Guild Wars 2

I sure hope it helps. But i am quite supprised by the second bug, as i remember we were told this is supposed to happen?
But hey, thank you for looking at it.

Second bug explains a lot, and in turn has revealed a lot of toxic players along the way.
Some of the top I’ve seen as of late

“Noobs go back to pve and catch some crabs”
“My invisible mini pet is doing a better job capping than you nubs.”

But my favorite of them all, which I actually did lawl about.
“I am taking the Charles Darwin approach and raging quitting at least that way I don’t know whether all you die or not” – Kudos to those who understand that.

Have to give them points for creativity.

Anyone up for starting Evan Fanclub? It’s long overdue.

I’m impressed with the transparency of your post and really do appreciate how you’re on top of improving matchmaking quality.

That second bug you mentioned was something I hypothesized

Evan Lesh.3295:

Second, we’ve found a very sneaky bug in the way we distribute players across the two teams. The goal of the system is to ping-pong back and forth between red and blue team to evenly distribute player skill. In reality, the bug caused the highest rated player between the two teams to usually be teamed with mostly lower skilled players. For matches with high skill spread, this could result in one player feeling like they were matched with a surprisingly low-skilled team. This was hard to notice because matchmaking was always picking ten similarly skilled players to start with, so the problem only really presents in the high and low MMR brackets where there are fewer players to choose from.

Good grief, that explains so much… Thank you for the work. I’m glad matchmaking is being worked on.

Wolfs Shadow.7234:

“I am taking the Charles Darwin approach and raging quitting at least that way I don’t know whether all you die or not” – Kudos to those who understand that.

If it said Schroedinger I’d get it, but Darwin? No idea

It’s good we’re finding bugs two years after implementation.

what about the pug unfairly matched vs premade guild?

EARL.8312:

what about the pug unfairly matched vs premade guild?

Sounds like working as intended. That’s why they removed solo queue, right?

Im happy to hear this, because it means alot of players didnt imagine things. Looking forward to the update!

This is good to know but it’s also the confirmation we won’t see the soloqueue come back in the first pvp league season, cuz it’s obvious you’re trying a different way.

I think we could give it a chance but I’m not really optimistic about soloqueue experience without a pure soloqueue.

We’ll see but I think complaints will be super high.

I hope i will be wrong.

Let this be a lesson to all the people who were claiming matchmaking was fine… mindlessly defending the status quo when there’s signs that something is up isn’t helpful.

Phil.8901:

We’ll see but I think complaints will be super high.

I hope i will be wrong.

We’re on MMO game forums. People will complain no matter what happens.

Harrier.9380:

Phil.8901:

We’ll see but I think complaints will be super high.

I hope i will be wrong.

We’re on MMO game forums. People will complain no matter what happens.

Honest question, does anet even allocate enough resources to the PvP team to have internal testing??

How on earth does an obvious bug like that go unfixed for such a LONG PERIOD OF TIME…. its amazing really. I continue to be impressed at how little the higher ups at NCsoft/anet care about the PvP team….

Even high level players (heselth in particulur lol) have been screaming about MMR
issues for years!

Its just….idk…disheartening to see it take THIS LONG to figure out problems and implement solutions…. and its all because anet/NCsoft suits don’t really give a rat’s kitten about PvP…..from balancing to issues like this, to simple stuff that should have been implemented from the get go like map voting….

I’m glad this is particular issue is being resolved (better late than never right?) but don’t expect a pat on the back….this is something that should have been figured out AGES ago….

Harrier.9380:

Phil.8901:

We’ll see but I think complaints will be super high.

I hope i will be wrong.

We’re on MMO game forums. People will complain no matter what happens.

The problem is when complaints are focused on major issues

Amante.8109:

Let this be a lesson to all the people who were claiming matchmaking was fine… mindlessly defending the status quo when there’s signs that something is up isn’t helpful.

I know what you mean. I usually ignore people like that because they hinder progress and never really bring anything positive to the discussion.

Thank you very much Evan.

It would still be really nice to actually see the ladder and MMR.

What matters is that they did a good job tracking down a sneaky bug that matched extremes. Those almost always turn out sour.

Plus they are disabling some code that locked our MMRs and prevented us from climbing up. This is definitely 2 steps in the right direction and possibly a huge win for all pvp lovers.

when are these changes going into effect?

Thanks for the changes, Evan.

Also, are you guys going to fix the issue with stat tracking and PVP rank points?

I have two full champion titles (meaning I would have at minimum 300 arena games assuming 100% win rate). This isn’t even counting the number of arena games I’ve won with the same classes after obtaining champ titles or with other classes. Yet, my in-game stats only acknowledges that I’ve played slightly over 100 or so total arena games. This is mathematically impossible, and I feel that there is definitely an issue here with stat logging.

Furthermore, I only have ~310k or so rank points, but in a previous post I identified that obtaining one champion title alone would generate ~360k rank points (assuming 50% W/L). Going by this logic, I should at minimum have 700k rank points based off of the two champion titles alone (and not taking into consideration the many other arena games I’ve won/lost).

On a final note: According to the GW2efficiency site, my winrate for arenas is 53% and my total winrate is 60%. So I’d understand that my case does not reflect a pure 50% W/L (which is what all my assumptions are based off of), but I do strongly feel that my case indicates something is seriously wrong with in-game stat tracking.

Thanks for your time btw!

Noob question… what’s MMR?

Mewling Kittens.7965:

Noob question… what’s MMR?

I think is Matchmaking Rating?

Thank you Evan. Thank you for rising my confidence.

Emtiarbi.3281:

Mewling Kittens.7965:

Noob question… what’s MMR?

I think is Matchmaking Rating?

Yep. It uses a system called Glicko (soon changing to ELO) that assigns a number based on your performance. We can’t see our MMR right now (but hopefully that will change) so people tend to guess a lot about how good they are.

I’d really love to know the raw Glicko for myself so I can compare it to top players. Even if it were just through the API. Anet plz.

Evan Lesh.3295:

Mewling Kittens.7965:

Noob question… what’s MMR?

It stands for Match Making Rating. We use the Glicko 2 algorithm to assign a number to each player that represents skill level in order to match similarly-skilled players together.

Details here:
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/PvP_Matchmaking_Algorithm
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glicko_rating_system

Any possible way we can see our Glicko rating?

I’d really be interested in how low mine is so I can wallow in self pity

sounds great . lets see how things go when I play good to see that you guys are working to make match making better

Did you guys ban Justin from commenting on the forums because his responses were too good?

Please respond— he was the hero we deserved.

Darn I though MMR stood for Mainstream Music Rocks (not really, I hate it)
Learnin’ something new each day!

More importantly, THANKS EVAN!!!!!!!!!

Goodness my word.

Does this mean I will no longer have teammates who say they will take home and runs to the waterfall when we’re the red team?

Someone say yes and I will be happy forever.

how long till the implementation of this?

Exodus.6501:

Did you guys ban Justin from commenting on the forums because his responses were too good?

Please respond— he was the hero we deserved.

Aww come on now, Evan is our hero too, man.

Justin would be answering the swarms of questions we were bombarding him with on Sundays and weird hours. My guess is that we were prolly taking up his programming time or he told his boss that he’s had it with us pestering him 24/7 and wants out of the forum duties.

Evan Lesh.3295:

SkiTz.4590:

How on earth does an obvious bug like that go unfixed for such a LONG PERIOD OF TIME…..

It’s not an obvious bug at all. It changes entirely depending on what roster sizes and player MMRs are in the match. The 10 players are already very similar in MMR before splitting them onto teams, and the ‘best’ player is different every match so its not like one particular set of players was always being affected by this bug. Players still have ~50% win rates. It’s very hard to track down ‘gut feelings’ about matchmaking :P

Luckily we have some powerful tools now to get better global data about how matchmaking is performing that helped lead to the discovery.

@Evan I have been wanting to hug you for several days now for hunting down these minute little details that affect us not so obviously but are there. Thanks for searching for needles in Haystacks, so MUCH!

I always had this question: Since there is a number that supposedly “describes” our skill level, why can’t we use this number as our rating in the leaderboards? Why does it need one number for matchmaking and a different one for the leaderboard? I’m not being sarcastic, i really can’t understand it.

As one of the louder people complaining about the matchmaking system I will say I am truly grateful to hear Anet is trying improve the system.

I pray these updates will help keep pugs from getting obliterated by premades but that is probably not likely; however, if it helps pug vs pug that is better than nothing.

@Evan:

You forgot #3

3. Prevent a group of 5 PUGs from ever being matched against a team that has 3 or more people partied together.

this changes coming pre hot or with hot?

T raw.4658:

Any possible way we can see our Glicko rating?

I’d really be interested in how low mine is so I can wallow in self pity

Its really for the best if we don’t have access to them. If you don’t know, no one can demand that you tell them…

Nike.2631:

T raw.4658:

Any possible way we can see our Glicko rating?

I’d really be interested in how low mine is so I can wallow in self pity

Its really for the best if we don’t have access to them. If you don’t know, no one can demand that you tell them…

I’d wear it like a badge of honor on how bad I am!

Telling the highest MMR player in the game my pathetic score would bring joy as he unleashes his tears.

Good to hear you guys are continuing to work on better matchmaking. Excited for these changes to be implemented!

Wouldn’t showing everyones rating in game at the end of the round identified this problem faster so people can post how they had a high rating with low rating people vs a more even spread on the other team?

Great find, Evan. Good matchmaking is super hard (and super interesting!), and it’s cool to see you make improvements.

Hopefully this fixes that hellish solo queue.

While you are at it, can we get a proper rating system? It makes me kinda angry to sit at 50% all the time, as it means I never actually feel like I’m making any progress at all… The fact that PvE is about 500% more rewarding does not help much either.

This is cool and all but when are we gonna be allowed to queue outside of Heart of the Mists?

Tux kitten inguin.3049:

I sure hope it helps. But i am quite supprised by the second bug, as i remember we were told this is supposed to happen?

From the sound of it its been too much skewed against the high mmr player.

Nike.2631:

T raw.4658:

Any possible way we can see our Glicko rating?

I’d really be interested in how low mine is so I can wallow in self pity

Its really for the best if we don’t have access to them. If you don’t know, no one can demand that you tell them…

Other games show rating why can ’t GW2?