Guild Wars 2

First of all i wan to apologise for my bad english as it isnt my main laguage and im also dyslectic.

I really like fast free Tpvp (3 matches) .Its not as chaotic as spvp and really fun to play.
As for the normal spvp I just use it to test the simple stuff but as usually all the matches are run by glass cannon builds where the main point is kill each other as fast as possible and not capturing the point. And to get the most glory point even if you lose.
Not really my style.

Now my problem with tpvp is matches of random group against premade.
I do premade matches but I also like to do random as wel:
to practice, use another build, no premade going on, or simply to not have the stress we have in voip.
For both group it’s not interesting to fight each other. Voip group are always going to have the advantage playing against random group. Both of the group are actually not learning to play better.
A random is usually not a challenge for premade and it’s a big frustration for the random to fight a good premade. They are always exception but the more we play and understand the game the less chance there is going to be of a nice battle.

Pls let the free roster of tpvp be random against random and premade against premade.

One more thing tpvp people do leave matches very frequently. Sometime even if we win the first match in de second match people did leave…
Pls find a system to discourage leaving or a system were we don’t have this unfair battles.

you are missing one thing, not all premades are 5 man groups…

so what with the rest? because even 4 man group can stomp random quite hard, no need to say they need 1 random to match with them to get full group, so you cant separate them completely…

and if you separate only 5 man groups, wont there be way too long queue times for them? its free tournament, you dont want to have long queue times…

you are looking at it only from one angle…

in gw1 there was HA which allowed only premade parties (u were forced to build a 8players team before starting), and Ha was played a lot 24/7. so creating a toruney for premade only and one for random only should not be so difficult.

or like League Of Legends, you can DUO with someone else and still play random ladder, not premade ladder.

there are a lot of possibilities. just need will to implement them

If the playerbase permits, it should be full random in one group (ie 5 randoms vs 5 randoms), and full premades in another.

There shouldn’t be any kind of queue with 1 extra person, and in addition, there should be mechanism obfuscating when play starts, so that sync joining is not possible.

But considering there is no spectator mode, this is unlikely to happen fast.

Rogacz.9865:

If the playerbase permits, it should be full random in one group (ie 5 randoms vs 5 randoms), and full premades in another.
.

+1. but if anet won’t take care of balance really fast, the playerbase will slowly “die”

@Maxi
The System I’m talking about is quick join without party.
One people join and get instant party of 5 random people vs 5 random people.
If you want to play with friend then you need a premade so we get a balance in people joining.
But I’m not here for the details I think ArenaNet is capable to think about that.
I do admit that premade need to get better rewards.
And a rating system
In this forum are a lot people asking for competitive tpvp.
So its not necessary to talk about that in this post. Arenanet is working on it.

People against this idea is just happy destroying random groups.
Also what I’m asking is simple to implement. And I do see both part as I play both.

Separating Pugs and Premades seems like it would increase que times and lead to premades wanting greater rewards for the increase challenge of fighting a premade over two pugs duking it out without as much organization. This is the problem that arised when WoWers tried to get premades v premades so that they would stop rolfstomping pugs due the advantages a premade brings to the table.

In my experience with WoW premades( I know, I know mentioning WoW twice makes me sick but I have had the most experience with it), I found that the biggest advantage came from communication, team composition and drive to win.

The biggest hurdle for the pug is team composition; however, this is not something I think can be fixed, a pug it is random afterall. Since tpvp separated from regular pvp (which ty Anet, smart move) those who play in tpvp normally play to win so drive does not seem to be an issue.

With drive taken care of I feel that focusing on communication is the key to closing the gap between the two. If the game offered an in game voice chat system that players could join at the beginning of the match, then pugs could communicate near the level of premades who use vent or mumble.

I am normally for making the pug smarter and more efficient, rather than splitting the player base, a simple addition of a chat system that players could use with little or no hassle seems like a step in the right direction. I have been up for a long time so maybe my idea doesnt make sense but it seems sounds in my extremely tired state lol

HJ are for pugs. Tournaments are primarily aimed at organized groups. Just organize yourself, find a group and play.

It’ll change once ladder/rating and paid tournaments are in.

I agree with Colton. Make it easier for pugs to battle premades instead of seperating the two. If you seperate the two you’ll have to build a whole system to properly balance the pugs, rank/class wise and another system to stop people from leaving (because that will happen a lot. QQ they got both our svanirs, QQ I think their setup is a bit better than ours, QQ they haz higher ranks, QQ y u no lissen to me bda stratage? etc etc).

It’d be better to focus those resources on something everyone can use, like an integrated voice chat. This would also be great for PvE, so I really think it’s something they should consider.

Agree with OP, we need random tournaments.

HJ is a bad alternative, it’s too messy for my taste.

You need to be able to choose 4 options:

I’m a solo player and I don’t care about playing vs premades
I’m a solo player and I certainly don’t want to fight vs premades
We’re a premade and we only want to fight other premades
We’re a premade and we don’t care who we fight

Zaroua.2714:

You need to be able to choose 4 options:

1. I’m a solo player and I don’t care about playing vs premades
2. I’m a solo player and I certainly don’t want to fight vs premades
3. We’re a premade and we only want to fight other premades
4. We’re a premade and we don’t care who we fight

This would be the same as just spiting the two groups, imo of course I could be wrong. To avoid writing each catagory and wasting space I will refer to them as 1-4 in descending order.

I feel that 2 & 4 would be the only options chosen. Given how no added bonus is given for premades fighting other premades 3 would be fairly undesirable. Since challenge isnt enough of an incentive to garner a large base of players for the option (imo, mind you), 3 would just be more work when you could pick 4 and have the chance for a challenge or a chance for an easy win for the same reward.

Option 1 would be a fools errand because you would know you will be at a disadvantage, will likely lose, and will have no greater reward for your added risk. Most people puging would prefer to play other pugs so that they are at an even playing field, and few would want to risk getting rolfstomped by organized teams (imo).

If most pugs pick 2, then effectively those that pick 4 would be really picking 3. This means that (mostly) pugs would fight pugs, and premades would fight premades. So this would just be a roundabout way of just seperating the two, when you could just split them and save a lot of coding and hassle. (which I am against for the reasons above in my previous post)

I am sorry m8 , but we have Spvp for random vs random fights .
Personaly i love to fight stronger and more orginize ppl , in tPvP and get rolfstomp all the time , as a solo player :P

I pug tPvP regularly and have happened to win a fair few of them (surprisingly enough) simply because most, if not all, of us were specced for and familiar with the strategies of winning on each map. Of the times my pug team has made it to the final round more often than not we at least put up a solid fight, even against premades.

I’m not saying this is a regular/common theme for tPvP pugs, but the biggest thing holding pugs back IMO is the lack of familiarity with the tournament format and the strategies that go with. More often than not when my pug team loses it’s because the people I’m with are trying to play it like a HotJoin and think playing for Glory is how you win.

Voice communication can certainly make the group more efficient, but means nothing if they don’t know and understand how to control and work a map efficiently.

TL;DR – L2tPvP please

Hjoin is just a chaos pvp system, I dont see people enjoing it.
They are to much post explaining why its is no fun at all.

The reason that people join hjoin is becasue they dont know they can solo join Tpvp!!.
Once you realise that is a good system 5vs5, no one want to go back to hj 8vs8.
@Hackks
The reason you winning now is because a lot of premade have just bad tactic or no tactic at all.
The game isnt out for a long time.
In fact as more people understand the game and premade figure out the tactic the less chance pug have.

I still dont get why pug can’t enjoy a good system.
The only reason i hear is to be queue food for premade ? Make no sensen
Pug derserve a good pvp system, and its already in the game.

Premade v premade queues for tpvp is a reasonable suggestion. As such you will find a lot of people opposed to it for no good reason.

Samsite.7568:

@Hackks
The reason you winning now is because a lot of premade have just bad tactic or no tactic at all.
The game isnt out for a long time.
In fact as more people understand the game and premade figure out the tactic the less chance pug have.

not true at all. I don’t only pug. I have played with teams as well. Some that do nothing but win all day long. On the occasion that I win with a pug it’s because they functioned the same way as the winning teams would. i.e. Control the center of the map, keep enemies treb down/gank mob kills, rotate help to contested points, etc. Most pug players just don’t understand this yet.

@hackks
what you are saying now is that you win with premade all day. Dit you actually lose against a pug with a good premade ?
I still dont see reason why premade and pug ’ll fight in same league.

If ANet didn’t want pugs doing tournaments they wouldnt have allowed it but they do. I agree there needs to be some type of system in place. As it is now if you run a premade even one made by spamming map chat and putting a random group of people together, as long as you are all able to get on voice chat you face roll almost every match since there are so many pugs in tpvp.

The only people who are against something like this being added are bad premades who actually want to face pugs to farm glory.

@Samsite – no I didn’t say I win in pugs all day long. I clearly stated the opposite in my first post. I simply said that it’s possible to win with pugs so long as everyone in the pug knows their role and the strategy for winning across the 3 maps. It’s rare that I win with a pug, usually once a session, twice if I’m lucky. Just making it to the final round is almost as rare. But, it is possible. If more people actually knew how to play a tournament to win then it would be less rare.

Sprawl.3891:

If ANet didn’t want pugs doing tournaments they wouldnt have allowed it but they do. I agree there needs to be some type of system in place. As it is now if you run a premade even one made by spamming map chat and putting a random group of people together, as long as you are all able to get on voice chat you face roll almost every match since there are so many pugs in tpvp.

The only people who are against something like this being added are bad premades who actually want to face pugs to farm glory.

Lol, if you want to farm glory you go enter an empty HJ server, tournaments are pretty crappy for glory farming.

Also as hacks said, you can get into the final round with a pug, IF the members know what they’re doing. So why exactly would you need to separate pug vs premade? Wouldn’t it be far better to separate skilled and not skilled? As stated before the biggest issue with premade vs pug tends to be communication. If gw2 had ingame voice chat a random group can be just as good as a bunch of folks you picked up in the mists. Of course premades that train together daily will be out of your league, but they should also be out of your skill “league” so you’ll rarely match them.

You got 5 minutes before the match. That should easily be enough to A: Discuss your strategy and B: change to characters (most higher “level” PvPers play multiple characters) your team is currently lacking. Imo with a decent ELO and ingame voice chat support you’d be a lot better of than if you’d split up premades and pugs. If you give pugs separate matchmaking, as I said before, you’re going to face a whole load of new problems again.

not just farming glory but chests, seriously if you run premades right now and don’t find tournaments boring, you are bad or only interested in easy wins. I pug more than I premade but when I do premade it’s quite boring, with the exception of those few games you get another premade which is maybe 1 out of 10. Add that in to 5min waits before each match and it just gets old fast. Pugging is almost more fun because you have more close matches.

tldr: doing tournaments as a premade is currently boring and easy and match making needs to be added. If you run a premade and feel this should not be added you are bad or only interested in pug stomping.

As I said in my post, I have enjoyed tPvP, and I don’t mind losing. Its the professional teams that roflcurbstomp you that, for me specifically, are an issue. You can’t get past them because they have the macros and farm your spawn point instead of allowing both teams to competatively play the map.

AC in particular does this…(in khylo) they blew us off clocktower, blew up our treb, and anytime the met us on the field of battle, it was no contest, they DPSBLEWUPOURFACES sending us scrambling to our spawn points, and then when they had the map, they camped our spawn point pretty much locking us in the base (both entrances yes) and keeping us put while the timer slowly ticked away…

the final scroe was 23 – 500. Such match ups like these earned hardly either team favor I had a grand total of 15, and the highest member of their side had 55, simply because we refused to jump down and play their graveyard camping game.

I commend that people are good (macros or otherwise), but to do this to an obviously lesser ‘pre-made’ was no fun for anyone, except their kittens.

Some kind of match up system needs to be in place. I enjoy tPvP, but I took a 7day break because of this. Bruised ego or otherwise, this was beyond demoralizing. Losing is one thing, being perma locked in your base, a completely ’nother story.

@Freakiie

I got no idea what you are talking about.
If you enter HJ play now (with you own rank) you have a high chance in entering a empty Bg.
The auto balance play now button doesn’t work that well.
Just leave a empty HJ BG there is no punishment for that and search manually for 14/16 HJ BG.
If you are entering a losing team just leave and search again, its easy to find a HJ BG to farm glory.
That’s why you have this big flow of people leaving and entering in a match . One of the reason i hate HJ
And in the avg i get a lot more glory in hj with a dps than with my premade bunker guardian.

Once that people realize that they can random join tpvp.
The avg pvp that enjoy a balance pvp only want to play with the tpvp system.
Except if premade pug stomp random.
tpvp System should be introduce in the hj system
5vs5 with a introduction
The same 5 people join and end battle and port out wen the battle is done.
1 or 3 battles i don’t care but not this nonstop BG.
Still they can keep this Hj system if they make Tpvp exiting for everyone.
Separating Pug’s and Premade in diferent league’s.
There nothing more exiting atm than 2 pug fighting each other in Tpvp

If you play Pug tpvp you notice that no one is reading the tactic at the beginning
for several reason and also some of them don’t understand English.
Also having voip with people that don’t have a microphone or don’t understand English or don’t
configure well his microphone is not going to help the situation.

1: Get a buddy.
2: Enter emtpy BG.
3: Cap and uncap same point over and over.
4: Easy glory.

That aside, yes there will be bad players. In a skillbased matchmaking they’d be matched with other baddies. If the system was made into a simple random vs random and premade vs premade I’d NEVER join randoms, exactly because I can bump into people like that.

If we made a skill based matchmaking however then baddies, newbies, people that can’t cooperate (for whatever reason) would stay low rank, thus people that actually try to play to win won’t ever be matched with them since they outrank them (unless they really suck). These players can then take on premades of their own skill level, IF they have the same tools the premades have. Yes occasionally party composition can screw you over, but since a lot of people play more than one class it shouldn’t happen to often, since you can switch to a class that’s needed. You also won’t get stomped by the super premades aiming for esports, since those (like the baddies) won’t be in your match making bracket.

I agree with the OP, I have not done Tpvp because of this point, although I have played about 1000 games of spvp.

I also think giving different awards for premade vs premade is fine; unlike WoW etc. the gear is cosmetic so it makes no “hard” difference.

The OP’s idea could also help facilitate groups coming together to create premades.