Guild Wars 2

Adrenal Health
Gain health based on adrenaline spent.

• Health Gained per Adrenaline Bar Spent (15s): 2,475 (0.3)
• Maximum stacks: 3
• Interval: 1s

Notes

• A single full bar of adrenaline while in Berserk mode gives 3 stacks.
• The amount of healing generated per stack is reduced by 10% in PvP.

This was the nail in the coffin for Berserker specs. I understand that the spvp team does not handle class balances at this point but who does? Who should be reading this thread? Where should I be posting this stuff?

At any rate, this was too much of a nerf. Might want to consider downing the duration from 15s to 10s and increase the maximum stack from 3 to 6 or maybe even to 9. Also, this certainly doesn’t need a pvp penalty of 10%.

DH, Revenant, Scrapper, Druid, Tempest, Chrono and Reaper all have enormous sustain capability right now, even while running DPS specs. If we want Berserker and Daredevil to keep up, their heal sustain needs a bit of tweaking. That or the abundant sustain of other classes needs to be toned down.

im confused is this a new change? if so source?

It used to grant the health as burst heal. You could get 2 heals off a single duration of berserk “which was the equivalent of having a 6 stacks now” but even better because you didn’t have to wait 15s for the full heals.

There are more pros & cons to burst heal vs. regen heal but the important thing to note here is that 15s with a max stack of 3 intensity = 7500ish heal for no heal stat amulets. This sounds nice but with the way warriors have to play concerning attack phase/defense phase, it’s really important to be able to have that burst heal and a significant amount of it considering all other classes nowadays are DPS mega burst healers.

I mean really, when you look at the heal output of DHs, Heralds, Druids, Scrappers, Tempests and even Reapers “between heal, life steal and life force bar”, the sustain is far above and beyond what Berserker is capable of. Daredevil and Chrono you ask? These at least have UBER disengage methods. Berserker is just a very weak link sitting duck with the new way adrenal health works and it’s attack methods aren’t so hot either in higher tier play. In other words it’s high DPS attacks aren’t as practical to use as say a Reaper’s attacks “which are very difficult to avoid the DPS” so it isn’t even a fair trade off to lose sustain on a Berserker for some awesome DPS because you can’t catch anything with it in higher tier ^^

Something needs to be done about it. Berserker is 100% useless within the competitive scene as of now.

I don’t get the issue honestly. It stacks with healing signet like a boss and with Regen, even better with Soothing Mists if an Ele is present.

I play 100% zerker in PvP though with rage runes, so low health pool probably makes it appear more effective maybe.

Like, You say other classes have too much sustain. If you play zerker or marauder you would know they have 0 sustain. You can down a Necro in 2 skills on zerker Warrior, sometimes 3 or 4 if they have full life force. A volley with unblockable attacks against a guardian will almost kill them too.

I can give you a build to mess around with if you like? It produces 7k crits on Rush, 11k crits or higher on Volleys and more. It’s pure burst, so it requires 100% focus on 1 target. The best part is, it’s stacked with unblockable attacks, so guards defenses are useless.

For some reason though as a heads up: Unblockable attacks are still blocked by Endure Pain.

Trevor Boyer.6524:

I mean really, when you look at the heal output of DHs, Heralds, Druids, Scrappers, Tempests and even Reapers “between heal, life steal and life force bar”, the sustain is far above and beyond what Berserker is capable of. Daredevil and Chrono you ask? These at least have UBER disengage methods.

Did you look? because two of the classes you listed are running healing amulets. And one of them the entire build is 100% focused on healing every utility, every trait and they hit like a noodle. You want to heal as much as that with a zerk/viper equivalent?

The real issue isn’t buffing warrior to that level it’s bringing the others down.

OneKlicKill.4285:

Trevor Boyer.6524:

I mean really, when you look at the heal output of DHs, Heralds, Druids, Scrappers, Tempests and even Reapers “between heal, life steal and life force bar”, the sustain is far above and beyond what Berserker is capable of. Daredevil and Chrono you ask? These at least have UBER disengage methods.

Did you look? because two of the classes you listed are running healing amulets. And one of them the entire build is 100% focused on healing every utility, every trait and they hit like a noodle. You want to heal as much as that with a zerk/viper equivalent?

The real issue isn’t buffing warrior to that level it’s bringing the others down.

If you force the other on zerker/viper then it would be the warrior who has the biggest sustain…at the point we should nerf warrior sustain. Furthermore neither the druid and definitely not the ele hit as hard as a zerk amulet even if using the same amulet..while still having 1/5 of the sustain in that regard.

P.S saw the title and though somebody was finally starting a discussion about warrior sustain…instead wow..somebody asking for buffs on warrior sustain

0 healing power = 2.5k health every 6s 398 ( signet ) heal/sec = 4900 health every 6s on average, add possible rousing resilience 3k health every 10 1000 toughness and last stand trait 2.5 health/30s CD…….no class can heal that much with a zerker amulet..NO class except warrior

Supreme.3164:

OneKlicKill.4285:

Trevor Boyer.6524:

I mean really, when you look at the heal output of DHs, Heralds, Druids, Scrappers, Tempests and even Reapers “between heal, life steal and life force bar”, the sustain is far above and beyond what Berserker is capable of. Daredevil and Chrono you ask? These at least have UBER disengage methods.

Did you look? because two of the classes you listed are running healing amulets. And one of them the entire build is 100% focused on healing every utility, every trait and they hit like a noodle. You want to heal as much as that with a zerk/viper equivalent?

The real issue isn’t buffing warrior to that level it’s bringing the others down.

If you force the other on zerker/viper then it would be the warrior who has the biggest sustain…at the point we should nerf warrior sustain. Furthermore neither the druid and definitely not the ele hit as hard as a zerk amulet even if using the same amulet..while still having 1/5 of the sustain in that regard.

P.S saw the title and though somebody was finally starting a discussion about warrior sustain…instead wow..somebody asking for buffs on warrior sustain

0 healing power = 2.5k health every 6s 398 ( signet ) heal/sec = 4900 health every 6s on average, add possible rousing resilience 3k health every 10 1000 toughness and last stand trait 2.5 health/30s CD…….no class can heal that much with a zerker amulet..NO class except warrior

Ele hits harder if played right. But agreed, you throw away all your healing sustain just to rely on evades. It gets real fun fighting a thief with staff lol

On the other hand though in reference to Ele vs War sustain in zerker Amulet: Ele can trait for Aura spam heals on top of soothing Mists and permanent protection/vigor/regen and also have access to something called Stone Heart which completely screws every Power build over with 40% protection spam.

Supreme.3164:

OneKlicKill.4285:

Trevor Boyer.6524:

I mean really, when you look at the heal output of DHs, Heralds, Druids, Scrappers, Tempests and even Reapers “between heal, life steal and life force bar”, the sustain is far above and beyond what Berserker is capable of. Daredevil and Chrono you ask? These at least have UBER disengage methods.

Did you look? because two of the classes you listed are running healing amulets. And one of them the entire build is 100% focused on healing every utility, every trait and they hit like a noodle. You want to heal as much as that with a zerk/viper equivalent?

The real issue isn’t buffing warrior to that level it’s bringing the others down.

If you force the other on zerker/viper then it would be the warrior who has the biggest sustain…at the point we should nerf warrior sustain. Furthermore neither the druid and definitely not the ele hit as hard as a zerk amulet even if using the same amulet..while still having 1/5 of the sustain in that regard.

P.S saw the title and though somebody was finally starting a discussion about warrior sustain…instead wow..somebody asking for buffs on warrior sustain

0 healing power = 2.5k health every 6s 398 ( signet ) heal/sec = 4900 health every 6s on average, add possible rousing resilience 3k health every 10 1000 toughness and last stand trait 2.5 health/30s CD…….no class can heal that much with a zerker amulet..NO class except warrior

gaurdian can heal way more than that with a zerker amulet. sorry if i blew your argument apart with that. but its true.

sephiroth.4217:

Supreme.3164:

OneKlicKill.4285:

Trevor Boyer.6524:

I mean really, when you look at the heal output of DHs, Heralds, Druids, Scrappers, Tempests and even Reapers “between heal, life steal and life force bar”, the sustain is far above and beyond what Berserker is capable of. Daredevil and Chrono you ask? These at least have UBER disengage methods.

Did you look? because two of the classes you listed are running healing amulets. And one of them the entire build is 100% focused on healing every utility, every trait and they hit like a noodle. You want to heal as much as that with a zerk/viper equivalent?

The real issue isn’t buffing warrior to that level it’s bringing the others down.

If you force the other on zerker/viper then it would be the warrior who has the biggest sustain…at the point we should nerf warrior sustain. Furthermore neither the druid and definitely not the ele hit as hard as a zerk amulet even if using the same amulet..while still having 1/5 of the sustain in that regard.

P.S saw the title and though somebody was finally starting a discussion about warrior sustain…instead wow..somebody asking for buffs on warrior sustain

0 healing power = 2.5k health every 6s 398 ( signet ) heal/sec = 4900 health every 6s on average, add possible rousing resilience 3k health every 10 1000 toughness and last stand trait 2.5 health/30s CD…….no class can heal that much with a zerker amulet..NO class except warrior

Ele hits harder if played right. But agreed, you throw away all your healing sustain just to rely on evades. It gets real fun fighting a thief with staff lol

On the other hand though in reference to Ele vs War sustain in zerker Amulet: Ele can trait for Aura spam heals on top of soothing Mists and permanent protection/vigor/regen and also have access to something called Stone Heart which completely screws every Power build over with 40% protection spam.

So…an ele traited for dmg get eaten alive by a zerker war as he has more sustain, now the ele traited for healing has more sustain than zerker war..but deal no dmg..so the zerker war now asks to have the same sustain as the ele traited for healing..while keeping the zerker dmg…..kk

A good change would’ve been reducing the duration of the healing. 15 seconds is excessive and unnecessary. The healing provided did need a nerf too though, but with overall damage nerfs (like that’ll ever happen…), the nerf won’t feel so heavy.

Huh where were these changes stated?

Supreme.3164:

sephiroth.4217:

Supreme.3164:

OneKlicKill.4285:

Trevor Boyer.6524:

I mean really, when you look at the heal output of DHs, Heralds, Druids, Scrappers, Tempests and even Reapers “between heal, life steal and life force bar”, the sustain is far above and beyond what Berserker is capable of. Daredevil and Chrono you ask? These at least have UBER disengage methods.

Did you look? because two of the classes you listed are running healing amulets. And one of them the entire build is 100% focused on healing every utility, every trait and they hit like a noodle. You want to heal as much as that with a zerk/viper equivalent?

The real issue isn’t buffing warrior to that level it’s bringing the others down.

If you force the other on zerker/viper then it would be the warrior who has the biggest sustain…at the point we should nerf warrior sustain. Furthermore neither the druid and definitely not the ele hit as hard as a zerk amulet even if using the same amulet..while still having 1/5 of the sustain in that regard.

P.S saw the title and though somebody was finally starting a discussion about warrior sustain…instead wow..somebody asking for buffs on warrior sustain

0 healing power = 2.5k health every 6s 398 ( signet ) heal/sec = 4900 health every 6s on average, add possible rousing resilience 3k health every 10 1000 toughness and last stand trait 2.5 health/30s CD…….no class can heal that much with a zerker amulet..NO class except warrior

Ele hits harder if played right. But agreed, you throw away all your healing sustain just to rely on evades. It gets real fun fighting a thief with staff lol

On the other hand though in reference to Ele vs War sustain in zerker Amulet: Ele can trait for Aura spam heals on top of soothing Mists and permanent protection/vigor/regen and also have access to something called Stone Heart which completely screws every Power build over with 40% protection spam.

So…an ele traited for dmg get eaten alive by a zerker war as he has more sustain, now the ele traited for healing has more sustain than zerker war..but deal no dmg..so the zerker war now asks to have the same sustain as the ele traited for healing..while keeping the zerker dmg…..kk

What?

Zerker Ele eats Zerker War with a staff. Also eats Condi wars too. It just doesnt have a tonne of passives / heals to rely on. Gotta rely on Evade skills and dodges and positioning.

The two classes who hard counter the staff build I play is Rev and thief, those fights put me under a lot of pressure to not make a mistake if I wanna win and to have fast reflexes if they hit me first.

sephiroth.4217:

Supreme.3164:

sephiroth.4217:

Supreme.3164:

OneKlicKill.4285:

Trevor Boyer.6524:

I mean really, when you look at the heal output of DHs, Heralds, Druids, Scrappers, Tempests and even Reapers “between heal, life steal and life force bar”, the sustain is far above and beyond what Berserker is capable of. Daredevil and Chrono you ask? These at least have UBER disengage methods.

Did you look? because two of the classes you listed are running healing amulets. And one of them the entire build is 100% focused on healing every utility, every trait and they hit like a noodle. You want to heal as much as that with a zerk/viper equivalent?

The real issue isn’t buffing warrior to that level it’s bringing the others down.

If you force the other on zerker/viper then it would be the warrior who has the biggest sustain…at the point we should nerf warrior sustain. Furthermore neither the druid and definitely not the ele hit as hard as a zerk amulet even if using the same amulet..while still having 1/5 of the sustain in that regard.

P.S saw the title and though somebody was finally starting a discussion about warrior sustain…instead wow..somebody asking for buffs on warrior sustain

0 healing power = 2.5k health every 6s 398 ( signet ) heal/sec = 4900 health every 6s on average, add possible rousing resilience 3k health every 10 1000 toughness and last stand trait 2.5 health/30s CD…….no class can heal that much with a zerker amulet..NO class except warrior

Ele hits harder if played right. But agreed, you throw away all your healing sustain just to rely on evades. It gets real fun fighting a thief with staff lol

On the other hand though in reference to Ele vs War sustain in zerker Amulet: Ele can trait for Aura spam heals on top of soothing Mists and permanent protection/vigor/regen and also have access to something called Stone Heart which completely screws every Power build over with 40% protection spam.

So…an ele traited for dmg get eaten alive by a zerker war as he has more sustain, now the ele traited for healing has more sustain than zerker war..but deal no dmg..so the zerker war now asks to have the same sustain as the ele traited for healing..while keeping the zerker dmg…..kk

What?

Zerker Ele eats Zerker War with a staff. Also eats Condi wars too. It just doesnt have a tonne of passives / heals to rely on. Gotta rely on Evade skills and dodges and positioning.

The two classes who hard counter the staff build I play is Rev and thief, those fights put me under a lot of pressure to not make a mistake if I wanna win and to have fast reflexes if they hit me first.

Do you honestly believe that you’d beat any pvper with a zerker staff ele? And condi wars too?…oh boy ..this is too much cya

Adrenal Health should be a burst heal based on how many bars of adrenaline spent but only if the skill hits so the heal can be pretty significant. That way it is more skill based rather than just use the burst skill when its off cooldown to get regen.

What do you guys think? I’m not a warrior main so it would be nice to get feedback from people who are. This is just what I would do if I was given the chance.

Trevor Boyer.6524:

It used to grant the health as burst heal. You could get 2 heals off a single duration of berserk “which was the equivalent of having a 6 stacks now” but even better because you didn’t have to wait 15s for the full heals.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/index.php?title=Adrenal_Health&oldid=1184624

What are you talking about?

lol @ some of the responses in here, wow.

Supreme.3164:

sephiroth.4217:

Supreme.3164:

sephiroth.4217:

Supreme.3164:

OneKlicKill.4285:

Trevor Boyer.6524:

I mean really, when you look at the heal output of DHs, Heralds, Druids, Scrappers, Tempests and even Reapers “between heal, life steal and life force bar”, the sustain is far above and beyond what Berserker is capable of. Daredevil and Chrono you ask? These at least have UBER disengage methods.

Did you look? because two of the classes you listed are running healing amulets. And one of them the entire build is 100% focused on healing every utility, every trait and they hit like a noodle. You want to heal as much as that with a zerk/viper equivalent?

The real issue isn’t buffing warrior to that level it’s bringing the others down.

If you force the other on zerker/viper then it would be the warrior who has the biggest sustain…at the point we should nerf warrior sustain. Furthermore neither the druid and definitely not the ele hit as hard as a zerk amulet even if using the same amulet..while still having 1/5 of the sustain in that regard.

P.S saw the title and though somebody was finally starting a discussion about warrior sustain…instead wow..somebody asking for buffs on warrior sustain

0 healing power = 2.5k health every 6s 398 ( signet ) heal/sec = 4900 health every 6s on average, add possible rousing resilience 3k health every 10 1000 toughness and last stand trait 2.5 health/30s CD…….no class can heal that much with a zerker amulet..NO class except warrior

Ele hits harder if played right. But agreed, you throw away all your healing sustain just to rely on evades. It gets real fun fighting a thief with staff lol

On the other hand though in reference to Ele vs War sustain in zerker Amulet: Ele can trait for Aura spam heals on top of soothing Mists and permanent protection/vigor/regen and also have access to something called Stone Heart which completely screws every Power build over with 40% protection spam.

So…an ele traited for dmg get eaten alive by a zerker war as he has more sustain, now the ele traited for healing has more sustain than zerker war..but deal no dmg..so the zerker war now asks to have the same sustain as the ele traited for healing..while keeping the zerker dmg…..kk

What?

Zerker Ele eats Zerker War with a staff. Also eats Condi wars too. It just doesnt have a tonne of passives / heals to rely on. Gotta rely on Evade skills and dodges and positioning.

The two classes who hard counter the staff build I play is Rev and thief, those fights put me under a lot of pressure to not make a mistake if I wanna win and to have fast reflexes if they hit me first.

Do you honestly believe that you’d beat any pvper with a zerker staff ele? And condi wars too?…oh boy ..this is too much cya

from experience, yes, lots of times.

I’m still confused what you were trying to say when you first responded lol

But back to topic I don’t think Warrior needs any more sustain, it’s a class you can play zerker and facetank on, not an ele which requires timing on evades and kiting.

Look at the classes in the picture and you might see why I reference Ele to Warrior in this Warrior thread about Sustain buffs.

Trevor Boyer.6524:

Adrenal Health
Gain health based on adrenaline spent.

• Health Gained per Adrenaline Bar Spent (15s): 2,475 (0.3)
• Maximum stacks: 3
• Interval: 1s

Notes

• A single full bar of adrenaline while in Berserk mode gives 3 stacks.
• The amount of healing generated per stack is reduced by 10% in PvP.

This was the nail in the coffin for Berserker specs. I understand that the spvp team does not handle class balances at this point but who does? Who should be reading this thread? Where should I be posting this stuff?

At any rate, this was too much of a nerf. Might want to consider downing the duration from 15s to 10s and increase the maximum stack from 3 to 6 or maybe even to 9. Also, this certainly doesn’t need a pvp penalty of 10%.

DH, Revenant, Scrapper, Druid, Tempest, Chrono and Reaper all have enormous sustain capability right now, even while running DPS specs. If we want Berserker and Daredevil to keep up, their heal sustain needs a bit of tweaking. That or the abundant sustain of other classes needs to be toned down.

Berserkers sustain are strong enough. I think its more of a L2P issue here for you. You can watch players like Rom and Tarcis for some good warrior plays.

Someone complaining that a nerf to warrior’s passive regen is unfair? So this is what this game has become…

I dont know man. Peasant plebseth seems to like powerfull condi war in pvp. Drazeh lso owning ppl as a war.

I agree with the part of scrappers having high sustain, but having dps too?, scrappers take a while to make damage, you want to know wich is engi dps spec? condi engi, and warriors rekt that build so easily with their amount of resistance.

Urejt.5648:

I dont know man. Peasant plebseth seems to like powerfull condi war in pvp. Drazeh lso owning ppl as a war.

last i checked helseth kittening wrecked a warrior. the only class he couldnt beat was a engi. cuz op sustain. helseth and drazeh are both insane players. they can make any class good. this isnt saying warriors are bad. they are in a great spot atm imo. just really obvious any attack they do and easily dodged.

Lot of bold & hearty remarks in this thread.
Let me clear up a few things that I’ve found to be true concerning Berserker.
Let’s consider that every class is wearing marauder or serk
And don’t forget that Berserkers have to hit with bursts to be able to use AH:

• Dragonhunter heals far far more than Berserker and will win a node holding contest against the Berserker. A Dragonhunter can hold out on a node 1v2 because of block frequency and enormous burst healing to counter cooperative bursting. Dragonhunter DPS is everything that the Berserker’s is but it is much easier to land with the sheer amount of AoE spam, CC spam and teleports.
• Herald will beat Berserker in 1v1 node contestation. If both opponents are of equal higher tier skill, the Herald almost always wins. The Herald is potentially capable of far far more healing than the Berserker, far more DPS and far more mobility. Furthermore, the Herald is a party boon machine and it’s DPS is consistent, reliable and practical to use with all the teleports, superspeed, passive unblockables and general natural of physics provided. After one gets accustomed to using Herald, they will quickly see that it is the new Warrior and that Warrior is completely obsolete when standing next to Herald, in terms of job role.
• Druid, if he’s good, will always be able to kill a Berserker 1v1 node holding. For a Berserker, this match up isn’t about “killing the Druid” it’s about surviving on the node until someone can show up to assist. Of course we all know, this is generally how it goes against a Druid with any class in the current meta. Druids, while wearing marauder or serk, heal far far far more than Berserker and deal unavoidable DPS. It isn’t even “practical DPS” it’s flat out unavoidable. The Druid will damage you, he will heal more than you and he will win the node as long as he doesn’t create any gross errors.
• Scrapper heals a lot more than Berserker, though this is a match up that the Berserker should win 1v1 almost every time. Again however, Scrapper is capable of running practical specs capable of 1v2 node holding where as a Berserker cannot.
• Daredevil is arguably hard countered by a good Berserker. Reason why Daredevil still gets play however, is because it succeeds at a job role that the Berserker cannot touch.
  The Daredevil’s heal department is one of the only classes that is actually worse than the Berserker but that’s arguably ok considering the large amount of peel, mobility and ability to disappear and completely disengage combat.
• Reaper is definitely hard countered by any Berserker spec. In terms of direct sustain and heal factor, these two classes are on par with each other. Reapers survive only due to short lived shroud bursting and Berserkers only live due to short lived shield block and endure pain which are all pretty much the same thing “short lived negation of DPS”. These classes on the other hand, do not have good burst healing and are not capable of holding out 1v2 for very long at all. Both are very susceptible to focused team bursting. The only reason a Berserker counters Reaper is because of the single target CC train and short lived condi immunes.
• Tempest heals far far more than a Berserker and this isn’t even self heal, it’s party heal. The Berserker should always be able to beat the Tempest or at least pressure it enough to hold a node against it “if it’s a support Tempest”. The Berserker arguably counters current meta Tempests not in the way of killing it 1v1 but Berserker is capable of CCing it down long enough for the party to have a focused target opening on killing the Tempest together. Either way, anyone who says Berserker is healing more than a Tempest has no idea what they’re talking about. The Tempest can run practical support specs where as the Berserker cannot. The Berserker can run practical DPS specs where as the Tempest cannot. It’s a trade off indeed but the truth is that we see a lot of Tempests in ESL but no Berserkers at all.
• Chronomancer is the only other class aside from Daredevil, with worse healing than the Berserker but through sheer means of jankery alone, the Chronomancer will always win against the Berserker 1v1 for obvious reasons. In the end, Chronomancer has practical DPS that is easy to land where as a Berserker will struggle to land any of it’s important DPS on the Chronomancer at all. This will negate the Berserker’s healing on bursts and the Berserker can only immune to condis for so long.

The facts in a nutshell:

• Only 2 classes have worse healing than the Berserker and those are the two superior peeling classes with the best disengagement in the game.
• Berserker healing demands hitting with bursts. Which means there is no “peel & heal” there is only “stay and fight” to get that healing. <- Not good for conquest.
• Berserker DPS is difficult to land at times. Anyone who spars 1v1 against “good players” using other metas, will understand what I mean by this. DPS being difficult to land can often result in not being able to use Adrenal Health at all when you need it.
• Berserker has only 1 viable job role and that is peeling +1’ing, which Chronos and Daredevils do better. Berserker’s lack of burst heal, lack of AoE DPS, lack of party support splash booning currently make it an inadequate bruiser or otherwise team fight oriented spec.
• Berserker was not used by a single person in the last ESL.

Tell me again about how this is a “l2p issue” when the class sees no competitive placing.

So reaper has the sustain and heal of berserker? I must be doing something wrong

To the limit is a 9k heal + full endurance and without running heal ammy. Defiant stance is basically rev’s op heal and can be a full reset. Sig basically dishes out the average heal for other classes only every 15 secs or so + a 2k and condi immunity when needed.

Trevor Boyer.6524:

The facts in a nutshell:

• Only 2 classes have worse healing than the Berserker and those are the two superior peeling classes with the best disengagement in the game.
• Berserker healing demands hitting with bursts. Which means there is no “peel & heal” there is only “stay and fight” to get that healing. <- Not good for conquest.
• Berserker DPS is difficult to land at times. Anyone who spars 1v1 against “good players” using other metas, will understand what I mean by this. DPS being difficult to land can often result in not being able to use Adrenal Health at all when you need it.
• Berserker has only 1 viable job role and that is peeling +1’ing, which Chronos and Daredevils do better. Berserker’s lack of burst heal, lack of AoE DPS, lack of party support splash booning currently make it an inadequate bruiser or otherwise team fight oriented spec.
• Berserker was not used by a single person in the last ESL.

Tell me again about how this is a “l2p issue” when the class sees no competitive placing.

ESL is not the holy gospel of GW2 and represent merely the 1% of the whole game, it won’t be used ever as a meter of viability!

Accordingly to your logic we should buff sustain on scrappers, dragonhunters, thieves on top of warrior because the winning team didn’t have any of those

If we turn to the remaining 99% of the game we see almost zero eles in soloq while we see 2-3 dh on average, warriors, scrappers, thieves teams.

The ESL “lords” didn’t use warrior because it was not needed in their strategy not because the class is too weak to use get your facts straight!

https://www.reddit.com/r/gw2esports/comments/54xefi/meta_change_between_qualifier_and_wc/

by an ESL player

ESL team rely on high coordination between builds that doesn’t exist in other parts of the game, did you try to play a tempest in soloq as used in ESL?

https://www.reddit.com/r/gw2esports/comments/4xykgo/solo_queue_class_tier_list/

by the same ESL player

To say that warrior lacks sustain is completely heresy and out of touch with reality! As warrior you can pack dmg, sustain, mobility, dmg/condi immunity, mele/range, hug stability uptime all in the same build and with 0 healing power , tell me again how that’s possible on any profession!

Just suggest a single profession that can pack all that in a single build

You’re way more self-sufficient and balanced than many other profession that must rely on teammates to get the job done

Supreme, lol

• ESL is the meter of viability in this community. That’s why the large majority of the spvp community uses meta builds that were used in the ESL.
• I never said anything about buffing classes because they weren’t present on a winning team. I did however suggest that when a class is completely absent from competitive play entirely, that something is wrong with the balance. Get your facts straight and stop putting words in to my mouth.
• We don’t see many Ele/Tempests in ques? Do you even que matches in GW2?
• The first link you posted about “why ESL players don’t use Warrior”, literally stated that Warrior was pushed out of meta by Scrapper and was nearly useless, lol.
• The second link you posted is a very opinionated statement of where each class stands in terms of S tier, A tier, B tier. I’m not saying it’s right or wrong but that list has Reaper labeled as B tier even though every team runs one and Warrior labeled as A tier even though the class was completely absent in the last ESL.
• You made this statement to me: “ESL is not the holy gospel of GW2 and represent merely the 1% of the whole game, it won’t be used ever as a meter of viability!” and then proceeded to post me links to statements made by an ESL player to support the viability of your own statements, lol.
• You said Warrior packs dmg, sustain, mobility, dmg/condi immunity, melee/range, hug stability uptime, all in the same build with 0 healing power and asked me how that’s possible on any other profession? Without even discussing all of the classes that could be mad-libbed in to this answer, I’ll state simply one for you: Scrapper.
• Last but not least, you stated that as a Warrior, you are more self-sufficient and balanced than many other professions that must rely on teammates but in that 2nd link you posted to support your own opinion, that ESL player mentioned that a Warrior could be strong again with Tempest in the meta. Do you know what that suggests my friend? What is it that a Tempest does for the team? I don’t know about you but I’ve noticed that most of the classes in this meta don’t need to worry about supplemental healing to do their job correctly and stay competitive. In fact, Warrior was the only class that he stated could be strong again, alongside of a Tempest. Why wouldn’t he state that about other classes?

I believe you read what you want to read but the tier list cannot be denied and if that’s too opinionated, that makes your thread that much less credible as you’re not even close to play at that level

You keep making comparison in sustain between warrior and the rest…but the question remains : where is this other profession that offers same sustain as zerker war with the same amulet?

You mention scrappers…paladin amulet ; druids…mender amulet, tempest…again mender amulet, the only other profession with enough sustain with zerker amulet is revenant which is highly reliant on ele for condi clear respect to war that can literally 2 shot a necro..and where is this 6k crit from scrappers? where is it?..show it to us

Scrapper pushed warrior out of meta? Again you read what you want to read, a website showing as meta the list of builds used by the winning team is no source of credibility …except for the vocal minority after every esl tournament. : " blah blah blah, my profession was not in ESL so I must be buffed". One week before esl , the tempest was listed out of meta, then they putted it back in…what a joke

No other profession can equip zerker amulet and facetank dmg like a war, anymore help and the profession will really play itself, at this point I don’t know why you keep pushing with your thread

More buffs to warrior will turn it into an unstoppable monster that can be played by a 6 years old, hard to believe that devs will ever answer to your requests

Supreme.3164:

I believe you read what you want to read but the tier list cannot be denied and if that’s too opinionated, that makes your thread that much less credible as you’re not even close to play at that level

You keep making comparison in sustain between warrior and the rest…but the question remains : where is this other profession that offers same sustain as zerker war with the same amulet?

You mention scrappers…paladin amulet ; druids…mender amulet, tempest…again mender amulet, the only other profession with enough sustain with zerker amulet is revenant which is highly reliant on ele for condi clear respect to war that can literally 2 shot a necro..and where is this 6k crit from scrappers? where is it?..show it to us

Scrapper pushed warrior out of meta? Again you read what you want to read, a website showing as meta the list of builds used by the winning team is no source of credibility …except for the vocal minority after every esl tournament. : " blah blah blah, my profession was not in ESL so I must be buffed". One week before esl , the tempest was listed out of meta, then they putted it back in…what a joke

No other profession can equip zerker amulet and facetank dmg like a war, anymore help and the profession will really play itself, at this point I don’t know why you keep pushing with your thread

More buffs to warrior will turn it into an unstoppable monster that can be played by a 6 years old, hard to believe that devs will ever answer to your requests

guardian can equip a zerker amulet and facetank like a warrior. it doesnt even need to land hits. and saying he read what he wanted to read so did you. the difference is he acknowledged your points. the s a and b labels can be applied randomly and make the same amount of sense. ellie is top tier thief is top tier scrapper is bottom tier and druid is bottom tier. see how much sense that makes? im not saying warrior needs buffs. i swear i need a disclaimer. but other classes are so broken atm that warrior is pushed out of ESL lvls. i think its fine in regular que. dont nerf or buff. just ignore and go handle other classes. handling of those classes will bring it in line on its own.

Supreme, you’ve got to start reading posts before posting man.

I see this ESL argument being abused 24/7 by several groups of people to push buffs/nerfs in accordance with their own agenda: if your profession is not in ESL this month then we either nerf the profession in ESL or buff mine that wasn’t in ESL

Given that only 5 professions can be played by a team during a match, anet should nerf/buff every week to please the vocal minority.

Still all the questions remain unanswered and people will try to push their threads by nitpicking comments apart with hyperbole and fictitious scenarios

The question still is does any other profession have the same level of sustain/dmg/mobility of a warrior while wearing a zerker amulet?

You first tried with scrapper…but they use paladin amulet and while they have the sustain and mobility..they lack the same level of dmg and are more susceptible to condis

You then try with guards, if they have zerker they’ll have 11k HP, if they want sustain, they’ll use a single trap and at that point they won’t the dmg to outpressure the enemy and will eventually die quickly….furthermore guards still lack the mobility of warriors with passive 25% mov speed, not forgetting the ability to use GS for mobility

Should we put this in numbers , warrior score 8 in every subject where other score 5/6 in most subjects and 10 in a couple of them…here come the warrior saying how life is unfair with them……………

Other professions should be nerfed apparently, hold on a minute!
Others can’t have more sustain than a warrior when they invest in healing and the warrior doesn’t but at the same time they can’t have the same sustain of warriors if they use a zerker amulet…..urgh my head hurts.

I try again…you wear zerker amulet and warrior outsustain you…you wear healing amulet…warrior should outsustain you still….pure lunacy

Supreme.3164:

I see this ESL argument being abused 24/7 by several groups of people to push buffs/nerfs in accordance with their own agenda:

My friend, you are the only one who posted links to statements made by ESL players to support your claims, lol.

Furthermore, you need to read posts before posting responses. I specifically said: “consider all classes are using marauder or serk” before comparing Berserker to the other classes and what I said was true about Scrapper/DH easily out healing Berserker, even while wearing marauder/serk. They also have just as much DPS as the Berserker while doing so.

If you disagree with this, I suggest you lay off the foreign substances, head to your local crew’s custom arena and learn a few things about the current meta.

~ Cheers

Drop your weapons bro! No need to be that salty.

The problem here on this forum is that people never specify what kind of buff/nerf they’re proposing.

You see…?! Warrior is the prince of passive sustain where scrapper is the king, any more sustain buffs and classes will start playing themselves in this game, if you’re looking for buffs then they must be active oriented this to prevent bad players to perform even more than they should.

Passive sustain greatly facilitate players reducing the overall skill requirement of a class, between the signet-adrenaline health-rousing resilience-thick skin-spiked armor-rousing resilience-dead or alive….the warrior has become a blunders proof profession

Very easy introduction profession that requires little thinking respect to others at the same level, a hack and slash class where all you need to worry about is attack, now don’t go once again playing the strawman picking comments apart for your own convenience…everybody know what I mean

If you would propose to greatly reduce the passive on all classes while increasing their active sustain and overall skill level of the game..then you’d have my vote..but proposing to nerf passive sustain on others while buffin yours, it’s not my definition of “unbiased” proposal

I’d love a game where people actually pay for their mistakes and get rewarded for their effort…but alas this is not that game.
Some professions will deal dmg with far less effort than others, some other professions will stay alive far easier than others when putting the same level of effort, when you’re the one chasing..you are the one putting less effort to do dmg and at the same time you can afford to take way too many hits before worrying to use the dodge buttons..that’s warrior in a nutshell, buffing the passive sustain of this class would break the game even further

Now as I’m tired of this charade I will let this be my last post in this thread , I leave knowing the fact that you can’t answer my question : can any profession other than warrior use a zerker amulet and still have the same level of sustain/dmg/mobility?

Your last attempts : scrapper and guardian, both with zerker amulet will have less sustain/mobility and less dmg given how easy is to kite/negate their dmg entirely respect to a warrior who will use endure pain/berseker stance and simply ignore all the CC/dmg throwed at him, then going blockmode/runmode with gs, passive sustain galore and then try to burst again when CD are off

The endure pain/berseker stance combo is literally a god mode lasting 10s with 50s downtime during which you can kite/block to your heart content as you’re being supported by tremendous passive sustain unavailable to other professions

Oh did I mention how a warrior can literally achieve passive 1400 toughness?

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Thick_Skin
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Spiked_Armor
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Rousing_Resilience

What exactly is zerker amulet on war? It’s a generalization, an idea because we all know that warrior is a kittening tank with zerker dmg regardless of the amulet
I don’t think the devs can further buff the warrior without becoming the laughing stock of the entire developer community

Warrior is a far above average class. Just because it isn’t used in ESL, maybe because it isn’t godlike, maybe because it simply doesn’t match their team composition and tactics as good does by far not mean that he is dead or needs any kind of buff.
Warrior is a very solid class whose whole package is clearly by far the strongest amongst all classes in any gamemode and giving him any further buffs would boost him from far above average to godmode. Or do you want a meta with 4 warriors 24/7 spamming immunities on every team?
The thing about warrior is that he is simply too good of an all-rounder. And on the top level with all specialised and perfected roles there is no place for an all-rounder. (besides old Cele Ele…) Sure scrapper may be more tanky but he is clearly weaker in terms of damage. This can easily be combined with other classes in ESL because they know exactly what they are doing but neither does it mean warrior needs a sustain buff nor does it mean scrapper needs a damage buff for them to be on par because it would completely kitten up lower rank play. Also why do you keep talking about guards? Besides the fact that they aren’t even used in your glorious ESL if you are telling me a guard on zerker has the same sustain as a warrior on zerker I really can’t take you serious anymore.

Supreme.3164:

The endure pain/berseker stance combo is literally a god mode lasting 10s with 50s downtime during which you can kite/block to your heart content as you’re being supported by tremendous passive sustain unavailable to other professions

ive gotta stop you right there. assuming other professions doesnt have equally op passives or more op passives than a warrior is complete crap.

Back to the point.

Berserker needs a viable burst heal method again so that it can survive focused bursting.
Putting Adrenal Health back to the way it was “as a burst heal”, would solve much.

The problem here is that adrenal health requires that 15s to take full effect when realistically, while being focused down, you need to heal “now” not in 15s.

So we are looking at this:

• 8 total seconds of endure pain – in 60s of a team fight
• 9 total seconds of serk stance – in 60s of a team fight
• 9 total seconds of shield block – in 60s of a team fight
  It’s truly not enough time to cover regeneration effect use as a main heal system. Against better opponents, the focus vs. the Berserker quickly renders a large margin of skill down time to focus the Berserker easily. Because he has no burst heal or powerful disengagement to cover that down time in the way that other classes do, he gets killed easily during this time.

Some would say “use defiant stance” as if it would function the same on a Berserker as Facet of Light/Infuse Light does on a Herald. Let’s not forget that Facet of Light/Infuse Light is basically Healing Signet and Defiant Stance combined. Let’s compare these skills:

Berserker must choose between:

Healing Signet
 Healing: 3,275 (0.5)?
  Healing Signet: 382 (0.05)? Heal
  Resistance (6s): Conditions currently on you are ineffective; stacks duration.
  Interval: 1s

Defiant Stance
 Healing: 1,853 (0.4)?
  Defiant Stance (3s): All incoming attacks heal you.

A Herald simply benefits both effects in one skill. In fact, Facet of Light is Healing Signet for the entire party.

Facet of Light
  Facet of Light: Pulse regeneration to nearby allies every few seconds.
  Regen (3s): 390 Heal
  Number of Targets: 5
  Interval: 3s
  Radius: 600
Infuse Light
Consume facet of light to heal yourself and invert all incoming strikes to healing.
  Healing: 1,853 (1.0)?
  Infuse Light (3s): Inverts all incoming damage to healing.

So you can see that choosing Defiant Stance is not an option on a Berserker because it is a gamble to use and he must sacrifice the reliable heal for it. The only reason Heralds have success with Infuse Light is because it’s a bonus in addition to Facet of Light’s effect. A Herald gets both effects where the Berserker must choose one. In other words, Healing Signet is still the best heal option for the Berserker.

And again, we could also compare the difference between practical skills that work more often than not and impractical skills that are difficult to use reliably in spvp. No reason to get too deep in this particular post other than stating that Adrenal Health is not a practical or reliable heal. Many things put a halt to AH’s effect:

• Blinds
• Dodge rolls
• Evades
• Being immobilized
• Blocking
• Stealthing
• Ect.. ect.. ect.. Pretty much any circumstance that equates to the Berserker NOT standing directly next to an opponent with a clear shot to land it’s burst.

You’d think with those parameters & stipulations of use, the trait would be more rewarding than it is, considering AH is a mandatory method of sustain for Warrior/Berserker and not to mention the “heal to full” burst healing that most other classes can perform nowadays, while being off in a corner by themselves with 100% reliable heal skills.

Meanwhile thiefs….

Ivantreil.3092:

Meanwhile thiefs….

That’s funniest part of this whole argument. There are classes that are legitimately hurting and not pushed out of the meta just because something else is too strong.

Warriors are fine and need nothing.

Trevor Boyer.6524:

Some would say “use defiant stance” as if it would function the same on a Berserker as Facet of Light/Infuse Light does on a Herald. Let’s not forget that Facet of Light/Infuse Light is basically Healing Signet and Defiant Stance combined.

While I do agree on Facet/Infuse Light being better than Defiant Stance, this statement is far from true.
Facet of Light provides the basic regeneration boon, which at zero healing power heals for about 1/3rd of what Healing Signet does. It doesn’t overlap either with other regeneration sources like those from druids and eles.

Vargamonth.2047:

Trevor Boyer.6524:

Some would say “use defiant stance” as if it would function the same on a Berserker as Facet of Light/Infuse Light does on a Herald. Let’s not forget that Facet of Light/Infuse Light is basically Healing Signet and Defiant Stance combined.

While I do agree on Facet/Infuse Light being better than Defiant Stance, this statement is far from true.
Facet of Light provides the basic regeneration boon, which at zero healing power heals for about 1/3rd of what Healing Signet does. It doesn’t overlap either with other regeneration sources like those from druids and eles.

the regen part actually heals for more than healing signet does per tick. according to his post i havnt fact checked it myself.

sophiewhite.3149:

Vargamonth.2047:

Trevor Boyer.6524:

Some would say “use defiant stance” as if it would function the same on a Berserker as Facet of Light/Infuse Light does on a Herald. Let’s not forget that Facet of Light/Infuse Light is basically Healing Signet and Defiant Stance combined.

While I do agree on Facet/Infuse Light being better than Defiant Stance, this statement is far from true.
Facet of Light provides the basic regeneration boon, which at zero healing power heals for about 1/3rd of what Healing Signet does. It doesn’t overlap either with other regeneration sources like those from druids and eles.

the regen part actually heals for more than healing signet does per tick. according to his post i havnt fact checked it myself.

Healing Signet heals for 382 every second, while Facet of Light applies 3 seconds of regen every 3 seconds, which heal for 390 over those 3 seconds (for 130 HP/second).

Vargamonth.2047:

sophiewhite.3149:

Vargamonth.2047:

Trevor Boyer.6524:

Some would say “use defiant stance” as if it would function the same on a Berserker as Facet of Light/Infuse Light does on a Herald. Let’s not forget that Facet of Light/Infuse Light is basically Healing Signet and Defiant Stance combined.

While I do agree on Facet/Infuse Light being better than Defiant Stance, this statement is far from true.
Facet of Light provides the basic regeneration boon, which at zero healing power heals for about 1/3rd of what Healing Signet does. It doesn’t overlap either with other regeneration sources like those from druids and eles.

the regen part actually heals for more than healing signet does per tick. according to his post i havnt fact checked it myself.

Healing Signet heals for 382 every second, while Facet of Light applies 3 seconds of regen every 3 seconds, which heal for 390 over those 3 seconds (for 130 HP/second).

oh ok my bad. either way you dont really notice either when fighting people. only good when your not fighting but still stuck in combat.