advantage as a Necro. Now I’m literally hunted by them along with Thieves.

Source: I main Necro.

WhiteCrow.5310:

Cynz.9437:

P.S. don’t bring “omg necros counter engis” that was true before celestial, now even necros get crapped on by engis tnks to celestial amy/CCs

Confirming this. I remember the days of fighting Engis in a respectable battle, perhaps with an advantage as a Necro. Now I’m literally hunted by them along with Thieves.

Source: I main Necro.

Condi necro still destroys engineers (even if the celestial build survives a little longer). But condi necros were pushed out of the meta by eles and shout warriors, and the “meta” power necro build is ridiculously weak in comparison. That’s one of the main reasons engineers are so powerful now: nobody plays condi anymore.

Nothing is going to change until the new traits patch. Which might not come for a very long time.

Defensively, I don’t mind the engineer, however, there is ONE thing that must go.

_

Overcharged Shot. Increase that cooldown to 25 seconds. You got 2 kits, I think you can deal with a little loss in your powerful CC abilities on your main weapon.

Also, prevent projectiles to be thrown behind. Unless Engineers are NBA players, throwing grenades a good 50 feet behind is a bit stupid.

Nova Stiker.8396:

Also, prevent projectiles to be thrown behind. Unless Engineers are NBA players, throwing grenades a good 50 feet behind is a bit stupid.

Every ground targeted skill in the game works like that.

Sorel.4870:

Nova Stiker.8396:

Also, prevent projectiles to be thrown behind. Unless Engineers are NBA players, throwing grenades a good 50 feet behind is a bit stupid.

Every ground targeted skill in the game works like that.

True, but it should only affect Ground Targeted Projectiles like Grenades and…
and…
Tossing Lava Axe?

Nova Stiker.8396:

True, but it should only affect Ground Targeted Projectiles like Grenades and…
and…
Tossing Lava Axe?

That’s the only ground targeted projectile that I know of, with mortar. You could argue that the number 5 skill on ranger LB is some sort of projectile (even if it’s not). But why not? My asura looks hilarious throwing grenades over his shoulder!

I think pretty much everyone knows that engi are OP. They have been for a long time. It was just hidden a bit because everyone focused their rage on the turret spec for so long.

style.6173:

I think pretty much everyone knows that engi are OP. They have been for a long time. It was just hidden a bit because everyone focused their rage on the turret spec for so long.

its just because no one plays condi anymore, and stab is rare. revenant looks like it’s going to give engineers a hard time.

choovanski.5462:

style.6173:

I think pretty much everyone knows that engi are OP. They have been for a long time. It was just hidden a bit because everyone focused their rage on the turret spec for so long.

its just because no one plays condi anymore, and stab is rare. revenant looks like it’s going to give engineers a hard time.

It could, when I played the beta I had no problems with perma stability.

However, like everything else, including the trait preview, everything is expected to change.

Oh, Arcing Shot is a ground targeting projectile! I think… no, wait, Arcing Shot is a melee attack.

choovanski.5462:

style.6173:

I think pretty much everyone knows that engi are OP. They have been for a long time. It was just hidden a bit because everyone focused their rage on the turret spec for so long.

its just because no one plays condi anymore, and stab is rare. revenant looks like it’s going to give engineers a hard time.

This guy knows what’s up. The recent meta has:

- no more group stability (no more support guards)
- very few players using stability (you don’t have 2-3 warriors in a team anymore, and they use shouts now)
- no more condi builds, apart from the occasional condi ranger who is so easy to focus in team fights.

And people wonder why engineers are so strong…

Cynz.9437:

Specializations are not bringing any hope either.

FALSE. You have to read into it a bit, since the engineer specializations were still rough, but you can see where they’re going.

Incendiary Powder, quite possibly the biggest contributor to engi dominance will see changes. Remember that burning is being changed to stack intensity with lower damage per tick, so proc’ing burning for a short duration every few hits isn’t such a big deal anymore. It’s being moved to a different specialization, though it’s hard to gauge the impact of that. Right now, engineers will be locked into two specializations if they still want to get Speedy Kits + Invigorating Speed.

Gear Shield cooldown isn’t so bad at the base value. The use of the Power Wrench trait (reduced cooldown) is what makes it so frequent. Right now Power wrench is competing with damage traits, though it could be shifted to compete with utility/defense traits like Speedy Kits and Adrenal Implant. Power Wrench could also change to not affect Gear Shield.

Grenade Kit is being re-worked. It’s down to 900 range (from 1500). Poison grenades won’t be a field, so the applied condition will probably last for a shorter duration. The current Grenadier trait is gone, allowing the kit to be balanced properly. On live, Grenadier is effectively a 50% damage increase. You can’t conceivably keep the base kit useful without making the traited one too good. ANet can now better balance grenade kit.

Condition Duration is gone as a trait line bonus as far as we can tell, in favor of targeted trait increases where appropriate. That means cele rifle engi loses 30% condition duration. Grenade conditions won’t be as powerful, and immobilize from Net Shot will be back at the baseline 2 seconds (a loss of 0.6 seconds for cele rifle engis).

Touching on the others points:

• Kits do not need cooldowns. Kits are unique to engineers and the ability to swap between them as needed is part of the playstyle.
• Engineer CC is about right. It’s one of the engineer’s strengths. If certain abilities are a little too good, they can be examined.
• Cutting the duration of Slick Shoes (ability duration, not puddle duration) should be enough to prevent easy CC chains by encircling an opponent.

Yes, engineer is too good now. But we know things are going to change significantly with HoT and a lot of things will be broken for a while. It’s unlikely that anything will change before the specialization changes go live.

engineer is perfectly fine as it is

healing turret already has 20-25 s cooldown if detonated wich is the usual cooldown all other heals have no need for nerf here

gear shield has 20s cooldown takes main weapon skills away and an utility slot so it has its downsides

rifl cc Net shot is incredibly slow and easy to see its a slow huge net use your evade if you dont want a 2s immob , also 2 seconds immobilize really thats op to you? why not nerf ranger’s elite instead ?

overcharge shot while it is a form of cc it is a sustain skill not just a cc skill

IP will become a grandmaster with specialization changes

Kit visuals they will be changed as well if you watched ready up ep 32 you ll see grenades will be a handful of onions bomb kits will have the engineer hold a huge bomb med kit will have an arm syringe thing .

you used a bunch of words to say nothing apparently

the only valid argument would be slick shoes but then again necromancer has unblockable fears Guardians have unbreakable bubble domes wich are much stronger, in slick shoe’s case it wont do anything to you if you stand still .

i wouldnt call getting rid of turrets Buffing .

It is difficult to diagnose exactly what is OP about the Engineer in current meta because many factors contribute to this in small ways that when added together, create a class is just a bit too good at everything.

Here is what contributes to Engineers being a bit too good all around:
~ Celestial “It’s so good on Engi that there is no reason to use anything else”
~ Convenient and easily traited condi splash to go with that Cele “Incendiary Powder”
~ INT sigils in conjunction with Jump Shot/Blunder/Pry Bar
~ Too many blast finishers for a class that drops water fields
~ Questionably low recharge times for some of the best skills in the game
~ Multiple attack methods/Ability to switch up rhythm “this is powerful in pvp”
~ Multiple attack types: WoR can’t stop Jump Shot “that’s just one example”
~ Best block in the game
~ Best ranged pull in the game
~ Best consistent, practical and easy to land DPS in the game
~ Best CC rotations in the game “immobs, knockdowns, knockbacks, pulls, everything”
~ Arguably best peeler in the game, 2nd only to D/D Cele Ele
~ 100% swiftness/vigor uptime, not even a single skill needs to be clicked to do this
~ Ect… list go on in to smaller details. The above are what’s important

So you see it’s not so easy to “patch the engi”
The class actually needs to be overhauled entirely to fit back in correctly
But if I had to say 2x things that were the main culprits
It would definitely be INT sigils and Cele Amulet
If you weren’t for those two things, the build wouldn’t even be viable

Sorel.4870:

choovanski.5462:

style.6173:

I think pretty much everyone knows that engi are OP. They have been for a long time. It was just hidden a bit because everyone focused their rage on the turret spec for so long.

its just because no one plays condi anymore, and stab is rare. revenant looks like it’s going to give engineers a hard time.

This guy knows what’s up. The recent meta has:

- no more group stability (no more support guards)
- very few players using stability (you don’t have 2-3 warriors in a team anymore, and they use shouts now)
- no more condi builds, apart from the occasional condi ranger who is so easy to focus in team fights.

And people wonder why engineers are so strong…

it’s like D/D ele is amazing till someone whips out the boonrip. every engineer build has super easy counters, ie they all just die to condi (excluding only hgh). people actually have a way to kill engineers easy, but prefer to QQ on the forums rather than use it.

condi ranger is awful to meet on an engi, as are hammer warriors, condi shatter mesmers etc.

The only “nerf” I feel could be used is the way Slick Shoes works. I feel the intended use for them was to run into a enemy or group of enemies and knock them over as a disruption, and a chance to attack obviously.

2 second knockdown is perfectly fine. Hell that’s normal. But the issue is the aoes are triggered more then once. And you cant even dodge out.

Edit: I have a pvp engie pls dont hurt me, I just think the above is a bit unfair.

Nah, slick shoes were meant to be used as an escape mechanism and the oil was meant to deter people from following them. Of course, using it offensively wasn’t a tough stretch. In my opinion, nerf the oil dropping duration in half but give them their speed in case they want to escape.

Sorel.4870:

WhiteCrow.5310:

Cynz.9437:

P.S. don’t bring “omg necros counter engis” that was true before celestial, now even necros get crapped on by engis tnks to celestial amy/CCs

Confirming this. I remember the days of fighting Engis in a respectable battle, perhaps with an advantage as a Necro. Now I’m literally hunted by them along with Thieves.

Source: I main Necro.

Condi necro still destroys engineers (even if the celestial build survives a little longer). But condi necros were pushed out of the meta by eles and shout warriors, and the “meta” power necro build is ridiculously weak in comparison. That’s one of the main reasons engineers are so powerful now: nobody plays condi anymore.

Seriously? Condi necros were pushed out of meta by dd eles and shoutbows?

Or how about: Condi necros have so little self survability and the class is not in a very good spot and that’s why no one actually plays it?

When it comes to engi, there are things that deserved a nerf long time ago. However, dd ele was the only spec out of the cele meta that got touched. Nothing ever was done about IP, Slick Shoes, Overcharged shot…people were asking for these things to be adjuted, but it never happened. Cele engi and Shoutbow are one of the best specs in game atm while dd ele is falling out of the meta.

Laraley.7695:

Sorel.4870:

WhiteCrow.5310:

Cynz.9437:

P.S. don’t bring “omg necros counter engis” that was true before celestial, now even necros get crapped on by engis tnks to celestial amy/CCs

Confirming this. I remember the days of fighting Engis in a respectable battle, perhaps with an advantage as a Necro. Now I’m literally hunted by them along with Thieves.

Source: I main Necro.

Condi necro still destroys engineers (even if the celestial build survives a little longer). But condi necros were pushed out of the meta by eles and shout warriors, and the “meta” power necro build is ridiculously weak in comparison. That’s one of the main reasons engineers are so powerful now: nobody plays condi anymore.

Seriously? Condi necros were pushed out of meta by dd eles and shoutbows?

Or how about: Condi necros have so little self survability and the class is not in a very good spot and that’s why no one actually plays it?

When it comes to engi, there are things that deserved a nerf long time ago. However, dd ele was the only spec out of the cele meta that got touched. Nothing ever was done about IP, Slick Shoes, Overcharged shot…people were asking for these things to be adjuted, but it never happened. Cele engi and Shoutbow are one of the best specs in game atm while dd ele is falling out of the meta.

I’ve seen plenty of condi-necromancers, in WvW with perplex runes and 100% longer conditions while boasting ~1500 condition damage and Corrupt Boon that can practically 1-shot you depending on your setup.

Dhuumfire meta was Guild Wars 2 worst meta, we can all agree blowing up people with conditions isn’t fun, rewarding auto attacks or trait/sigil procs instead of timing skills well.

Cynz.9437:

Sorel.4870:

Dude, some people actually like to do something when they are running a dungeon. Sorry not every profession is as facerolly as a warrior.

Of course the engineer needs rocket science to do a proper rotation: he’s an engineer!

doesn’t change the fact that majority wants simple rotation

And this is how games get dumbed down. It’s why I left a certain game. Those developers literally start to hold the player’s hand all the way to max level.

The trail on slick shoes needs to be smaller and other than a few minor 1s cd adjustments I would make, the class is otherwise fine.

Nova Stiker.8396:

Laraley.7695:

Sorel.4870:

WhiteCrow.5310:

Cynz.9437:

P.S. don’t bring “omg necros counter engis” that was true before celestial, now even necros get crapped on by engis tnks to celestial amy/CCs

Confirming this. I remember the days of fighting Engis in a respectable battle, perhaps with an advantage as a Necro. Now I’m literally hunted by them along with Thieves.

Source: I main Necro.

Condi necro still destroys engineers (even if the celestial build survives a little longer). But condi necros were pushed out of the meta by eles and shout warriors, and the “meta” power necro build is ridiculously weak in comparison. That’s one of the main reasons engineers are so powerful now: nobody plays condi anymore.

Seriously? Condi necros were pushed out of meta by dd eles and shoutbows?

Or how about: Condi necros have so little self survability and the class is not in a very good spot and that’s why no one actually plays it?

When it comes to engi, there are things that deserved a nerf long time ago. However, dd ele was the only spec out of the cele meta that got touched. Nothing ever was done about IP, Slick Shoes, Overcharged shot…people were asking for these things to be adjuted, but it never happened. Cele engi and Shoutbow are one of the best specs in game atm while dd ele is falling out of the meta.

I’ve seen plenty of condi-necromancers, in WvW with perplex runes and 100% longer conditions while boasting ~1500 condition damage and Corrupt Boon that can practically 1-shot you depending on your setup.

Dhuumfire meta was Guild Wars 2 worst meta, we can all agree blowing up people with conditions isn’t fun, rewarding auto attacks or trait/sigil procs instead of timing skills well.

Cool stuff, the only problem is that this was about pvp. Almost no one runs a condition necro in pvp anymore due to their poor survability. However, terromancers is actually quite difficult to play unlike power necro, which is the spec that does most damage on AA. So I’m sorry but your argument isn’t valid in pvp. I don’t know about wvw, I don’t play that.

Laraley.7695:

Sorel.4870:

WhiteCrow.5310:

Cynz.9437:

P.S. don’t bring “omg necros counter engis” that was true before celestial, now even necros get crapped on by engis tnks to celestial amy/CCs

Confirming this. I remember the days of fighting Engis in a respectable battle, perhaps with an advantage as a Necro. Now I’m literally hunted by them along with Thieves.

Source: I main Necro.

Condi necro still destroys engineers (even if the celestial build survives a little longer). But condi necros were pushed out of the meta by eles and shout warriors, and the “meta” power necro build is ridiculously weak in comparison. That’s one of the main reasons engineers are so powerful now: nobody plays condi anymore.

Seriously? Condi necros were pushed out of meta by dd eles and shoutbows?

Or how about: Condi necros have so little self survability and the class is not in a very good spot and that’s why no one actually plays it?

When it comes to engi, there are things that deserved a nerf long time ago. However, dd ele was the only spec out of the cele meta that got touched. Nothing ever was done about IP, Slick Shoes, Overcharged shot…people were asking for these things to be adjuted, but it never happened. Cele engi and Shoutbow are one of the best specs in game atm while dd ele is falling out of the meta.

Seriously, condi necro were pushed out by DD ele and shoutheal.

hint: power necro has even less survive

choucs.4507:

Laraley.7695:

Sorel.4870:

WhiteCrow.5310:

Cynz.9437:

P.S. don’t bring “omg necros counter engis” that was true before celestial, now even necros get crapped on by engis tnks to celestial amy/CCs

Confirming this. I remember the days of fighting Engis in a respectable battle, perhaps with an advantage as a Necro. Now I’m literally hunted by them along with Thieves.

Source: I main Necro.

Condi necro still destroys engineers (even if the celestial build survives a little longer). But condi necros were pushed out of the meta by eles and shout warriors, and the “meta” power necro build is ridiculously weak in comparison. That’s one of the main reasons engineers are so powerful now: nobody plays condi anymore.

Seriously? Condi necros were pushed out of meta by dd eles and shoutbows?

Or how about: Condi necros have so little self survability and the class is not in a very good spot and that’s why no one actually plays it?

When it comes to engi, there are things that deserved a nerf long time ago. However, dd ele was the only spec out of the cele meta that got touched. Nothing ever was done about IP, Slick Shoes, Overcharged shot…people were asking for these things to be adjuted, but it never happened. Cele engi and Shoutbow are one of the best specs in game atm while dd ele is falling out of the meta.

Seriously, condi necro were pushed out by DD ele and shoutheal.

hint: power necro has even less survive

That would be correct if the spec was actually viable, which is really not. Also, the rise of medguards was rather why people stopped playing it.

Laraley.7695:

Nova Stiker.8396:

Laraley.7695:

Sorel.4870:

WhiteCrow.5310:

Cynz.9437:

P.S. don’t bring “omg necros counter engis” that was true before celestial, now even necros get crapped on by engis tnks to celestial amy/CCs

Confirming this. I remember the days of fighting Engis in a respectable battle, perhaps with an advantage as a Necro. Now I’m literally hunted by them along with Thieves.

Source: I main Necro.

Condi necro still destroys engineers (even if the celestial build survives a little longer). But condi necros were pushed out of the meta by eles and shout warriors, and the “meta” power necro build is ridiculously weak in comparison. That’s one of the main reasons engineers are so powerful now: nobody plays condi anymore.

Seriously? Condi necros were pushed out of meta by dd eles and shoutbows?

Or how about: Condi necros have so little self survability and the class is not in a very good spot and that’s why no one actually plays it?

When it comes to engi, there are things that deserved a nerf long time ago. However, dd ele was the only spec out of the cele meta that got touched. Nothing ever was done about IP, Slick Shoes, Overcharged shot…people were asking for these things to be adjuted, but it never happened. Cele engi and Shoutbow are one of the best specs in game atm while dd ele is falling out of the meta.

I’ve seen plenty of condi-necromancers, in WvW with perplex runes and 100% longer conditions while boasting ~1500 condition damage and Corrupt Boon that can practically 1-shot you depending on your setup.

Dhuumfire meta was Guild Wars 2 worst meta, we can all agree blowing up people with conditions isn’t fun, rewarding auto attacks or trait/sigil procs instead of timing skills well.

Cool stuff, the only problem is that this was about pvp. Almost no one runs a condition necro in pvp anymore due to their poor survability. However, terromancers is actually quite difficult to play unlike power necro, which is the spec that does most damage on AA. So I’m sorry but your argument isn’t valid in pvp. I don’t know about wvw, I don’t play that.

I was joking about the viability condi-necromancer, being ONLY good in WvW -.-

Terror necro’s are good, the problem is power necromancer is TOO good. Destroying anyone that falls below 50% health. At this point I wish Close to Death and Chill of Death had 33% health proc instead of 50%, making counterplaying a bit easier.

Granted, there are tons of other things wrong with necromancers right now but one step at a time I suppose.

I say we wait until the core specs and the condi changes before we start yelling.

First, the core specs are incomplete, but from what we know Engi is already a bit different. Grenades have their range cut, and if they want range they have to run Mortar, which means no Supply Crate. Also Leg Mods got moved out, and that’s actually a huge reason why Engi is so powerful — panic strike, pin down, frost grenade are all 66% duration on cele engineers currently. This is getting removed unless Engis start going into Firearms (which is highly unlikely). Also they already mentioned Celestial Amulet will be taking a hit. Now, I don’t think these changes will be that huge, but technically they are still nerfs so it’s still something.

Additionally, everyone knows that conditions are the main weakness of Engineer (people have already mentioned this in the thread with the condi necro). With the new traits and burn/poison stacking we could see condition builds come back into the meta. I don’t know how many people noticed from the core specializations stream but Lingering Curse got pretty big buffs, not to mention the new Putrid Defence.

As for timing since people on this thread were talking about it: Jon Peters already said in the stream that these things will come before HoT. HoT will most likely be later this year, so all these changes will be added to a patch this summer or early fall. So we wait at most 3 months, but most likely earlier because people will start crying as soon as the last elite spec is revealed. That’s not too far off honestly.

Even if nothing happens after the changes and we’re still running similar builds, keep in mind we have no idea what HoT itself or the elite specs will do yet. That includes the Necromancer spec which may make necros viable again. Also some of the Revenant abilities like Soothing Stone and Inspiring Reinforcement sound like they could screw over Engis pretty hard.

TL;DR: I do think Engis are a bit strong atm, but I say we wait and see, at least until the condi changes / core specializations hit live. If Engis are still strong after that, then I agree Anet should look into nerfing them.

i think slick shoes can stand to see some sort of nerf. celestial is a bit too strong but anet already said they are planning to nerf ~10% so thats coming.

i have to take objection with overcharge shot though. a lot of non-engis scream to nerf it but what you have to realize is that overcharge shot cc’s the engi as well… this is how they have balanced this skill. this skill has not changed since launch because it is balanced, why now are people complaining so much about it——> b/c the buff to slick shoes makes the cc seem overwhelming?

even if people still feel overcharge shot is too strong (after taking into consideration the self cc built in) – gotta remember engi is the most limited in weapon choices for all professions (only rifle, pistol, shield), if rifle was nerfed you would completely nerf the engi all together

Laraley.7695:

choucs.4507:

Laraley.7695:

Sorel.4870:

WhiteCrow.5310:

Cynz.9437:

P.S. don’t bring “omg necros counter engis” that was true before celestial, now even necros get crapped on by engis tnks to celestial amy/CCs

Confirming this. I remember the days of fighting Engis in a respectable battle, perhaps with an advantage as a Necro. Now I’m literally hunted by them along with Thieves.

Source: I main Necro.

Condi necro still destroys engineers (even if the celestial build survives a little longer). But condi necros were pushed out of the meta by eles and shout warriors, and the “meta” power necro build is ridiculously weak in comparison. That’s one of the main reasons engineers are so powerful now: nobody plays condi anymore.

Seriously? Condi necros were pushed out of meta by dd eles and shoutbows?

Or how about: Condi necros have so little self survability and the class is not in a very good spot and that’s why no one actually plays it?

When it comes to engi, there are things that deserved a nerf long time ago. However, dd ele was the only spec out of the cele meta that got touched. Nothing ever was done about IP, Slick Shoes, Overcharged shot…people were asking for these things to be adjuted, but it never happened. Cele engi and Shoutbow are one of the best specs in game atm while dd ele is falling out of the meta.

Seriously, condi necro were pushed out by DD ele and shoutheal.

hint: power necro has even less survive

That would be correct if the spec was actually viable, which is really not. Also, the rise of medguards was rather why people stopped playing it.

Nos specifically said in the stream that reason why condi necro is not viable, because there’s too many condi cleanse and it has no down cleave damage

Cynz.9437:

Engis have too much of everything on too short CD. Specializations are not bringing any hope either. I could write a whole essay about why but i has been posted countless times.

WTB nerfs/changes:
- slick shoes need either longer CD or apply knockdown only once per circle and not be stackable (after stab changes this spell is just unproportionally amazing)
- gear shield needs longer CD
- healing turret either needs longer CD or longer cast time
- (arguable) kits need to have CD like attunements
- CC in general needs to be toned down (see rifle) weither via longer CD, shorter duration on immob, anything really
- IP needs an icon and longer ICD
- kits need an icon; you can’t tell what kit engi is in unless you zoom in (and actually see anything in massive sparkle spam) or let them use spells

@Anet: stop buffing engis, the class is unpopular because of lame looks, lame looking spells and just awkward dps rotation in pve. Overbuffing them in pvp won’t make them popoular generally.

Solutions:
- remove hobosack
- make engi spells/gadgets etc. sparky (see asura turrets, asura bombs etc.; add turret/kits/bombs skins in gem store!!???)
- give simple dps rotation for pve so you don’t need rocket science to pull as much dps as zerker war in dungeons

/2cents

P.S. don’t bring “omg necros counter engis” that was true before celestial, now even necros get crapped on by engis tnks to celestial amy/CCs

choucs.4507:

Laraley.7695:

choucs.4507:

Laraley.7695:

Sorel.4870:

WhiteCrow.5310:

Cynz.9437:

P.S. don’t bring “omg necros counter engis” that was true before celestial, now even necros get crapped on by engis tnks to celestial amy/CCs

Confirming this. I remember the days of fighting Engis in a respectable battle, perhaps with an advantage as a Necro. Now I’m literally hunted by them along with Thieves.

Source: I main Necro.

Condi necro still destroys engineers (even if the celestial build survives a little longer). But condi necros were pushed out of the meta by eles and shout warriors, and the “meta” power necro build is ridiculously weak in comparison. That’s one of the main reasons engineers are so powerful now: nobody plays condi anymore.

Seriously? Condi necros were pushed out of meta by dd eles and shoutbows?

Or how about: Condi necros have so little self survability and the class is not in a very good spot and that’s why no one actually plays it?

When it comes to engi, there are things that deserved a nerf long time ago. However, dd ele was the only spec out of the cele meta that got touched. Nothing ever was done about IP, Slick Shoes, Overcharged shot…people were asking for these things to be adjuted, but it never happened. Cele engi and Shoutbow are one of the best specs in game atm while dd ele is falling out of the meta.

Seriously, condi necro were pushed out by DD ele and shoutheal.

hint: power necro has even less survive

That would be correct if the spec was actually viable, which is really not. Also, the rise of medguards was rather why people stopped playing it.

Nos specifically said in the stream that reason why condi necro is not viable, because there’s too many condi cleanse and it has no down cleave damage

Which I agree with. However, if condi necro wasn’t in such a bad place, I doubt it would be completely pushed out of meta.

I think engis are fine as is but there slick shoes need to be nerfed. I like the idea of the circles disappearing once they are stepped on.

Jelzouki.4128:

I think engis are fine as is but there slick shoes need to be nerfed. I like the idea of the circles disappearing once they are stepped on.

Engis are fine?

What?

Are we playing the same game?

The problem is that a lot of players keep QQing about turrets instead of focus the complains in cele engi and condi spam engi. So what Anet does is nerf the already not viable turret engi while the op builds fly under the radar.

Just my opinion, only a few things need to be adjusted and it would help significantly.

1. Increase gearshield CD to 30 sec
2. 1/2 to 3/4 cast time to rifle KB
3. Icon to show when the next attack inflicts burning from IP so it can be avoided. And allow it to avoided on the next attack regardless if you hit or miss
4. Reduce slick shoe kd from 3 to 2

People people just shut up and look at how your sounding. Bark, bark, whine, moan, meta, meta, meta, meta I got beat by another player in pvp and i refuse to look elsewhere than the meta for answers. Can you please nerfs engineers to oblivian since I dont like them to start with in pvp so I can be “winner” by befault without looking outside the meta and playing and learning my class. All i want to play is a thief, elementalist, guardian, warrior and mesmer, know what just delete all other classes but those and well be good.

The engineer is here to stay deal with it. And do try looking around at other solutions besides what some college math professor has come up with you might find the answers right under your nose. Anet dosent have to ultranerf everything just because you want to be a “winner” by default.

dragonrage.8921:

People people just shut up and look at how your sounding. Bark, bark, whine, moan, meta, meta, meta, meta I got beat by another player in pvp and i refuse to look elsewhere than the meta for answers. Can you please nerfs engineers to oblivian since I dont like them to start with in pvp so I can be “winner” by befault without looking outside the meta and playing and learning my class. All i want to play is a thief, elementalist, guardian, warrior and mesmer, know what just delete all other classes but those and well be good.

The engineer is here to stay deal with it. And do try looking around at other solutions besides what some college math professor has come up with you might find the answers right under your nose. Anet dosent have to ultranerf everything just because you want to be a “winner” by default.

Ofc, because engi is the winner by default.

Arken.3725:

Just my opinion, only a few things need to be adjusted and it would help significantly.

1. Increase gearshield CD to 30 sec
2. 1/2 to 3/4 cast time to rifle KB
3. Icon to show when the next attack inflicts burning from IP so it can be avoided. And allow it to avoided on the next attack regardless if you hit or miss
4. Reduce slick shoe kd from 3 to 2

Great suggestions. I would also like to see healing turret have a 0.75s cast time so that it is possible to interrupt. The power of this heal is a big reason why engies are so stong, and giving it SOME kind of drawback would be a great thing.

The engineer was introduced as part of the game originally deal with it it doesn’t fit into the “meta” sometimes. Have you tried playing one after the turret nerf? its really not that easy seriously. Before you kitten wine and moan play one successfully and then you have the right to complain. I don’t like Thieves but, i realized after really tying to play one they take a considerable amount of skill to play well and even survive. The same with fresh air eles they are pure cheese but they do take a good amount of skill to play well. Adapt to what comes in front of you and think for yourself don’t let the “meta” do it for you.

dragonrage.8921:

The engineer was introduced as part of the game originally deal with it it doesn’t fit into the “meta” sometimes. Have you tried playing one after the turret nerf? its really not that easy seriously. Before you kitten wine and moan play one successfully and then you have the right to complain. I don’t like Thieves but, i realized after really tying to play one they take a considerable amount of skill to play well and even survive. The same with fresh air eles they are pure cheese but they do take a good amount of skill to play well. Adapt to what comes in front of you and think for yourself don’t let the “meta” do it for you.

Lol, there is a difference between something being hard to play and something being too strong, which engi is at the moment. You deal with it.

BlackBeard.2873:

Arken.3725:

Just my opinion, only a few things need to be adjusted and it would help significantly.

1. Increase gearshield CD to 30 sec
2. 1/2 to 3/4 cast time to rifle KB
3. Icon to show when the next attack inflicts burning from IP so it can be avoided. And allow it to avoided on the next attack regardless if you hit or miss
4. Reduce slick shoe kd from 3 to 2

Great suggestions. I would also like to see healing turret have a 0.75s cast time so that it is possible to interrupt. The power of this heal is a big reason why engies are so stong, and giving it SOME kind of drawback would be a great thing.

And yet I can’t seem to figure out a decent balance for ele’s..bah.

Arken.3725:

BlackBeard.2873:

Arken.3725:

Just my opinion, only a few things need to be adjusted and it would help significantly.

1. Increase gearshield CD to 30 sec
2. 1/2 to 3/4 cast time to rifle KB
3. Icon to show when the next attack inflicts burning from IP so it can be avoided. And allow it to avoided on the next attack regardless if you hit or miss
4. Reduce slick shoe kd from 3 to 2

Great suggestions. I would also like to see healing turret have a 0.75s cast time so that it is possible to interrupt. The power of this heal is a big reason why engies are so stong, and giving it SOME kind of drawback would be a great thing.

And yet I can’t seem to figure out a decent balance for ele’s..bah.

:-P I agree with some of your ele thoughts, but not others due to my desire to promote builds outside of d/d (which is hella boring anyway). Even then, d/d ele has its own problems being slightly inferior to shoutbow (which is OP).

Luckily, Anet is about to power-creep everything up to high heaven and make all those discussions moot.

BlackBeard.2873:

Arken.3725:

BlackBeard.2873:

Arken.3725:

Just my opinion, only a few things need to be adjusted and it would help significantly.

1. Increase gearshield CD to 30 sec
2. 1/2 to 3/4 cast time to rifle KB
3. Icon to show when the next attack inflicts burning from IP so it can be avoided. And allow it to avoided on the next attack regardless if you hit or miss
4. Reduce slick shoe kd from 3 to 2

Great suggestions. I would also like to see healing turret have a 0.75s cast time so that it is possible to interrupt. The power of this heal is a big reason why engies are so stong, and giving it SOME kind of drawback would be a great thing.

And yet I can’t seem to figure out a decent balance for ele’s..bah.

:-P I agree with some of your ele thoughts, but not others due to my desire to promote builds outside of d/d (which is hella boring anyway). Even then, d/d ele has its own problems being slightly inferior to shoutbow (which is OP).

Luckily, Anet is about to power-creep everything up to high heaven and make all those discussions moot.

Weeeee! it’s so exciting isn’kitten

As for the topic at hand, I think engis are still strong but not OP now, because so many other classes have strong builds and/or exploits to boost them up a bit (referring to mesmer gs stow).

Sure, going into a fight with an engi I always anticipate being condi bombed and CC’ed like crazy, but it’s not un-counterable or any stronger than the meditation burst from guardians, CC burst + immunity from warriors, panic strike or s/d burst from thieves, shatter burst from mesmer, ranger burst, or any other well-rehearsed opening, at least not in my opinion.

(Not that any discussions about balance are meaningful now anyways with a huge patch incoming, but whatever right?)

Oh and inb4 “You play engi so you’re only defending yourself.”: I play zerker flamethrower 0/6/0/6/2 so really none of the complaints even apply to me. I just thought I’d add my two cents to the mix.

We’re gonna have to wait for the specialization changes before we really talk about any significant balance changes anymore, as it’ still unclear how those will shake things up. Engineer is getting the most thorough overhaul out of every profession as well, a lot of things are still not known.

As far as the OP’s propositions go, I have three comments:

1. Slick shoes: I think the cooldown is fine, but I’ve never agreed with the way it can knock a person down multiple times, even if they were initially standing still. IMO, it should only really punish people for moving over it, not just standing around. Yes, this means someone can completely negate the knockdown, but they’re sacrificing their entire mobility to do so. They literally won’t be able to avoid anything if they do that, so it’s still something the engineer or their allies can take advantage of.

I suppose having the oil puddles disappear after being tripped could also work as an alternative, but it’s generally possible to smear multiple pools over the same area, so I don’t know how good that would be.

2. Gear shield: I’m a bit on the fence with this. Back in the olden days, tool kit was a complete garbage. You’d only really run it to be silly for a while. However, they eventually buffed it so that magnet had a 1200 range, pry bar hit harder, and gear shield had a cooldown reduction. After that, the kit became a staple of many builds. It basically went from useless to quite valuable overnight.

Now if we talk about lowering the cooldown on gear shield, that has me worried a bit for the fate of tool kit. Would that be enough to kick it back into obscurity? I’m not entirely convinced of that, but I’d still be a bit concerned about it.

One alternative thing to think about is that engineers might not be so inclined to take something like tool kit if they weren’t so dependent on taking kits in the first place. If they meaningful alternatives to something like the tool kit, it might be more worthwhile for some builds to not use it in the first place.

3. Healing turret: All suggested adjustments here are moot. The healing “turret” needs to be redesigned from the ground up since it’s not a turret at all. It’s clearly just a glorified water bomb. I don’t need to get into the details here, but the proper “fix” for this healing skill is much, much more complicated that an simple cooldown or cast time adjustment.

Arken.3725:

Just my opinion, only a few things need to be adjusted and it would help significantly.

1. Increase gearshield CD to 30 sec
2. 1/2 to 3/4 cast time to rifle KB
3. Icon to show when the next attack inflicts burning from IP so it can be avoided. And allow it to avoided on the next attack regardless if you hit or miss
4. Reduce slick shoe kd from 3 to 2

1. Too long. Gear shield is about the only defense engineers have. 25 sec maybe, but 30 sec is too high.
2. No. Overcharged shot balances itself by also disabling the engineer. Most rifle skills are only powerful at close range, so the follow-up typically isn’t high damage. Being instant also allows it to be used for defense. If the engineer is avoiding the knockback or stun-breaking it, then they used two skills – can’t you use one (a stun break) to counter it?
3. No. Passive bonus damage just needs to go away as much as possible. Waiting for the trait re-work and official details on burning changes to comment further. In the interim, just lower the duration to 2 seconds per proc.
4. The knockdown is 2 seconds. The puddle duration and skill duration are both 3 seconds. Most people are knocked down multiple by times by successive puddles, not the same puddle. You’d probably want to lower the skill duration.

This is why a discussion with people like Exedore is completely useless. People like the poster above completely ignore any and all changes that are suggested and more than likely agreed upon by most players.

Obvious engie wanting to stay on top.

Edit: when you dismiss all changes suggested, your arguing power tends to plummet.

Pot, meet kettle. I explained why your suggestions were poor. You just didn’t like it, so you’re attacking me.

And just because the mob thinks it doesn’t mean it’s good.