Total failure as an e-sport
its not qq thief thread if u read it, he has problem with sins but not just that
I’ve only had this game for Christmas. I have never once found thieves to be a problem.
Have I just not fought any good thieves, or are the complainers really that bad?
The thief QQ threads started to mask themselves as an e-sport fail threads – that is interesting…
“I am sure some people will claim they can handle thieves with no issue whatsoever, in fact they are pro at handling thieves. I say they are talking crap.” And yet killing a glass cannon thief was not that hard even when there was no heartseeker nerf, but I do not think you remember this, since if you still have problems with BS thief, you probably play for a month or less. People that say they can handle thieves probably use a stunbreaker or some kind of other way to not get damaged – block/blind/etc. So maybe the problem is not with them talking crap, its with you, not learning how to counter?
On topic (?) about failing as an e-sport, yes this game might fail as an e-sport, but not because there is a Thief class, but the lack of content in PvP makes the player base shrink, thus creating many problems (long lines, noone buys tickets, etc.).
P.S. How I kill thieves: There are 2 usual kind of thieves: a backstabber and a bleeder. Backstabbers dmg is easily negated by stunbreak on basilisk venom+well of blindness or death shroud + fear, also put a fear mark beneath your legs and spread other marks around when thief restealths – they will trigger when he steps on them. This thief usually has no condition removal only his heal, and runs with ~14k hp, so either interrupt his heal or let him restealth and die from conditions you restacked on him. Bleeder thief usually uses death blossom and pistol to stack conditions, so I just throw conditions back to him with my marks or dagger offhand, put a well that turns conditions into buffs (usually unnecessary) and try not allow him to stay in stealth – if he tries to use his heal stealth interrupt with ds fear, if he tries to get into shadow refuge – fear him with marks from that location. Other then that keep returning his conditions and he will die or escape. More arguments about this class is here:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/pvp/The-Real-problem-with-Thief-Class/first#post1098281
P.P.S. Yes, there are games that have multiple thieves – there are games with multiple every class, but for the sake of argument lets ignore this thing. In my opinion the amount of thieves in hotjoins is increased just because people QQ about them in forums – nabs read it and make thieves then try to heartseeker people from 100% hp to death, like post in forum shows. I have seen plenty of these “new” players in hotjoins some after fighting and loosing every single fight started asking about how I play necromancer, two of them even created necros and came back into the hotjoin I was playing to fight, that was a very fun experience for me : )
(edited by Lukin.4061)
Yeah we are really bad, which is why I said go into hotjoin (or free tournys if you wish. I would say paids but expect long q times), and look at how many thieves are in the game.
Ignore everything I said, ignore every thief complain thread (even though most threads are about them, so must all be bads), ignore reason and logic. And still, notice how every game has loads of thieves in them. The clue is in how often they are used. At least 4 EVERY SINGLE GAME.
People want to pretend that slamming 10K in an instant is ok, that thats normal.
I am going to roll a thief and I already know I will utterly destroy anyone I go against. I may even make a video. Now if I am a “noob” with no skill, who doesnt play the class, I SHOULD do crap. Yet I have a feeling I will in fact destroy all others who come near me. But thats ok, a class that requires little skill, and has some of the most overpowered attacks and defense is perfectly fine.
The thief QQ threads started to mask themselves as an e-sport fail threads – that is interesting…
“I am sure some people will claim they can handle thieves with no issue whatsoever, in fact they are pro at handling thieves. I say they are talking crap.” And yet killing a glass cannon thief was not that hard even when there was no heartseeker nerf, but I do not think you remember this, since if you still have problems with BS thief, you probably play for a month or less. People that say they can handle thieves probably use a stunbreaker or some kind of other way to not get damaged – block/blind/etc. So maybe the problem is not with them talking crap, its with you, not learning how to counter?
Well way to show your complete lack of understanding. What use is a stun breaker against back stab + steal + heartseeker spam? Where is the stun I need to break in that?
And no, I do not run with a stun breaker, I use 2. Sometimes 3 if I feel its needed. I do love how people seem to think a stun breaker is going to help against DAMAGE.
Yeah we are really bad, which is why I said go into hotjoin (or free tournys if you wish. I would say paids but expect long q times), and look at how many thieves are in the game.
Ignore everything I said, ignore every thief complain thread (even though most threads are about them, so must all be bads), ignore reason and logic. And still, notice how every game has loads of thieves in them. The clue is in how often they are used. At least 4 EVERY SINGLE GAME.
People want to pretend that slamming 10K in an instant is ok, that thats normal.
I am going to roll a thief and I already know I will utterly destroy anyone I go against. I may even make a video. Now if I am a “noob” with no skill, who doesnt play the class, I SHOULD do crap. Yet I have a feeling I will in fact destroy all others who come near me. But thats ok, a class that requires little skill, and has some of the most overpowered attacks and defense is perfectly fine.
What does a lot of people playing have to do with it? That doesn’t make the class overpowered.
If you pub in TF2, there’s always a ton of pyros and engies.
But they’re awful.
When you play pubs, people play the easy class. That doesn’t mean the easy class is overpowered.
Yeah we are really bad, which is why I said go into hotjoin (or free tournys if you wish. I would say paids but expect long q times), and look at how many thieves are in the game.
Ignore everything I said, ignore every thief complain thread (even though most threads are about them, so must all be bads), ignore reason and logic. And still, notice how every game has loads of thieves in them. The clue is in how often they are used. At least 4 EVERY SINGLE GAME.
People want to pretend that slamming 10K in an instant is ok, that thats normal.
I am going to roll a thief and I already know I will utterly destroy anyone I go against. I may even make a video. Now if I am a “noob” with no skill, who doesnt play the class, I SHOULD do crap. Yet I have a feeling I will in fact destroy all others who come near me. But thats ok, a class that requires little skill, and has some of the most overpowered attacks and defense is perfectly fine.
What does a lot of people playing have to do with it? That doesn’t make the class overpowered.
If you pub in TF2, there’s always a ton of pyros and engies.
But they’re awful.When you play pubs, people play the easy class. That doesn’t mean the easy class is overpowered.
TF2 has little to compare to this game. I mean for a start that game tries for balance. Anyway, if a class is easy it has to have something that means it is easy. The reason thief is the easy class is because it has a high level of damage, massive burst, great survivability (stealth is an amazing skill, truly above even the mesmers clone army in how powerful a skill it is. Works as a great defensive move AND offensive move)
Yeah we are really bad, which is why I said go into hotjoin (or free tournys if you wish. I would say paids but expect long q times), and look at how many thieves are in the game.
Ignore everything I said, ignore every thief complain thread (even though most threads are about them, so must all be bads), ignore reason and logic. And still, notice how every game has loads of thieves in them. The clue is in how often they are used. At least 4 EVERY SINGLE GAME.
People want to pretend that slamming 10K in an instant is ok, that thats normal.
I am going to roll a thief and I already know I will utterly destroy anyone I go against. I may even make a video. Now if I am a “noob” with no skill, who doesnt play the class, I SHOULD do crap. Yet I have a feeling I will in fact destroy all others who come near me. But thats ok, a class that requires little skill, and has some of the most overpowered attacks and defense is perfectly fine.
Hot join sPvP is full of noobs… The D/D thief build is a noob build… The D/D thief build kills noobs… This is why there are so many of these thieves. Noobs killing noobs with the most noob friendly build they can find.
~Shadowkat
Anyway, if a class is easy it has to have something that means it is easy.
It was an analogy. 19 rogue was the most played twink class, but it wasn’t overpowered (no slows).
Yes, doing the initial thief burst is easy. That doesn’t mean it’s overpowered/broken…
(edited by misda.2859)
Declaring gw2 an esport failure is premature.
All esport games took more than just mere months to break onto the esport scene in a significant way.
Delarme
Apathy Inc [Ai]
Apathy Inc [Ai]
Yeah we are really bad, which is why I said go into hotjoin (or free tournys if you wish. I would say paids but expect long q times), and look at how many thieves are in the game.
Ignore everything I said, ignore every thief complain thread (even though most threads are about them, so must all be bads), ignore reason and logic. And still, notice how every game has loads of thieves in them. The clue is in how often they are used. At least 4 EVERY SINGLE GAME.
People want to pretend that slamming 10K in an instant is ok, that thats normal.
I am going to roll a thief and I already know I will utterly destroy anyone I go against. I may even make a video. Now if I am a “noob” with no skill, who doesnt play the class, I SHOULD do crap. Yet I have a feeling I will in fact destroy all others who come near me. But thats ok, a class that requires little skill, and has some of the most overpowered attacks and defense is perfectly fine.
Hot join sPvP is full of noobs… The D/D thief build is a noob build… The D/D thief build kills noobs… This is why there are so many of these thieves. Noobs killing noobs with the most noob friendly build they can find.
Riiight, and you dont see an issue with that? Well let me draw you a picture.
Hotjoin is junk, so scrap it. I am sure thats what most of the “pvp proS” would like to say.
Then what? free tournaments? well get guild stamped, and with no way to learn your class you can expect to roll solo, get farmed, and have nothing but stomach ulcers to show for it.
Paids will continue to dwindle as well, as less and less people want to play Thief Wars 2, and opt for wv3 or pve or another game entirely.
Few more months down the road and the pvp aspect is dead, a new mode or two will inject only a little extra life, but the competitive level is well and truly dead.
PVE content will be pushed harder and harder making the problem worse. Then when this place is a ghost town and all thats left is some die hards complaining about the lack of any PVP, I may log in to laugh and ask if they hadnt been so protective of the thief OP state, maybe people would have enjoyed the game and tried to get into the higher level of pvp.
MMO market is a fast moving and ever changing market, this is not World of Warcraft so it will have to work hard in order to stay in the game. Mesmers were op thanks to a bug and thats been addressed (in the most amateur way possible)
And another point that I have made over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over again. The thief has no cooldowns, it is a different combat system. How can you not see the major flaw in that?
Lets make a new class that has machine guns and plays just like counter strike. Do you think it will be OP? yes because it doesnt fit with the other combat styles. The class is broken, thats why its overpowered. No other class can spam attacks, none.
…
Well way to show your complete lack of understanding. What use is a stun breaker against back stab + steal + heartseeker spam? Where is the stun I need to break in that?
And no, I do not run with a stun breaker, I use 2. Sometimes 3 if I feel its needed. I do love how people seem to think a stun breaker is going to help against DAMAGE.
Every normal backstab thief would have used basilisk venom before “back stab + steal + heartseeker” combo (which is actually basilisk venom+steal+cloak and dagger+backstab not that nonsense you just written). Basilisk venom not only stuns an enemy for 1.5 sec, but gives a stack of might and other buffs if traited, not to mention it is easier to hit a stunned target.
In your case against the “back stab + steal + heartseeker” you only need to dodge roll. You can even dodge roll the cloak and dagger that a thief has to use before backstab so he will do actually no dmg loose half of his initiative and will probably die fast.
Also when I go to free tournaments and meet teams with high number of thief, that always makes us happy – easy win guaranteed, since this team is obviously a random team. Never seen more than a 1 thief in Paids, especially backstabbers, since almost every one I met was a bleeder.
You use 3 stunbreakers? That is just a waste of utilities if you ask me, but what do I know how you play your proffesion.
Also the lack of smart counter arguments in your posts makes me think that this is just fellknights ALT account…
(edited by Lukin.4061)
Yeah we are really bad, which is why I said go into hotjoin (or free tournys if you wish. I would say paids but expect long q times), and look at how many thieves are in the game.
Ignore everything I said, ignore every thief complain thread (even though most threads are about them, so must all be bads), ignore reason and logic. And still, notice how every game has loads of thieves in them. The clue is in how often they are used. At least 4 EVERY SINGLE GAME.
People want to pretend that slamming 10K in an instant is ok, that thats normal.
I am going to roll a thief and I already know I will utterly destroy anyone I go against. I may even make a video. Now if I am a “noob” with no skill, who doesnt play the class, I SHOULD do crap. Yet I have a feeling I will in fact destroy all others who come near me. But thats ok, a class that requires little skill, and has some of the most overpowered attacks and defense is perfectly fine.
Hot join sPvP is full of noobs… The D/D thief build is a noob build… The D/D thief build kills noobs… This is why there are so many of these thieves. Noobs killing noobs with the most noob friendly build they can find.
Riiight, and you dont see an issue with that? Well let me draw you a picture.
Hotjoin is junk, so scrap it. I am sure thats what most of the “pvp proS” would like to say.
Then what? free tournaments? well get guild stamped, and with no way to learn your class you can expect to roll solo, get farmed, and have nothing but stomach ulcers to show for it.
Paids will continue to dwindle as well, as less and less people want to play Thief Wars 2, and opt for wv3 or pve or another game entirely.
Few more months down the road and the pvp aspect is dead, a new mode or two will inject only a little extra life, but the competitive level is well and truly dead.
PVE content will be pushed harder and harder making the problem worse. Then when this place is a ghost town and all thats left is some die hards complaining about the lack of any PVP, I may log in to laugh and ask if they hadnt been so protective of the thief OP state, maybe people would have enjoyed the game and tried to get into the higher level of pvp.
MMO market is a fast moving and ever changing market, this is not World of Warcraft so it will have to work hard in order to stay in the game. Mesmers were op thanks to a bug and thats been addressed (in the most amateur way possible)
And another point that I have made over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over again. The thief has no cooldowns, it is a different combat system. How can you not see the major flaw in that?
Lets make a new class that has machine guns and plays just like counter strike. Do you think it will be OP? yes because it doesnt fit with the other combat styles. The class is broken, thats why its overpowered. No other class can spam attacks, none.
The thief has cooldowns. They’re just in the form of initiative…
The d/d thief sacrifices some prolonged damage/healing for burst ability. It’s called having variation in your game.
Bad players will always play. See: how many people play 32 man TF2 pubs, QL space CTF, CoD MW2.
Balancing the game for bad players is really stupid.
…
Well way to show your complete lack of understanding. What use is a stun breaker against back stab + steal + heartseeker spam? Where is the stun I need to break in that?
And no, I do not run with a stun breaker, I use 2. Sometimes 3 if I feel its needed. I do love how people seem to think a stun breaker is going to help against DAMAGE.
Every normal backstab thief would have used basilisk venom before “back stab + steal + heartseeker” combo (which is actually basilisk venom+steal+cloak and dagger+backstab not that nonsense you just written. Basilisk venom not only stuns an enemy for 1.5 sec, but gives a stack of might and other buffs if traited, not to mention it is easier to hit a stunned target.
In your case against the “back stab + steal + heartseeker” you only need to dodge roll. You can even dodge roll the cloak and dagger that a thief has to use before backstab so he will do actually no dmg loose half of his initiative and will probably die fast.
Also when I go to free tournaments and meet teams with high number of thief, that always makes us happy – easy win guaranteed, since this team is obviously a random team. Never seen more than a 1 thief in Paids, especially backstabbers, since almost every one I met was a bleeder.
You use 3 stunbreakers? That is just a waste of utilities if you ask me, but what do I know how you play your proffesion.
dodge roll what exactly? dodge the invisible man who I have no way of bring out of stealth? now to mention they can steal and backstab at the same time. And if I am able to dodge it, then dodge it again, I have no more dodge. The thief still has all his moves. So say I use some skill to further my defense, which is no one cooldown, the thieves moves are not on cooldown, he can just spam them all again, and again, and again.
The reason I tend to use more defense minded utilities is so I dont have to go pure bunker yet again if I want any chance of not dying. Thats the state of the game, pure bunker or pure burst. I cannot out burst a thief as his stealth means i have nothing to attack bar random swings/aoe. I have to go pure defensive all the time, and hope I get lucky and he messes up. Or he can just go ranged and short bow me, and if I go for him and commit to an attack he will switch back and go into killing machine mode. Your kitten either way no matter what you do, you have to hope and sacrifice 10 virgins in a last ditch attempt that he will mess up and I can land an attack or two. Which he will just stealth out and avoid me untill I blow something.
So many builds for other classes are built on just dealing with thieves.
And yes, thieves on a tourny are a good thing in some ways as they rarely help out, but its still annoying as hell to get destroyed with little chance of avoiding it unless you go pure bunker. Then all you have is bunkers fighting other bunkers in a match up that no one can win.
Bad players
Bad design
200 ms ping + 200 ms your reaction – 400 ms to use stunbreak/dodge
500 ms – 15k burst
dodge roll what exactly? dodge the invisible man who I have no way of bring out of stealth? now to mention they can steal and backstab at the same time. And if I am able to dodge it, then dodge it again, I have no more dodge. The thief still has all his moves. So say I use some skill to further my defense, which is no one cooldown, the thieves moves are not on cooldown, he can just spam them all again, and again, and again.
Thieves have initiative. Also if you saw the thief stealth, it should be easy to deal with.
What class do you play?
Bad players
Bad design
200 ms ping + 200 ms your reaction – 400 ms to use stunbreak/dodge
500 ms – 15k burst
Have yet to have any trouble with a thief after my first two games (in which I did get destroyed by a thief). I simply messaged him asking about the class- he referred me to Jumper. I watched some of jumper’s stream videos to learn how the class worked and have had 0 issues since then.
Glass cannon d/d thieves are ‘glass’ cannons.
+you just throw in a dodge roll or two and a slow, and they’re not a problem.
It is crazy to argue posts like “dodge the invisible man who I have no way of bring out of stealth?” or "now to mention they can steal and backstab at the same time. And if I am able to dodge it, then dodge it again, I have no more dodge. The thief still has all his moves. " Yes, because a thief can stealth without hitting you with cloak and dagger (well he can use a heal or shadow refuge, but that is a waste imo) and steal has a 0 sec cd… Also reading posts like yours makes me feel such a great player, since I can kill the GODLIKE thieves with only 1 stunbreaker&well of darkness as my utility and the necromancer I play is not a bunker, nor he is a burst – conditions stack slow and not hit that much (113 per tic). So what is this paradox that I have created?
Its just a l2p issue as it was with 100b wars during beta or early live in forums.
(edited by Lukin.4061)
It is crazy to argue posts like “dodge the invisible man who I have no way of bring out of stealth?” or "now to mention they can steal and backstab at the same time. And if I am able to dodge it, then dodge it again, I have no more dodge. The thief still has all his moves. " Yes, because a thief can stealth without hitting you with cloak and dagger (well he can use a heal or shadow refuge, but that is a waste imo) and steal has a 0 sec cd… Also reading posts like yours makes me feel such a great player, since I can kill the GODLIKE thieves with only 1 stunbreaker&well of darkness as my utility and the necromancer I play is not a bunker, nor he is a burst – conditions stack slow and not hit that much (113 per tic). So what is this paradox that I have created?
Its just a l2p issue as it was with 100b wars during beta or early live in forums.
you must fight really bad thiefs if they at all die to a necro who isn’t a bunker and doesn’t have teammates next to them.
Almost all BS thiefs are bad. I have not seen a really good one in a while btw. Stealth is the broken aspect, if you fight anything thief with a steal build, watch as all your necro skills be useless while they output more conditional damage than you.
sllaw eht no nettirw gnihtemos saw ecno ereht
In all my years of playing MMOs around the world, never in my life have I seen a game that failed on a level this severe. It is honestly looking like ANet are realising this and have attempted to re-market themselves as an all rounded MMO (RE; PVE content). In the beta, things were unbalanced. But that was ok as it was beta so you expect that to be the case. In fact, the point of beta is to iron those matters out.
Then it was released, and the balance went from a problem to just the way it was always going to be. Sure thieves can kitten you in seconds and you have very little in the way of options to counter it. Sure you could dodge, as long as you can see the stealthed thief attacking you, and even if you can dodge (its luck, dont pretend it isnt), he will continue to destroy you anyway. Your only real hope is going full defensive and hoping a teammate will come along to help you. Now as the problem goes from stupid to boring, and more and more thieves are in every single match, the game is going to the dogs.
I am sure some people will claim they can handle thieves with no issue whatsoever, in fact they are pro at handling thieves. I say they are talking crap. And to the “pro’s” who claim thieves are so rubbish they never see them at “high level”, well shut up because you do not know anything if you never play them. Also, I do hope your enjoying your nice long queue times, expect them to get worse, maybe a little better when the server merger kicks in :P
But down to the line go join any hotjoin or free tourny, notice the huge number of thieves as any proof you need that speaks to there overpowered nature. Yet ANet cannot do anything about it, because they failed designing the class, they failed to have any real communication with the community, they failed to monetize PVP (thus making it a dead end), they failed to balance thieves, they failed with the initiative system, and they failed with PVP.
Anyone else who feels the same, do like I have done and go play another game. One that actually has competent staff who understand when 50% of the player base is playing a single class, that perhaps you have a problem.
This thread should be renamed to"I hate THIEF’S". I am one of the people who knows this game will most likely not become a esport with the way the pvp is progressing. Your approach to the thread is false information. I read it all and the point i got from it you hate thief’s. What does that have to do with this game not being a esport. You should let the people who actually bring up valid balancing points and other features to make the game better. Than you blabbing about how much you hate thief’s. Please don’t make us look bad! Have a nice day!
(edited by Pride N Greed.8106)
In all my years of playing MMOs around the world, never in my life have I seen a game that failed on a level this severe. It is honestly looking like ANet are realising this and have attempted to re-market themselves as an all rounded MMO (RE; PVE content). In the beta, things were unbalanced. But that was ok as it was beta so you expect that to be the case. In fact, the point of beta is to iron those matters out.
Then it was released, and the balance went from a problem to just the way it was always going to be. Sure thieves can kitten you in seconds and you have very little in the way of options to counter it. Sure you could dodge, as long as you can see the stealthed thief attacking you, and even if you can dodge (its luck, dont pretend it isnt), he will continue to destroy you anyway. Your only real hope is going full defensive and hoping a teammate will come along to help you. Now as the problem goes from stupid to boring, and more and more thieves are in every single match, the game is going to the dogs.
I am sure some people will claim they can handle thieves with no issue whatsoever, in fact they are pro at handling thieves. I say they are talking crap. And to the “pro’s” who claim thieves are so rubbish they never see them at “high level”, well shut up because you do not know anything if you never play them. Also, I do hope your enjoying your nice long queue times, expect them to get worse, maybe a little better when the server merger kicks in :P
But down to the line go join any hotjoin or free tourny, notice the huge number of thieves as any proof you need that speaks to there overpowered nature. Yet ANet cannot do anything about it, because they failed designing the class, they failed to have any real communication with the community, they failed to monetize PVP (thus making it a dead end), they failed to balance thieves, they failed with the initiative system, and they failed with PVP.
Anyone else who feels the same, do like I have done and go play another game. One that actually has competent staff who understand when 50% of the player base is playing a single class, that perhaps you have a problem.
This thread should be renamed to"I hate THIEF’S". I am one of the people who knows this game will most likely not become a esport with the way the pvp is progressing. Your approach to the thread is false information. I read it all and the point i got from it you hate thief’s. What does that have to do with this game not being a esport. You should let the people who actually bring up valid balancing points and other features to make the game better. Than you blabbing about how much you hate thief’s. Please don’t make us look bad! Have a nice day!
So you want me to explain in detail all the issues with the game? well ok. For a start thieves are op (I am kidding, but they are)
Well ANet ignoring huge balance issues in favor of adding more PVE Micro transactions.
The game doesnt know what it wants to be. The classes on an overall spectrum seem to be either built for tanking, or dps minded. With the whole trinity thing not being what they wanted, what they have created is something less than that. You have tanks and dps, thats it. All they did was remove the healer aspect. No trinity was promoted as a new way of thinking, all they did was remove one aspect.
Ranking and matchmaking is a real sore point. How its done is anyones guess, and ranking ALWAYS fails somehow. ELO for example, or seeding, or any type of ranking always ends up having abuse holes, so they are kitten either way they take it.
Keep hotjoin as it is, although reducing the numbers would be a good start. OR, make free tournaments solo queue only, make paid free. No reason to have that system in place, this is PVP, not a facebook game only interested in earning money. Have a monthly tournament that requires gems if you like, something on a larger scale. New players need a line to follow in order to get to the highest level. Right now its grindfest zerg-topia hotjoin, then guild stomped free, and no one plays paids unless they just want to be farmed.
New maps and mode. Conquest is a poor idea for anything, its like an add on. Its good for fun, like CTF or some crazy style of game mode that people like as a downtime alternative. TDM is petty unoriginal, but it would be a start for some people. Make it king of the hill style for a few extra points. Drop the NPCs as well, this is PVP, no one likes PVE in a PVP game. Its stupid and pointless.
Get rid of water combat. It doesnt work and no one likes it (bar rangers, and who can blame them). Downed combat would need a rework, if its to stay then real attempts to balance it need to be made.
So you want me to explain in detail all the issues with the game? well ok. For a start thieves are op (I am kidding, but they are)
Well ANet ignoring huge balance issues in favor of adding more PVE Micro transactions.
The game doesnt know what it wants to be. The classes on an overall spectrum seem to be either built for tanking, or dps minded. With the whole trinity thing not being what they wanted, what they have created is something less than that. You have tanks and dps, thats it. All they did was remove the healer aspect. No trinity was promoted as a new way of thinking, all they did was remove one aspect.
Ranking and matchmaking is a real sore point. How its done is anyones guess, and ranking ALWAYS fails somehow. ELO for example, or seeding, or any type of ranking always ends up having abuse holes, so they are kitten either way they take it.
Keep hotjoin as it is, although reducing the numbers would be a good start. OR, make free tournaments solo queue only, make paid free. No reason to have that system in place, this is PVP, not a facebook game only interested in earning money. Have a monthly tournament that requires gems if you like, something on a larger scale. New players need a line to follow in order to get to the highest level. Right now its grindfest zerg-topia hotjoin, then guild stomped free, and no one plays paids unless they just want to be farmed.
New maps and mode. Conquest is a poor idea for anything, its like an add on. Its good for fun, like CTF or some crazy style of game mode that people like as a downtime alternative. TDM is petty unoriginal, but it would be a start for some people. Make it king of the hill style for a few extra points. Drop the NPCs as well, this is PVP, no one likes PVE in a PVP game. Its stupid and pointless.
Get rid of water combat. It doesnt work and no one likes it (bar rangers, and who can blame them). Downed combat would need a rework, if its to stay then real attempts to balance it need to be made.
Now that is a good post that looks right in the topic named like this. But still all these problems were already mentioned numerous times and you added nothing new.
If you think thieves are OP then your nuts.
Seriously a thief should never be able to beat a good elemanatlist in 1on1.
If you think thieves are OP then your nuts.
Seriously a thief should never be able to beat a good elemanatlist in 1on1.
The problem with thieves isn’t that their results are “OP” its that it is way too easy to get close to their maximum results with little effort. Myself and others have drawn attention to heartseeker, it isn’t the damage that is the issue with the ability, or even that it is spammable, the problem is you don’t even have to be paying attention to land it. You just mash 2 which gives you a high damage auto targeting gap closer.
As Vain said in the SotG, there needs to be more skillshots across all classes.
Ok, i have no problem with that, hs spam isnt a huge deal to most good thieves who rely on backstab anyway.
Have yet to have any trouble with a thief after my first two games (in which I did get destroyed by a thief). I simply messaged him asking about the class- he referred me to Jumper. I watched some of jumper’s stream videos to learn how the class worked and have had 0 issues since then.
Glass cannon d/d thieves are ‘glass’ cannons.
+you just throw in a dodge roll or two and a slow, and they’re not a problem.
you have 14k hp or 20k hp
but all glasscannon can deal 10-15k aoe/single target damage in second
1 second -75% hp:
400 ms to react – very very bad game design
Besides, all professions have too much AoE damage.
thief is not op.. they have low base health and little protection beside stealth
for a backstab thief to be good they need to go glass cannon and d/d condition thief has to sacrifice their damage, and again most they have will still be below 20k health.
most thief cant even survive bull charge – 100b combo..
thief is not op.. they have low base health and little protection beside stealth
for a backstab thief to be good they need to go glass cannon and d/d condition thief has to sacrifice their damage, and again most they have will still be below 20k health.most thief cant even survive bull charge – 100b combo..
See now on this matter I feel I may be wrong yet again. I think warriors are underpowered to the point of worthless, and I do not play one. But the system most people complain about is the 100b set up, which to me is perfect.
A warrior who bull rushes, frenzy, then 100b is almost a free kill. I can dodge that easy because I can see it. 9 times out of 10 they are swinging at the air, and I am loling and ripping them down with ease. I can auto attack them to death if I really wanted too. But I think its right that, that set up costs them more often than not. Thats how thief super burst SHOULD be. If they can get it, fine, but if not, then they are open to a free kill.
I am not asking for warriors to be buffed mind, a warrior who avoids that silly set up often does a lot better in this game. Its a reward risk that works nicely.
Here is another issue with thieves: Their strongest damaging attack (backstab) can be used carelessly with little downside. Once they are in stealth they can spam their attack button until they hit, they don’t have only 1 attempt to land huge damage. This is another poor design aspect imo.
One of the great foundations of game development is Risk vs Reward. The thief profession is chock full of low risk high reward abilities.
thief is not op.. they have low base health and little protection beside stealth
for a backstab thief to be good they need to go glass cannon and d/d condition thief has to sacrifice their damage, and again most they have will still be below 20k health.most thief cant even survive bull charge – 100b combo..
See now on this matter I feel I may be wrong yet again. I think warriors are underpowered to the point of worthless, and I do not play one. But the system most people complain about is the 100b set up, which to me is perfect.
A warrior who bull rushes, frenzy, then 100b is almost a free kill. I can dodge that easy because I can see it. 9 times out of 10 they are swinging at the air, and I am loling and ripping them down with ease. I can auto attack them to death if I really wanted too. But I think its right that, that set up costs them more often than not. Thats how thief super burst SHOULD be. If they can get it, fine, but if not, then they are open to a free kill.
I am not asking for warriors to be buffed mind, a warrior who avoids that silly set up often does a lot better in this game. Its a reward risk that works nicely.
Warriors aren’t balanced in either direction and that’s the issue, the devs think that is balanced when it isn’t. The warriors attacks can do far too much damage and when they hit and insta-gib people it’s entirely reasonable for people to be upset. There are several skills in the game on different classes that root a player just as long but don’t do near the same damage. There should be no insta-kill or even near insta-kill skills in PvP/WvW where if you miss a dodge at full health you die, even on the lowest base health glass cannons. Battles should be decided on repeatedly using the right skills and not making mistakes. On the other hand though, warriors lack some real utility(for lack of a better word) that other classes have.
If we are talking risk vs reward than there are skills/combos on other classes that require far more risk and are reward far less. The game simply isn’t balanced. I do not believe the devs even have bars set for balancing as it becomes blatantly obvious when similar skills aren’t even close to balanced. A cloth class in melee range with a melee weapon should melt faces just as fast as a warrior or thief. In fact the whole light, medium, and heavy armor is an entire balance issue on it’s own along with base health. The is no reason a warrior gets max health and armor, nor a reason a elementalist gets light and the lowest health. It certainly isn’t damage or melee. I don’t think it’s mitigation(protection/invuln) since the warrior gets endure pain and blocks. Seriously, if anyone can tell me how/why health/armor is “balanced” the way it is, I’d love to know.
With only 2 devs working on balance and their definition of “balance” being questionable, you simply won’t see the game balanced any time soon. Heck, they haven’t even balanced the stats yet and that isn’t even a question of whether it’s unbalanced. Power+precision+crit damage outscales everything else, perhaps making heals/conditions crit it might be a bit more balanced, or make it a choice of power, crit, or crit damage. I digress, the game has major design flaws in the balance department and I won’t hold my breath waiting until they’re fixed.
I was thinking about what you said I decided to see how many skills any class has and why its far too much to balance.
Lets take a ranger for example, you have;
10 weapon skills, a heal, 3 utilities, an elite and 3 for pet (swap and both “skills” they have) giving you 18
then 4 for downed
4 for underwater downed
10 weapons for underwater combat
Giving you overall 36 abilities that you could use. Add in the weapons you are not using and that number is nearing and over 50 for most classes.
Lets say 50 is a nice average for all classes. So 50×8=400
400 skills to balance out, which is FAR FAR FAR too many.
Scrap downed in all situations. just get rid of it, it should never have been in the game to begin with. You would still have a large number to deal with, but at least it would be a start. If in the future things are more balanced, then they can add them in slowly to make sure you dont end up with a mess.
Thats the entire problem with PVP, far too many things to be balanced. Always start simple and build upon a solid core. Instead we have a cluster of madness and the sort of balance that Charles Manson has mentally.
I was thinking about what you said I decided to see how many skills any class has and why its far too much to balance.
Lets take a ranger for example, you have;
10 weapon skills, a heal, 3 utilities, an elite and 3 for pet (swap and both “skills” they have) giving you 18
then 4 for downed
4 for underwater downed
10 weapons for underwater combat
Giving you overall 36 abilities that you could use. Add in the weapons you are not using and that number is nearing and over 50 for most classes.
Lets say 50 is a nice average for all classes. So 50×8=400
400 skills to balance out, which is FAR FAR FAR too many.
Scrap downed in all situations. just get rid of it, it should never have been in the game to begin with. You would still have a large number to deal with, but at least it would be a start. If in the future things are more balanced, then they can add them in slowly to make sure you dont end up with a mess.
Thats the entire problem with PVP, far too many things to be balanced. Always start simple and build upon a solid core. Instead we have a cluster of madness and the sort of balance that Charles Manson has mentally.
I completely disagree with this. The majority of skills already have a lot of balance, and there are far fewer skills than in gw1 even. In addition, the suggestion of removing downed state is awful; it’s one of the most interesting elements of combat and pvp gameplay.
You do realize elemenatlists are far more durable than warriors? played correctly anyway.
You should delete your Top thread and paste it with the one that makes more sense pertaining to your topic. Or people will keep thinking you’re a scrub.
Anyone else who feels the same, do like I have done and go play another game. One that actually has competent staff who understand when 50% of the player base is playing a single class, that perhaps you have a problem.
You clearly do not play tPvP which is where the e-sport you mention would live. In the meantime, practice a bit.
The reality is that the reason sPvP/tPvP isn’t as popular is because most people are choosing WvW as their end game.