Guild Wars 2

So I was thinking about my experience playing recently, and realized I only occasionally even bother trying to read opponent telegraphs too much anymore. This is even after trying to actively work on paying attention to telegraphs and not waste dodges. Of course, there are some skills that are very important to dodge, but these are few and far between. Most of the big bursts or cc’s (to set up that burst) nowadays are straight instant cast or essentially instant, and every class is an offender. There aren’t many specific skills where you say “oh, I need to pay attention to X, that really led to my death.” Fights used to rely more on dodges, requiring close attention for key skills. Nowadays, it seems fight are about simply positioning and proper rotation of skills, with a few random dodges sprinkled in (hoping to predict when your opponent is going to use that big burst).

Not only is the issue of too much instant damage frustrating for players, who have a hard time diagnosing exactly what led to their death, it is also an issue for viewers. As a viewer, when big plays come from piling up a bunch of instant and no cast-time skills, the combat becomes very hard to follow and cast. I am no expert at LoL or Smite, but I can watch these games and watch the character models go through large telegraphs at the same time casters are going “HERE COMES THE PAIN TRAIN!!!” With GW2, casting is usually left giving after-the-fact analysis “HE JUST ATE THAT INSTANT CC, THEN HE GOT SHATTERED!” Viewers aren’t witnessing the action unfold while someone commentates in real time, they just see stuff flash on the screen before the casters interpret what just happened.

Therefore, say no to all the instants, procs, and poor animations that plague pvp after a few years of power-creep. Support a return to “large effects have large animations.” It will make the game both more fun and more viewable.

It’s hard to say just how many actual instant skills this game is being designed around because there are so many unlisted mechanisms that allow for skills to not respect the aftercast delays. This is the game that deleted its steady weapons instead of making them soul bound and valueless.

too much visual effects.

This is the reason I hate thieves, shatter mesmers and Fresh Air elementalists. Note: I’m not calling them OP. But while people are busy complaining about how taboo AI is (that at least you can see and predict), certain set ups are all about unexpected instant abilities. Specifically thief and zerker builds that run air/fire, you basically just have to expect it’ll hit you unless they aren’t being very careful themselves. (And afaik crit sigils can’t even be wasted on poor timing like swap sigils can) Shatter often releases big bursts out of stealth if they run torch which can be decently hard to predict, so you end up blowing dodges in hopes to get lucky.

And the king of instant → FA ele where they can literally blow their lid in a second and nearly instagib you.

I mean… They are balanced around being paper themselves, but that essentially turns those fights into 2 second random dodge and burst sessions and hope you were the lucky one. I just generally think it’s a poor design just as much as AI, but that’s just me.

Thieves have a lot… From weapon skills to utilities…

In before angry thieves flaming me…

I don’t mind some instant casts in the game. I play with rifle engie and can kinda anticipate OS against other engies based on where they are in context to me. I don’t like how warriors are so easy to play against because they’re so telegraphable, and I don’t think making all abilities have telegraphs would make the gameplay slower and clunkier like it did with warrior. On the other hand, I do see why spamming headshot, interrupt mantra, and OS can be annoying and frustrating to others.

SobeSoul.6910:

I don’t mind some instant casts in the game. I play with rifle engie and can kinda anticipate OS against other engies based on where they are in context to me. I don’t like how warriors are so easy to play against because they’re so telegraphable, and I don’t think making all abilities have telegraphs would make the gameplay slower and clunkier like it did with warrior. On the other hand, I do see why spamming headshot, interrupt mantra, and OS can be annoying and frustrating to others.

HS is annoying why? you can spam it.

Interrupt Mantra? Every use has a mini cd, AND Don’t forget the recharge.

StickerHappy.8052:

SobeSoul.6910:

I don’t mind some instant casts in the game. I play with rifle engie and can kinda anticipate OS against other engies based on where they are in context to me. I don’t like how warriors are so easy to play against because they’re so telegraphable, and I don’t think making all abilities have telegraphs would make the gameplay slower and clunkier like it did with warrior. On the other hand, I do see why spamming headshot, interrupt mantra, and OS can be annoying and frustrating to others.

HS is annoying why? you can spam it.

Interrupt Mantra? Every use has a mini cd, AND Don’t forget the recharge.

Regardless of it’s 4s CD (maybe it is 5) it along with other stuff doesn’t have much counterplay besides random dodges. Like I said, I don’t mind it that much, but can see why it bothers other players.

Trickery Steal the most overpowered skill in the game.

SobeSoul.6910:

I don’t mind some instant casts in the game. I play with rifle engie and can kinda anticipate OS against other engies based on where they are in context to me. I don’t like how warriors are so easy to play against because they’re so telegraphable, and I don’t think making all abilities have telegraphs would make the gameplay slower and clunkier like it did with warrior. On the other hand, I do see why spamming headshot, interrupt mantra, and OS can be annoying and frustrating to others.

Thing is, that SHOULD be Warriors weakness BUT the same principles should definitely apply to other classes too.

BlackTruth.6813:

SobeSoul.6910:

I don’t mind some instant casts in the game. I play with rifle engie and can kinda anticipate OS against other engies based on where they are in context to me. I don’t like how warriors are so easy to play against because they’re so telegraphable, and I don’t think making all abilities have telegraphs would make the gameplay slower and clunkier like it did with warrior. On the other hand, I do see why spamming headshot, interrupt mantra, and OS can be annoying and frustrating to others.

Thing is, that SHOULD be Warriors weakness BUT the same principles should definitely apply to other classes too.

Yeah. I’m not saying they shouldn’t be telegraphed. Just the telegraphs on some things feel too big, and shorter ones would lead to a less clunky playstyle.

SobeSoul.6910:

BlackTruth.6813:

SobeSoul.6910:

I don’t mind some instant casts in the game. I play with rifle engie and can kinda anticipate OS against other engies based on where they are in context to me. I don’t like how warriors are so easy to play against because they’re so telegraphable, and I don’t think making all abilities have telegraphs would make the gameplay slower and clunkier like it did with warrior. On the other hand, I do see why spamming headshot, interrupt mantra, and OS can be annoying and frustrating to others.

Thing is, that SHOULD be Warriors weakness BUT the same principles should definitely apply to other classes too.

Yeah. I’m not saying they shouldn’t be telegraphed. Just the telegraphs on some things feel too big, and shorter ones would lead to a less clunky playstyle.

Seems like based on reaction times in conjunction with expected lag, most skills should be between .5 second cast and 1 second.

Average reaction time is about .26 seconds. Add a bit for display differences, and then a bit of time to recognize the animation, I’d say .5-1 second sounds about right. I don’t see much reason in having classes with excessive instant attacks. Really there’s almost no reason for it… Only things that really need much lower of a cast time are reaction defenses/cc breaks and interrupts (so long as the interrupt isn’t too powerful, IE headshot.)

Thats just my feeling anyways. If an ability needs to be instant so that its worth using, increase the cast time but make it stronger, pretty easy concept I’d think.

But to be honest, I think we’re on the wrong boat if we expect more meaningful interaction. So much of this game is entirely passive and RNG, instants are just another ingredient into the chaos soup.

SobeSoul.6910:

StickerHappy.8052:

SobeSoul.6910:

I don’t mind some instant casts in the game. I play with rifle engie and can kinda anticipate OS against other engies based on where they are in context to me. I don’t like how warriors are so easy to play against because they’re so telegraphable, and I don’t think making all abilities have telegraphs would make the gameplay slower and clunkier like it did with warrior. On the other hand, I do see why spamming headshot, interrupt mantra, and OS can be annoying and frustrating to others.

HS is annoying why? you can spam it.

Interrupt Mantra? Every use has a mini cd, AND Don’t forget the recharge.

Regardless of it’s 4s CD (maybe it is 5) it along with other stuff doesn’t have much counterplay besides random dodges. Like I said, I don’t mind it that much, but can see why it bothers other players.

The recharge is counterplay? 2.5 seconds the mesmer is vulnerable to all types of CC. Isn’t that called counterplay? Mantra has only 2 charges, the mesmer needs to be super accurate to use it on important skills to make sure it is not wasted.

Thief Headshot on the other hand… As long as you have initiative…spam it all the way…

StickerHappy.8052:

SobeSoul.6910:

StickerHappy.8052:

SobeSoul.6910:

I don’t mind some instant casts in the game. I play with rifle engie and can kinda anticipate OS against other engies based on where they are in context to me. I don’t like how warriors are so easy to play against because they’re so telegraphable, and I don’t think making all abilities have telegraphs would make the gameplay slower and clunkier like it did with warrior. On the other hand, I do see why spamming headshot, interrupt mantra, and OS can be annoying and frustrating to others.

HS is annoying why? you can spam it.

Interrupt Mantra? Every use has a mini cd, AND Don’t forget the recharge.

Regardless of it’s 4s CD (maybe it is 5) it along with other stuff doesn’t have much counterplay besides random dodges. Like I said, I don’t mind it that much, but can see why it bothers other players.

The recharge is counterplay? 2.5 seconds the mesmer is vulnerable to all types of CC. Isn’t that called counterplay? Mantra has only 2 charges, the mesmer needs to be super accurate to use it on important skills to make sure it is not wasted.

Thief Headshot on the other hand… As long as you have initiative…spam it all the way…

That’s what torch is for :P Stealth, recharge, pew pew moar.

ronpierce.2760:

StickerHappy.8052:

SobeSoul.6910:

StickerHappy.8052:

SobeSoul.6910:

I don’t mind some instant casts in the game. I play with rifle engie and can kinda anticipate OS against other engies based on where they are in context to me. I don’t like how warriors are so easy to play against because they’re so telegraphable, and I don’t think making all abilities have telegraphs would make the gameplay slower and clunkier like it did with warrior. On the other hand, I do see why spamming headshot, interrupt mantra, and OS can be annoying and frustrating to others.

HS is annoying why? you can spam it.

Interrupt Mantra? Every use has a mini cd, AND Don’t forget the recharge.

Regardless of it’s 4s CD (maybe it is 5) it along with other stuff doesn’t have much counterplay besides random dodges. Like I said, I don’t mind it that much, but can see why it bothers other players.

The recharge is counterplay? 2.5 seconds the mesmer is vulnerable to all types of CC. Isn’t that called counterplay? Mantra has only 2 charges, the mesmer needs to be super accurate to use it on important skills to make sure it is not wasted.

Thief Headshot on the other hand… As long as you have initiative…spam it all the way…

That’s what torch is for :P Stealth, recharge, pew pew moar.

What? Yes you have a point. But who in their right mind would always use torch 4 exclusively to charge a mantra?

Mantras on its current state is also trash.

StickerHappy.8052:

SobeSoul.6910:

StickerHappy.8052:

SobeSoul.6910:

I don’t mind some instant casts in the game. I play with rifle engie and can kinda anticipate OS against other engies based on where they are in context to me. I don’t like how warriors are so easy to play against because they’re so telegraphable, and I don’t think making all abilities have telegraphs would make the gameplay slower and clunkier like it did with warrior. On the other hand, I do see why spamming headshot, interrupt mantra, and OS can be annoying and frustrating to others.

HS is annoying why? you can spam it.

Interrupt Mantra? Every use has a mini cd, AND Don’t forget the recharge.

Regardless of it’s 4s CD (maybe it is 5) it along with other stuff doesn’t have much counterplay besides random dodges. Like I said, I don’t mind it that much, but can see why it bothers other players.

The recharge is counterplay? 2.5 seconds the mesmer is vulnerable to all types of CC. Isn’t that called counterplay? Mantra has only 2 charges, the mesmer needs to be super accurate to use it on important skills to make sure it is not wasted.

Thief Headshot on the other hand… As long as you have initiative…spam it all the way…

Pretty much change the title of this thread to

“To many thieves, not enough telegraphs”

;D

Ross Biddle.2367:

StickerHappy.8052:

SobeSoul.6910:

StickerHappy.8052:

SobeSoul.6910:

I don’t mind some instant casts in the game. I play with rifle engie and can kinda anticipate OS against other engies based on where they are in context to me. I don’t like how warriors are so easy to play against because they’re so telegraphable, and I don’t think making all abilities have telegraphs would make the gameplay slower and clunkier like it did with warrior. On the other hand, I do see why spamming headshot, interrupt mantra, and OS can be annoying and frustrating to others.

HS is annoying why? you can spam it.

Interrupt Mantra? Every use has a mini cd, AND Don’t forget the recharge.

Regardless of it’s 4s CD (maybe it is 5) it along with other stuff doesn’t have much counterplay besides random dodges. Like I said, I don’t mind it that much, but can see why it bothers other players.

The recharge is counterplay? 2.5 seconds the mesmer is vulnerable to all types of CC. Isn’t that called counterplay? Mantra has only 2 charges, the mesmer needs to be super accurate to use it on important skills to make sure it is not wasted.

Thief Headshot on the other hand… As long as you have initiative…spam it all the way…

Pretty much change the title of this thread to

“To many thieves, not enough telegraphs”

;D

For now, this is actually kind of true, but even if thieves were removed from the equation, it would be replaced with other instant bursters like FA Ele and Shatter Mesmers, who tend to only be less existent atm due to their weakness to thief (the king roamer, essentially).

While thieves are certainly high on the list of culprits, almost EVERY class has very strong offensive attacks that are nearly instant:

Eles: lightning strikes, phoenix (melee range), lightning flash, arcanes, updraft
Mesmers: stealth bursts, mantras, properly executed sword bursts (I liked when iLeap had an animation)
Thieves: Stealth bursts, steal, shadowstep…basically every skill except Hide in Shadows, heartseeker, and sword 3 (either set)
Engineers: Overcharged shot, IP, melee-range grenades (arguably)
Guardians: Hammer trait, judge’s intervention, smite condition (other medis are defensive)
Necros: Doom, chill of death (dieing to power necros usually translates to simply being procc’d to death)
Ranger: Point blank shot, entangle’s animation is very poor while moving
Warrior: Probably the only class without an incredibly strong skill instant-cast

And then, of course, every class has air/fire procs.

Because every class can either instantly burst or instantly cc to set up burst, dodges aren’t really used in reaction to an animation, but predictively based on the playstyle of your opponents. Not only does this massively raise the learning curve (fights are more about prediction than reaction), but also hurts viewability.

Now, having SOME instant skills can be a o.k., and is necessary with the stealth mechanics of this game (fresh air bursts needs to be instant or it is farmed by thieves of all levels, not just the best ones, for instance), I feel it kind of hurts the game. If this game is to truly grow, some of the strongest instant skills need to be given some kind of cast-time. At the same time, access to dodges would need to be toned down, so that random dodging is discouraged and can be highly punished. As it is, the use of dodges/invulns is much less skillful than it should be, imo.

ronpierce.2760:

Ross Biddle.2367:

StickerHappy.8052:

SobeSoul.6910:

StickerHappy.8052:

SobeSoul.6910:

I don’t mind some instant casts in the game. I play with rifle engie and can kinda anticipate OS against other engies based on where they are in context to me. I don’t like how warriors are so easy to play against because they’re so telegraphable, and I don’t think making all abilities have telegraphs would make the gameplay slower and clunkier like it did with warrior. On the other hand, I do see why spamming headshot, interrupt mantra, and OS can be annoying and frustrating to others.

HS is annoying why? you can spam it.

Interrupt Mantra? Every use has a mini cd, AND Don’t forget the recharge.

Regardless of it’s 4s CD (maybe it is 5) it along with other stuff doesn’t have much counterplay besides random dodges. Like I said, I don’t mind it that much, but can see why it bothers other players.

The recharge is counterplay? 2.5 seconds the mesmer is vulnerable to all types of CC. Isn’t that called counterplay? Mantra has only 2 charges, the mesmer needs to be super accurate to use it on important skills to make sure it is not wasted.

Thief Headshot on the other hand… As long as you have initiative…spam it all the way…

Pretty much change the title of this thread to

“To many thieves, not enough telegraphs”

;D

For now, this is actually kind of true, but even if thieves were removed from the equation, it would be replaced with other instant bursters like FA Ele and Shatter Mesmers, who tend to only be less existent atm due to their weakness to thief (the king roamer, essentially).

Shatter mes isnt instant in the way thief skills/utils are. The shatter skills themselves are to a degree, but the clones need to be on top of the target for the effect to be instant, and the potency is dependent on the number available. Even IP requires the mesmer to be on top of the target. Now, for the mes to do his signature “burst” he has to run through a whole huge setup that doesn’t happen with the push of a single button. You can see it coming, and have time to mitigate.

As for Fresh Air ele’s, they’ve got the instant casts, but have other drawbacks.

Ross Biddle.2367:

ronpierce.2760:

Ross Biddle.2367:

StickerHappy.8052:

SobeSoul.6910:

StickerHappy.8052:

SobeSoul.6910:

I don’t mind some instant casts in the game. I play with rifle engie and can kinda anticipate OS against other engies based on where they are in context to me. I don’t like how warriors are so easy to play against because they’re so telegraphable, and I don’t think making all abilities have telegraphs would make the gameplay slower and clunkier like it did with warrior. On the other hand, I do see why spamming headshot, interrupt mantra, and OS can be annoying and frustrating to others.

HS is annoying why? you can spam it.

Interrupt Mantra? Every use has a mini cd, AND Don’t forget the recharge.

Regardless of it’s 4s CD (maybe it is 5) it along with other stuff doesn’t have much counterplay besides random dodges. Like I said, I don’t mind it that much, but can see why it bothers other players.

The recharge is counterplay? 2.5 seconds the mesmer is vulnerable to all types of CC. Isn’t that called counterplay? Mantra has only 2 charges, the mesmer needs to be super accurate to use it on important skills to make sure it is not wasted.

Thief Headshot on the other hand… As long as you have initiative…spam it all the way…

Pretty much change the title of this thread to

“To many thieves, not enough telegraphs”

;D

For now, this is actually kind of true, but even if thieves were removed from the equation, it would be replaced with other instant bursters like FA Ele and Shatter Mesmers, who tend to only be less existent atm due to their weakness to thief (the king roamer, essentially).

Shatter mes isnt instant in the way thief skills/utils are. The shatter skills themselves are to a degree, but the clones need to be on top of the target for the effect to be instant, and the potency is dependent on the number available. Even IP requires the mesmer to be on top of the target. Now, for the mes to do his signature “burst” he has to run through a whole huge setup that doesn’t happen with the push of a single button. You can see it coming, and have time to mitigate.

As for Fresh Air ele’s, they’ve got the instant casts, but have other drawbacks.

I’m not discussing draw backs. I understand they are somewhat balanced around it, but that isn’t my point. FA Ele can do way too much instant damage that doesn’t allow for real reaction which leads to luck fights and/or instagibbing. Sure, they’re paper, but the build itself, wreck or be wrecked doesn’t really set up interesting play if you ask me. Shatter, sort of similar but not quite as bad.