Guild Wars 2

A-Net you’ve made legendary rank a joke. Please consider shortening the seasons as players can’t just brute force their way up the ranks.

There should be a limited number of players in Legendary. Like if you are not in the top 500, you drop back to Diamond. Increase rewards for Legendary game wins, and then a final reward for staying in Lege until the end of the season.

This seasons matchmaking has nothing to do with skill, contrary to what Anet is saying.. it’s noobs fighting noobs and getting to legendary. It’s a grind.

Leagues are a joke,always have been. People are so stupid, that a simple label on a old system will make people think that what they are doing is competitive.

Leagues are nothing but a glorified version of the old grind system we used to have, Arena Net just offered a incentive via legendary wings.

Shows how ignorant and stupid the pvp community is, that they really think leagues require skill and each division reflects skill.

Game is hardly balanced period.

Dariya.9380:

This seasons matchmaking has nothing to do with skill, contrary to what Anet is saying.. it’s noobs fighting noobs and getting to legendary. It’s a grind.

not really.

we still have plenty of people complaining that they are stuck in emerald / sapphire / ruby / diamond.

league system is fine as it is.

It dosen’t take any skill to win pvp
All you do is load a build with condi and passive procs
also premade farming solo players is still a thing sooo much esports

Oh look.. first leagues was “skill” based and now they arent? What happened guyz?

Dariya.9380:

This seasons matchmaking has nothing to do with skill, contrary to what Anet is saying.. it’s noobs fighting noobs and getting to legendary. It’s a grind.

It IS a grind,and every match felt the same.I didnt play this season but i did last season,made it to diamond with warri only and i got bored to tears so i stopped.I couldn’t endure that grind anymore,every kitten match is the exact same with the same comps.

Burtnik.5218:

Oh look.. first leagues was “skill” based and now they arent? What happened guyz?

More people got to legendary and now there aren’t as many special snowflakes around.

The leagues are one giant reward track this season, changing it midway wont suddenly make getting the wings and legendary titles any more prestigious. Wait until the next season with a new set of titles and wings then make it more difficult to climb the divisions.

Leagues are still somewhat a Non Zero Sum game, so we all succeed or fail collectively at attaining Legend. As more people rise in Rank it can potentially get easier for certain players to rise. The first season was completely Non Zero Sum. The more the merrier, we helped each-other attain legend.

This season has an element of Zero Sum-ness, in that the matchmaker groups people by MMR, which kind of makes it so 5 players excel by knocking 5 other players down. Still, you can only loose 1 pip for loosing and gain more than 1 for winning on a streak. Because of this streaking, it becomes slightly non zero sum. Collectively we, as a community, gain more pips than we loose.

Be careful what you ask for. If they made it a completely zero sum game, the tears would be atrocious. The premades and ESL players would most likely lock everyone out of the higher leagues. Many would not even make it to Sapphire.

In starcraft 2, only the top 200 players from europe server are allowed to get in Grandmaster league. Two main difference is that in starcraft 2 you can lose the grandmaster league if you lose too much or if you don’t play enough, and in addition to that the matchmaking is much more accurated, meaning the more you win the more strong opponents you get, so it’s almost impossible to reach ridicoulous amount of win streak unless you are a korean progamer. But the main difference on that type of game, is that the skill difference from a top diamond and a grandmaster is abyssal, in this game instead there are too many other factors, like team/comp/bad balancing/ hardcounters between classes, making the difference of skill between top diamond and legendary very thin.
So i also agree that a legendary player should be punished by loosing league if playing bad or not playing at all. But i also think anet should first focus on classes balance before adjusting the matchmaking/league system. If classes are well balanced around 1v1 (meaning that every class has the same chance to win a duel against all the others classes) then the matchmaking would be easy to fix. Unfortunately, they decided to go in the holy trinity classes role direction, this means the game won’t be ever balanced and less skill oriented cuz they want to balance in a comp direction instead.

Frankly, it’s already better than first season. I would like to see tier loss being possible in saphire to get a better repartition of players in leagues in the end of the season (you’re basically one-shotting anyone with a thief in saphire if you start the season late, I’m sure better players should be there), but other than that, I think it’s fine. You notice the difference between ruby and diamond very clearly, so I assume with one more unforgiving division, it would be good.

No its not … X vs X isn’t better than the S1 algorithm; also don’t confuse the meta with the algorithm, there are two different thing.

if you think this league system is a joke pls stop playing it.

yep there should be a limited number of legendaries. and rank1 legendaries should not play against rank 10 legendaries

They just need to make all Divisions lose able, then you would get a league system based on skill

What do you mean? Wasnt it the general consensus that everyone needs to reach legendary just to make everyone happy?

If they dont reach legendary they are stuck in MMR hell. MMR hell isnt good and it will make them quit. So better get all out of MMR hell and in to legendary!

They should just match ppl based on their league and tier

Locuz.2651:

What do you mean? Wasnt it the general consensus that everyone needs to reach legendary just to make everyone happy?

If they dont reach legendary they are stuck in MMR hell. MMR hell isnt good and it will make them quit. So better get all out of MMR hell and in to legendary!

Clearly, and if they lose its 100% always because my teammates not doing anything and running around like headless chickens. The OP is always the top tier player and deserves legendary but stuck in Ruby/Diamond because A-Net secretly hand picks his teammates to make sure he loses and do on a 24/7 basis and throw only pro-league pre-made team players as his opponents.

Lord Hammer Hand.4815:

if you think this league system is a joke pls stop playing it.

Thank you very much I took your advice about a week ago and been playing ESO and Smite and have been loving life since! Have fun we your highly noncompetitive rank arenas, I evolved as a gamer and grown from casual grind fest to competitive tooth and nail battles to the end. Even the Cyrodiil battles in ESO are more competitive then the WvW battles in GW2. Like I said loving life in gaming again.

Forestgreen.7981:

Clearly, and if they lose its 100% always because my teammates not doing anything and running around like headless chickens. The OP is always the top tier player and deserves legendary but stuck in Ruby/Diamond because A-Net secretly hand picks his teammates to make sure he loses and do on a 24/7 basis and throw only pro-league pre-made team players as his opponents.

Thats it.

That’s what you get for rewarding wins and not punishing losses. (winstreaks and division safe nets)

Burn.5401:

That’s what you get for rewarding wins and not punishing losses. (winstreaks and division safe nets)

Hm, but pips are a kind of currency that is traded between players. At the beginning of the season, there are zero pips in the economy. In your way, The only mechanism to add pips to the economy would be by beating players in Amber who have no pips.

In this way no one would make it to Legendary and the queue times would be infinite at the higher levels, unless you wanted to make it so Legendaries can vs Amber players… I don’t think anyone wants that.

As it stands, anytime someone is beaten with 0 pips and the start of a new league, pips are added to the economy. The are also added when players break loosing streaks and get on win streaks. If we reduce the rate at which pips are added, gaps within a pip range could form and the range for finding competitors would need to be increased causing unfair and unbalanced matches.

So exactly how many legendaries should there be?

Funny how most S1 legendaries are stocking to their primordial legend title. Lol

Fivedawgs.4267:

Funny how most S1 legendaries are stocking to their primordial legend title. Lol

Its just that primordial legend sounds better….has nothing to do with the it being more prestigious.

Locuz.2651:

Fivedawgs.4267:

Funny how most S1 legendaries are stocking to their primordial legend title. Lol

Its just that primordial legend sounds better….has nothing to do with the it being more prestigious.

Well, thats your opinion. Based on what i have gathered on the forums and in the lobby,, S! primordial title is more prestigious than exalted legend. Like, where is the prestige in something that can be acquired in 22 hours title?? or 3 days?

Fivedawgs.4267:

Well, that’s your opinion; Based on the post and my experience in the lobby, we have more legendary this season than the last one. So yeah,

I think you forgot that last season ppl got there by teaming up with fresh f2p accounts over and over -> farming sapphire and ruby max players.

AND

Literally all of my friends told me they think primordial legend just sounds better.

So in my eyes its a matter of taste in terms of the title…thats all there is to it.

Locuz.2651:

Fivedawgs.4267:

Well, that’s your opinion; Based on the post and my experience in the lobby, we have more legendary this season than the last one. So yeah,

I think you forgot that last season ppl got there by teaming up with fresh f2p accounts over and over -> farming sapphire and ruby max players.

AND

Literally all of my friends told me they think primordial legend just sounds better.

So in my eyes its a matter of taste in terms of the title…thats all there is to it.

So which part of my statement are you disagreeing with?

1- I think you forgot that last season ppl got there by teaming up with fresh f2p accounts over and over -> farming sapphire and ruby max players.

Maybe because it was hard to get, hence people had to recourse to draconian tactics to get there?

Look, i believe we both know what prestige means.

Fivedawgs.4267:

Maybe because it was hard to get, hence people had to recourse to draconian tactics to get there?

Hell no… it wasnt harder at all. It just took a bit longer tho due to the lack of the bonus pips.

I played till legend on 2+ accounts both season so i have first hand experience.

Locuz.2651:

Fivedawgs.4267:

Maybe because it was hard to get, hence people had to recourse to draconian tactics to get there?

Hell no… it wasnt harder at all. Ot took a bit longer tho due to the lack of the bonus pips.

I played till legend on 2+ accounts both season so i have first hand experience.

Then why you said this :

I think you forgot that last season ppl got there by teaming up with fresh f2p accounts over and over → farming sapphire and ruby max players.

Can you please explain to me why would anyone do this, if legendary as you stated wasn’t hard to reach? or maybe why most streamers had to TEAM UP to get to legendary last season?

Also, which part of my original statement are you having trouble with?? i could careless about your hands on experience or whatever. We both know what prestige means , so show me where i am wrong.

Fivedawgs.4267:

Then why you said this :

I think you forgot that last season ppl got there by teaming up with fresh f2p accounts over and over -> farming sapphire and ruby max players.

Can you please explain to me why would anyone do this, if legendary as you stated wasn’t hard to reach? or maybe why most streamers had to TEAM UP to get to legendary last season?

Also, which part of my original statement are you having trouble with?? i could careless about your hands on experience or whatever. We both know what prestige means , so show me where i am wrong.

Since cheaters who wherent good enough used that trick to get to legend…..which removed all the “prestige”.

Streamers/higher rated guys used that trick to reduce queueutimes. Since watching a streamer wait in queueu for 30+ minutes isnt a thing ppl tend to enjoy?

Getting there the normal way was just as hard or easy last season as it was this season.

Locuz.2651:

Fivedawgs.4267:

Then why you said this :

I think you forgot that last season ppl got there by teaming up with fresh f2p accounts over and over -> farming sapphire and ruby max players.

Can you please explain to me why would anyone do this, if legendary as you stated wasn’t hard to reach? or maybe why most streamers had to TEAM UP to get to legendary last season?

Also, which part of my original statement are you having trouble with?? i could careless about your hands on experience or whatever. We both know what prestige means , so show me where i am wrong.

Since cheaters who wherent good enough used that trick to get to legend…..which removed all the “prestige”.

Streamers/higher rated guys used that trick to reduce queueutimes. Since watching a streamer wait in queueu for 30+ minutes isnt a thing ppl tend to enjoy?

Getting there the normal way was just as hard or easy last season as it was this season.

Since cheaters who wherent good enough used that trick to get to legend…..which removed all the “prestige”.

Implicit in your sentence is :

1- Getting to legendary wad hard last season {i.e who weren’t good enough)
2- Cheating is not tantamount to being smart. Just like some players have switched to reaper this season; It’s called realizing that you could easily advance by either tanking your MMR or switching to necro (S2).
3-If 2 is true, point 1 again.

As far as the prestige goes, great we had people who were smart enough to circumvent whatever ( Tough opponent, reduce Q times) was keeping them from legendary; For the sake of the discussion, lets just call that cheating { even though, i have shown it’s not cheating but using your brain), time to take a look at season 2:

- Cheaters (real cheaters) as in hackers, tp’er, some made it to legendary (i.e Legendary hacker thread)
- Random Algorithm, which is biased against low MMR players
- Title can be obtained in 22 hours
- >50% increase in the legendary .
- 80% win rate by some of players
- Pve’er with no prior experience, were able to get to legendary in less than a month
-Highest ranked legendary is prestige 29 ( that is he was able to cross division 35 times in less than 2 months) (so competitive right?)

Getting there the normal way was just as hard or easy last season as it was this season.

Then how come noone had a 80% win-rate. last season? or better yet, how come noone reach prestige 11 last season?

So which is more prestigious?

Locuz.2651:

Fivedawgs.4267:

Funny how most S1 legendaries are stocking to their primordial legend title. Lol

Its just that primordial legend sounds better….has nothing to do with the it being more prestigious.

Fyi, dont forget what you said above, you have stated that both were prestigious.

Also, here is what the OP said :

Forestgreen.7981:

A-Net you’ve made legendary rank a joke. Please consider shortening the seasons as players can’t just brute force their way up the ranks.

My guess is, he is probably comparing S2 legends to S1.

What a joke of a thread

Fivedawgs.4267:

even though, i have shown it’s not cheating but using your brain

There is a reason they fixed it mid season… it was a loophole in the system.

Farming sapphire/ruby players up till legend doesnt sound like cheating the system to you?

If it doesnt and its just "smart"in your eyes, im done talking to you. Youre not the type of guy I want to spend more than 2 seconds of my time on.

Reminds me a bit of my wow days where ppl like you found their “smart” ways up on the ladder.

Locuz.2651:

Fivedawgs.4267:

even though, i have shown it’s not cheating but using your brain

There is a reason they fixed it mid season… it was a loophole in the system.

Farming sapphire/ruby players up till legend doesnt sound like cheating the system to you?

If it doesnt and its just "smart"in your eyes, im done talking to you. Youre not the type of guy I want to spend more than 2 seconds of my time on.

Reminds me a bit of my wow days where ppl like you found their “smart” ways up on the ladder.

lmao, Way to not answer a question; you went around rambling about nonsense, and thats your comeback???

There is a reason they fixed it mid season… it was a loophole in the system.

Yeah, cheating is doing something that’s forbidden (i.e. Open relationship vs traditional ones, as long as the rules says you can do this or that, it aint cheating) As long as the system allowed it, why not?? There is HUGE difference between cheating the system and CHEATING.
Taking advantage of loophole isn’t cheating (i.e. billionaire, tax breaks); might look like cheating but it isn’t as long as no rules are being broken. Needless to say, those folks are def cheating (taking advantage of/milking/playing) the system, but there weren’t/arent cheating(or doing anything illegals), hence why no-one got banned as a result of it.

So which is more prestigious?

Youre trying far too hard to defend this. So i guess you where one of the fake legendaries in season one? What a joke … really.

I guess youre the type of guy that bought boosts in wow for gold (or maybe even rl cash) aswell and felt it wasnt cheating since there was no rule against it?

Whats the point of playing a “competetive” gamemode if you need tricks like this?

Lmao, i like how you are derailing the thread. I am defending nothing, just stating the facts, and i was ruby last season. lmao…

Whats the point of playing a “competitive” gamemode if you need tricks like this?

You said it was patched? didnt you?

Has anything being pacthed this season ( i mean High vs low, random MMR, reapermania)?? uhm?? So competitive!!!

You are misconstruing what i have said,what they have done isnt cheating, they might have milked the system or whatever/ taken advantage of the loophole; Still, it aint cheating.

New fact : the so called cheat was patched last season, great. And this nothing has been patched during this joke of a season. So the question still stand.

Which is more prestigious?

Wait what?

Pretty sure there’s less legendaries this season, why do you think there’s been a constant stream of ‘Stuck in Ruby/Diamond’ threads on a daily basis?

Whereas last season the majority of the complaints were about how bland and boring it was to play in an immortal bunker meta. Pretty sure I can look and find couple of ‘Chrono = Free Legend’ threads somewhere.

Sykper.6583:

Wait what?

Pretty sure there’s less legendaries this season, why do you think there’s been a constant stream of ‘Stuck in Ruby/Diamond’ threads on a daily basis?

Whereas last season the majority of the complaints were about how bland and boring it was to play in an immortal bunker meta. Pretty sure I can look and find couple of ‘Chrono = Free Legend’ threads somewhere.

This season we have Reaper or high MMR = free legend.

But yeah, i can tell you haven’t been active in game/forum. The amount of legendary has increased this season.

Like you stated, last season , the complaints were mostly about the meta, unlike this one where folks are mainly complaining about the MM algorithm.

hitting season’s Legend is comparable to Last season’kittenting Diamond.

At least for me it was. It’s gotten quite easy compared to season 1.

Heck even ANET stated that it was easier to get Legendary this season.

Sykper.6583:

Wait what?

Pretty sure there’s less legendaries this season, why do you think there’s been a constant stream of ‘Stuck in Ruby/Diamond’ threads on a daily basis?

Those weren’t the majority of players. Forum complaints are always the loudest, but they’re in no way the minority unless it’s overly excessive like a 20 page thread or 10 same topic threads on the front page. There are a whole lot more players in Legendary compared to last season.

VuAnh.8105:

hitting season’s Legend is comparable to Last season’kittenting Diamond.

At least for me it was. It’s gotten quite easy compared to season 1.

Heck even ANET stated that it was easier to get Legendary this season.

ill says, it’s like hitting ruby last season (just my opinion); It also depends on when you got to legendary. dude, i struggled more in ruby than diamond, i lost a single game from Tier 1 to T5 diamond, MMR and other stuff might explain that. but yeah, its a lot easier to advance in diamond , i.e. decent teammates, than ruby this season.

Still, Legendary is seriously a joke this season.

Which title holds more prestige? It absolutely comes down to how much one does value grind as a source of prestige.

For a decent player who doesn’t play many matches a day, S2 legendary is far easier to get. On the other hand, S1 legend was pretty much guaranteed for a not-so-good one who played a lot.

Vargamonth.2047:

Which title holds more prestige? It absolutely comes down to how much one does value grind as a source of prestige.

For a decent player who doesn’t play many matches a day, S2 legendary is far easier to get. On the other hand, S1 legend was pretty much guaranteed for a not-so-good one who played a lot.

I disagree, some pro streamers wouldn’t have made it to legendary if they didn’t team up with their pal. I viciously grinded rank during Season 1, only to get stuck at ruby Tier 6, then again i only play warrior. However, the S1 meta (not the algorithm) made it possible for the average bunker mes/ druids/ ele to get to legendary by grinding.

Still the rank is more prestigious, because you had to earn it. Having a High MMR, or playing only in the morning / night or whatever(taking break after losses) wasn’t going to cut it. Finally, the scarcity of legendary caused by the competitive nature of the S1 system, makes the rank even more appealing.

Yannir.4132:

There should be a limited number of players in Legendary. Like if you are not in the top 500, you drop back to Diamond. Increase rewards for Legendary game wins, and then a final reward for staying in Lege until the end of the season.

Fivedawgs.4267:

Vargamonth.2047:

Which title holds more prestige? It absolutely comes down to how much one does value grind as a source of prestige.

For a decent player who doesn’t play many matches a day, S2 legendary is far easier to get. On the other hand, S1 legend was pretty much guaranteed for a not-so-good one who played a lot.

I disagree, some pro streamers wouldn’t have made it to legendary if they didn’t team up with their pal. I viciously grinded rank during Season 1, only to get stuck at ruby Tier 6, then again i only play warrior. However, the S1 meta (not the algorithm) made it possible for the average bunker mes/ druids/ ele to make legendary with grinding.

You’re right.
S1 was a handicap for the best players because the Matchmaking couldn’t find similar MMR allies and enemies for a competitive game. This often did lead to weird matches, facing ESL premades over and over or having the burden of an absolutely uncarry-able guy just for MMR balancing purposes.
For the average player? Not so much. A much larger pool of close MMR players prevented most of this, so it was mostly about playing a lot of around 50% winrate predcited matches until a double pip win or a no pip lose happened (which was actually more common on low-mid MMR brackets, since many full/partial premades there are nothing but friends playing together, getting barely any advantage from premading).

Your case is actually quite special because you’re playing with a non-meta class.
During S1 the game tried to balance MMR for both teams. If you were playing a warrior while the other team had a guy with a MMR value close to yours using something like, lets say, a bunker mes, the odds were stacked against you.

On S2 you might eventually overcome the build handicap with skill. That was just impossible on S1 unless you tanked your MMR way below your true level.
Some average guy that reached legendary on S1 just by sticking to a comfortable meta build can be, on the other hand, totally stuck at some point of ruby/diamond this time.

OK so, in summary:

Season One was too grindy for “good” players as they had to “carry” average/bad players.

Season 2 is too grindy because too many people got to Legendary (in your opinion). (But queue times in Legendary are too high as well!)

So in summary, ANet need to make a system that:

1. Isn’t grindy for you getting to Legendary
2. Is difficult, if not impossible, for anyone else to get to Legendary
3. Has short queue times at Legendary

Disclaimer: I solo queued to Legendary this season despite horrific losing streaks in Emerald and Sapphire

Comparing S1 to S2, S2 is much much longer. Not only that, with more time you let players smack their heads into a the wall till it came down and hit legendary.

Its like raids without an enrage timer, raids would be so easy if everyone with defensive stats and facetanked everything. But no they put in timers so you need to have high dps and lower survivability.

Forestgreen.7981:

A-Net you’ve made legendary rank a joke. Please consider shortening the seasons as players can’t just brute force their way up the ranks.

It’s better than last season. At least they are making progress. You can’t just grind your way to legendary.