Guild Wars 2

Hello everyone,

just an interesting thought which came to my mind:

Is the warrior the new D/D bunker ele?

I’m not talking about the nerfed one. The pre-nerf(s) build which had everything, damage, sustain, tankiness and mobility. I’ve seen and played against quite a few warriors (far from pro level but still decent), watched a lot of videos and checked multiple threads.

So far everything the warriors offers seems to be as good as the old ele build. The only difference is that it’s even easier to play.

I know warriors always have been popular (and pretty much god tier) in PvE and WvW but with the last buffs it’s the same thing for PvP. You see them everywhere. Some might say people just like the playstyle or the look but I’m sure it’s different now. Warriors simply are too strong. Not only in PvP but every part of the game.

Here is what I would like to see:

• a) Nerf warriors to match other professions.
• b) Buff other professions to match warriors.

Honestly, it’s really annoying that I had to reroll to a warrior(/guardian) for PvE and WvW. Since it’s the same for PvP now I don’t think there is a single reason to play anything besides that one profession.

What did you guys do? Still play your favorite profession or reroll to maximize your effectiveness?

Do you think warriors should be nerfed or should other professions be buffed? Or is the game balanced now?

Warrior is not the old D\D ele because even the OP ele had to press dozens of buttons but the current warrior only uses 3 .

a t s e.9614:

Warrior is not the old D\D ele because even the OP ele had to press dozens of buttons but the current warrior only uses 3 .

^

and not only that, the old D/D ele would be ashamed of today’s warrior, old D/D today would be balanced among all the other OP stuff in the game.

Warrior has counters, D/D did not.

i never encountered the whole d/d thing, nobody ever ran it on eu. s/d clerics was all the rage on eu, but that didn’t really have damage. It had enough damage to kill very slowly.

The d/d they are talking about would (at that point ) drop to a haste thief or a thief/mesm burst combo so fast..
It was a very good build with great team support with healing and auras and 1vs1 potential so it was used at far point too.
But an hgh engi would destroy it 1vs1 and it was unable to contest against bunkers.
D/d was never that op..It didnt even exist in Eu and a handufll of classes were able to defeat it..actually it was more like force it to run away since rtl was a bit out of control at 15 sec
But then they gutted its mobility ,healing coefficients ,destroyed the auras spec with the icd,destroyed the healing signet,reduced its damage with the nerf of water traits and severely damaged its condition removal with that icd of 5 sec on cleansing water when hgh engi already beat the kitten out of d/d .
Actually symbolic you were there, commenting on how great those changes for the game would be on the sotg :P
I hope something similar happens to warr too

ya im just saying d/d was never ran on eu since everybody ran thief/mes/sd clerics /hgh. Fact is cantrips/bunker ele would still be viable if everything wasn’t so op right now.

i’d rather it be shaved. power creep is just really bad.

also at least D/D ele takes skill.

Larynx.2453:

Warrior has counters, D/D did not.

D/D eles were countered by trap rangers. In a bunker vs bunker situation the engi would also win the cap point by having much more CC.

Warrior is just D/D ele´s megazoid.
More damage, more survivability, more CC, more healing, more cleansing…..
Old D/D would not be a match to todays warriors in opness…..

with healsignet it doesnt matter how a warrior use his traits – always viable (often OP)

there was never something like this before

a t s e.9614:

Warrior is not the old D\D ele because even the OP ele had to press dozens of buttons but the current warrior only uses 3 .

Can you tell me those buttons?

i specced into d/p thief and play with warrrios… can’t beat them, join them -_-

ppl can defend warriors all the want, but daily practice just shows how stupid easy and effective they are compared to other classes; they really need to change warriors where they have same trade off as other classes:
- you go for dmg? you lose some survival or CCs etc.
- you go bunker? you lose dmg
- you go more moblity? you lose dmg

etc.

Cynz.9437:

i specced into d/p thief and play with warrrios… can’t beat them, join them -_-

ppl can defend warriors all the want, but daily practice just shows how stupid easy and effective they are compared to other classes; they really need to change warriors where they have same trade off as other classes:
- you go for dmg? you lose some survival or CCs etc.
- you go bunker? you lose dmg
- you go more moblity? you lose dmg

etc.

I can understand that if they do that to all classes. Right now i´m thinking about other classes that can go full zerker and have very good surviability.

silentnight warrior.2714:

Cynz.9437:

i specced into d/p thief and play with warrrios… can’t beat them, join them -_-

ppl can defend warriors all the want, but daily practice just shows how stupid easy and effective they are compared to other classes; they really need to change warriors where they have same trade off as other classes:
- you go for dmg? you lose some survival or CCs etc.
- you go bunker? you lose dmg
- you go more moblity? you lose dmg

etc.

I can understand that if they do that to all classes. Right now i´m thinking about other classes that can go full zerker and have very good surviability.

depends on class.. but the trade off needs to be in game or none at all; because some classes have huge trade off and other don’t at all; the problem with warriors is that they are waaaaay too effective in comparison

it is not healthy to for a game have such differences between classes, it will just end up in everyone rolling fotm, getting bored of it and quit game; surely they could roll something else but getting rolled by fotm they would eventually just get frustrated and quit

that is what happend to wow pvp over the course of time, the developers payed little attention to what is going on on arena, there were HUGE difference between classes so in some seasons you would come into arena and see literary every team have a warrior (mind you arena there is 3v3) so many just rerolled warrior or quit; ppl who reolled warrior got bored and quit -> arena population became reallly small compared to previous expansions

it saddens me that anet hit that warrior affection as well; i really hope something will be done soon

Cynz.9437:

silentnight warrior.2714:

Cynz.9437:

i specced into d/p thief and play with warrrios… can’t beat them, join them -_-

ppl can defend warriors all the want, but daily practice just shows how stupid easy and effective they are compared to other classes; they really need to change warriors where they have same trade off as other classes:
- you go for dmg? you lose some survival or CCs etc.
- you go bunker? you lose dmg
- you go more moblity? you lose dmg

etc.

I can understand that if they do that to all classes. Right now i´m thinking about other classes that can go full zerker and have very good surviability.

depends on class.. but the trade off needs to be in game or none at all; because some classes have huge trade off and other don’t at all

it is not healthy to for a game have such differences between classes, it wil just end up in everyone rolling fotm, getting bored of it and quit game; surely they could roll something else but getting rolled by fotm they would eventually just get frustrated and quit

I agree with you. All classes speced to bunker should deal less damage. All classes speced to burst should have way less surviability.
But even then should be some diferences in the way classes manage that because the gameplay is totaly diferent from class to class in gw2.

silentnight warrior.2714:

Cynz.9437:

silentnight warrior.2714:

Cynz.9437:

i specced into d/p thief and play with warrrios… can’t beat them, join them -_-

ppl can defend warriors all the want, but daily practice just shows how stupid easy and effective they are compared to other classes; they really need to change warriors where they have same trade off as other classes:
- you go for dmg? you lose some survival or CCs etc.
- you go bunker? you lose dmg
- you go more moblity? you lose dmg

etc.

I can understand that if they do that to all classes. Right now i´m thinking about other classes that can go full zerker and have very good surviability.

depends on class.. but the trade off needs to be in game or none at all; because some classes have huge trade off and other don’t at all

it is not healthy to for a game have such differences between classes, it wil just end up in everyone rolling fotm, getting bored of it and quit game; surely they could roll something else but getting rolled by fotm they would eventually just get frustrated and quit

I agree with you. All classes speced to bunker should deal less damage. All classes speced to burst should have way less surviability.
But even then should be some diferences in the way classes manage that because the gameplay is totaly diferent from class to class in gw2.

yeah i agree

i can bring a thief as an example as i play it a lot (but surely not saying they are absolutely fine, lol s/d): if let’s say thief decidedes to invest into survival it is usually involves stealth or dodge in some kind; if thief decided to trait more into dmg it is usually involves some kind of active aggressive moves/dmg like steal, crits etc. but it doesn’t give them extra survivability for example (outside of trait that converts 5% crit into vitality which is roughly 1k HP extra but really not a game breaker)

i think it can be done that classes have to trade off dmg for survival or survival for dmg etc. and still stay in “style” of the class

The current warrior is way better than the old d/d ele, although power creep on other professions prevents ten warrior matches from happening most solo/team queues.

NevirSayDie.6235:

The current warrior is way better than the old d/d ele, although power creep on other professions prevents ten warrior matches from happening most solo/team queues.

There are lot of classes that need some balancing. If the power creep continues this way it will be impossible to nerf any class some day.

silentnight warrior.2714:

NevirSayDie.6235:

The current warrior is way better than the old d/d ele, although power creep on other professions prevents ten warrior matches from happening most solo/team queues.

There are lot of classes that need some balancing. If the power creep continues this way it will be impossible to nerf any class some day.

Don’t get me wrong, warrior is the best profession in the game, period. I don’t think anyone can seriously argue against that. But other professions have gotten somewhat better as well; the current warrior vs. builds from last winter would be even more absurd than balance is now.

Romek.4201:

with healsignet it doesnt matter how a warrior use his traits – always viable (often OP)

there was never something like this before

Have you even played war? Healing signet alone is crap. Without the right traits you are a free kill. I have only found about two viable builds with traits that keep me alive. The rest of them are fail and and easily countered. Hambow is really the only good weap choice as well. Hammer is clunky and to slow alone.

People QQ about healing sig and then QQ about only pressing 3 buttons (in reality, a good warrior uses their utilities as well as their 2nd weapon which involves more than 3 buttons). If you want 3 buttons, go play a S/D thief because literally all you do is his 2, 3, v, 3, v, heal, v, 3, 2, 3. (v = dodge, obviously)

NevirSayDie.6235:

silentnight warrior.2714:

NevirSayDie.6235:

The current warrior is way better than the old d/d ele, although power creep on other professions prevents ten warrior matches from happening most solo/team queues.

There are lot of classes that need some balancing. If the power creep continues this way it will be impossible to nerf any class some day.

Don’t get me wrong, warrior is the best profession in the game, period. I don’t think anyone can seriously argue against that. But other professions have gotten somewhat better as well; the current warrior vs. builds from last winter would be even more absurd than balance is now.

I can see your point.
The problem is buffing classes to be at the same level as others and that was what hapened to the warrior class. If you do this all the times when a profession needs help then you are going to have a insane power creep. In the future, in order to nerf one class you will need to nerf all other classes that can be a match to that class other wise that class will be UP from night to day. They can nerf one class but they will need to see the tools that are working right now and then balance them.

I hope it makes sence to you.

Good warrior uses his utilities as well . Joke of the year . Dolyak SIGNET
Healing SIGNET , SIGNET of rage .

Nuff Said .

a t s e.9614:

Good warrior uses his utilities as well . Joke of the year . Dolyak SIGNET
Healing SIGNET , SIGNET of rage .

Nuff Said .

and the other 3 skills?

Fortus.6175:

a t s e.9614:

Warrior is not the old D\D ele because even the OP ele had to press dozens of buttons but the current warrior only uses 3 .

^

and not only that, the old D/D ele would be ashamed of today’s warrior, old D/D today would be balanced among all the other OP stuff in the game.

Wrong. The Old D/D ele would still be OP today. I think you forget how many nerfs it has received.

silentnight warrior.2714:

I can see your point.
The problem is buffing classes to be at the same level as others and that was what hapened to the warrior class. If you do this all the times when a profession needs help then you are going to have a insane power creep. In the future, in order to nerf one class you will need to nerf all other classes that can be a match to that class other wise that class will be UP from night to day. They can nerf one class but they will need to see the tools that are working right now and then balance them.

I hope it makes sence to you.

I agree completely. For example, warrior healing signet needs to be changed a bit (maybe weaker passive, stronger active) and CI needs to be tweaked (maybe no effect/full cooldown for missed burst skill, or just reduced to 1-2 conditions instead of 3). UF and MH might need slight reduction as well.

At the same time, necros need a couple of tweaks; otherwise, we’d be right back where we were a couple months ago. I’d suggest increasing CD’s on condi flips (so they don’t hard counter other condi builds so much) and making the huge condi dumps more telegraphed.

At that point, engineers might even need a couple things toned down. Thieves would be very strong comparatively but should be all right, I think. Guardians will always be a great profession, rangers still need some buffs/nerfs to get more build variety, eles might need a bit more attention.

But I agree—no profession exists in a vacuum. If they buff one profession, another one suffers. If they nerf one, another one is indirectly buffed.

a t s e.9614:

Good warrior uses his utilities as well . Joke of the year . Dolyak SIGNET
Healing SIGNET , SIGNET of rage .

Nuff Said .

Why would you not use them at the proper time? Even healing if you are about to be killed and it gives u that 1 extra second.

Rufy.6093:

a t s e.9614:

Good warrior uses his utilities as well . Joke of the year . Dolyak SIGNET
Healing SIGNET , SIGNET of rage .

Nuff Said .

Why would you not use them at the proper time? Even healing if you are about to be killed and it gives u that 1 extra second.

Well that does sound like a next-level strat, but his point was that every profession uses their utilities. Warriors needing to use their utilities to be effective does not make them difficult to play. “I have conditions on me…zerker stance. I’m getting cc’d…dolyak signet.” It’s very 1:1, zero-variety gameplay. That in itself doesn’t make warriors “OP,” but it does make them unhealthy for the game.

Old ele wasn’t that OP. Just like today they could be easily killed with immobilize for example. Good mesmers, condi engis or trap rangers also totally destroyed eles. Overall eles even before the nerfs were susceptible to conditions due to their low HP-pool. Bunker-eles couldn’t kill other bunkers, weren’t better at bunkering than guardians and it took a while for them to kill GC players. GC-Eles weren’t viable at all (contrary to warriors) and still aren’t. We had to spec bunker to be usefull. Warriors now even have better survivability with berserker amulet than pre-nerf eles with soldier or clerics gear.

silentnight warrior.2714:

a t s e.9614:

Good warrior uses his utilities as well . Joke of the year . Dolyak SIGNET
Healing SIGNET , SIGNET of rage .

Nuff Said .

and the other 3 skills?

You’re arguing technicalities of a post that was not written to be absolute fact. Of course warriors use more than 3 keys. You know that, atse knows that. But do not, for one second, argue that the current Warrior is even remotely as difficult to play as the old D/D ele was, swapping between 4 attunements, using all of the skills in addition to utility skills.

I have a warrior. I had the oldschool OP D/D ele. My warrior accomplishes what my old d/d ele did, with less effort, more damage, and less stress. I know you do not want your easy mode nerfed silent, but its going to happen. Embrace it.

Do you guys know why i gave up on this OP or not OP non-sense ? 3 reasons why warrior can’t even be nerfed.

1) gw2 is a casual game , they must allow dem bads to win or they will quit
the game and won’t buy gems
2) warrior is the most played class in ALL aspects of the game.. do you really think they can nerf it into the ground like Ele ?
3) I don’t even think people care about the balance . Active. Pvpers already rolled warrior because it takes 30 sec to make a character .

ONE Year the Warrior was not VIABLE in sPvP. So calm down. Mesmer is still easy mode, Ranger too. And Necrotics – Nuff said! Ele is overnerfed and need some love.

a t s e.9614:

Do you guys know why i gave up on this OP or not OP non-sense ? 3 reasons why warrior can’t even be nerfed.

1) gw2 is a casual game , they must allow dem bads to win or they will quit
the game and won’t buy gems
2) warrior is the most played class in ALL aspects of the game.. do you really think they can nerf it into the ground like Ele ?
3) I don’t even think people care about the balance . Active. Pvpers already rolled warrior because it takes 30 sec to make a character .

OMG, THIS IS SO WRONG!!! I CAN’T BELIEVE HOW FAR OFF FROM THE TRUTH YOU ARE….

It takes like 5 minutes to make a character. :-)

Miko.5726:

ONE Year the Warrior was not VIABLE in sPvP. So calm down. Mesmer is still easy mode, Ranger too. And Necrotics – Nuff said! Ele is overnerfed and need some love.

oh so by that logic whatever class was weak should recive huge buff and be OP for few months..because..it is “fair”

sry game balance doesn’t work like that

a t s e.9614:

Do you guys know why i gave up on this OP or not OP non-sense ? 3 reasons why warrior can’t even be nerfed.

1) gw2 is a casual game , they must allow dem bads to win or they will quit
the game and won’t buy gems
2) warrior is the most played class in ALL aspects of the game.. do you really think they can nerf it into the ground like Ele ?
3) I don’t even think people care about the balance . Active. Pvpers already rolled warrior because it takes 30 sec to make a character .

Well, but what if I play warrior because I like the idea of playing a non-magic fighter?

It feels bad to be forced to play an OP class, knowing it and forcing myself to make a build and make it not too powerful. I had to give up on all cc because of how strong and popular it became.

I, as a warrior, want a balanced class. I want to be able to use any weapon my class has without feeling ashamed.

And I don’t want to play a thief. Or a mesmer. Or a ranger.

5 Warrior teams in “top tier” matches… why am I still playing this game?

Because warrior use to be really bad?

sorrychief.2563:

Because warrior use to be really bad?

so…?

Does that mean that since ele have been terrible for more than 6 months should they deserve a year of godlike status?

Im glad people like you dont work at balancing game, it would scare away the few players playing it…

Nerf incoming!

I wish to see more double CDs on impactful skills when they miss or hit like what you did with Ride the Lightning. Maybe we’ll see less spam of CC, condi, or anything else spam.

Don’t forget to buf thieves please
I don’t wanna be forced to use S\D

JonathanSharp.7094:

Warriors are pretty strong right now, but will be seeing changes in an upcoming patch.

We like how they can be tanky, and we like how they can do DPS if they want. We also like the CC they can bring. We just don’t like them doing it all with 1 build.

You pretty much summed it up very clearly how I think most of the community feels.

You guys have your hands full with this task. Good luck.

The problem is, when I read the warrior threads now, they still have threads all over demanding unreasonable buffs. As this is the most played profession, the amount of backlash will be vast. The problem with the warrior forums in my opinion, is the quantity with a lack of quality.

JonathanSharp.7094:

Warriors are pretty strong right now, but will be seeing changes in an upcoming patch.

We like how they can be tanky, and we like how they can do DPS if they want. We also like the CC they can bring. We just don’t like them doing it all with 1 build.

how about u guys try to do something about condi dmg. If I DONT bring serker stance and cleanseing ire I just melt, unless I do shouts and in that case I don’t have the dmg. And still with all that I see a death break down of nothing but condi. unless that’s what u want.

How about you let them nerf the broken crap as hard as possible ?

pls buff rangers too… we badly need that. nerf necros too, they are getting nastier now.

JonathanSharp.7094:

Warriors are pretty strong right now, but will be seeing changes in an upcoming patch.

We like how they can be tanky, and we like how they can do DPS if they want. We also like the CC they can bring. We just don’t like them doing it all with 1 build.

Great, so how many months is it until that patch?

Oblivion.8307:

i never encountered the whole d/d thing, nobody ever ran it on eu. s/d clerics was all the rage on eu, but that didn’t really have damage. It had enough damage to kill very slowly.

lolwut? d/d was meta in EU for a long time as well.

coglin.1867:

JonathanSharp.7094:

Warriors are pretty strong right now, but will be seeing changes in an upcoming patch.

We like how they can be tanky, and we like how they can do DPS if they want. We also like the CC they can bring. We just don’t like them doing it all with 1 build.

You pretty much summed it up very clearly how I think most of the community feels.

You guys have your hands full with this task. Good luck.

The problem is, when I read the warrior threads now, they still have threads all over demanding unreasonable buffs. As this is the most played profession, the amount of backlash will be vast. The problem with the warrior forums in my opinion, is the quantity with a lack of quality.

With other class players going there and making trouble… Yes! Lacks quality!

My starting guess would be changes to Unsuspecting Foe and/or Merciless Hammer – either they get moved or have their values diminished. Also, might see healing sig’s baseline heal scaled back by a tiny bit, and maybe scale better with healing to keep in line for such builds. I wouldn’t be surprised if cleansing ire is changed to require a hit, and burst skills drain adrenaline on a miss at some point too.