Warrior Rarely Loses in a Downed V. Downed
Wait…warrior downed state? Ahahahaha….
Sorry, could not help it. I think you mean the trait that gives him 100% chance to rally when killing something while in vengeance.
(edited by Avatara.1042)
Wait…warrior downed state? Ahahahaha….
I know. The planets were aligned today and I was actually able to down one for about 5 seconds!
They are suppose to look at all downed state abilities. Some are OP some are Meh.
[TWIN] Anvil Rock
They are suppose to look at all downed state abilities. Some are OP some are Meh.
I know the downed state for the Ranger (like everything else) is virtually pointless. I can stun for 1 second. I can press 3 around the time the finally blow is at my face and even then my pet would only THEN start to heal me. 4 is a joke. 1 does nothing pretty much.
Ranger has an AOE stun with 1~k dmg + they can rez themselves with a pet – in my opinion it is not pointless, it is up there with one of the better ones.
For example necromancer – 1 second fear on 1 target + a poison aoe as a 3 that does not do any dmg (mesmers #3 ability hits for 6k~ on some targets).
Wars down state is almost as weak as necros – if 2 people start finishing you, there is no way to survive, since stun is also a single target. The rally is only good if you are both downed, and no allies nearby at all so after 8 seconds he can walk up and stab you, but in tpvp I have never seen a warrior get to do that – its simply far too easy to finish them.
ranger has fully functional pets & petswaps while downed. i have won many fights when being downed first because a pet with quickness chews through the remaining life of a stationary opponent trying to stomp me.
plus we have an AoE daze, something that others envy in group fight situations as we can stop multiple stompers to get a rez, even if they are invisible.
this is balanced against things like a warrior with vengeance winning a rock fight. i think rangers have a big advantage over warriors in the stand up, so i don’t see this as unfair.
i like that each class plays differently in the downed state. the abilities should be unique & powerful. vengeance is great & fits the warrior theme.
http://www.youtube.com/channel/UCfhikZxZ-rtr_knUtXZNJMw
http://twitch.tv/cutsu
Elementalists had the easily the worst downed state before they buffed it. So Anet are looking into downed states.
This has happened many times vs many classes. I am a Ranger and of course our downed abilities are trash compared to others. A 1 second stun and no abilities that move us to another spot like most classes, or a push. However the most annoying one is a Warrior. I down the Warrior (by magic). My HP is low he downs me. So usually vs any class I will lose this battle anyway. But at least I might have a chance. However against a warrior if I get downed while he is downed he gets a free rally because of his get up and fight normally ability. He can get up finish me off and then get a free rally. This is such a cheap tactic and one I see many warriors doing. If they down another person while they are downed the best tactic by the person getting attacked is to suicide so the warrior might die. I find this ability cheap in every fashion possible because they are almost guaranteed to rally if their team is near by so he can at least get one hit in and rally. In PvE I also imagine this is extremely cheap since PvE at level 80 as a warrior is probably extremely easy. I thought maybe I could stun him long enough for him to die because of that abilities time limit. However I cannot stun him either. I pressed 2 and nothing happened to him.
how did u get downed by a warrior in the first place?
Ranger’s downed state is quite powerful. You can use your pet’s skills while downed and even switch pets.
All of those saying how good a ranger’s downed state is….have you ever played a ranger? Sure, the pet can rez you…or at least that is what the button says. However, what usually happens, by the time you can use the button, you press it, the pet comes over, sniffs you for a second and you die. So you either leave your pet chewing on someone hoping it MIGHT kill someone before you get your head jumped on, or you call your pet over to spend that last little bit of time together before you get your head stomped on.
Hoping downed states are looked at and tweaked for the patch. /fingers crossed
All of those saying how good a ranger’s downed state is….have you ever played a ranger? Sure, the pet can rez you…or at least that is what the button says. However, what usually happens, by the time you can use the button, you press it, the pet comes over, sniffs you for a second and you die. So you either leave your pet chewing on someone hoping it MIGHT kill someone before you get your head jumped on, or you call your pet over to spend that last little bit of time together before you get your head stomped on.
Hoping downed states are looked at and tweaked for the patch. /fingers crossed
Once downed a ranger who was able to kill me by using his pet wolf from downed, 1s daze+fear howl+another daze ( which recharged in the meantime)
I don’t need to go into an in-depth analysis since everyone knows it already, but Warriors easily have the worst downed state in the game right now.What you’re complaining about may be the only situation in the entire game (1v1 vs a near dead opponent) in which the Warrior has a chance of actually getting back up. And of course I’ll point out, Vengeance in PvE is a “I’ll pay 1.5 silver” button unless you’re surrounded by tons of tiny adds, and in PvP it’s just an “I lost” button. You WILL die if you use it. Oh, unless you take a major trait in the most worthless attribute line of any class across all professions. All this predicated on using that 3 skill, which if your enemy jumps on you as soon as you go down, even if you time your hammer throw perfectly and he’s stupid enough not to hide behind his bear, use a blind, use invisibility, use stability, use a block, dodge, or so on, you STILL won’t have it off recharge in time to use it.
Totally overpowered. We should nerf it some more so you can rest assured that Warriors are 100% a free kill when downed, rather than the old 90%. They’re practically a free kill 1v1 as it is. May as well make it official.
(edited by Plague.5329)
There are a ton of mismatches and issues with down stated.
Thief and Mesmer are the slippery ones. However, in downed vs downed one class will do far more damage than the other.
I have tested a few odd things out like the trait for thief that gives you 50% more downed damage. If I sit and trade licks with some I get totally annihilated even with a toughness build. The entire system needs reworking/rethinking.
I play a ranger. I actually thought we were the best downed state. AoE interrupt, pet that can heal you, and you can still use pet skills. Interrupt → Fear → Knockdown → To interrupt. You should be dead by then. Granted I have never been in a downed fight against a warrior.
Am I good?… I’m good.
The Ranger Downstate abilities are pretty awful.
3 Is useless, You will not get it off pretty much 99% of the time, the remaining 1% it’ll bug out.
2 While an AOE daze is decent for delaying death…It’s nothing compared to Thief/Mesmer/Elementalist in delaying fights.
You can use your pet abilities though, and if it’s a rogue who can’t stealth or you’ve gotten someone low you can switch pets for some quick burst, I know i’ve done that…
But Rangers are easily one of the worst down states..
Maybe if 3 was actually worthwhile it’d be better, but 3 as of right now is crap..
Natures Ninja and Pain Inverter – Ranger PvP movies
http://www.twitch.tv/xsorovos
Ranger has an AOE stun with 1~k dmg + they can rez themselves with a pet – in my opinion it is not pointless, it is up there with one of the better ones.
For example necromancer – 1 second fear on 1 target + a poison aoe as a 3 that does not do any dmg (mesmers #3 ability hits for 6k~ on some targets).
Wars down state is almost as weak as necros – if 2 people start finishing you, there is no way to survive, since stun is also a single target. The rally is only good if you are both downed, and no allies nearby at all so after 8 seconds he can walk up and stab you, but in tpvp I have never seen a warrior get to do that – its simply far too easy to finish them.
That 1 second fear can fear people off ledges and cliffs or move them towards another target. That 1 second stun which does only 1k of damage. Something I can heal back with my passive healing in about 2 seconds. You know how many times I have rezed myself with my pet in pvp? Never.
Ranger has an AOE stun with 1~k dmg + they can rez themselves with a pet – in my opinion it is not pointless, it is up there with one of the better ones.
For example necromancer – 1 second fear on 1 target + a poison aoe as a 3 that does not do any dmg (mesmers #3 ability hits for 6k~ on some targets).
Wars down state is almost as weak as necros – if 2 people start finishing you, there is no way to survive, since stun is also a single target. The rally is only good if you are both downed, and no allies nearby at all so after 8 seconds he can walk up and stab you, but in tpvp I have never seen a warrior get to do that – its simply far too easy to finish them.
That 1 second fear can fear people off ledges and cliffs or move them towards another target. That 1 second stun which does only 1k of damage. Something I can heal back with my passive healing in about 2 seconds. You know how many times I have rezed myself with my pet in pvp? Never.
I have never saved my own life as a necro with my down state fear. 1 second on one target is nothing when they just come right back and finish you off. They barely move away from you in one second. I mean how often do you die next to a cliff for them to fall off. fear them into another target….they dont forget what they are doing, nor do they just think O im going to go attack that random mob or player who is no danger to me yet.
Vengeance Question – why do warriors seem to be immune to CC once they get back up even though there’s no stability boon?
I’ve stayed at this party entirely too long
I am almost positive that vengeance does not let the Warrior pop up if he kills his opponent. Once the timer runs out on Vengeance, the Warrior dies permanently. Not hard to just avoid them for 15 seconds.
That 1 second fear can fear people off ledges and cliffs or move them towards another target. That 1 second stun which does only 1k of damage. Something I can heal back with my passive healing in about 2 seconds. You know how many times I have rezed myself with my pet in pvp? Never.
No it can’t. Also guess how much damage fear does?
(spoiler: 0)
That 1 second fear can fear people off ledges and cliffs or move them towards another target. That 1 second stun which does only 1k of damage. Something I can heal back with my passive healing in about 2 seconds. You know how many times I have rezed myself with my pet in pvp? Never.
No it can’t. Also guess how much damage fear does?
(spoiler: 0)
sure it can. it just requires +50% Fear duration trait and incredibly poor positioning on your opponents part.
Fear can also do dmg when traited. just not enough to be considered worthwhile.
I’ve stayed at this party entirely too long
Vengeance Question – why do warriors seem to be immune to CC once they get back up under the effects of vengeance even though there’s no stability boon?
bumping. I’d really like an answer to this question.
You get ~5 seconds of invulnerability when you vengeance.
“Come! Break your weapons upon me!”
Vengeance Question – why do warriors seem to be immune to CC once they get back up under the effects of vengeance even though there’s no stability boon?
bumping. I’d really like an answer to this question.
You get ~5 seconds of invulnerability when you vengeance.
that’s just kittened up…
what’s the point of a downed state if certain classes don’t need teammates to revive them?
I’ve stayed at this party entirely too long
OP, you need more practise, tbh
I play a ranger, and ranger’s down state is one of the better ones right now—you still have access to your pet and all your pet commands. I can recall multiple times where my wolf will knock down the guy trying to stomp me. All the while I’m spamming 1 to stack as much bleed as I can. They come back, F2 fear with wolf, continue spamming 1. They come back again, interrupt them. If they go down now you’ll have a pretty good chance to win—hit 3 and let your pet regen you. Most people forget about it. You will win them by out-regening and with the amount of bleed damage that’s ticking.
(edited by monepipi.5160)
Vengeance Question – why do warriors seem to be immune to CC once they get back up under the effects of vengeance even though there’s no stability boon?
bumping. I’d really like an answer to this question.
You get ~5 seconds of invulnerability when you vengeance.
that’s just kittened up…
what’s the point of a downed state if certain classes don’t need teammates to revive them?
Lol, its not a revive….its borrowed time and a delayed death. Just CC or move away, after 15 secs the warrior will expire at your feet.
Vengeance Question – why do warriors seem to be immune to CC once they get back up under the effects of vengeance even though there’s no stability boon?
bumping. I’d really like an answer to this question.
You get ~5 seconds of invulnerability when you vengeance.
that’s just kittened up…
what’s the point of a downed state if certain classes don’t need teammates to revive them?
Lol, its not a revive….its borrowed time and a delayed death. Just CC or move away, after 15 secs the warrior will expire at your feet.
Just CC and move away? Did you not read the part about the 5 sec of invulnerability?
and how is it not a revive? he was down, now he’s up without anyone’s help, and not only that he’s invulnerable, and when traited just needs to kill something to survive the vengeance effects? Oh, and his HB is off CD, he’s probably got Frenzy ready as well, adn the would be stomper is standing right in front of him still trying to stomp before he can pop vengeance. give me a kittening break.
maybe I’m bias about this since I’m playing my necro lately and they suffer without a reliable stability to stomp with, but logically speaking it’s completely counterintuitive to the whole mechanic for a player to revive themselves.
I’ve stayed at this party entirely too long
OP, you need more practise, tbh
I play a ranger, and ranger’s down state is one of the better ones right now—you still have access to your pet and all your pet commands. I can recall multiple times where my wolf will knock down the guy trying to stomp me. All the while I’m spamming 1 to stack as much bleed as I can. They come back, F2 fear with wolf, continue spamming 1. They come back again, interrupt them. If they go down now you’ll have a pretty good chance to win—hit 3 and let your pet regen you. Most people forget about it. You will win them by out-regening and with the amount of bleed damage that’s ticking.
I can recall even more times where my wolf just regularly attacked because I have no control over when my wolf pounces. I also read a post earlier where someone said to use the wolfs fear while I am downed. Well I can’t see when it is ready or about be be used. I was spamming F2. But I probably canceled it by accident. Otherwise I have to run around and not use my Wolfs F2 ability at all. I am also pretty sure that the wolf F2 ability has a longer cooldown than your 2 downed ability lol. Btw. REALLY? I am beginning to think you are not a Ranger. I have never ever out healed someone with my 3 ability, by the time I get to use it my pet is either down because of a melee class smacking me and it as well because it is on top of me. Or I do what you did so I can get some time so I can use the 3 ability, but by then I have already blown all my cooldowns. That doesn’t work.
(edited by IomegadriveOne.5291)
Warriors can’t use Vengence right off the bat when they’re down, you know. If I remember correctly (correct me if I’m wrong), it starts off already in cooldown, the warrior has to wait for a while before he can pop it. Anyway, if its a warrior you should expect it.
OP, you need more practise, tbh
I play a ranger, and ranger’s down state is one of the better ones right now—you still have access to your pet and all your pet commands. I can recall multiple times where my wolf will knock down the guy trying to stomp me. All the while I’m spamming 1 to stack as much bleed as I can. They come back, F2 fear with wolf, continue spamming 1. They come back again, interrupt them. If they go down now you’ll have a pretty good chance to win—hit 3 and let your pet regen you. Most people forget about it. You will win them by out-regening and with the amount of bleed damage that’s ticking.
I can recall even more times where my wolf just regularly attacked because I have no control over when my wolf pounces. I also read a post earlier where someone said to use the wolfs fear while I am downed. Well I can’t see when it is ready or about be be used. I was spamming F2. But I probably canceled it by accident. Otherwise I have to run around and not use my Wolfs F2 ability at all. I am also pretty sure that the wolf F2 ability has a longer cooldown than your 2 downed ability lol. Btw. REALLY? I am beginning to think you are not a Ranger. I have never ever out healed someone with my 3 ability, by the time I get to use it my pet is either down because of a melee class smacking me and it as well because it is on top of me. Or I do what you did so I can get some time so I can use the 3 ability, but by then I have already blown all my cooldowns. That doesn’t work.
You expect to win every time you’re downed? Yes, my main is a lvl 80 ranger, feel free to pm and party me in game. Stop complaining when you blow your pet’s F2 without thinking/not swapping pets (yes, you can SWAP pets when you’re downed). Your wolf will go into animation if its up. I’ve ran into this situation lots of times now, enough to see that our class’s downed state is balanced.
Btw, use a krytan hound or raven when running around, and put wolf as your secondary. That way when you’re downed, you can instantly F4 and have your fresh wolf right next to you.
(edited by monepipi.5160)
Warriors can’t use Vengence right off the bat when they’re down, you know. If I remember correctly (correct me if I’m wrong), it starts off already in cooldown, the warrior has to wait for a while before he can pop it. Anyway, if its a warrior you should expect it.
who cares if it has a timer? every downed #3 has a timer. how many of them let people get back up from a downed state?
if everyone were supposed to be able to get back up on their own then I suppose ANet wouldn’t have designed our #4 ability to be interrupted by damage, would they?
there’s no getting around the fact that it’s completely out of line from the intended design of the mechanic.
edit: of course I’d have nothing to complain about though if ANet would just give my necro access to some form of stability so I could stomp efficiently…
I’ve stayed at this party entirely too long
OP, you need more practise, tbh
I play a ranger, and ranger’s down state is one of the better ones right now—you still have access to your pet and all your pet commands. I can recall multiple times where my wolf will knock down the guy trying to stomp me. All the while I’m spamming 1 to stack as much bleed as I can. They come back, F2 fear with wolf, continue spamming 1. They come back again, interrupt them. If they go down now you’ll have a pretty good chance to win—hit 3 and let your pet regen you. Most people forget about it. You will win them by out-regening and with the amount of bleed damage that’s ticking.
I can recall even more times where my wolf just regularly attacked because I have no control over when my wolf pounces. I also read a post earlier where someone said to use the wolfs fear while I am downed. Well I can’t see when it is ready or about be be used. I was spamming F2. But I probably canceled it by accident. Otherwise I have to run around and not use my Wolfs F2 ability at all. I am also pretty sure that the wolf F2 ability has a longer cooldown than your 2 downed ability lol. Btw. REALLY? I am beginning to think you are not a Ranger. I have never ever out healed someone with my 3 ability, by the time I get to use it my pet is either down because of a melee class smacking me and it as well because it is on top of me. Or I do what you did so I can get some time so I can use the 3 ability, but by then I have already blown all my cooldowns. That doesn’t work.
You expect to win every time you’re downed? Yes, my main is a lvl 80 ranger, feel free to pm and party me in game. Stop complaining when you blow your pet’s F2 without thinking/not swapping pets (yes, you can SWAP pets when you’re downed). Your wolf will go into animation if its up. I’ve ran into this situation lots of times now, enough to see that our class’s downed state is balanced.
Btw, use a krytan hound or raven when running around, and put wolf as your secondary. That way when you’re downed, you can instantly F4 and have your fresh wolf right next to you.
First sentence you say something I never said or even hinted at. Thank you, I still want my little bit of DPS I have so I will not rely on one pet when I am speced in Beast Mastery. Now because of that one sentence in the beginning I will now be ignoring you.
Warriors can’t use Vengence right off the bat when they’re down, you know. If I remember correctly (correct me if I’m wrong), it starts off already in cooldown, the warrior has to wait for a while before he can pop it. Anyway, if its a warrior you should expect it.
who cares if it has a timer? every downed #3 has a timer. how many of them let people get back up from a downed state?
if everyone were supposed to be able to get back up on their own then I suppose ANet wouldn’t have designed our #4 ability to be interrupted by damage, would they?
there’s no getting around the fact that it’s completely out of line from the intended design of the mechanic.
edit: of course I’d have nothing to complain about though if ANet would just give my necro access to some form of stability so I could stomp efficiently…
Vengeance takes long enough to come up that you can start stomping when they go down, get knocked down by their #2, then still stomp them before vengeance comes up. You can also block a warrior’s #2 with a minion, or put down well of darkness to make it miss. Or just, you know, walk away to 1200 range, wait them to get up, dodge once, then cripple/chill them and walk away and they’ll die.
“Come! Break your weapons upon me!”
OP, you need more practise, tbh
I play a ranger, and ranger’s down state is one of the better ones right now—you still have access to your pet and all your pet commands. I can recall multiple times where my wolf will knock down the guy trying to stomp me. All the while I’m spamming 1 to stack as much bleed as I can. They come back, F2 fear with wolf, continue spamming 1. They come back again, interrupt them. If they go down now you’ll have a pretty good chance to win—hit 3 and let your pet regen you. Most people forget about it. You will win them by out-regening and with the amount of bleed damage that’s ticking.
I can recall even more times where my wolf just regularly attacked because I have no control over when my wolf pounces. I also read a post earlier where someone said to use the wolfs fear while I am downed. Well I can’t see when it is ready or about be be used. I was spamming F2. But I probably canceled it by accident. Otherwise I have to run around and not use my Wolfs F2 ability at all. I am also pretty sure that the wolf F2 ability has a longer cooldown than your 2 downed ability lol. Btw. REALLY? I am beginning to think you are not a Ranger. I have never ever out healed someone with my 3 ability, by the time I get to use it my pet is either down because of a melee class smacking me and it as well because it is on top of me. Or I do what you did so I can get some time so I can use the 3 ability, but by then I have already blown all my cooldowns. That doesn’t work.
You expect to win every time you’re downed? Yes, my main is a lvl 80 ranger, feel free to pm and party me in game. Stop complaining when you blow your pet’s F2 without thinking/not swapping pets (yes, you can SWAP pets when you’re downed). Your wolf will go into animation if its up. I’ve ran into this situation lots of times now, enough to see that our class’s downed state is balanced.
Btw, use a krytan hound or raven when running around, and put wolf as your secondary. That way when you’re downed, you can instantly F4 and have your fresh wolf right next to you.
First sentence you say something I never said or even hinted at. Thank you, I still want my little bit of DPS I have so I will not rely on one pet when I am speced in Beast Mastery. Now because of that one sentence in the beginning I will now be ignoring you.
lol, BM built? well thats your problem, relying on the dps of the terrible attack animation flaw of pets and ignoring legitmate suggestions. I can totally see you running around being a glass cannon relying on pets and then complaining on the forums when you get downed in a snap.
Warriors can’t use Vengence right off the bat when they’re down, you know. If I remember correctly (correct me if I’m wrong), it starts off already in cooldown, the warrior has to wait for a while before he can pop it. Anyway, if its a warrior you should expect it.
who cares if it has a timer? every downed #3 has a timer. how many of them let people get back up from a downed state?
if everyone were supposed to be able to get back up on their own then I suppose ANet wouldn’t have designed our #4 ability to be interrupted by damage, would they?
there’s no getting around the fact that it’s completely out of line from the intended design of the mechanic.
edit: of course I’d have nothing to complain about though if ANet would just give my necro access to some form of stability so I could stomp efficiently…
I’m confused why you think Anet didn’t intend for people to be able to get up on their own from downed state using Vengeance when they pretty much explicitly made that the function of the skill. Anyways…
Guardian’s Downed #3 produces a symbol that heals for 4k each second, uninterruptible, that is very capable of ressurecting if the opposing team isn’t paying attention, or if there’s only one other downed opponent nearby. Engineers can throw down their Elixir R toolbelt skill before they go down to self-rez before an opponent’s stomp animation can complete. So no, the Warrior’s not the only one that can get up by themselves from the downed state, and as others have stated, their ability to do so is not particularly reliable. For one thing, the Warrior is unable to prevent an initial stomp from more than one player. For another, even when using the #2 with proper timing, a single opponent who doesn’t waste time will finish you before you can use the #3 (this is consistent with the majority of downed states). Finally, you need 20 points in Discipline to guarantee that you’ll stay up even after you managed to get the kill. The only time the Warrior will have a consistent advantage is when both players are downed and there is no one else around, or when they have allies around to help them (in which case, Vengenance may very well not be necessary). Their downed state is subpar in all other situations, matching up most closely with the Necromancer’s.
So, to review, if you were going to lose a 1v1 to a downed warrior, you would need to 1) Waste a considerable chunk of time getting to him initially, 2) Fail to dodge/block his #2/blind him/apply stability/use Quickness, 3) Get downed yourself or 3a), have expended all of your defenses, so that when he gets up, he can kill you within 5-15 seconds, 4) have burned all of your CC or your own offensive abilities, so that you can’t snare him or just kill him outright after his initial invulnerability is gone, and finally, 5) Lose the coin flip that he’ll stay standing if he’s not traited – if the 50% chance falls in your favor, then it’s just a draw, regardless of any injured pride that may exist.
If you manage to mess up somewhere during each of these steps, I think that the Warrior deserved the kill, and should have a chance to stay standing.
Also, underwater downed states…let’s not even go there. Rangers and Mesmers in particular, I’ve found, are the Obi-Wans of the underwater downed states: when they are downed, they become stronger than you could possibly imagine. I’ve killed multiple full-health opponents fighting me at the same time on Capricorn as a downed Ranger underwater, surviving for 5+ minutes at a time with multiple rallies in between. If the other team doesn’t own the sharks, there’s nothing they can do but slowly die. It’s a similar case with downed Mesmers and their confusion spam, though that’s less about insane survivability and more about winning a war of lethal attrition.
TL:DR – I disagree that the Warrior downed state is overpowered or unfair to other classes.
“Just CC and move away? Did you not read the part about the 5 sec of invulnerability?
and how is it not a revive? he was down, now he’s up without anyone’s help, and not only that he’s invulnerable, and when traited just needs to kill something to survive the vengeance effects? Oh, and his HB is off CD, he’s probably got Frenzy ready as well, adn the would be stomper is standing right in front of him still trying to stomp before he can pop vengeance. give me a kittening break."
Yes, people like this are the ones that usually cry in forums about thieves, wars, or any other profession…
How is this not a revive? You dodge his bull charge if he has one and run away for few seconds in an opposite direction and he dies without even dmg you – even if he downs you in lets say 5 seconds, he still will probably die faster than he can finish you. If you are quick you also have enough time to finish downed warrior 2x times before he uses his #3. Also you do not need stability to finish him in the first place, since his #2 animation is very noticeable and you can actually stop+dodge it to end war even quicker.
P.S. Necro has stability from DS, or canceling elite skills that gives you 15 sec of stability.
(edited by Lukin.4061)
In fact even better…
The warrior somehow has activate his vengeance (after being left alone for a whole 20 seconds apparently). He manages to get up and starts fighting.
He has to get to you, kill you and then stomp you in the space of 15 seconds or he falls over.
Even if he kills you somehow, and he can’t get the stomp off, you will revive from him falling over at the end of vengeance.
Warriors have hands down the worst downed state abilities in the game.
I really think people are overvaluing vengeance.
1. Warriors are one of the easiest classes to stomp, so the chances of them getting vengeance off to begin with are slim.
2. Most warriors, afaik, don’t take sweet revenge. There are better traits for any number of different builds assuming they even go that far into discipline.
3. If for whatever reason they do pop vengeance, they’re unlikely to have any cd’s of consequence available so avoiding them for 15 secs should be a non-issue. If they happen to down you, chances are they’ll die before finishing the stomp.
4. Vengeance is still bugged and kills you a second time at your spawn if you die while vengeanced and respawn before the effect expires – which can basically turn an instant rez into a 20 sec rez. This means that using vengeance can actually be a bad thing, depending on the situation.
All in all, warrior downed state is pretty mediocre.
In fact even better…
The warrior somehow has activate his vengeance (after being left alone for a whole 20 seconds apparently). He manages to get up and starts fighting.
He has to get to you, kill you and then stomp you in the space of 15 seconds or he falls over.
Even if he kills you somehow, and he can’t get the stomp off, you will revive from him falling over at the end of vengeance.
Warriors have hands down the worst downed state abilities in the game.
That’s my favorite part of people complaining about Vengeance.
Even if the planets align correctly and you fail the first spike from being hammer-struck, which you can easily block, blind, etc… and then you fail the second spike somehow (which is only possible if you wasted time getting to him AND the Warrior timed the first hammer throw at the very last millisecond of your first spike)… and then the Warrior gets up and somehow manages to down you in the space of fifteen seconds (I guess those five seconds of invulnerability to prevent exploits = god mode, HURRRR)… THEN….
The Warrior then tries to spike you, but dies, because time ran out. It actually takes more time to finish a downed enemy than Vengeance gives you to try. Your opponent will then rally. Or even if he could spike you with his first try, you just hit mist form, fear him, stealth out, and so on for your second spike, which there is no way he will ever, ever be able to have the time to pull off in any situation.
That. That is hilariously stupid. Not only do Warriors have the worst downed #2, and not only will Warriors probably never even get to use #3, but it also kills them if they try to use it, and in PvP, there’s not even enough time to down people and spike them to have the chance to rally, because everyone’s downed states are already superior. Sweet Vengeance doesn’t even factor into the situation because they need to actually get the kill for it to even come into play. The actual odds of a downed Warrior getting back up are so tiny I’d expect them to be less than 1% in almost any situation in PvP. The opponent would have to have no clue what he was doing, and all his teammates would have to be off doing something else, against a Warrior who had gotten the opponent down to a few hundred health – just enough that throwing rocks isn’t viable but Vengeancing is a possibility, and then survived one spike by throwing a perfectly timed hammer, and then survived a second from sheer luck, Vengeance at the last second, land a couple of blows to finish what the rocks couldn’t, then immediately spike with stability against an opponent that can’t fear or stealth. Wow. If you’re afraid of that… you are a bad player.
A Warrior on his back is staying on his back. It’s actually more beneficial to just throw rocks than it is to bother even trying to use your hammer. At least then you get in a little damage before you die.
(edited by Plague.5329)
Warriors can’t use Vengence right off the bat when they’re down, you know. If I remember correctly (correct me if I’m wrong), it starts off already in cooldown, the warrior has to wait for a while before he can pop it. Anyway, if its a warrior you should expect it.
who cares if it has a timer? every downed #3 has a timer. how many of them let people get back up from a downed state?
if everyone were supposed to be able to get back up on their own then I suppose ANet wouldn’t have designed our #4 ability to be interrupted by damage, would they?
there’s no getting around the fact that it’s completely out of line from the intended design of the mechanic.
edit: of course I’d have nothing to complain about though if ANet would just give my necro access to some form of stability so I could stomp efficiently…
I’m confused why you think Anet didn’t intend for people to be able to get up on their own from downed state using Vengeance when they pretty much explicitly made that the function of the skill. Anyways…
Guardian’s Downed #3 produces a symbol that heals for 4k each second, uninterruptible, that is very capable of ressurecting if the opposing team isn’t paying attention, or if there’s only one other downed opponent nearby. Engineers can throw down their Elixir R toolbelt skill before they go down to self-rez before an opponent’s stomp animation can complete.
<snip>TL:DR – I disagree that the Warrior downed state is overpowered or unfair to other classes.
Guardian #3 is not instant revive nor does it give them 5 sec of invulnerability. Elixir R is not a downed ability either – though also suspect IMO.
I didn’t say that the Warrior downed state was over powered. I said Vengeance was out of line with the intended design of the downed state. Every warrior I know has told me that all they worry about is getting the player downed, whether they get downed or not. Once it’s a downed fight they can’t lose….
but if you’d prefer, we can just agree to disagree.
I’ve stayed at this party entirely too long
In my experience if you take the trait to give 100% rally chance on vengeance, you lose a much better trait for it such as “movement skills break immobilize” for example. I’d rather try not to get downed than spend a trait just for that situation.
I just had the same thing happen again. The warrior just laid there taking my hits waiting for me to blow my cooldowns to try and finish him. Gets up, use my wolf, nothing. I die he runs off.
Vengeance is good………. if you can even get to use it.
If there are 2 people nearby, there is a 100% chance they will stomp you on their first try. You literally can’t stall at ALL. In a 1v1 situation, there is a 100% chance they will stomp you before vengeance comes up as long as they don’t take more than 2-3 seconds before attempting the first stomp. Warrior is by far the easiest class to stomp in the game; we only have 1 single target knock down, and have to stall for 8 seconds before vengeance comes up. You basically cross your fingers as a warrior and pray they ignore you.
I was fighting a warrior as a thief and we both downed. He used vengeance and was about to stomp me when I shadow stepped away. He was going to stomp me again when I timed my stealth to coincide with the stomp. Then he died from vengeance. That was a fun near death experience.
downed states:
In tpvp best one is probably guardian because it’s a free revive or easy stomp if has an ally close to him.
Mesmer one is quite powerful because clones will remain hiting and the illusonary rogue hits for a big amount i rarely lose a downed state if i die before the other, which is… hilarious oposed to what used to be.
Rogue downed state is very situational, you can port to an unaccesible location and get ressed up there , and you can potentially avoid 2 stomps but i don’t feel is powerful.
Warrior downed state is crap unless you fight downed vs downed because as you said rally pwns…
Hunter feels underpowered in every aspect of the game, elementalist have found builds i’ve yet to see a hunter that can’t be beaten.
Enginner one is mediocre, same as necro.
Elementalists since the patch are a pain in the kitten in tpvp you can flee to get aid, heal to maximum life if the other is crippled… or sit on the point to gain time.
Coming from a ranger…
Rangers downed state is pretty good to me. I actually use wolf as a pet. When I’m downed I can use the wolf to AoE fear my foes. I can also use a AoE stun. This is saved my kitten many times and I’ve managed to get my opponent down. Usually I win in the downed state (depending on my remaining health) simply because my pet is dealing better damage.
Warrior downed state is a bit annoying. But hey, the question is, why are you letting him down you anyway?
4. Vengeance is still bugged and kills you a second time at your spawn if you die while vengeanced and respawn before the effect expires – which can basically turn an instant rez into a 20 sec rez. This means that using vengeance can actually be a bad thing, depending on the situation.
This. Also, in 2v2 or bigger fights, a warrior using vengeance is just a free rally for anyone down.
Warrior downed state is awful except if you’re fighting downed vs downed.