Guild Wars 2

So I thought about compiling a list of non-HoT builds, that are viable in the current meta.
Here’s the outlining conditions:
-All three chosen trait lines need to be powerful. If any of the lines could be replaced by an elite specialization and the build would be better for it, the build is out.
-The build needs to be able to fulfill a vital role. It needs to be about as effective as comparable builds from other classes.
-The build needs to have a reasonable amount of sustain and the ability to survive in a diverse meta.

So here are my thoughts:

Thief: Any thief build can be improved by dropping a trait line and replacing it with daredevil.

Mesmer: There may be some condi builds but at large anything gets overshadowed by Chronomancer.

Ranger: Virtually any Ranger build can be improved by choosing the Druid spec.

Guardian: Bunker guard is solid and doesn’t benefit from DH in any way.
Condi guard is too squishy for the meta.
DH is an improvement to meditation builds.

Elementalist: Celestial staff bunker is probably the best non-HoT build out there. D/D seems also viable, though slightly overshadowed by the ongoing power creep.

Warrior: As always when there is a very diverse meta, Warrior is unplayable. Between high power and high condi builds and a lot of cc, it’s impossible to cover all the angles.

Necromancer: The innate lack of stability makes necromancer a poor choice in the current meta. Reaper supplements a lot of the possible builds (and provides stability). Any builds that benefit from having death shroud don’t stack up to the meta all that well.

Engineer: I’m no great engineer player at all, but there should be viable builds out there.

So what about Arena.net’s promise that the elite specializations would merely open up new possibilities but in no shape or form obsolete old builds?
The way, I see it, any non-HoT player is relegated to a bunker role, if he wants to be competitive.

naphack.9346:

So what about Arena.net’s promise that the elite specializations would merely open up new possibilities but in no shape or form obsolete old builds?

All PR. Elite specs are so obviously a cash grab its sad.

Bunker guard isn’t viable any more, you get melted too fast and easily by HoT builds it sounds good in theory but the power creep has been insane. Bunker mes and auramancer are both better bunkers and bring even more utility to the team.

I fare quite well with my bunker guard tho.
The only thing that really melts you (and I mean REALLY melts you) is condi reapers.
But they beat you so handily, if you have just one or two shouts on cooldown from an ongoing fight, you are dead the second, they touch you.

Bunker Chrono mesmer does bunker guard’s job at least 5x better. More boon support, quickness rez, group evades and heals, quickness pretty much on demand and personal/group alacrity. Oh and they have portal! Which completely breaks the one drawback that being a bunker used to have: no mobility.

Playing non-elite specs is like playing without a full deck of cards.

Marauder Scrapper is a very, very strong build, and is probably the best marauder build that was ever available for engi, because it uses three defensive traitlines to be a beast in duels.

Some condi builds however work great without Scrapper (although you can make them work with the Scrapper traitline). Soldier rifle still works, but I feel like it’s stronger taking Scrapper over Tools.

naphack.9346:

Elementalist: Celestial staff bunker is probably the best non-HoT build out there. D/D seems also viable, though slightly overshadowed by the ongoing power creep.

are you serious? SLIGHTLY overshadowed? I really loved D/D pre-hot but now it’s impossible to do anything because you have to get close and right into the range of all the kitten that is slightly too strong right now. 2 DH on the enemy team? Better don’t to onto any point where they are around. You are likely to run right into double trap placement and die instantly even though you took the defensive build.

as you said → staff bunker all the way. the only way to even stay alive in this meta.

Nanashi.6297:

naphack.9346:

Elementalist: Celestial staff bunker is probably the best non-HoT build out there. D/D seems also viable, though slightly overshadowed by the ongoing power creep.

are you serious? SLIGHTLY overshadowed? I really loved D/D pre-hot but now it’s impossible to do anything because you have to get close and right into the range of all the kitten that is slightly too strong right now. 2 DH on the enemy team? Better don’t to onto any point where they are around. You are likely to run right into double trap placement and die instantly even though you took the defensive build.

as you said -> staff bunker all the way. the only way to even stay alive in this meta.

Even then I feel like staff bunker gains a lot by going tempest, namesly invigorating torrents/soldier rune synergy with shouts to spam condi cleanse.

nearlight.3064:

Nanashi.6297:

naphack.9346:

Elementalist: Celestial staff bunker is probably the best non-HoT build out there. D/D seems also viable, though slightly overshadowed by the ongoing power creep.

are you serious? SLIGHTLY overshadowed? I really loved D/D pre-hot but now it’s impossible to do anything because you have to get close and right into the range of all the kitten that is slightly too strong right now. 2 DH on the enemy team? Better don’t to onto any point where they are around. You are likely to run right into double trap placement and die instantly even though you took the defensive build.

as you said -> staff bunker all the way. the only way to even stay alive in this meta.

Even then I feel like staff bunker gains a lot by going tempest, namesly invigorating torrents/soldier rune synergy with shouts to spam condi cleanse.

Nanashi.6297:

nearlight.3064:

Nanashi.6297:

naphack.9346:

Elementalist: Celestial staff bunker is probably the best non-HoT build out there. D/D seems also viable, though slightly overshadowed by the ongoing power creep.

are you serious? SLIGHTLY overshadowed? I really loved D/D pre-hot but now it’s impossible to do anything because you have to get close and right into the range of all the kitten that is slightly too strong right now. 2 DH on the enemy team? Better don’t to onto any point where they are around. You are likely to run right into double trap placement and die instantly even though you took the defensive build.

as you said -> staff bunker all the way. the only way to even stay alive in this meta.

Even then I feel like staff bunker gains a lot by going tempest, namesly invigorating torrents/soldier rune synergy with shouts to spam condi cleanse.

but d/d is just kitten right now. gets easily beaten in duels by the fotm classes and is more likely to die in a team fight due to its low range.

Thats true but unfortunate. Right now condi herald seems like the thing to play if you want to win each and every 1v1 without fail like d/d ele used to be able to.

The Chuck.
Notice the dual weapons and light armor.
But don’t be fooled.
Even as a beginner,you’ll lay waste to your foes and laugh casually over their virtual dead bodies.Elite specs just became obso(e)lete.

P.S I beat Chuck Norris with my Revenant.

This thread is a great idea and I hope people post meaningful feedback here.

How about extending the conversation on how heavy the gold sink is to get HoT builds? You can spend around 150 gold to unlock everything.

DeWolfe.2174:

How about extending the conversation on how heavy the gold sink is to get HoT builds? You can spend around 150 gold to unlock everything.

This is no whine thread.
I seriously hoped, there’s some build, I overlooked…
But as it stands, celestial staff ele is pretty much the only really good non-HoT build, which is a shame.
Bunker guard may have a slightly bigger impact when it works but it’s really inconsistent and folds instantly the second it gets touched by a condi reaper.

And about condi engi, I don’t see a condi engi outperforming a condi revenant in anything.

the state of the game is completely ridiculous, and it’s obvious they made elite classes better so that people succumb to buy HoT.

At least they could’ve been honest and say they’d be direct upgrades to regular classes I wouldn’t feel as betrayed tbh

And why do posts about class balance always get neglected? It’s not convenient for them to talk about this issue because they want to prolong this kittenty state and squeeze the juice out of it for as long as they can obviously. It’s been months and not a single word from devs about class balance? wow

They should be ashamed I lost all my respect for Anet after this. Let’s see what the next patch brings us. Until then, I’m done with this sad game

falkja.8059:

And why do posts about class balance always get neglected? It’s not convenient for them to talk about this issue because they want to prolong this kittenty state and squeeze the juice out of it for as long as they can obviously. It’s been months and not a single word from devs about class balance? wow

sadly this is so true…

The whole year was really kittenty for GW2. Not much new stuff between January and November. Information on the addon was really little. Then the addon releases and it is a mess. And still all I see from Arenanet are posts on E-sports. The crap they tried to pull with the bundles in the store don’t help this situation the slightest. WvW seems to be a big problem even after the new maps (or maybe even because of the new maps). Can’t say I’m thrilled to go there again. Well like there is any reason to. The last WvW season was over a year ago.

At this point I’m not even angry anymore. I’m just really disappointed how all of this turned out. Is this what I was waiting almost a year for?

falkja.8059:

the state of the game is completely ridiculous, and it’s obvious they made elite classes better so that people succumb to buy HoT.

At least they could’ve been honest and say they’d be direct upgrades to regular classes I wouldn’t feel as betrayed tbh

And why do posts about class balance always get neglected? It’s not convenient for them to talk about this issue because they want to prolong this kittenty state and squeeze the juice out of it for as long as they can obviously. It’s been months and not a single word from devs about class balance? wow

They should be ashamed I lost all my respect for Anet after this. Let’s see what the next patch brings us. Until then, I’m done with this sad game

You’ve hit the spot perfectly my friend. Years of the most beautiful relationship with players and then HoT drops. I was used to thinking that anet created the most consumer friendly perfectly balanced game.
I’m part of the rare few that can’t afford the expansion ( took me a month of hiding money for the original game) and I was under the naive impression that elite specs were just a way of giving classes new angles to build into.
I was wrong. I’ve been trying to find that one niche non-HoT build which can keep up with elite specs and upon reading this thread have lost all hope.
The truth is a non-HoT player has no business in trying spvp anymore. This is imo the worst thing that could’ve happened. All that beautiful fluctuation between meta builds we’ve had through the years is never going to break out of elite specs. Anet has restricted the entire scope of viable builds within HoT.
After loving the game for 1,5k+ hours i’m leaving.