Guild Wars 2

Why do you hate me so much? you make me very sad

^Lmao that account-name.

Poor TurreT EngineeR.

But ya, there certainly needs something to be done with turrets. Something reasonable, but enough to bring them more in line with other classes/builds.

I agree with you Jportell: Engineer class need to be a fun profession to challenge. That is the priority rule of challenge “Fun come First”.

TurreT EngineeR.8106:

Why do you hate me so much? you make me very sad

It is not hate you but need you to be a fun class to play with

okay… there are at least 5… FIVE new posts on this topic a day. Keep it down, I can’t hear myself over the sound of your tears hitting the floor!

#keepittoONEthread

Saturn.6591:

^Lmao that account-name.

Poor TurreT EngineeR.

But ya, there certainly needs something to be done with turrets. Something reasonable, but enough to bring them more in line with other classes/builds.

You mean more lines with builds they counter right? I only have 1 issue and that’s mid air turrets.

The problem though is how do we define fun?

For a lot of people it seems the engi is fun to play against if its dead.

And due to the nature of pvp i cant blame them i suppose.

miriforst.1290:

The problem though is how do we define fun?

For a lot of people it seems the engi is fun to play against if its dead.

And due to the nature of pvp i cant blame them i suppose.

The fact that nearly everyone just sighs and goes FML when they see an engi, because chances are it’s turrets. Most of the players in the game agree, its not fun to fight turrets. So think on that.

jportell.2197:

miriforst.1290:

The problem though is how do we define fun?

For a lot of people it seems the engi is fun to play against if its dead.

And due to the nature of pvp i cant blame them i suppose.

The fact that nearly everyone just sighs and goes FML when they see an engi, because chances are it’s turrets. Most of the players in the game agree, its not fun to fight turrets. So think on that.

Yes, but most people go “ehrmagerd make the turrets kill the engineer that spawned them, permaban then and give meh all their gold” style instead of suggesting reasonable reworks.

Imho the game has so few skills that smitersbooning an entire type should not be the way to go.

For example here is how you could do it:

The turrets are reworked to become stationary, destructible but stronger kits.

The overcharge is replaced by remotes that you can switch to to control the turrets which will then have an entire skill bar worth (to truly make them “kits”), hell you could even let allies control them. Why not slap on something like a disable of certain skills when placed similar to downed state, meaning you get a sense of scaling power the longer you manage to keep them up. Or why not skills that disable the entire turret for a while?

For example rocket turret could have the following skills:

1: Rocket-Fire a basic rocket at your target.
2:Heavy payload- A slow moving high aoe damage rocket, hits hard but have a large tell. Aoe targeted.
3:Countermeasures- Your rocket turret fires a barrage of countermeasures in the area, blocking projectiles for a short duration.
4:Heatseeker: A slow moving missile that homes onto its target. The target will get a crosshair above its head. Disables the rocket turrets skills for X seconds. Causes bleed.
5:Tactical strike:(initially disabled) After designating an area (kill shot cast, immobile) with a laser, a slow moving and arching rocket is launched towards the area. Causes a launch on the enemies affected.

Is this stronger than the current turrets? I don’t know. Is it different? Yes.

And it would hopefully take turrets from being the entry level to probably some of the harder skills to use for the engineer. This was just an example, but its different to simply removing them, creating a unique style of play and hopefully a fairer sense of counter play. Oh and turrets should scale (but that means critting as well, remember).

Its faster though to simply break them, but i suppose thats how it is.

Its easier and faster to break something than fixing or creating.
And what most people are arguing for is breaking.

And in the same move please fix mortar.

jportell.2197:

I don’t care what the kitten you wanna say about them being OP, easy to counter, not easy to counter, whatever. Simple fricking matter of the fact is. This is just unfun to fight/play against.

The most unfun profession to fight against is certainly Mesmer. Even thieves don’t compare to the “unfun” value as Mesmer’s. There is simply nothing fun about fighting a Mesmer at all. Give Engi’s a “Turret’s on dodge” trait and see how much “fun” it is.

One of the most fun matches this week was going after a Turret Engi. Nothing more fun than decapping, capping, holding, and defeating a Turret Engi, with a Turret Engi. Because the more a fight is protracted, the more precision and skill is required to win.

DeWolfe.2174:

jportell.2197:

I don’t care what the kitten you wanna say about them being OP, easy to counter, not easy to counter, whatever. Simple fricking matter of the fact is. This is just unfun to fight/play against.

The most unfun profession to fight against is certainly Mesmer. Even thieves don’t compare to the “unfun” value as Mesmer’s. There is simply nothing fun about fighting a Mesmer at all. Give Engi’s a “Turret’s on dodge” trait and see how much “fun” it is.

One of the most fun matches this week was going after a Turret Engi. Nothing more fun than decapping, capping, holding, and defeating a Turret Engi, with a Turret Engi. Because the more a fight is protracted, the more precision and skill is required to win.

So youre saying mesmer isn’t fun to fight against. But then you say the best way to fight a turret engi is with another turret engi. #Logic

I suspect they’re waiting for stronghold to make turrets obsolete rather than nerfing a potentially interesting set of skills for open world PvE or WvW or something. Unfortunately, that still leaves conquest forever ruined.

I agree that mesmsers can make teamfights a dread. Turret engieers aren’t as bad due to the stationary nature of turrets. But fighting 10 players mid, and only 4 being real players is frustrating. 1v1 Mesmer isn’t bad, but they clutter the screen so I can’t target. Only options are mass aoe or moving los to funnel the clones. Luckily, mesmers aren’t a good profession to stack due to limited mobility and being squishy, so you’ll only usually encounter 1-2 a game.

Turrets are also annoying to fight on a point, but not as bad. They have even less mobility than mesmer, but they don’t go down easy. Taking out the rocket turrets cuts their damage in half for the next 50 seconds, which is important if forced to fight on turreted points. And it only takes 5-10 seconds. (unless you are a fearbomber, but then you should let your teamates take out the rocket, and rush in after to fear bomb the engie)

Not alot is fun to fight against in this game. Whether that be fire/air procs for 5k off AUTO ATTACKS (cant be dodged lolz wp), 2200 range longbow shots, turrets, necro lich form, moa, slick shoes cc ing you for ages, panic strike immobing for days, shoutbows just running all day spamming skills.

Yeh nothing is fun to fight against. They failed in this fundamental design task.

Result = no pvp scene. They give away real money and still only 4/5 teams show up. The competitive pvp community is about 30 people on eu. “New” teams are just the same dudes moving around teams.

Its the truth. And it won’t change. So gg.

See this: “When Difficult Is Fun” – “The Difference Between Challenging and Punishing Games”

WoW had a lot better balance when i played it in BC times. I played warlock thats why i play necromancer here because its the closest to warlock that fit my playstyle.

There every comp worked in arena up to player skills. You just needed a healer and some dps for 5v5 or 1 healer 1 dps or 2 dps for 2v2 arena.
There wasnt a thing like focus the warlock because it have low sustain and can’t get away so it makes my team weak if they don’t babysitting me the whole match or not able to defend me so i drop in 2sec to hard focus. oh and if i remember good the CC worked there like if you get like 2 CC after the first CC the second CC’s duration is less than the first if you get 3 CC you become immune + you had a CC break pvp trinket Here that lot of CC immobilize stack, knockback spamming instant kills the necromancer.
Every class was able to survive good on their own.
There was useful racial skills like human racial detect stealthed enemy a bit for some sec if he getting close.
Also GW2’s stealth counts kitten OP if we check WoW’s rogues stealth.
This game meta have cheesie classes with cheesie builds that top teams ofc play. They should be just as balanced as necromancer’s current state.

There PvP scene works good, big and not only 4 competetive teams have.

jportell.2197:

So youre saying mesmer isn’t fun to fight against. But then you say the best way to fight a turret engi is with another turret engi. #Logic

No, I said that having taken on an already established Turret Engi on far, with a Turret Engi was the most fun I’ve had this week. It was also the most gratifying fight in weeks. Since we were equally built, beating the other player required more skill and timing than going against any other build in game. Especially when we must have went at it for a couple of minutes.

Lordrosicky.5813:

Not alot is fun to fight against in this game.

That’s why I say Snowball Mayhem is actually the best PvP in the game. It simply is the most fun 5v5 PvP available. The skills themselves and the animations are fun.

I enjoy going against a turret engineer. My abilities bounce nicely between the engineer and the turret and back again. As an AOE build for either staff or S/D, I’m ripe with possibilities of ways to destroy turret and engineer together. First key thing to do in these situations is set every attack to the Engi’s Healing Turret. That is priority #1 due to the short timer AOE heal it does. Then, just nuke, snare, nuke, stun, nuke, push, nuke. Falls easily enough.

jportell.2197:

Turrets need hotnerfed just to make them a little fun to fight against.

Idea!

Turrets fire cream pies and confetti. Purely cosmetic (and fun)

This is a pure fun buff to Turret Engies. Turret Engies will now come with 100% more fun in matches with this change. You say hotnerf, I say hotbuff ;D

suggestion:

1. make turrets susceptible to critical hits and conditions. keep them immune to poison, cripple, immobilize, weakness, and fear for both logical reasons (i.e. turrets can’t feel fear or any other emotions, hopefully) as well as balance reasons.
2. slightly increase turret base HP.
3. make turrets susceptible to incoming allied condition clears, including those from water fields.
4. allow turrets to be affected by incoming allied healing (excluding regen the boon) at reduced effectiveness.
5. keep turrets immune to incoming allied boons and buffs.

these changes would perfectly address turret engineer’s imbalances in 1v1s/1v2s by lowering the base survivability of turrets on their own, which offers turret engineers more incentive to place their turrets in more vulnerable areas to be stronger in general, but especially in teamfights.

Ross Biddle.2367:

jportell.2197:

Turrets need hotnerfed just to make them a little fun to fight against.

Idea!

Turrets fire cream pies and confetti. Purely cosmetic (and fun)

This is a pure fun buff to Turret Engies. Turret Engies will now come with 100% more fun in matches with this change. You say hotnerf, I say hotbuff ;D

Lmao.

I’m afraid it might feel humiliating then for some poeple, though. ^^

wow, no learn to play or learn to adapt smartas comments? it seems that finally people have understood that heimerdinger needs to go.

Saturn.6591:

Ross Biddle.2367:

jportell.2197:

Turrets need hotnerfed just to make them a little fun to fight against.

Idea!

Turrets fire cream pies and confetti. Purely cosmetic (and fun)

This is a pure fun buff to Turret Engies. Turret Engies will now come with 100% more fun in matches with this change. You say hotnerf, I say hotbuff ;D

Lmao.

I’m afraid it might feel humiliating then for some poeple, though. ^^

A big black high health and toughness turret spraying creampieshots that would cc you and give aoe stability to keep everyone up would be awesome

manarchon.2089:

Saturn.6591:

Ross Biddle.2367:

jportell.2197:

Turrets need hotnerfed just to make them a little fun to fight against.

Idea!

Turrets fire cream pies and confetti. Purely cosmetic (and fun)

This is a pure fun buff to Turret Engies. Turret Engies will now come with 100% more fun in matches with this change. You say hotnerf, I say hotbuff ;D

Lmao.

I’m afraid it might feel humiliating then for some poeple, though. ^^

A big black high health and toughness turret spraying creampieshots that would cc you and give aoe stability to keep everyone up would be awesome

I’m not sure if I really understood that the right way, lol… I’m afraid I did, though. If so, I wouldn’t want to get that kind of cc, and I also wouldn’t want to get that kind of stability. Good thing it wouldn’t work out that way, though; since your opponents would actually have to get stability first before the cc could be applied.

Aaaaaaaaaaand now I’m gonna shut my mouth (and any other openings) and hope I didn’t break any rules with this reply.

You can make fun of this kittening thread all you want. But if you honestly think facing a full team of 2 or more turret engis with other stupid specs like cele ele etc and you are in a pug. Then you are the most masochist mofo I have ever met. It’s not fun, and you know it.

jportell.2197:

You can make fun of this kittening thread all you want. But if you honestly think facing a full team of 2 or more turret engis with other stupid specs like cele ele etc and you are in a pug. Then you are the most masochist mofo I have ever met. It’s not fun, and you know it.

Not sure how you’d know if they were strong or not. All you do is kitten in chat all match, and spend the rest of the time in downed state. I’m sure anything seems OP to you. >_>

ronpierce.2760:

jportell.2197:

You can make fun of this kittening thread all you want. But if you honestly think facing a full team of 2 or more turret engis with other stupid specs like cele ele etc and you are in a pug. Then you are the most masochist mofo I have ever met. It’s not fun, and you know it.

Not sure how you’d know if they were strong or not. All you do is kitten in chat all match, and spend the rest of the time in downed state. I’m sure anything seems OP to you. >_>

Coming from the guy that couldn’t fricking res his teammates mid when two of the opposite team were down and two of yours were down. FYI I wasn’t in that fight, and you still didn’t res anyone. So yeah you aren’t all hot kitten either kitten off.

jportell.2197:

ronpierce.2760:

jportell.2197:

You can make fun of this kittening thread all you want. But if you honestly think facing a full team of 2 or more turret engis with other stupid specs like cele ele etc and you are in a pug. Then you are the most masochist mofo I have ever met. It’s not fun, and you know it.

Not sure how you’d know if they were strong or not. All you do is kitten in chat all match, and spend the rest of the time in downed state. I’m sure anything seems OP to you. >_>

Coming from the guy that couldn’t fricking res his teammates mid when two of the opposite team were down and two of yours were down. FYI I wasn’t in that fight, and you still didn’t res anyone. So yeah you aren’t all hot kitten either kitten off.

It was outnumbered and I got knocked back by a LB ranger, then feared by their warrior who wasn’t dead, then their downed Necro, and we had, what, our 1 guy who was dead? I’m not super man, but at least I tried to do something rather than standing off to the side kittening and getting killed constantly.

You don’t see the irony that you seem to have a lot of insight on a fight you weren’t “in”?

when i try and theorycraft a build i never try and make it fun for my opponents to fight. quite the opposite. if you fought me and thought it was demoralising and awful i would consider it a success.

Personal attacks aren’t going to get this discussion anywhere. This really comes down to one topic:

Why Aren’t Turrets Fun to Fight?

So, what specifically is it? I know the gut reaction answer of “It’s AI” is a popular one, but that’s not going to change. I think the key is that there is almost no input necessary from the player and yet there is a lot of effect gained. So, either the effectiveness needs to go down or the input from the player needs to be increased. Quite honestly, I think it needs to be a slight mix of both. I personally don’t want to see turret engis sneak their way into high level tournaments, even if it can become just as skillful as current difficult builds.

The Gates Assassin.9827:

Personal attacks aren’t going to get this discussion anywhere. This really comes down to one topic:

Why Aren’t Turrets Fun to Fight?

So, what specifically is it? I know the gut reaction answer of “It’s AI” is a popular one, but that’s not going to change. I think the key is that there is almost no input necessary from the player and yet there is a lot of effect gained. So, either the effectiveness needs to go down or the input from the player needs to be increased. Quite honestly, I think it needs to be a slight mix of both. I personally don’t want to see turret engis sneak their way into high level tournaments, even if it can become just as skillful as current difficult builds.

Mainly, it’s the fact that what someone put in here earlier. Turrets aren’t a challenge to fight. They are punishing. It is very punishing to fight turreteers. It’s pretty telling that most players just say “avoid the point the turrets are on” as a way to deal with them.

Turrets need to be adjusted to be as useful as Guardian’s Spirit Weapons. It’s only fair.

manarchon.2089:

Saturn.6591:

Ross Biddle.2367:

jportell.2197:

Turrets need hotnerfed just to make them a little fun to fight against.

Idea!

Turrets fire cream pies and confetti. Purely cosmetic (and fun)

This is a pure fun buff to Turret Engies. Turret Engies will now come with 100% more fun in matches with this change. You say hotnerf, I say hotbuff ;D

Lmao.

I’m afraid it might feel humiliating then for some poeple, though. ^^

A big black high health and toughness turret spraying creampieshots that would cc you and give aoe stability to keep everyone up would be awesome

however I read that, it’s way too funny

YuiRS.8129:

Turrets need to be adjusted to be as useful as Guardian’s Spirit Weapons. It’s only fair.

Other way around man. By logic if they create skills they should be useful somewhere AI is terrible at PvE or WvW… Banners made all three modes turrets should follow that.

The main problems I see are:

- They do a bit too much for the engineer that the engineer doesn’t have to help allow. Example being their long range. Minion masters who are also heavy AI must control the enemy to get that damage in. Both have AI that do too much of a % of the builds overall damage and don’t have enough utility. All 3 major pet utility builds tend to do best when spammed on CD for actives.

- They are overly resilient. Spirit weapons and Minions have long cast times and get destroyed by AOE while turrets are personal tanks. All should be effected by conditions, but each should have a trait that increases HP(or reduces damage taken to differentiate between them for flavor) and reduce condition TIMES by 50%. The reason being, conditions do a lot to objects that can’t remove it, but they still need to be able to deal damage. The best way to handle it is if all were affected but at a reduced duration to balance not having removal.

- Engineer’s CC as a whole is just too good. Rifle alone has an instant launch and immobilize which are already issues for the real meta build, Cele Rifle. Add to that, thumper and rocket, it becomes too much front loaded no-cast/no-telegraph CC. Turrets need a real tell and the special rocket needs more of a visual when flying.

- Thumper sometimes thumps twice, not sure if it’s intended or not, but it’s a real issue. It’s cool down is also pretty low for what it does (the active part). Also on a point it’s near per a cripple. Just reduce it to 1.5 sec per cripple application.

What needs to happen:
- Turrets need to take condition damage, but all pet builds need 50% condi duration baked into its main defensive trait.

- Traits should be redesigned to not buff turrets so much, and instead be designed to promote synergy for the energy for having turrets such as increased damage per turret and so on. (Boons do a decent job of this, but it could go further).

- Turrets need to not heal over time, instead, to promote thoughtful picking up and placement, change the healing per 5 seconds to “Salvage Parts:” reduce the cool down of picked up turrets by 50%. That way, watching turret health and picking them up to roam is a more viable option. This adds play to placement (being sure you can pick up a turret before it is killed) and reduces up time mid-fight, and helps roaming all in one.

- Give “active turrets” a better tell and more predictable reaction such as resetting the “swing timer” on rocket/thumper but always trigger 2 seconds after it lights up.

- Add a .5 sec tell to OCS

- Make the turret explosion knockdown trait (name escapes me) only on turret detonation, not death, but increase radius slightly.

That’s my feels.

They give too much map control, if they set up mid you cannot fight mid so their team just needs to hold close and you need to take far – as we all know this is a massive advantage to the enemy team.

Anything which runs to a point and says “you cannot fight here” is bullkitten. Obviously some people will claim they are so awful at the game they can still be beaten in teamfights with a turret engi on that point but we need to try and look past those horrendous players. I’ve been pugging recently and beaten teams we really shouldn’t have (R O M and friends – I really hope you don’t mind me using your name here its only to make a point and i acknowledge we wouldn’t have beaten you without the turret) due entirely to a turret engi parked on mid.

Please lets kill turrets, fire+air, damage attached to certain cc/utility skills (deathsroud fear, mesmer gs5, judge’s intervention), kittenING BURNING and condi damage sourced entirely through geo+doom.

Seriously I can’t remember my last death where burning wasn’t top damage… (why does EVERYTHING cause this O_o)

" False expectations take away joy " That is what is happening to us, That is the reason why we are no longer happy. We tried very hard to expect a solution but we finally realize: the joke was on us all the time

It is now very obvious: challenge and fun was never required in this game for us.

But I have very good news: Square Enix: upcoming Final Fantasy 14 reborn Expansion will make us happy again and hopeful again. I introduce you The Mechanic/Engineer. Enjoy

http://www.primagames.com/games/final-fantasy-xiv-realm-reborn/feature/final-fantasy-14-heavensward-dark-knight-astrologian-machinist

Sagat.3285:

YuiRS.8129:

Turrets need to be adjusted to be as useful as Guardian’s Spirit Weapons. It’s only fair.

Other way around man. By logic if they create skills they should be useful somewhere AI is terrible at PvE or WvW… Banners made all three modes turrets should follow that.

yo turrets made all 3 modes… healing turret is a must everywhere cuz its so good. even hgh engis have a tough decision between H and healing turret in pvp and wvw. crate edges out X a lot of the time everywhere.

also, SotA is extremely useful in fractals. to the point where “good runs” almost always include a guard who knows when to use it. and theres a ridiculously large difference between good runs and bad comps with dungeon master noobs, unlike the older dungeons.

insanemaniac.2456:

Sagat.3285:

YuiRS.8129:

Turrets need to be adjusted to be as useful as Guardian’s Spirit Weapons. It’s only fair.

Other way around man. By logic if they create skills they should be useful somewhere AI is terrible at PvE or WvW… Banners made all three modes turrets should follow that.

yo turrets made all 3 modes… healing turret is a must everywhere cuz its so good. even hgh engis have a tough decision between H and healing turret in pvp and wvw. crate edges out X a lot of the time everywhere.

also, SotA is extremely useful in fractals. to the point where “good runs” almost always include a guard who knows when to use it. and theres a ridiculously large difference between good runs and bad comps with dungeon master noobs, unlike the older dungeons.

Utility wise man like meditations can make all 3 modes. That’s the issue with variations it has to be useful somewhere even if not meta it seems AI focus specs are for PvP turrets being conquest specific.