Guild Wars 2

Running around with 14k hp’s as an elementalist with decent toughness 1700 etc. Why does a steal backstab combo take 70 percent of my hp’s. People blowing up in 2 seconds is bad design. You boys have had 6 weeks now to gauge what’s happening. I know you feel like you have to earn your paycheck s by adjusting some random pve bosses telegraphed attack but come on, You’re out of time, wake-up.

You poor poor soul. I definitely understand your frustration, props for playing Ele, do your best to make it work. They take much more effort to be effective than some classes that I will not name. The updates are coming have faith! Whatever you do, just don’t reroll and join the dark side. >.>

Hey, if you read the class designer post still on first page, you’ll notice that not only he finds it fine but he’s “watching closely” those pesky elementalists who were forced to completely kitten themselves and go full thoughness + vitality and full earth + water spec.

Apparently we are not meant to play, we are meant to be 1 shot and then play “spectator mode” while the others have fun.

As a necro with 1700 toughness, I agree with you. I actually saw an 8.2k steal yesterday and it about made me quit altogether. Though I can’t complain as much since necro has higher base health and better defensive skills(death shroud). Anyways stay true and don’t reroll otherwise all we’ll see is effing mesmers and thieves running around telling everyone else they’re bad -_-

Vaerah.4907:

Hey, if you read the class designer post still on first page, you’ll notice that not only he finds it fine but he’s “watching closely” those pesky elementalists who were forced to completely kitten themselves and go full thoughness + vitality and full earth + water spec.

Apparently we are not meant to play, we are meant to be 1 shot and then play “spectator mode” while the others have fun.

you might wanna read that post few more times just to realise what he ment by that

You do know that 14k HP with 1700 toughness is about the same as 18k HP with 900 Toughness, right? As a light armour wearer that is.

I’m not saying that as though it’s some excuse for the ridiculous damage thieves can output in such a short period of time. I’m just trying to point out that big toughness numbers don’t really mean as much unless you have a solid HP pool to back them up, and with 14k you’re just as glass cannon as I am in my 17k/900Toughness build (playing D/D Ele, FYI). You’re actually even more vulnerable to conditions in your build.

Arc.9374:

You do know that 14k HP with 1700 toughness is about the same as 18k HP with 900 Toughness, right? As a light armour wearer that is.

I’m not saying that as though it’s some excuse for the ridiculous damage thieves can output in such a short period of time. I’m just trying to point out that big toughness numbers don’t really mean as much unless you have a solid HP pool to back them up, and with 14k you’re just as glass cannon as I am in my 17k/900Toughness build (playing D/D Ele, FYI). You’re actually even more vulnerable to conditions in your build.

Agree … and that is really the culprit, isn’t it? Ele get to choose between toughness or hp, being very vulnerable to either burst or condition. I feel they are a bit low, but maybe that is just me, but that is perhaps the reason why we/they feel the need to go more for defensive abilities/traits.

Konvoy.6245:

As a necro with 1700 toughness, I agree with you. I actually saw an 8.2k steal yesterday and it about made me quit altogether. Though I can’t complain as much since necro has higher base health and better defensive skills(death shroud). Anyways stay true and don’t reroll otherwise all we’ll see is effing mesmers and thieves running around telling everyone else they’re bad -_-

… You’re bad.

Ha, no, really. People act as if Mesmer Mains play no other class, yet here I am spending more time on my Elementalist now than on my Mesmer.

Then again, I’m an Altaholic. I love getting familiar with different classes and different personalities behind each of them. It’s enthralling and it gives me a wide perspective on the game itself.

So I have to ask: When you’re getting hit with these major crits, on Elementalist specifically. What are you building and doing that’s making you get slammed by a Thief’s crit?

In spite of the complaints of Dagger being so weak, I’m running a D/D cantrip build on my elementalist and I rarely get hit by backstab thieves. I’ve more problem remembering that I can easily break out of their Pistol Whip stun locking than suddenly getting nailed with a 9k crit (It happens, but rarely.) I’m just on the move too much for that with all the mobility skills and knock-ups / knockbacks.

I actually have fun harassing the thief by tripping my CC AoE’s right when they stealth, knowing full well they fall over or had to waste time evading it.

I’ve always been of the opinion that defensiveness in Elementalists comes partly from their mobility, ( / D builds) and partly from their boons and heals. Building toughness on them isn’t the solution to making the more tanky vs building up protections and healing.

It’s very similar to Mesmer in that regard – the defense is in the ability set, not the stats.

Until combo fields become more important, the elementalist traits get an overhaul, and the lackluster utility skills get cleaned up (ex:conjure weapons) I don’t see a good reason to play Ele over other classes. That’s not to say you can’t win any battles or support your team, I just don’t think Ele’s bring anything unique or important to PvP right now.

The day that everyone stops dying in 3 seconds and fights can actually last a little while, the importance of support classes will go up. Also, combo fields need to have stronger effects.

The level of burst damage from certain skills in this game in relation to health pools, make it more like an FPS, just with a really low skill cap, because there is less twitch, no head shots, with gap closers half the work is done for you, plus CC makes it even more of a joke and of course only certain classes can go super glass cannon effectively.

In every MMORPG I’ve played when damage gets too big and the time to kill gets too low, the decent PvPers complain, because it removes the skill aspect of a game type based on many skills, taking note of what buffs/debuffs the opponent has, using appropriate support skills, etc.

If they think this will become an e-sport…

Elyk.3947:

Until combo fields become more important, the elementalist traits get an overhaul, and the lackluster utility skills get cleaned up (ex:conjure weapons) I don’t see a good reason to play Ele over other classes. That’s not to say you can’t win any battles or support your team, I just don’t think Ele’s bring anything unique or important to PvP right now.

I agree to a point, however a bunker ele brings a great amount of CC, group healing, damage soaking and avoidance that it it can really turn a fight. Well played it can be harder to take down than a guardian while providing support for the rest of the team that a guardian couldn’t without being able to run 2 specs at once. Outside of that spec i’m not much of a fan even though i was sure it would be my main when the game launched.

After you made such an impressive and constructive post I have no doubt they will immediately take action.

Double hp pools? That isnt very well thought out. Ele’s would get an extra 10k while warriors get an extra what, 20k? I’d rather have AN fix the biggest offenders first.

Even WoW had the sense to remove Bloodlust from Arenas, which gave ‘only’ 30% haste and was availiable on only one class at that time. Yes, even Blizzard the Faceroll With PvE Gear in PvP company, made this change just for pvp. Before you ignore this and rage at me saying WoW sucks or ‘go play that if u liek it more lol’, read it again.

It isnt exciting when quickness gets popped, the drawbacks dont make up for the insane benefit, and it isnt fun when a large amount of fights is focused on ‘wasting’ the other persons quickness.

Just got hit by a 5200 steal with 2100 toughness …3k armor …that shaman amulet with toughness runes. That’s max toughness. Is this intended? Would really like a response from Dev’s. All other class are fun challenges and even chess games to play against. Thieves that know how to spec are just plain stupid.

Elyk.3947:

Until combo fields become more important, the elementalist traits get an overhaul, and the lackluster utility skills get cleaned up (ex:conjure weapons) I don’t see a good reason to play Ele over other classes. That’s not to say you can’t win any battles or support your team, I just don’t think Ele’s bring anything unique or important to PvP right now.

The day that everyone stops dying in 3 seconds and fights can actually last a little while, the importance of support classes will go up. Also, combo fields need to have stronger effects.

The amount of “Fail” here is incredible. I’m really glad ANet takes everything in this forum with a grain of salt. It’s filled with QQ from people who know nothing about the game but are trying to change it. Elementalists are amazing in tpvp and their combo fields are invaluable.

Some things on elementalist seem like they could use a buff, but I won’t make that call until I’m equal footing on games spent with it as I am my other characters, and even then, it’ll likely just be speculation on one build.

My goals are to find a build that fits me and the ‘character I’m playing’ the most and stick with it and make it as best as it can be. Unlike other people, I won’t waste my time qqing, though I will commentate on intent feedback and try to clear misconceptions when I see them.

For example, for all of Elementalists seeming squishy, it’s usually a matter of being caught off guard/with buffs down. In the middle of the fight I’m rotating a great deal of buffs on and off, and it can keep me in there quite a bit.

Irascible.8210:

Elyk.3947:

Until combo fields become more important, the elementalist traits get an overhaul, and the lackluster utility skills get cleaned up (ex:conjure weapons) I don’t see a good reason to play Ele over other classes. That’s not to say you can’t win any battles or support your team, I just don’t think Ele’s bring anything unique or important to PvP right now.

The day that everyone stops dying in 3 seconds and fights can actually last a little while, the importance of support classes will go up. Also, combo fields need to have stronger effects.

The amount of “Fail” here is incredible. I’m really glad ANet takes everything in this forum with a grain of salt. It’s filled with QQ from people who know nothing about the game but are trying to change it. Elementalists are amazing in tpvp and their combo fields are invaluable.

Yes, everyone takes the 30% longer fire combo fields trait and the conjure weapons because everything in the elementalists arsenal is so awesome. You’re right, there’s nothing wrong with elementalists we should all stop offering our suggestions and giving feedback, nothing good ever comes from that.

Combo fields are key to this game. Often times I cast combo fields into combat just to give my allies the finishers as they may amount to much more then anything I could have done myself.

Perhaps this is the concept that is causing some of the FOTM and OP/UP hype for many classes.

A staff wielding ELE has many ranged AOE combo field spells. A mesmer learns early in his PvE career to utilize combo fields for defense as 2 regular PvE mobs can kill him without the chaos armor combo finisher effect. Most thief abilities are combo finishers so much of the damage you see is a result of another class (whether intentionally or not) setting them up with a combo field. I am not so sure about other classes as I did not understand combo fields before playing the Mesmer (and I have only played an ELE and Theif since).

It took a while for me to understand, but not paying attention to, or knowing when to set up/use combos is roughly equivalent to playing 1/2 of your class.

I just think it’s ridiculous that they think it’s balanced if several classes have ridiculous burst moves.

Pistol Whip and Hundred Blades are ridiculous, I don’t understand how they can justify leaving them in their current state.

Erto, coming out of Beta Weekend 3 i had a terrible time dealing with 100b. I was playing a Necro at the time. Do some google/youtube searches. There are video clips out there from the defenders perspective that explain the move, the setup, and more importantly walk you through the animations of all related abilities so you know exactly when to dodge, counter, stun, or run away.

After watching these, 100b warriors seem sub par when before hand that seemed insurmountable.

@GankSinatra
I think he was simply trying to get that cushion to prevent being blown up by burst from another character without the ability to retaliate.
About three hours ago my wife powered down her pc, walked out of the office and went out to the garden… all without a word. This is unsual behavior for my wife as she always tells me if she’s going to go outside or leave the house. I went outside and asked her what was bothering her. She said a Thief had just killed her in under 4 seconds and she had been able to do so little damage to the thief before she died that she didn’t even see a dent in his health bar.
My wife’s elementalist has a tad over 1.7k toughness and 15.2k or so health. She can’t understand how she can have such good gear with a fair amount of health and tougness and still lose a fight before she hardly has time to react. As she’s too upset to ask without the risk of being banned… had Anet looked into thief burst versus other players with decent toughness and health values? It honestly has to be a bit frustrating to have spent so much time leveling and gearing a certain character/class, due to preference of playstyle and mechanics just to have another class come along and blow you up without you having a chance to retaliate.
I’ve played my guardian since then hoping she doesn’t remember that my main is a thief.

Odrahn,

Are you joking? The PVP in this game is pretty imba (no matter what John says), and shouldn’t be taken seriously at ALL. Sure you can try it, and try to be the best you can, but honestly… this game is so far from an esport at this point it’s laughable. If you want a serious PVP experience with the feel of an MMO, try a MOBA like LoL or DoTA 2.

I know PVP imbalance can be frustrating, but the amount of grave seriousness that you and your wife seem to put on it is disconcerting.

Elyk.3947:

Irascible.8210:

Elyk.3947:

Until combo fields become more important, the elementalist traits get an overhaul, and the lackluster utility skills get cleaned up (ex:conjure weapons) I don’t see a good reason to play Ele over other classes. That’s not to say you can’t win any battles or support your team, I just don’t think Ele’s bring anything unique or important to PvP right now.

The day that everyone stops dying in 3 seconds and fights can actually last a little while, the importance of support classes will go up. Also, combo fields need to have stronger effects.

The amount of “Fail” here is incredible. I’m really glad ANet takes everything in this forum with a grain of salt. It’s filled with QQ from people who know nothing about the game but are trying to change it. Elementalists are amazing in tpvp and their combo fields are invaluable.

Yes, everyone takes the 30% longer fire combo fields trait and the conjure weapons because everything in the elementalists arsenal is so awesome. You’re right, there’s nothing wrong with elementalists we should all stop offering our suggestions and giving feedback, nothing good ever comes from that.

Further proving that you don’t know jack about pvp and need to kitten along with 90% of the people on this forum. The conjured bow is currently one of the best ways to down the enemy trebuchet in Battle of Khylo. The combo field extension is being used by staff eles and burst eles to provide heavy might stacks to the entire team on point. Balance isn’t defined by making everything amazing for everything. Just because YOU don’t know how to play or don’t understand a specific functionality doesn’t mean that the game is broken.

Look at this forum’s front page. It’s clutter and garbage mixed in with more clutter and garbage. Because of people like YOU, there’s less than a handful of decent discussions happening in this forum.

This game is amazingly well balanced and the only dire need is a few bug fixes and mechanical tweaks to prevent some of the dirtier tactics.

I have to agree, I’ve become so frustrated tonight in pvp that I’m considering quitting the game.

I have a lot of experience pvp’ing in this game and others and must say it’s FAR more out of whack than that post or the devs will admit. I may quit all together to be honest. I’ve stacked a good mix of toughness and vitality / power and precision etc on my elementalist and my necro and I get demolished by thieves and mesmers…warriors are right behind them. Unkillable guardians, check.

It’s not balanced. To die in steal, cloak and dagger, backstab, is broken. To not be able to hit a mesmer is broken. To run out of dodges and have a warrior destroy you is broken. The game has been out for far too long to still be this broken, ESPECIALLY since the devs outright deny any balance issues.

I logged on my thief again tonight out of frustration and absolutely demolished people again…anyone who says the game is balanced is playing one of the god-mode three or four classes.

I feel the most sorry for eles and necros, although a bit for everyone who’s not a thief, mesmer, warrior, or somewhat a guardian.

Look at this forum’s front page. It’s clutter and garbage mixed in with more clutter and garbage. Because of people like YOU, there’s less than a handful of decent discussions happening in this forum.

No, it’s cluttered because there’s SEVERE balance issues.

Baconbelly.9481:

Running around with 14k hp’s as an elementalist with decent toughness 1700 etc. Why does a steal backstab combo take 70 percent of my hp’s. People blowing up in 2 seconds is bad design. You boys have had 6 weeks now to gauge what’s happening. I know you feel like you have to earn your paycheck s by adjusting some random pve bosses telegraphed attack but come on, You’re out of time, wake-up.

You’re a squishy elementalist and you’re complaining about being blown up by a class and build specifically designed for massive single hits? I’ve seen bunker ele’s kite thiefs around endlessly. Most classes don’t die in seconds and especially not from a single person unless they’re built on pure glass, have no cooldowns, and aren’t paying attention. Blowing up the people in 2 seconds that are designed to blow people up in 2 seconds is great design. It’s called balance – You aim for heavy damage, you lose survivability. Toughness without any HP is pretty worthless. Pick up more defensive utilities and either go full glass and learn how to survive or make a survival spec.

The eles I play with don’t die in seconds.

deapee.7516:

Look at this forum’s front page. It’s clutter and garbage mixed in with more clutter and garbage. Because of people like YOU, there’s less than a handful of decent discussions happening in this forum.

No, it’s cluttered because there’s SEVERE balance issues.

And the circlejerk comes round again: Learn to kittening play.

Name one class that is extremely weak. Go ahead. I’ll give you situations and scenarios in which that class brings something to the table that no other class can in tpvp.

Odrahn, 15.2k health for an elementalist in spvp is really low. 1.7k toughness is ok, but nothing to write home about. Those sort of glass cannon specs work really well in pve, but in pvp not so much. I finally put my elementalist to the spvp test today. 2.2k toughness, 20,000 health, 30/30/10 Water/Arcane/Earth build. I died 1 time in 3 matches.

just the name of the topic made my day
defenzive play is what is winning games in tournaments. Defensive bunker ele can easily hold 3 guys and just laught at them.. same for guardian an on top of that they still do quite decent dmg. In fact elementalist by AOE so its powerfull enough.
its kind of boring that conquest mechanic is driving everyone to go turtle specs !!

Im sick of this 2-pop game aswell. PvP is all about either being a glasscannon and blowing people up in 2seconds (hell, less then a second is even possible).
Or playing a bunker build, just so you can not get blown up in 2seconds and counter glasscannons.

And some profession are just more rediculous then others. Lets not pretend it isnt. I just ate over 9000 damage from a Thief, and got stomped by that thief before he even came out of stealth.

Im done with PvP in this game, its not skillfull at all. Its a matter of rolling your professions Glasscannon build, pop quickness and blow ppl up with 2 buttons. Yah, real fun.

Bombul please explain to us what gear in spvp you’re using to get 2.2k toughness, 20k hp’s. You can only get that much toughness with the shaman’s amulet, which has zero +hp’s. If you’re getting 20k hp then you’re not going to have any healing on you’re gear. What the heck is the point of 10 30 30 without healing? Hey look the guy that doens’t die but is worthless to his team. I’m talking about viable builds not Unicorn ranches.

What the heck is the point of 10 30 30 without healing?

2% damage per boon at 25 water. In a D/D build you’re pretty much rolling 5 boons minimum in combat (Fury/Swiftness/Regen/Vigor/Might) with options for 2 more (Stability/Protection).

There’s 10% more damage.

Having near permanent uptime on Fury alone is 20% more crit chance.

Might runs at minimum 3 stacks, frequently at 6-7, occasionally higher. 3 stacks from first attunement swap using Sigil or Battle, a further 3stacks from 2nd attunement swap 9s later, 1 stack if you switch into Fire, any excess from blast finishing into Fire Fields. Either way, 10 seconds into the fight you’re not going to drop below 6 stacks unless you get boon stripped.

If you’re using Sigil of Minor Accuracy that’s another 14% crit chance at max stacks.

In any case, the +healing from Water is a secondary effect. The primary focus is the synergy the tree provides with D/D Aura Builds, or the condition removal and cantrip synergy for non-Aura builds.

Compared to a more burst-oriented build, I’m sure the damage isn’t much to write home about if you’re stacking up to 20k HP and 2.2k Toughness, but you’re not going to be complete dead weight.

Arc.9374:

What the heck is the point of 10 30 30 without healing?

2% damage per boon at 25 water. In a D/D build you’re pretty much rolling 5 boons minimum in combat (Fury/Swiftness/Regen/Vigor/Might) with options for 2 more (Stability/Protection).

There’s 10% more damage.

Having near permanent uptime on Fury alone is 20% more crit chance.

Might runs at minimum 3 stacks, frequently at 6-7, occasionally higher. 3 stacks from first attunement swap using Sigil or Battle, a further 3stacks from 2nd attunement swap 9s later, 1 stack if you switch into Fire, any excess from blast finishing into Fire Fields. Either way, 10 seconds into the fight you’re not going to drop below 6 stacks unless you get boon stripped.

If you’re using Sigil of Minor Accuracy that’s another 14% crit chance at max stacks.

In any case, the +healing from Water is a secondary effect. The primary focus is the synergy the tree provides with D/D Aura Builds, or the condition removal and cantrip synergy for non-Aura builds.

Compared to a more burst-oriented build, I’m sure the damage isn’t much to write home about if you’re stacking up to 20k HP and 2.2k Toughness, but you’re not going to be complete dead weight.

I call bull. On your 20k HP and 2.2 Toughness. on an Ele. Post a pic of this build. On a Necro you can hit 2.2 Toughness if you run Shaman, and back it up with traits and runes on top of that, and your health will be about 20k hp. But a Necro already starts with about that much health. There is no way your getting that on a Ele.

Angry flying squirrel, he can’t post the build or screenshot becasue it doens’t exist. The best you could hope for is a shaman’s amulet, which with a 10 30 30 build gives you about 1900 toughness. That build gives you 13,800 hp’s without runes. Now are you going to rune toughness to get it to around 2100 and have 13,800 hp or rune vitality which gets you up to about 15,500. There is no build for an elementalist with 2.2k toughness and 20k hp’s in spvp as you have pointed out. The reason he doens’t know this is that he’s a thief defending the idiocy of the steal backstab build being fine.

I’m not the one claiming to be able to get there.

IMO the damage tradeoff for that kind of survivability isn’t worth it. I was simply pointing out that with at least 25 water you’re not going to be complete dead weight (dependant on the rest of your build).

You don’t simply increase the HP pool because death is crowd control too.

Angry Flying Squirrel.3041:

I call bull. On your 20k HP and 2.2 Toughness. on an Ele. Post a pic of this build.

http://i.imgur.com/0Ni27.jpg

Your move, champ. Tired of people like you spreading their ignorance on these forums.