Guild Wars 2

Why does one of the of the tankiest base classes get a healing signet with no conditionals and base heals for more than other other class with the same cd?

riddle me that

/bottom hurt

It’s already been nerfed.
Poison them and it becomes close to useless.

It’s also one of the worst on-use heals there is, when poisoned it heals like 1.8k.

Still a bad excuse as thief’s signet of malice is 110/hit and ele’s signet is ~200 per cast. Guess what, their active heals suck too but HS is still better…

Zach.3264:

It’s already been nerfed.
Poison them and it becomes close to useless.

It’s also one of the worst on-use heals there is, when poisoned it heals like 1.8k.

Why not make it scale with adrenaline levels, and increase the instant heal?

Jekkt.6045:

Still a bad excuse as thief’s signet of malice is 110/hit and ele’s signet is ~200 per cast. Guess what, their active heals suck too but HS is still better…

Even worse considering those have ICD the same as the interval between HS ticks, warrior can run away or be stunned/dazed and still get 100% efficiency out of his healing signet.

Zepidel.5349:

Even worse considering those have ICD the same as the interval between HS ticks, warrior can run away or be stunned/dazed and still get 100% efficiency out of his healing signet.

Signet of Restoration and Signet of Malice have no ICD.

Slim.3024:

Zepidel.5349:

Even worse considering those have ICD the same as the interval between HS ticks, warrior can run away or be stunned/dazed and still get 100% efficiency out of his healing signet.

Signet of Restoration and Signet of Malice have no ICD.

ahh my bad

Zepidel.5349:

Why does one of the of the tankiest base classes get a healing signet with no conditionals and base heals for more than other other class with the same cd?

riddle me that

/bottom hurt

all classes have acsses to poison, you can esaily poison the war, at this point healing sig is usally even less effictive then regen boon.

and no you are wrong other heals can heal for much more, like the rangers healing spring, or necro when he consumes condis and so on.

basiclly just put poison on the war, its not hard at all, if you play 5v5 you can easily put 35+ seconds of poison on the war.

if you complain about 1v1 well maybe you luck the skill to poison the war when you need to, it is more then fair for the war to clean poison and for you to have to reapple it.

if you dont have poison and you want to 1v1 its gonna be much harder yet remmber that healing sig base is 377 with 300 put into healing pwr on war, you can land around 2000+ with no crits on power builds in a second and usally around 3500 with crits.

but then you may say that “i play condi” if you play a condi build you most likly have poison, war is durable he is not supposed to get burned by condis in a few seconds like some pepole want.

nemka.1803:

Zepidel.5349:

Why does one of the of the tankiest base classes get a healing signet with no conditionals and base heals for more than other other class with the same cd?

riddle me that

/bottom hurt

all classes have acsses to poison, you can esaily poison the war, at this point healing sig is usally even less effictive then regen boon.

and no you are wrong other heals can heal for much more, like the rangers healing spring, or necro when he consumes condis and so on.

basiclly just put poison on the war, its not hard at all, if you play 5v5 you can easily put 35+ seconds of poison on the war.

if you complain about 1v1 well maybe you luck the skill to poison the war when you need to, it is more then fair for the war to clean poison and for you to have to reapple it.

if you dont have poison and you want to 1v1 its gonna be much harder yet remmber that healing sig base is 377 with 300 put into healing pwr on war, you can land around 2000+ with no crits on power builds in a second and usally around 3500 with crits.

but then you may say that “i play condi” if you play a condi build you most likly have poison, war is durable he is not supposed to get burned by condis in a few seconds like some pepole want.

you can say “just poison them” to any class, a poisoned warrior is still gonna regen way more than any other class poisoned. You make it sound like only warriors can be poisoned, or like it effects them more.

the incredible base heal isn’t the only problem here either, its the fact that the heal has no conditional aspect, its good no matter what they are doing, mesmer signet heals pretty much the same with 3 illusions up, but theres no way you can have 100% uptime on that. Other classes have heal on hit, again its useless when disabled or running away.

Jekkt.6045:

Still a bad excuse as thief’s signet of malice is 110/hit and ele’s signet is ~200 per cast. Guess what, their active heals suck too but HS is still better…

Here’s the problem with that.
Warrior Signet heals constantly, yes there’s no denying it’s powerful.

Though, Elementalists also get several healing abilities on their weapon sets (every one).
Thieves also get stealth which gives them free time for their CD on heal to go down. Not only that, but in my opinion.. majority of Thieves run 30 points in Shadow Arts. Which cleanes conditions in stealth, procs regen AND heals passively in stealth.

I crafted my Thief to 80, I had maybe 8 hours playtime on it by the time I hit 80. I grabbed a full berserker set and went straight to WvW. Within 2 hours I had it nailed. Since then I’ve still barely died. They have plenty of escape and the survivbility stealth provides with 30 points in Shadow Arts is unreal.

So, in my opinion.. Warrior heal is fairly balanced.

Warriors are the most tankiest class who have the best passive heal. OH! and they have skills that cleanse all conditions on them as well as skills where conditions cannot be applied to them!

Warriors are fine. Learn to play.

Zach.3264:

Jekkt.6045:

Still a bad excuse as thief’s signet of malice is 110/hit and ele’s signet is ~200 per cast. Guess what, their active heals suck too but HS is still better…

Here’s the problem with that.
Warrior Signet heals constantly, yes there’s no denying it’s powerful.

Though, Elementalists also get several healing abilities on their weapon sets (every one).
Thieves also get stealth which gives them free time for their CD on heal to go down. Not only that, but in my opinion.. majority of Thieves run 30 points in Shadow Arts. Which cleanes conditions in stealth, procs regen AND heals passively in stealth.

I crafted my Thief to 80, I had maybe 8 hours playtime on it by the time I hit 80. I grabbed a full berserker set and went straight to WvW. Within 2 hours I had it nailed. Since then I’ve still barely died. They have plenty of escape and the survivbility stealth provides with 30 points in Shadow Arts is unreal.

So, in my opinion.. Warrior heal is fairly balanced.

Warrior heal is not balanced at all. It would be if the signet healed for 250/s. Warriors have reliable cleanses blocks and stances. In pvp nobody ever runs 30 in sa as stealth is completely useless…

When warriors are given stealth, teleports, protection, and perma regen without banners, then we can start talking about the healing signet passive.

Until then, just pray that ArenaNet has enough sensibility to give the healing signet a useful active. Once players are given a reason to use the signet active, that disables the passive healing. Problem solved.

ˆ .nope- i totaly disagree.

The passive is still too strong, and most of all, its a PASSIVE. its too easy to back off for or line of sight for 10seconds and regain half of the biggest and tankiest hp bar in game.

After that is fixed, i totaly support a reduced 3/4s cast and good effect active.

Healing signet works as the devs think it should work. Same as stealth, AI and condition spam in this game.
In my opinion HS should work as the mesmer signet. Gain health based on adrenaline level. Active part: refresh your weapon skills (only the one the warrior holds).
Warrior uses burst and loses passive healing (and warrior is always using burst skills).

Azure Prower.8701:

Warriors are the most tankiest class who have the best passive heal. OH! and they have skills that cleanse all conditions on them as well as skills where conditions cannot be applied to them!

Warriors are fine. Learn to play.

Wut dis?

hide spoiler

I have a level 80 warrior. I’d play him more for spvp if it weren’t for the fact it gets boring rotating through the same set of skills and not dying. Rolling my face against the keyboard would be more fun.

Stop playing hambow and go Greatsword then.

Healing Signet is fine

Warrior isn’t even close to the best pvp class anymore.. It’s the only class that literally has to facetank conditions because there is no way to avoid them on a point once berserkers stance is used up. The high base passive heal makes up for the lack of protection or any other kind of damage mitigation they lack. Such as clones, stealth, a Guardians massive number of utility skills on their weapon and skill bar that prevents taking damage, or an elementalists access to healing on virtually every weaponset, or a Necromancers deathsroud and their ability to fear you into a wall for what feels like an eternity, all while they boonstrip your stability and prevent you from being able to do anything about it while you eat their conditions. …Etc.

<—- Engi is that way

nemka.1803:

all classes have acsses to poison, you can esaily poison the war, at this point healing sig is usally even less effictive then regen boon.

and no you are wrong other heals can heal for much more, like the rangers healing spring, or necro when he consumes condis and so on.

basiclly just put poison on the war, its not hard at all, if you play 5v5 you can easily put 35+ seconds of poison on the war.

if you complain about 1v1 well maybe you luck the skill to poison the war when you need to, it is more then fair for the war to clean poison and for you to have to reapple it.

if you dont have poison and you want to 1v1 its gonna be much harder yet remmber that healing sig base is 377 with 300 put into healing pwr on war, you can land around 2000+ with no crits on power builds in a second and usally around 3500 with crits.

but then you may say that “i play condi” if you play a condi build you most likly have poison, war is durable he is not supposed to get burned by condis in a few seconds like some pepole want.

Quick comment on the “easy” counter of poison. Poison is only accessible without a sigil by 5 classes, of those 3 that don’t have it are Elemetalist, Guardian, and Warrior. Some would say Mesmer doesn’t truly have it since it is all on RNG procs with Chaos Storm. So that sticks 3 classes running builds that most the time won’t complement their builds being as that sticks you with Sigil of Doom for reliable poison, and that still is only 6s every 9/10s. So in reality, your all classes have access to poison is true, but should classes be forced to counter one class for 1 skill and get screwed by many others?

Healing Signet is still over tuned, and it won’t be fixed until one of three things happens, the health per a second starts scaling with Healing Power and has a base of like 100-150, thus making you have to invest for it. The static number gets cut down to somewhere between 250 and 300 or it gets set to be an adrenaline based heal. Personally I prefer the last, since it gives the warrior signet a more active use on healing. The mesmer has to actively keep clones up, the elementalist has to actively be attacking, the warrior has to just suck his thumbs. I want to see active skills, not passive, the AI spam is enough as is, why should players have a skill that they don’t even have to touch on the bar to get the best performance?

Heal sig is fine right now…can people stop complaining about it?
Btdubs this should be merged with the rest of the qq threads about healing signet.

Jekkt.6045:

Zach.3264:

Jekkt.6045:

Still a bad excuse as thief’s signet of malice is 110/hit and ele’s signet is ~200 per cast. Guess what, their active heals suck too but HS is still better…

Here’s the problem with that.
Warrior Signet heals constantly, yes there’s no denying it’s powerful.

Though, Elementalists also get several healing abilities on their weapon sets (every one).
Thieves also get stealth which gives them free time for their CD on heal to go down. Not only that, but in my opinion.. majority of Thieves run 30 points in Shadow Arts. Which cleanes conditions in stealth, procs regen AND heals passively in stealth.

I crafted my Thief to 80, I had maybe 8 hours playtime on it by the time I hit 80. I grabbed a full berserker set and went straight to WvW. Within 2 hours I had it nailed. Since then I’ve still barely died. They have plenty of escape and the survivbility stealth provides with 30 points in Shadow Arts is unreal.

So, in my opinion.. Warrior heal is fairly balanced.

Warrior heal is not balanced at all. It would be if the signet healed for 250/s. Warriors have reliable cleanses blocks and stances. In pvp nobody ever runs 30 in sa as stealth is completely useless…

Completely wrong.

It did had 250 hp/sec. No one took HS at all.

Useless =/= balanced.

This has been played out to death.

There are MULTIPLE ways for warriors to regen their health, stop blaming one freaking ability!

Regen boon, banner regen, adrenal health, life-on-hit or weapon swap sigils (maybe even runes?), and lastly healing signet which no warrior should ever use the active heal for.

Poison is not a counter to healing signet, because they have strong condi cleanse, and you just can’t keep it up all the time – as opposed to ‘burst’ heals, where you can time a few seconds of poison to reduce all healing income within even 30 seconds.

Ant.3415:

This has been played out to death.

There are MULTIPLE ways for warriors to regen their health, stop blaming one freaking ability!

Regen boon, banner regen, adrenal health, life-on-hit or weapon swap sigils (maybe even runes?), and lastly healing signet which no warrior should ever use the active heal for.

Perhaps there is one too many way for Warriors to Regen health.
21 is the right number in Blackjack. 22 is too much.

Zepidel.5349:

Why does one of the of the tankiest base classes get a healing signet

because 5khp and 3,1 % less dmg with 200 armor isnt that great to facetank every dmg.
gimme invisible skill, ports, protection and aegis and you are allowed to complain about heal sig

…..
srsly when i read dis " tankiest class" … its just redicilous because 200 armor are sooooo great and tanky even an berserk ele with protection is mor tanky than a soldier warrior

dominik.9721:

Zepidel.5349:

Why does one of the of the tankiest base classes get a healing signet

because 5khp and 3,1 % less dmg with 200 armor isnt that great to facetank every dmg.
gimme invisible skill, ports, protection and aegis and you are allowed to complain about heal sig

…..
srsly when i read dis " tankiest class" … its just redicilous because 200 armor are sooooo great and tanky even an berserk ele with protection is mor tanky than a soldier warrior

If 200 armor isnt great to you, then let’s remove it.
Healing Signet
Passive: +362 Heal per second, -200 Toughness
Active: same

in b4 double standard
+200 Armor isnt that great.
-200 Armor is omg too much nerf.

Turtle Dragon.9241:

dominik.9721:

Zepidel.5349:

Why does one of the of the tankiest base classes get a healing signet

because 5khp and 3,1 % less dmg with 200 armor isnt that great to facetank every dmg.
gimme invisible skill, ports, protection and aegis and you are allowed to complain about heal sig

…..
srsly when i read dis " tankiest class" … its just redicilous because 200 armor are sooooo great and tanky even an berserk ele with protection is mor tanky than a soldier warrior

If 200 armor isnt great to you, then let’s remove it.
Healing Signet
Passive: +362 Heal per second, -200 Toughness
Active: same

in b4 double standard
+200 Armor isnt that great.
-200 Armor is omg too much nerf.

No problem with that as long they give us protection…

Turtle Dragon.9241:

dominik.9721:

Zepidel.5349:

Why does one of the of the tankiest base classes get a healing signet

because 5khp and 3,1 % less dmg with 200 armor isnt that great to facetank every dmg.
gimme invisible skill, ports, protection and aegis and you are allowed to complain about heal sig

…..
srsly when i read dis " tankiest class" … its just redicilous because 200 armor are sooooo great and tanky even an berserk ele with protection is mor tanky than a soldier warrior

If 200 armor isnt great to you, then let’s remove it.
Healing Signet
Passive: +362 Heal per second, -200 Toughness
Active: same

in b4 double standard
+200 Armor isnt that great.
-200 Armor is omg too much nerf.

^ someone’s just trying too hard lol

silentnight warrior.2714:

Turtle Dragon.9241:

dominik.9721:

Zepidel.5349:

Why does one of the of the tankiest base classes get a healing signet

because 5khp and 3,1 % less dmg with 200 armor isnt that great to facetank every dmg.
gimme invisible skill, ports, protection and aegis and you are allowed to complain about heal sig

…..
srsly when i read dis " tankiest class" … its just redicilous because 200 armor are sooooo great and tanky even an berserk ele with protection is mor tanky than a soldier warrior

If 200 armor isnt great to you, then let’s remove it.
Healing Signet
Passive: +362 Heal per second, -200 Toughness
Active: same

in b4 double standard
+200 Armor isnt that great.
-200 Armor is omg too much nerf.

No problem with that as long they give us protection…

-200armor is like a 6% armor nerf to the typical warrior build in pvp(that’s less than what healing sig was nerfed for last patch). It’s not going to stop people from b*tching, and whining, and moaning about warriors (or their class of choice)—Because that’s the only thing this subforum knows how to do.

Bow was hit hard last patch and people still complain about it. Point taken.

Azure Prower.8701:

Warriors are the most tankiest class who have the best passive heal. OH! and they have skills that cleanse all conditions on them as well as skills where conditions cannot be applied to them!

Warriors are fine. Learn to play.

Wut dis?

hide spoiler

I have a level 80 warrior. I’d play him more for spvp if it weren’t for the fact it gets boring rotating through the same set of skills and not dying. Rolling my face against the keyboard would be more fun.

Guardians are far better in my opinion.

Dagins.5163:

Poison is not a counter to healing signet, because they have strong condi cleanse, and you just can’t keep it up all the time – as opposed to ‘burst’ heals, where you can time a few seconds of poison to reduce all healing income within even 30 seconds.

I wouldn’t say their condition cleanse is “strong”.
Yes, Cleansing Ire looks good on paper, but it only removes 3 conditions at a time(at full), can take time to build adrenaline AND has to land in order to take effect. (Besides longbow that is).

nemka.1803:

Zepidel.5349:

Why does one of the of the tankiest base classes get a healing signet with no conditionals and base heals for more than other other class with the same cd?

riddle me that

/bottom hurt

all classes have acsses to poison, you can esaily poison the war, at this point healing sig is usally even less effictive then regen boon.

and no you are wrong other heals can heal for much more, like the rangers healing spring, or necro when he consumes condis and so on.

basiclly just put poison on the war, its not hard at all, if you play 5v5 you can easily put 35+ seconds of poison on the war.

if you complain about 1v1 well maybe you luck the skill to poison the war when you need to, it is more then fair for the war to clean poison and for you to have to reapple it.

if you dont have poison and you want to 1v1 its gonna be much harder yet remmber that healing sig base is 377 with 300 put into healing pwr on war, you can land around 2000+ with no crits on power builds in a second and usally around 3500 with crits.

but then you may say that “i play condi” if you play a condi build you most likly have poison, war is durable he is not supposed to get burned by condis in a few seconds like some pepole want.

Mesmer, guardian, Warrior, Ele… Without a weapon swap right there half the classes now have no access to poison. (Mesmer only real access is possibly chaos storm but the duration is so short and its a random proc. So it’s not worth mentioning.)

So please don’t resort to hyperbole whne you say everyone has access to poison because there are half the classes that half little to none.

For those complaining about no stealth etc… its hardly as if warrior is a sitting duck, you have the longest duration invulnerability in the game, crazy stability uptime, and not to shabby condition removal. On top of highest tier base Armor and HP only comparable to necro.

It needs to to have a conditional… like every other class has. It’s stupid that its just a passive heal, makes it way to strong. It needs to scale with adrenaline. The only other heal that can even compare to it is a mesmer with a GM trait + tier 1 trait, for a triple mantra heal that removes 2 conditions each time… but that’s hardly comparable to a single slot.

War need something that is counterable….

mesmer you can kill the illusions/they get shattered etc… and their signet heal is reduced.
thief/ele it doesn’t work as long as they aren’t attacking
Necro is based on them getting hit
etc…

To have a passive heal that is that strong, and requires nothing from the warrior makes no sense.

Zepidel.5349:

For those complaining about no stealth etc… its hardly as if warrior is a sitting duck, you have the longest duration invulnerability in the game, crazy stability uptime, and not to shabby condition removal. On top of highest tier base Armor and HP only comparable to necro.

4 seconds is the longest invulnerability in the game? O_o
Guards can pull more time than that out of their hat.
Warrior can only afford to use one stability utility skill and they’re certainly not going to trait into it with the defense line. That’s not much stability at all. And then if you’re facing a necro, he’ll just boonstrip you and make you facetank the wall (via fear) while he spams you with conditions.

It needs to to have a conditional… like every other class has. It’s stupid that its just a passive heal, makes it way to strong. It needs to scale with adrenaline. The only other heal that can even compare to it is a mesmer with a GM trait + tier 1 trait, for a triple mantra heal that removes 2 conditions each time… but that’s hardly comparable to a single slot.

Like half the classes who have AI that do all the work for them…

Mesmers healsig may not be quite as storng (although it’s very easy to keep 3 illusions up with certain mesmer builds, and in that case, it is ever so slightly weaker than healsig) but it’s so difficult to target them when they have illusions flying every which way—which grants them a great deal of time to regenerate health, all while the warrior is tanking AOE condition circles.

mesmer you can kill the illusions/they get shattered etc… and their signet heal is reduced.
thief/ele it doesn’t work as long as they aren’t attacking
Necro is based on them getting hit
etc…

None of those classes play like a warrior. A guardian is the only comparable class to a warrior and they have so much access to damage mitigation and invulnerabilities that you can’t even hitthem half the time. Which makes up for their lack of HP. It’s also why they are leaps and bounds stronger than a warrior when both are wearing full zerker.

90% of the warriors I run into are hambow with last stand traited to activate on CC or w/e. And I’m pretty sure 4 seconds is the longest invuln in the game tied to 1 slot. As for the mesmer sig, ya It gets ran in certain setups… in others its absolute trash, warrior heal sig is good no matter what setup, and isn’t tied to anything.

Then they’re bad hambow warriors, if they’re taking last stand over Dogged March and CLeansing Ire. They’re only hurting themselves traiting last stand over Dogged March. Skyhammer may be the only exception.

The best and easiest fix for warrior heal signet is to make it scale with adrenaline, just like the mesmer heal scales with clones.

Even if it healed for 500 per second at max adrenaline, warriors would have to choose: do I want to burst to remove conditions, or do I want the extra healing? Should I try and sustain with my normal skills right now, or do I wanna put combustive shot on point?

It would add a lot of thought, as well as counterplay to warrior. And because of that, the active and passive could be reworked to potentially provide more healing, or maybe other effects.

infantrydiv.1620:

The best and easiest fix for warrior heal signet is to make it scale with adrenaline, just like the mesmer heal scales with clones.

Even if it healed for 500 per second at max adrenaline, warriors would have to choose: do I want to burst to remove conditions, or do I want the extra healing? Should I try and sustain with my normal skills right now, or do I wanna put combustive shot on point?

It would add a lot of thought, as well as counterplay to warrior. And because of that, the active and passive could be reworked to potentially provide more healing, or maybe other effects.

hmmm i dun mind a 500 health / second healing signet at level 3 adrenaline.

maybe

health per second
level 0 – 200 + 0.02 healing power
level 1 – 300 + 0.03 healing power
level 2 – 400 + 0.04 healing power
level 3 – 500 + 0.05 healing power

then perhaps the warrior haters complains will stop?
maybe signet of fury will have it use then, go full adrenaline before charging into battle for that extra health regen at max adrenaline.

Zach.3264:

It’s already been nerfed.
Poison them and it becomes close to useless.

It’s also one of the worst on-use heals there is, when poisoned it heals like 1.8k.

Ow please, less powerful mechanics have been nerfed far harsher for other professions. Also the whole “poison him” thing is not an argument.

HS is better against poison then most other heals.

If i get poisoned for that split second my cast heal triggers i get my full healing potential debuffed by 33%.
In order to debuff HS by 33% with poison you need to keep the Warrior permanently poisoned. Which given their excellent condition removal is never going to happen.

give war access to easy regen n protection n then feel free to nerf heal sig intill then kitten off , stop comparing skills 1 to 1 and start looking at the class as a whole thief sig might be worse then heal sig but im pretty sure wars cant perma stealth or evade so pls kitten off

Bogy.2953:

give war access to easy regen n protection n then feel free to nerf heal sig intill then kitten off , stop comparing skills 1 to 1 and start looking at the class as a whole thief sig might be worse then heal sig but im pretty sure wars cant perma stealth or evade so pls kitten off

regen is at best ~150 hp a sec, less than half of the warrior heal signet is. No class has anywhere near 100% prot up time. Warriors cant dodge? Revealed doesn’t exist?

So you want to keep Healing Signet as is, then lets look at changing Adrenal Health, That would do the same thing we are asking for from Healing signet, Maybe make it in to something that is like hey I got it, lets change it to Selfless Daring, you guys seem to want to be a guardian with a bigger health pool and it would work!

What we are asking is for a skill that has counter play, if it was based on adrenaline it would have counter-play and active play, it would just sit on a bar being a automated heal. Automated Response was nerfed becuase it was mindless and had limited to no counter-play, yes Engineers are still strong, but so are warriors. Outside of PvP you are still one of the strongest classes in the game and in PvP you really only had a damage reduction. Before you healed 392 now you heal 362. With one skill, add Adrenal Health and you gain an avg of 400 with no adrenaline and an avg of about 500. Mind you, yes part of that is on a 3 second tick, that is still insanely high. I don’t see why having Healing Signet attached to the adrenaline pool is a problem, and Deimos did a good looking start at it. Only other way I see to fix the skill is either lower the hard gain to 300-250 or stick it at 200-250 and stick a healing power scale with it.

Klocknov.8219:

What we are asking is for a skill that has counter play,

The counter play is forcing the warrior to use the healing signet active, which disables the passive healing.

The problem is that the healing signet active is currently 100% useless. The description should be changed to “When activated: Does Nothing” or “When activated: You Die” to be more accurate to reality.

If the passive wasn’t scaled so far through the roof, the active would be so kittenty. Blame ANet on this, not to mention the addition to Cleansing Ire made Adrenal Health a base on 75% of warrior builds. Take one or the other away and the warrior becomes potentially counterable, but having both of those as well as regen from other players or yourself depending on build it gets way over the top. Add in the chance that they choose to run Dolyak Runes that is more per a second and leave PvP and enter WvW you see warriors running one of two foods, you have condi dur foods or health regen foods. (Yes I know only stupid warriors will pick up the Dolyak runes, but 9 times out of ten when I see a war with Dolyak Signet they have Dolyak runes.)

So something needs to be looked at, and rather then nerfing a trait which hurts any build going that route I think it is easier to nerf the healing skill which has potential other options since that is a track-line trait. But honestly I would rather see the skill be based on adrenaline and the current adrenaline based heal be re-worked to be viable to play with. So take healing signet and do like Deimos said, and balance from there. If they get 500 for three bars that is fine with me, but it doesn’t make it always more effective to never press it. Not to mention doesn’t force multiple people to team up on a warrior just in hopes of them having to cast it, since you know you won the battle once he casts the skill, but getting the cast is 90% of the time an accidental thing.

Kagamiku.9731:

Then they’re bad hambow warriors, if they’re taking last stand over Dogged March and CLeansing Ire. They’re only hurting themselves traiting last stand over Dogged March. Skyhammer may be the only exception.

Actually, Last Stand is just as viable as Dogged March in almost every map for Hambow. With the amount of condition removal you have (Cleansing Ire, Signet of Stamina, and Bezerker’s Stance [not a condition remover, but a condition immunity]), you don’t really need Dogged March and instead can take Last Stand over it (unless you really want that 3 & 1/4 seconds of regeneration [much stronk!]).
By taking Last Stand you lengthen Balanced Stance from 8 & 3/4 seconds to 11 seconds and Bezerker’s Stance from 8 seconds to 10 seconds (if you’re traited for Leg Specialist over Great Fortitude).
Personally, I think it’s just as viable.

Syde.5961:

Kagamiku.9731:

Then they’re bad hambow warriors, if they’re taking last stand over Dogged March and CLeansing Ire. They’re only hurting themselves traiting last stand over Dogged March. Skyhammer may be the only exception.

Actually, Last Stand is just as viable as Dogged March in almost every map for Hambow. With the amount of condition removal you have (Cleansing Ire, Signet of Stamina, and Bezerker’s Stance [not a condition remover, but a condition immunity]), you don’t really need Dogged March and instead can take Last Stand over it (unless you really want that 3 & 1/4 seconds of regeneration [much stronk!]).
By taking Last Stand you lengthen Balanced Stance from 8 & 3/4 seconds to 11 seconds and Bezerker’s Stance from 8 seconds to 10 seconds (if you’re traited for Leg Specialist over Great Fortitude).
Personally, I think it’s just as viable.

The condition meta is so ridiculous that even with cleansing ire, signet of stamina and dogged march it is often times not enough. Because warriors cant really go melandru runes anymore due to lacking damage without strength runes, they need dogged march for the added help against conditions. And the regeneration procs quite often on dogged march and the heal you receive from it really does add up. On the other hand, Last Stand is an 8 second stability on a 90 second cooldown. Why would anyone take that over dogged march?

And you kind of lost me with your second point. How does traiting for last stand increase berserker and balanced stance up-time? The only trait that does that is sure-footed, which is also in the defense line. And it would be absurd to take that over Merciless hammer or Cleansing Ire.

Edit: Just realized you’re confused and thought Last Stand was Sure-footed. Well, neither are good choices over Dogged March, either way.

Some terrible ideas I have heard on this thread and why they are terrible:

1. Reduce the active to 250/hps: When the game launched it was 200/hps and was beond worthless. Basically you’re proposing that making it just 50 more hps than its launch level of healing would make it “balanced?” This would not only make the heal terrible but leave Warrior with no good healing skills.

2. Make the heal based on Adrenaline level: This would make the heal bad for the same reason Healing Surge is bad. It punishes you for using your class mechanic. Most halfway decent Warrior builds require frequent use of your adren in order to get rid of conditions. Making it based on adrenaline level would mean that it would force you to just sit on adrenaline if you want any healing…all while bleed, poison, and Burn kills you.

3. Statements about “invulnerability” being enough to make up for a nerf: Warrior does not have invulnerability. Stances keep Warriors from taking damage from one specific source. While Endure Pain is up you are vulnerable to conditions and Control. While Berserker’s Stance is up you are vulnerable to Power and Control. While Balanced Stance is up you are vulnerable to Power and Conditions. If you use all three at once you’re probably screwed anyways because you won’t be doing it again any time soon. The only blocks Warrior have access to come from the Shield ( seconds every 30), Counterblow on mace (either 1 attack or you must be traited and be blocking projectiles), and Riposte on offhand sword(same as Counterblow except it does block projectiles w/o the trait).

4. Something about Last Stand vs Dogged March: You DO realize that Last Stand is a MASTER trait and not a ADEPT trait yes? That means if you want to take it that means either ditching Cleansing Ire or going 30 in defense and giving up a GM trait. With Hambow you go 30 into Defense and give up a GM for the Merciless Hammer trait. Your whole conversation is confusing and shows that neither of you seem to get the trait placements.

5. Adrenal Health: Another trait that has its effectiveness dramatically over-exaggerated. First, it only triggers ever 3 seconds. Second, because most Warrior builds constantly use their adrenaline (for reasons listed above) you’ll only get an occasional max heal out of it.

BurrTheKing.8571:

4. Something about Last Stand vs Dogged March: You DO realize that Last Stand is a MASTER trait and not a ADEPT trait yes? That means if you want to take it that means either ditching Cleansing Ire or going 30 in defense and giving up a GM trait. With Hambow you go 30 into Defense and give up a GM for the Merciless Hammer trait. Your whole conversation is confusing and shows that neither of you seem to get the trait placements.

That’s true. Though warriors don’t take a GM trait in the defense line with hambow, they would have to sacrifice Cleansing Ire or Merciless hammer for Last Stand, because all three are in the master traitline.

I use Last Stand so infrequently, I just took the person s comment I replied to at face value, and assumed Last Stand was an adapt trait where it could even be picked up at all.

because the best sustain come from damage mitigation, not from healing nor base hp, do you even play games…even in D3 vitality stacking up fake toughness means nothing.

let’s say before healing signet buff, even with healing surge, warrior had best healing(not scaling to it’s hp base, but healing amount compare to other classes) and highest base hp and heavy armor, yet they sucked hard and ranger’s bird were better then warriors.

there are stuff(hambow) that makes warriors strong, but please stop posting non sense like this.

Jekkt.6045:

Zach.3264:

Jekkt.6045:

Still a bad excuse as thief’s signet of malice is 110/hit and ele’s signet is ~200 per cast. Guess what, their active heals suck too but HS is still better…

Here’s the problem with that.
Warrior Signet heals constantly, yes there’s no denying it’s powerful.

Though, Elementalists also get several healing abilities on their weapon sets (every one).
Thieves also get stealth which gives them free time for their CD on heal to go down. Not only that, but in my opinion.. majority of Thieves run 30 points in Shadow Arts. Which cleanes conditions in stealth, procs regen AND heals passively in stealth.

I crafted my Thief to 80, I had maybe 8 hours playtime on it by the time I hit 80. I grabbed a full berserker set and went straight to WvW. Within 2 hours I had it nailed. Since then I’ve still barely died. They have plenty of escape and the survivbility stealth provides with 30 points in Shadow Arts is unreal.

So, in my opinion.. Warrior heal is fairly balanced.

Warrior heal is not balanced at all. It would be if the signet healed for 250/s. Warriors have reliable cleanses blocks and stances. In pvp nobody ever runs 30 in sa as stealth is completely useless…

It would be Useless if it was 250/s. It was already nerfed. Poison on it gg.

Jekkt.6045:

Zach.3264:

Jekkt.6045:

Still a bad excuse as thief’s signet of malice is 110/hit and ele’s signet is ~200 per cast. Guess what, their active heals suck too but HS is still better…

Here’s the problem with that.
Warrior Signet heals constantly, yes there’s no denying it’s powerful.

Though, Elementalists also get several healing abilities on their weapon sets (every one).
Thieves also get stealth which gives them free time for their CD on heal to go down. Not only that, but in my opinion.. majority of Thieves run 30 points in Shadow Arts. Which cleanes conditions in stealth, procs regen AND heals passively in stealth.

I crafted my Thief to 80, I had maybe 8 hours playtime on it by the time I hit 80. I grabbed a full berserker set and went straight to WvW. Within 2 hours I had it nailed. Since then I’ve still barely died. They have plenty of escape and the survivbility stealth provides with 30 points in Shadow Arts is unreal.

So, in my opinion.. Warrior heal is fairly balanced.

Warrior heal is not balanced at all. It would be if the signet healed for 250/s. Warriors have reliable cleanses blocks and stances. In pvp nobody ever runs 30 in sa as stealth is completely useless…

nobody is running 30 sa in pvp, because it is conquest, in wvw where theres no time limit, nor points to capture but kill your enemy, 30 sa is one unkillable cheese.