Too much damage ?
balance at release day was terrible..
i was nuking people in a second back then
overall its definitely less burst – i guess people got somewhat better
Players are just better now. Damage has been nerfed quite a bit (especially with quickness being reduced to 50%). Also, players tend to “burst” with all their cooldowns at once: You can dodge burst skills to negate all damage, or use another skill that blocks/gives you invulnerability/evades. Every class has some sort of defense, and everyone can dodge.
there is still an element of skill with the bursting, on both ends. being able to pull it off, and if your being bursted: being able to survive it with stunbreaks, dodge rolls, blinds, etc.
Duck
Pretty much the only viable ways to spec your character in pvp right now is to either be a nuclear bomb or an unkillable wall, with nothing in between. I wish they’d just reduce the stats on all pvp amulets, but celestial by 15% so min/maxing wouldn’t be as dramatic as it is right now.
It’s a lot better than it was at launch, but it’s definitely not enough.
They need to nerf offense and then tone down the boon spam defense and self-healing. Some classes like ele and guardian heal for too much given the amount of protection/regen, and stability they have access to.
Balanced builds have no place in the game. You have to stack stats to be effective.
If you don’t get enough toughness you get gibbed. If you don’t get enough power and crit damage you can’t scratch guardians and eles and rangers.
There’s no room for in-betweens.
My option would be to reduce the impact of stats. Make the baselines greater and reduce the effect of stat stacking so all abilities are good baseline but the stats sort of nudge improvements to establish identity without being mandatory for the abilities to work.
There’s a fine line between too much damage and not enough. If burst is reduced just enough that players can escape before dying, the games can turn into stalemates.
Giving power-damage builds an option for some toughness would help a lot though.
Kirrena Rosenkreutz
There’s a fine line between too much damage and not enough. If burst is reduced just enough that players can escape before dying, the games can turn into stalemates.
Giving power-damage builds an option for some toughness would help a lot though.
That only happens because the recovery options for bunkers are too good as well.
The ideal situation is that people will be worn down, and they’ll die eventually. Reset tools should be nerfed to the point where they’re very very long cooldowns and you can’t constantly set your hp back to full.
So no 6 second kills but no 30+ second engagements either.
Classes that have high escape should have longer cd’s on heals while classes that have less escapes should have lesser cd’s. The survivability variances between classes is too large and it skews the game toward classes that can only bu8ild glass cannons and classes that can only build bunkers.
Balanced builds have no place in the game. You have to stack stats to be effective.
If you don’t get enough toughness you get gibbed. If you don’t get enough power and crit damage you can’t scratch guardians and eles and rangers.
There’s no room for in-betweens.
Please show what one of these Balanced builds looks like.
The great forum duppy.
Balanced builds have no place in the game. You have to stack stats to be effective.
If you don’t get enough toughness you get gibbed. If you don’t get enough power and crit damage you can’t scratch guardians and eles and rangers.
There’s no room for in-betweens.
Please show what one of these Balanced builds looks like.
Builds with 15-10 point investments in the various trees, not 30 and 20 in 3. Builds using celestial amulets or rampager’s amulet for damage delivery variety over stacking damage type.
A build where you can run a power weapon with a defensive condi weapon.
You know, being able to build a hybrid that doesn’t suck majorly.
And no eles in valkyrie are not hybrids. They’re just abusing boon spam to be able to tank and deal damage at the same time. High protection times on classes is a design flaw.
The only class that can do power/condi damage splits is HGH engineer, again, due to broken boon spam.
(edited by Zenith.7301)
Balanced builds have no place in the game. You have to stack stats to be effective.
If you don’t get enough toughness you get gibbed. If you don’t get enough power and crit damage you can’t scratch guardians and eles and rangers.
There’s no room for in-betweens.
Please show what one of these Balanced builds looks like.
Builds with 15-10 point investments in the various trees, not 30 and 20 in 3. Builds using celestial amulets or rampager’s amulet for damage delivery variety over stacking damage type.
A build where you can run a power weapon with a defensive condi weapon.
You know, being able to build a hybrid that doesn’t suck majorly.
And no eles in valkyrie are not hybrids. They’re just abusing boon spam to be able to tank and deal damage at the same time.
This is a MMO, not a shoot’ em up like Call of Duty, if I don’t want diversity I don’t go play a MMO
Balanced builds have no place in the game. You have to stack stats to be effective.
If you don’t get enough toughness you get gibbed. If you don’t get enough power and crit damage you can’t scratch guardians and eles and rangers.
There’s no room for in-betweens.
Please show what one of these Balanced builds looks like.
Builds with 15-10 point investments in the various trees, not 30 and 20 in 3. Builds using celestial amulets or rampager’s amulet for damage delivery variety over stacking damage type.
A build where you can run a power weapon with a defensive condi weapon.
You know, being able to build a hybrid that doesn’t suck majorly.
There should be more diversity and what not but why would throwing 15 in every attribute make you balanced. The trait line was about specializing to your needs, if you just throw 15 in all the traits you’re not really doing it with a purpose.
Now Amulets yeah some of them just don’t work or get picked. I think Celestial amulet may not be that bad (hypothetically) but professions kits aren’t designed to utilize it so it doesn’t work because of that. I mean offensively you need to be doing condi damage as well. Something like Mesmer Sword, Thief sword, Warrior GS. They don’t output condi damage to take advantage of the condi dmg stat so right away that is points wasted. Then you have healing but for that to be significant you need heals to be coming in as well, but that again isn’t a reality for most professions.
I think some of the amulets are not realistic in their stat allocation for what professions can do, so that is why they aren’t used and for you to try and have that many different aspects which take benefit of celestials you’d have to trait in certain ways as well, which obviously then takes away from that idea of throwing 15 in every stat.
The great forum duppy.
(edited by ensoriki.5789)
It’s also the fact that if a guy can regularly hit you for 4-5k bursts, healing an extra 200-300 points of damage won’t be as useful as using an amulet that gives you ~4k more HP and enough toughness to reduce that damage by at least 30%.
Celestial amulet is not used because small gains cannot overcome the immense synergistic workings of specialized amulets.
So my thief can try a celestial dagger/dagger+pistol/pistol and get gibbed by a berserker D/P thief regardless because the difference between 916 toughness and 1.2k is not big enough to overcome a backstab combo, but my offensive loss is noticeable.
Thus my thief is forced to build just as spiky and I better be able to kill him faster than he kills me or play s/d to be able to spike him better than he can spike me.
The same goes for a necromancer in celestials with some vampiric trait. There are thresholds of counterpressure you need to put out to be able to win an engagement and celestial or spread stats simply do not allow for it.
If I build a necro with celestial or rampager I’ll neither be killing bunkers (my defenses are low enough that they can wear me down faster) nor be able to survive berserker mesmers/thieves.
You either need to hit like a freight train to overwhelm the enemy’s sustained and force them into quick reactions which mean mistakes, or you need to be bunkerish enough to foil the burst and wear down your opponent. And to foil a burst spec you simply need over 1800 toughness if you’re not an ele or guardian with ample access to prot.
In order for bleeds to be any good you need to stack condition damage, and the same goes for survival and power builds outside warriors (who have particularly higher base numbers so they can run knights and output the same damage of a class in berserker).
There are too many extremes, so they need to reduce the threshold where conditions deal too much damage but up the baseline effectiveness of bleeds so you don’t have to stack condition damage. Burning’s upper numbers need nerfing. I think that without investment burning should tick for 400 and with investment maybe 500-550 tops, not 800 ticks.
The same should go for all stat investments. They should be good enough to be used baseline, and adding extra stats should be a nudge, not a colossal shift in results.
(edited by Zenith.7301)
I often feel like the damage output is far too high. If I’m not bunker then I die in seconds, but if I’m not glass cannon I’m borderline useless damage-wise. Anet said they wanted elementalists to be more middle of the line so we can fullfill every role at once, just to a lesser extent. That isn’t viable with the current set up because the disparity is just THAT large.
I can go middle ground and get a firegrab for 4K damage and get three shot by a thief or decimated by a ranger in a few seconds, or I can go full glass and do 12K damage and maybe kill something, and I die to one hit from a thief. The difference between three hits and one hit is all of a second, the difference in damage output is tremendous.
Hello dear spvpers.
There is a certain matter that i noticed in the last couple of days i would like to discuss.
Is it me or TTK (time to kill) is drastically reduced ?I’m not a very experienced spvp player, but i always enjoyed a couple of fun games, to do the dailies and such.
Back when i started this game, i used to duel with other players on my necro for about 20 seconds or so on 1v1. We used to throw skills at each other, try to survive and see what happens.
Now its all a damagefest. Most of the time i don’t even survive 6 seconds. It’s more noticable on my rabid engineer, necromancer has access to deathshroud but engineer is like a pancake. Just warriors and thieves rushing on your face, smashing buttons, smashing and stunning your face, necros spamming conditions and watching you fall, killing you in 5-6 seconds.
Maybe i forgot how to pvp, i don’t know. Imo ,such high amount of fast damage doesn’t really allow players to actually play the game or use the element of “skill” to cope well with other classes.
I think this is what people call, power creep ?
I hope i could make my point.
All the best.
You need to be a bit more specific. Taking glass cannons against glass cannons generally results in a match lasting 5 seconds. Taking tanks against tanks lasts around 60 seconds, bunker against bunker 2 centuries. Bunker against Glass Cannon, around 40-60 seconds, Bunker against tank, 4-5 minutes or 2 centuries, tank against glass cannon, 20-30 seconds.
It all varies.
Contact me ingame for Necro, Ranger, Mesmer, and Thief advice.
The damage by itself (done by a single player) is not too high IMHO. The reason peeps die so fast is because of:
A) pain train
B) cleave damage
The pain train burst – usually done spamming blast finishers in a fire field then stealthing and all opening on target of choice (usually necromancers tehehe) is made specially to give as close to zero chances of survival to said target (preferred targets with no immunities / blocks etc).
The cleave damage well… presuming 4 players fight on a node, and 3 enemy players attempt to ress their 4th and get cleaved by the other 4: if each attacker would deal only 1k damage with his cleave attack, every second you would take 4k damage – add damage from conditions – and you would look at minimum 5k damage / second, meaning in 3 seconds only – you are either dead or almost dead (15k dmg aoe).
Ideally peeps would spread out, use LOS to avoid (some) damage, etc. But the nature of current conquest forces you to stay on the point to keep it neutral (or defend it from decap), and since most cleave / AoE attacks have quite some radius, you will get hit and take damage that wasn’t directly aimed at you personally – and it adds up fast.