Guild Wars 2

When transferring and reflecting conditions, or stealing boons, it should all use the stats of the initial caster’s stats. As a power user, I like to run builds that send conditions back to the target. It acts as a condi cleanse for me, but also is supposed to punish the initial caster by sending their own damage back at them. But it uses my stats when I send the conditions back to them. So conditions that would have ticked for hundreds sec, tick for 20 a sec.

Also, when I steal regeneration from a healing ele, I’d expect high ticks of regen on myself, but it uses my own healing power stat which is 0.

I propose that transferring of conditions and stealing boons should use the initial caster’s stats.

I meant to post this in the pvp forums, aww well. Mod if you see this, can you put it in the pvp forums. thx

tbh ehh this could be cool for wvw as well since the epi’d condis carry the necro’s stats and bomb of burning from the guards will ruin you :/

If memory serves, they actually did do this originally… well Condition transfer anyways… but this had the result of Condition builds using Condi Transfer stuck dealing with low damage conditions from Power builds being transferred with their original weak strength…

To mirror something I said a long time ago in a thread about Combo Fields+Finishers spreading conditions…

They should use a combination of the original caster’s stats and yours. Something like 70% of the original + 50% of yours. This allows for high Condi builds to still deal some reasonable damage with transfered conditions from Power builds, and also allows Power builds to use condi transfer against Condi builds effectively. Condi vs Condi would have the highest output with this, but it wouldn’t be crazy high.

Same for Boon Stealing…

Panda.1967:

If memory serves, they actually did do this originally… well Condition transfer anyways… but this had the result of Condition builds using Condi Transfer stuck dealing with low damage conditions from Power builds being transferred with their original weak strength…

To mirror something I said a long time ago in a thread about Combo Fields+Finishers spreading conditions…

They should use a combination of the original caster’s stats and yours. Something like 70% of the original + 50% of yours. This allows for high Condi builds to still deal some reasonable damage with transfered conditions from Power builds, and also allows Power builds to use condi transfer against Condi builds effectively. Condi vs Condi would have the highest output with this, but it wouldn’t be crazy high.

Same for Boon Stealing…

That could legit break the game. Imgine wvw where in current year everyone spams condis in a zerg vs zerg fight. Now immgine the sme wvw fight but double the calculations to take into cnsideration both the players in case of boon steal corrupt condi transfer etc. Ye fun times

zealex.9410:

Panda.1967:

If memory serves, they actually did do this originally… well Condition transfer anyways… but this had the result of Condition builds using Condi Transfer stuck dealing with low damage conditions from Power builds being transferred with their original weak strength…

To mirror something I said a long time ago in a thread about Combo Fields+Finishers spreading conditions…

They should use a combination of the original caster’s stats and yours. Something like 70% of the original + 50% of yours. This allows for high Condi builds to still deal some reasonable damage with transfered conditions from Power builds, and also allows Power builds to use condi transfer against Condi builds effectively. Condi vs Condi would have the highest output with this, but it wouldn’t be crazy high.

Same for Boon Stealing…

That could legit break the game. Imgine wvw where in current year everyone spams condis in a zerg vs zerg fight. Now immgine the sme wvw fight but double the calculations to take into cnsideration both the players in case of boon steal corrupt condi transfer etc. Ye fun times

Well, every solution that won’t kitten off half the community is going to use more server resources.

You either get Condi/Boon Transfer uses the original caster’s stats benefiting only the people who didn’t stat for Condi/Boons or Condi/Boon Transfer using the transferor’s stats benefiting only the people who did stat for Condi/Boons. They tried benefiting the people who didn’t stat before, it created more problems than it was worth.

The only options that benefit both sides are:
Use the higher of the two (requires calculating twice an comparing results)
Use a combination of the two (requires calculating twice)

Or you can ignore both sides and go with this option:
Use a predefined Stat block across the board for Condi/Boon Transfers.

Every option has drawbacks… It just so happens that the way Condi/Boon Transfers are handled right now is the least impactful drawback. The best solutions have a large impact on the server, and the solution that has the least impact on the server is not in favor of the players on either side of the issue.

I believe the existing one doesnt mke teh game unplayable so why not stick with that hving both isnt an option and having the oposite will prob have its own downeffects so idk. Imo condi tranfers and corrupts should be the tansferors whil boon steals should be the original caster’s.
Op the target already gets punished twice because all the rpessure of condis he placed on you is gone and on top of that he gets a smaller added pressure from his own condis.

Think the oposite. You transfer the condis as a condi based build and the enemy aplies alot of blinds and criples slows etc and minor dmging burns/bleeds. A change like that would make it so for a condi build that benefits from transfering the condis to get less vlaue out of that spell even tho it makes much sense ( ill sent you your dmg back in double) Meanwhile a power build that doesnt revolve around that and doesnt build around condi dmg get full value.

In short, i believe we should leave higher condi dmg and corrupts to skillful play by plyers who build around condi while players who dont play condi get to benefit in a smaller way from it. And steals to the enemys stats so you get properly rewarded for the succesful steal.

zealex.9410:

I believe the existing one doesnt mke teh game unplayable so why not stick with that hving both isnt an option and having the oposite will prob have its own downeffects so idk. Imo condi tranfers and corrupts should be the tansferors whil boon steals should be the original caster’s.
Op the target already gets punished twice because all the rpessure of condis he placed on you is gone and on top of that he gets a smaller added pressure from his own condis.

Think the oposite. You transfer the condis as a condi based build and the enemy aplies alot of blinds and criples slows etc and minor dmging burns/bleeds. A change like that would make it so for a condi build that benefits from transfering the condis to get less vlaue out of that spell even tho it makes much sense ( ill sent you your dmg back in double) Meanwhile a power build that doesnt revolve around that and doesnt build around condi dmg get full value.

In short, i believe we should leave higher condi dmg and corrupts to skillful play by plyers who build around condi while players who dont play condi get to benefit in a smaller way from it. And steals to the enemys stats so you get properly rewarded for the succesful steal.

I can actually agree with this… Boon Steals should use the original caster’s stats for the boon… and Condi Transfers are in a good place using the Transferor’s stats as is…

Boon Steals have always felt unrewarding since they have always used your stats…

I don’t see why not.

After all venomshare uses caster stats, why not the same for application/stealing/transferring for other mechanics.

TexZero.7910:

I don’t see why not.

After all venomshare uses caster stats, why not the same for application/stealing/transferring for other mechanics.

exactly!

For condition transfers, they already do use the original caster’s stats. The only thing that changes with the condition stacks is who they are on when they are transferred. Remaining duration and damage don’t change.

Boon stealing, I’m less certain on. I think it already operates on the same principle, but I could be mistaken.

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

For condition transfers, they already do use the original caster’s stats. The only thing that changes with the condition stacks is who they are on when they are transferred. Remaining duration and damage don’t change.

Boon stealing, I’m less certain on. I think it already operates on the same principle, but I could be mistaken.

I use arcane thievery. It uses my own stats when I transfer conditions back to the caster. Same with boon steal. The duration isn’t unchanged.

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

For condition transfers, they already do use the original caster’s stats. The only thing that changes with the condition stacks is who they are on when they are transferred. Remaining duration and damage don’t change.

Correct.

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Boon stealing, I’m less certain on. I think it already operates on the same principle, but I could be mistaken.

It’s the same.

Hot Boy.7138:

I use arcane thievery. It uses my own stats when I transfer conditions back to the caster. Same with boon steal. The duration isn’t unchanged.

I haven’t tested Arcane Thievery specifically, but if you’re right this would be an exception to the rule.

The skill would have to delete the old and create a new set of condis and boons with the mesmer’s stats. Seems unlikely to me considering all other transfer skills just move them to a different target.

TexZero.7910:

I don’t see why not.

After all venomshare uses caster stats, why not the same for application/stealing/transferring for other mechanics.

Yeah but venom share doesnt have anythng to do with someone esle’s condis its your condis that are given to other’s attacks.

If power builds could tranfer full value of condi dmg back to their source why bother playing condi? Power does the job just fine

zealex.9410:

TexZero.7910:

I don’t see why not.

After all venomshare uses caster stats, why not the same for application/stealing/transferring for other mechanics.

Yeah but venom share doesnt have anythng to do with someone esle’s condis its your condis that are given to other’s attacks.

If power builds could tranfer full value of condi dmg back to their source why bother playing condi? Power does the job just fine

If everyone is power, then there’s no need to run condi transfer skills.

Just got around to testing it again.
I was wrong. The transfer caster’s stats are used.
This must’ve been changed somewhen during the past year, because it was definitely different before.

flow.6043:

Just got around to testing it again.
I was wrong. The transfer caster’s stats are used.
This must’ve been changed somewhen during the past year, because it was definitely different before.

rly?
big and imo annoying surprise.

Like lets be real, the only “transfer” class is necro and think everyone enjoys losing to power necro more as it has more telegraphed counterplay.
Or generosity sigil, but if you get 20x burns RNGed back from only 1x transfer, you deserve to feel bad.

But,
do the transfered condis still trigger allied rally bug ?
Im pretty sure i saw it happen this week

flow.6043:

Just got around to testing it again.
I was wrong. The transfer caster’s stats are used.
This must’ve been changed somewhen during the past year, because it was definitely different before.

It’s like no one bothered to read my earlier post where I stated that Condi Transfers used the original caster’s stats originally. It was changed to better support Condi builds a long while back… a long while back in fact… they’ve been using the transferor’s stats for more than a couple years now. This was done WAY back in the very first wave of “condi buffs” shortly after the game launched… the condi buffs that quite honestly did nothing to buff condi since the 50stack cap limit and weaker condis constantly overriding stronger ones made it useless…

it wasnt shortly after the game was launched. Pretty sure it was either after hot or right before hot that they changed the transfers to use the transferers stats and not the original casters stats

Panda.1967:

they’ve been using the transferor’s stats for more than a couple years now.

Wrong.

Also, this change was never mentioned in any patch notes, so your presumtion about the intention behind it is a guess at best, epsecially since your timing is off by at least 3 years.
For all we know it might as well have been an unintetional change.

Also, the stack cap used to be 25.

flow.6043:

Panda.1967:

they’ve been using the transferor’s stats for more than a couple years now.

Wrong.

Also, this change was never mentioned in any patch notes, so your presumtion about the intention behind it is a guess at best, epsecially since your timing is off by at least 3 years.
For all we know it might as well have been an unintetional change.

Also, the stack cap used to be 25.

i remember it being mention in some patch notes but i cant remember if it was right before hot dropped or right after but it was in that time frame, as i was playing essentially a power necro built to transfer condis at the time it was a big deal to me. It was absolutely intentional i think they even mentioned when they made the change the original way it was was the unintentional one.

now that i think more about it i think it was just before hot, as i believe i was also playing a signet necro at the time.

I checked patch notes of almost all of 2015, didn’t find anything.