[Vid] Mesmer comparison pre/post patch
The thing you seem to be not taking into account. (In your youtube comments aswell)
Mantras now recharge in the background, Now assuming you have the mantra trait and charge it at the start of the game it will be off cooldown when you start your first fight. That means over the next 35 seconds you will have 6 aoe instacast dazes. That’s without adding ontop of that, diversion and greatsword knockback. Potentially bringing your CC up to 8-10 across 35 seconds. If you run staff it has potential to go even higher. All of which can do a big amount of damage, give you a ton of boons and put a bunch of conditions out.
They have no counterplay because they’re instacast and they’re on such a low cooldown that you can often spam them to interrupt autoattacks and minor skills unintentionally just to get a ton of damage off due to traits.
The problem lies with the mantra and/or trait. You’re not punished for NOT interrupting. They need to do something like increased CD if you don’t interrupt (Similiar to ele RTL.) Maybe even go as far to put the skill on a full cooldown if you don’t inteerupt.
That way decent players can mantain their damage (Although i do personally think it’s too high) and bad players who spam won’t get the same rewards as skilled ones.
Edit: I mean watching your gameplay back, You basically cast it when it’s off cooldown and even into stability, mistform and downstate. Yet your not punished for that.
Smallscale <3 Vabbi
The Original Dudes [to]
(edited by x Charlie.4820)
You’re punished by not getting the interrupt and wasting a charge of your best mantra. It also puts CS on cd if I’m not mistaken because it tries to convert the failed daze into a stun. Could be wrong on this, only tested it for a while and it was still a little uncertain what exactly was happening and it was inconsistent.
Plenty of classes have instant or near instant skills, most of them are teleports to your target(thieves, guards), eles have updraft(which good eles can combine with Lightning Flash for a huge surprise), Warrs have the unblockable Fear Me, necros have instant cast fear in DS, Engis have overcharge shot as well as their healing turret which is almost impossible to interrupt unless you get really lucky. There are more, but the point is that instant interrupt or even just instant skills that are hard to punish exist across all classes.
That said, you know from the start if the mesmer is running mantras, you always know how many they have left, and multiple stacks of stability is the counterplay for that. I see a lot more eles picking Armor of Earth over Mist Form now because popping armor means that not only is the mesmer not gonna get their interrupts, but they probably won’t be able to burst you below 50% now either.
Edit: I mean watching your gameplay back, You basically cast it when it’s off cooldown and even into stability, mistform and downstate. Yet your not punished for that.
Yes the class has been buffed. Nothing inherently wrong with that.
Anyway on to your last point. The point of a CC skill is to execute that skills feature in so far as it goes. So when you use an Mantra of Daze you should expect to get your 1s daze out of it. If you time, or just so happen to land an interrupt, and have associated traits that benefit from that, then more power to you. But to assume that the sole purpose of MoD is to land an interrupt, and therefor be punished for not landing an interrupt is absurd. There are more reasons to use an MoD 1s daze than for the purpose of setting up a burst, or squeezing out a few more damage numbers.
Also “Casting into stability/mistform/downstate (though there’s various reasons for doing this last one…)” is more often than not a byproduct of the high velocity of gameplay and inability to capture everything that’s going on while reacting accordingly while also maintaining your life. Call it being countered, call it dumb luck, whatever the matter that’s a penalty (loss of resource) for my error. In otherwords, it’s never triggered without purpose, even if that purpose fails to produce fruit for whatever reason. That’s just being silly.
Anyway, mantras dropping CD behind charge was a big surprise to me. It’s a great QoL improvement, but perhaps could do with a review of CD times. Really though, the long channeled recharge time of a mantra is already a huge, glaring weakness just waiting to be taken advantage of. Go figure.
True, people started whining about mesmer damage being too high after the patch which is wrong, mesmer have had kittened dmg for more than year already, those kittens shouldve been nerfed long long time ago but before patch mesmers did melt to condis and thiefs so people didnt mind them. Now when mesmers arent on respawn constantly people are noticing their dmg.
Back when they buffed celestial amulet more than year ago mesmer started doing incredible dmg, i remember logging in 1v1 arena and even mesmers were laughing how ridiculous the dmg is, but then everyone started playing celestial classes and only zerks were thiefs who didnt have problems with mesmers, so noone cared that mesmers dmg being too high.
Bottom line is that we have this selfish community with mentality of “its not problem until its my problem”.
Been like that with every class, you can point out something broken but if the player who reads it doesnt experience that then he will say its l2p issue.
Mediguards were broken since ever but noone played them outside 1v1 arenas so they were fine, chill of death always was dumb and could oneshot zerks below 50% but noone cared until everyone started playing power necro.
So ye its same stuff with everything, not like anet would do something but you cant even point out broken stuff in this game till most of community experience it, otherwise they will just deny it.
I play the similar build before and after patch. my personal experience is not that I can kill faster, the biggest difference is that I can live longer because I can shatter on myself for diversion and confusion. Thieves are an even fight now.
i can´t watch this,…mesmer without using the F-skills hurt my eyes too much =/.
sry mate <3.
btw. i dont like the mantra-build. just spamming and channeling …it´s not much you can emprove =)
and tbh Mantra-SHATTER is much stronger and maybe too strong atm
(edited by Belze Intilie.8436)
In addition to things already mentioned, mesmer didn’t have blind spam or illusionary persona or extra bounce.
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i can´t watch this,…mesmer without using the F-skills hurt my eyes too much =/.
sry mate <3.
btw. i dont like the mantra-build. just spamming and channeling …it´s not much you can emprove =)
and tbh Mantra-SHATTER is much stronger and maybe too strong atm
Shattering pre changes was less fruitful outside of rare situations. It’s simple play to win.
Mantras now recharge in the background, Now assuming you have the mantra trait and charge it at the start of the game it will be off cooldown when you start your first fight. That means over the next 35 seconds you will have 6 aoe instacast dazes. That’s without adding ontop of that, diversion and greatsword knockback. Potentially bringing your CC up to 8-10 across 35 seconds. If you run staff it has potential to go even higher. All of which can do a big amount of damage, give you a ton of boons and put a bunch of conditions out.
They have no counterplay because they’re instacast and they’re on such a low cooldown that you can often spam them to interrupt autoattacks and minor skills unintentionally just to get a ton of damage off due to traits.
You said it.
I got so tired of hearing that Mantra spam-casting sound non-stop during a match. It was almost like sonic-torture!
So glad they fixed this, and gave it an appropriate cool down. I almost felt like I had to run mantras just to have an equal fight against other Mesmers who were just using them as an iWin button. I felt guilty using it though and just stopped. It was just so cheap.
Stunning someone down to 10% health isn’t what I consider an actual fight or challenge.