Guild Wars 2

Over a year ago, Cloak and Dagger was adjusted for PvP in the wake of popular instant-gib builds.

I think the damage of the ability was reduced by 30% or so in sPvP.

However for a while now Thieves haven’t really had popular builds that get a significant amount of damage from Cloak and Dagger. In fact, Sword/Dagger is the only one I can think of that actually uses Cloak and Dagger and even then it’s highly situational and only used to setup an interrupt.

Anyway, my point is that I believe it would be in order to revert this Cloak and Dagger nerf and see how things go from there.

CnD is still really good for any thieves specced heavily in to stealth traits.
with the healing and regen traits you can pretty much reset the fight on demand since you can reliably restealth over and over forever

if cnd did decent damage it would be hilariously OP since you can just keep using it the instant you reappear, its more of a very potent utility skill than a damage skill.

If youre resetting the fight over and over then all they are doing is wasting time while the enemy wins. Stealth is a burden in spvp. A complete liability

Liewec.2896:

CnD is still really good for any thieves specced heavily in to stealth traits.
with the healing and regen traits you can pretty much reset the fight on demand since you can reliably restealth over and over forever

if cnd did decent damage it would be hilariously OP since you can just keep using it the instant you reappear, its more of a very potent utility skill than a damage skill.

No thief in their right mind will ever go 6 in Shadow Arts for those traits in PvP…. In WvW it is pretty much obligatory, but in PvP – never. I do think reverting that nerf would indeed help brining d/d back to the PvP scene. It’s very uncommon to see d/d thieves since d/p do what d/d do, only better. If d/d would get more burst it could actually be viable again.

Only map an SA theif works on is Skyhammer with scorpion wire. Otherwise you are wasting your time using stealth to heavily and giving the other team an advantage.

I second the notion that C&D should be un-nerfed. It was around when mug could crit, and we had access to higher + Crit Damage multipliers, now that crit damage has taken a dive, and mug can no longer crit, the damage output from this skill, on top of them adding revealed, paired with the fact it’s substantially weaker than it’s BPS + HS counterpart, would make it a prime candidate for boosting its effectiveness.

The damage nerf should be reverted, the initiative cost should be lowered, and it should get 5 stacks of vuln for 10s instead of 3 stacks for 5s. That, and fixing death blossom into an actual usable skill would give us a functioning D/D weapon set with minimal effort.

I don’t think that CnD needs a damage increase. I’m not completely against a buff to CnD since it is kinda sad to see D/D in such a bad spot for sPvP and now nerfed for WvW as well, but I think that a buff like making it unblockable.

Honestly they need to revert the CnD and Mug Nerfs.

Dahkeus.8243:

I don’t think that CnD needs a damage increase. I’m not completely against a buff to CnD since it is kinda sad to see D/D in such a bad spot for sPvP and now nerfed for WvW as well, but I think that a buff like making it unblockable.

Blocking cnd is one of the counters vsing x/d stealth reliant thief, hell no to making it unblockable.

T raw.4658:

Honestly they need to revert the CnD and Mug Nerfs.

Damage output from thiefs atm is quite good no need to revert those nerfs.

T raw.4658:

Honestly they need to revert the CnD and Mug Nerfs.

Low level play in hotjoins and SPvP would QQ, there would be 5 threads at any time for weeks on these forums about getting 1 shot.

When I first played GW2 thats what I ran on my thief (I didnt know any better), in ~2 seconds you had a mug,2 CnD and a backstab if you precasted, which one shots any zerker setup if everything crits (you should have like 70-80% crit?), and kills most anything if they don’t react properly withing 4-5 seconds, which as sad as that sounds most people in hotjoins and solo que have a hard time doing.

Game has to cater to noobies too you know.

C&D should be unerffed. Right now C&D does the same damage as a HS above 50%. It’s higher risk with lower reward if you’re considering d/p or d/d. Wat.

Decrease the casting time to 0.25s and maybe add something extra, rather than the poor 3 invulnerability stacks it gets

Steal (2k) + Cloak and Dagger (2-3k) + Backstab (7-9K)

Borderline overpowered right now, the only reason you guys are doing low damage is because of warriors. A better adjustment would be is to nerf warriors.

vincecontix.1264:

Dahkeus.8243:

I don’t think that CnD needs a damage increase. I’m not completely against a buff to CnD since it is kinda sad to see D/D in such a bad spot for sPvP and now nerfed for WvW as well, but I think that a buff like making it unblockable.

Blocking cnd is one of the counters vsing x/d stealth reliant thief, hell no to making it unblockable.

So is dodging and blinding. Unlike D/P, these counters don’t stop the stealth, but instead, they only stop the damage. With X/D, dodge, block, blind completely prevent the stealth and damage.

But really, the more I think about it, the less I think that a CnD buff should be considered for D/D since a CnD buff also buffs S/D, which is still in a fair place.

A rework of Death Blossom probably makes more sense.

Mug ccertainly doesn’t need to return to its previous form. It used to crit for 6000 which was just stupid.

As for Cloak and Dagger, we don’t need to speculate how “OP” it would be since PvE and WvW both use the unnerfed version. And I don’t recall the last time I got hit by a Cloak and Dagger that really made me gasp.

T raw.4658:

Honestly they need to revert the CnD and Mug Nerfs.

Only a bad thief would think Mug needs to be un-nerfed to where it was.

I rather them rework Deathblossom, up damage on dancing daggers, and make CnD to 5 stacks of vulnerability