Guild Wars 2

The damage is simply too high and too hard to avoid given how tanky and mobile they are. I think a reduction of the f1 on greatsword would be suitable. In addition, i think the defy pain trait is too good.

I think most agree with me on this. Mesmer is also a little too strong.

The f1 gs is fine, the mace f1 could use a change since it does too much. I think the biggest offender is whirlwind cut if I have the name right. It’s a short range leap but also can hit for 6k on 3k armour. This coefficient needs tuning.

Gwaihir.1745:

The f1 gs is fine, the mace f1 could use a change since it does too much. I think the biggest offender is whirlwind cut if I have the name right. It’s a short range leap but also can hit for 6k on 3k armour. This coefficient needs tuning.

That would be fine. I think in general the warrior greatsword is doing too much dps

Damage is to high, the entire class is OP, massive sustain, boom spam, condi clense, blocks/evades, its a mobile tank, if you get 2 of them on the opposite team its near game over,

I understand yes that some top players probably couldn’t eventually outplay them, but for 99% of players warrior is easy mode, the entire class needs looked at, else soon only things you will see on teams it, Warrior, Guard, Engi teams, boom spams, condi cleansing cheese classes.

I played a match where a Warrior and Guard sat on point boom spamming for the entire match, and bunkering in, I don’t know how that can even be viewed as fun.

I don’t have a problem with the damage. The Block is entirely too long and subsidizing their survivability dramatically. The uptime is just too high by half.

I think everyone hates the tons of passives that every class has, and warrior is probably the worst. The whole class is carried by passives/invulns and it really lacks counterplay besides just kiting, and the passives last long enough you are GUARANTEED to lose a cap if you do that.

I do agree with Rickster, I think they need to shave the range of GS berserk skill (450 range is slightly less than meteor shower) and increase the cast time. Currently the skill hits people that are so far away from the animation that you are left wondering “wth hit me” until you look at the combat log and are like “what?!?!” I would also increase the cast time on headbutt a bit. I know this would hurt most at higher levels of play, but every class needs more obvious tells on their big-hitting skills. Currently, the only class that really has a strong tell on its skills is ele, whose overloads are 4s cast time, and engie who doesn’t have too many instants. Even necros, its impossible to know which marks they are using or when they will swap weapons/shroud (which is where most of their burst comes from, and also lacks a cast time) unless you can predict their every move. At some point, gw2 became a game less about “reacting to animations” and more about “predicting which instant skill your opponent will use”

Warrior has basically always been a class with very strong sustain and high damage, but had the weakness of having more obvious tells. With the current incarnation, very important skills lack truly obvious tells. They also removed the weakness to kiting and blinds quite a bit by giving loads of resistance and stability so that, as a warrior, you can literally ignore everything an opponent can throw at you (physical damage, conditions, soft cc, hard cc) and just press your buttons to kill most players.

To be fair, Power War/Zerker it’s stronger than any of the other A tier professions when played well. It’s barely in the meta if it even is. Though I don’t think any top team plays a War? I like to play Power War in WvW, but I can think of a quite few other Prof I’d rather have or play on my team than one in Conquest. It isn’t useless, but It doesn’t delete players with F1 either.

When you see a Pro try-hard, the last thing you see them on is a Power Warrior. I’m not saying it isn’t powerful, but it’s not close to the strongest bully on the block in Conquest. And I don’t think anything changed for the good recently for Power Warrior. At least a yr? I’m pretty sure if anything it’s only been nerfed since HoT. I think it’s close to the least of pvp’s problems atm.

Edited to add Meteor Shower is 1200 range..Almost 3x the range than Arcing Slice. Though making it 400 I’d agree wouldn’t kill the skill. Any more than that would be too much. I mean, they already killed Rifle.

BlackBeard.2873:

the range of GS berserk skill (450 range is slightly less than meteor shower) Currently, the only class that really has a strong tell on its skills is ele, whose overloads are 4s cast time

You must be talking about damage area. You can use meteor shower at 1200 range. You cannot do that with Arc Divider (450 range).
Also, freash air Ele has the least tell on their burst and almost all instant.

JDjitsu.7895:

To be fair, Power War/Zerker it’s stronger than any of the other A tier professions when played well. It’s barely in the meta if it even is. Though I don’t think any top team plays a War? I like to play Power War in WvW, but I can think of a quite few other Prof I’d rather have or play on my team than one in Conquest. It isn’t useless, but It doesn’t delete players with F1 either.

When you see a Pro try-hard, the last thing you see them on is a Power Warrior. I’m not saying it isn’t powerful, but it’s not close to the strongest bully on the block in Conquest. And I don’t think anything changed for the good recently for Power Warrior. At least a yr? I’m pretty sure if anything it’s only been nerfed since HoT. I think it’s close to the least of pvp’s problems atm.

Edited to add Meteor Shower is 1200 range..Almost 3x the range than Arcing Slice. Though making it 400 I’d agree wouldn’t kill the skill. Any more than that would be too much. I mean, they already killed Rifle.

There is no meta. There are strong specs but there is no 5v5 meta. The competitive game mode is solo queue so it should be balanced around this. And warrior is too good. I suspect it would also be exceptional in 5v5 teams too but we will never know seen as that not what this game is about

BlackBeard.2873:

I think everyone hates the tons of passives that every class has, and warrior is probably the worst. The whole class is carried by passives/invulns and it really lacks counterplay besides just kiting, and the passives last long enough you are GUARANTEED to lose a cap if you do that.

I do agree with Rickster, I think they need to shave the range of GS berserk skill (450 range is slightly less than meteor shower) and increase the cast time. Currently the skill hits people that are so far away from the animation that you are left wondering “wth hit me” until you look at the combat log and are like “what?!?!” I would also increase the cast time on headbutt a bit. I know this would hurt most at higher levels of play, but every class needs more obvious tells on their big-hitting skills. Currently, the only class that really has a strong tell on its skills is ele, whose overloads are 4s cast time, and engie who doesn’t have too many instants. Even necros, its impossible to know which marks they are using or when they will swap weapons/shroud (which is where most of their burst comes from, and also lacks a cast time) unless you can predict their every move. At some point, gw2 became a game less about “reacting to animations” and more about “predicting which instant skill your opponent will use”

Warrior has basically always been a class with very strong sustain and high damage, but had the weakness of having more obvious tells. With the current incarnation, very important skills lack truly obvious tells. They also removed the weakness to kiting and blinds quite a bit by giving loads of resistance and stability so that, as a warrior, you can literally ignore everything an opponent can throw at you (physical damage, conditions, soft cc, hard cc) and just press your buttons to kill most players.

Very well said. I 100% agree with you and with OP.

JDjitsu.7895:

To be fair, Power War/Zerker it’s stronger than any of the other A tier professions when played well. It’s barely in the meta if it even is. Though I don’t think any top team plays a War? I like to play Power War in WvW, but I can think of a quite few other Prof I’d rather have or play on my team than one in Conquest. It isn’t useless, but It doesn’t delete players with F1 either.

When you see a Pro try-hard, the last thing you see them on is a Power Warrior. I’m not saying it isn’t powerful, but it’s not close to the strongest bully on the block in Conquest. And I don’t think anything changed for the good recently for Power Warrior. At least a yr? I’m pretty sure if anything it’s only been nerfed since HoT. I think it’s close to the least of pvp’s problems atm.

Edited to add Meteor Shower is 1200 range..Almost 3x the range than Arcing Slice. Though making it 400 I’d agree wouldn’t kill the skill. Any more than that would be too much. I mean, they already killed Rifle.

The irony here is that the best build for warrior right now is carrion GS because the damage and cooldown on Arc Divider is so high/low respectively even the condi build does a massive amount of damage with it, and gets tons of free utility when running Defense.

Skullgrinder and the CC spam with three invulns the best healing in the game from Adrenal Health, massive resistance uptime and extended blocking uptime makes the condi variant just overly-excessive.

Remove the confusion and blind on Skullgrinder, reduce the radius on Arc Divider, put Defy Pain on a 25% threshhold to let the build get bursted, and massively nerf Adrenal Health, and the build becomes much more stable.

DH needs similar treatment with its blocks and heals as well, however.

DeceiverX.8361:

JDjitsu.7895:

To be fair, Power War/Zerker it’s stronger than any of the other A tier professions when played well. It’s barely in the meta if it even is. Though I don’t think any top team plays a War? I like to play Power War in WvW, but I can think of a quite few other Prof I’d rather have or play on my team than one in Conquest. It isn’t useless, but It doesn’t delete players with F1 either.

When you see a Pro try-hard, the last thing you see them on is a Power Warrior. I’m not saying it isn’t powerful, but it’s not close to the strongest bully on the block in Conquest. And I don’t think anything changed for the good recently for Power Warrior. At least a yr? I’m pretty sure if anything it’s only been nerfed since HoT. I think it’s close to the least of pvp’s problems atm.

Edited to add Meteor Shower is 1200 range..Almost 3x the range than Arcing Slice. Though making it 400 I’d agree wouldn’t kill the skill. Any more than that would be too much. I mean, they already killed Rifle.

The irony here is that the best build for warrior right now is carrion GS because the damage and cooldown on Arc Divider is so high/low respectively even the condi build does a massive amount of damage with it, and gets tons of free utility when running Defense.

Skullgrinder and the CC spam with three invulns the best healing in the game from Adrenal Health, massive resistance uptime and extended blocking uptime makes the condi variant just overly-excessive.

Remove the confusion and blind on Skullgrinder, reduce the radius on Arc Divider, put Defy Pain on a 25% threshhold to let the build get bursted, and massively nerf Adrenal Health, and the build becomes much more stable.

DH needs similar treatment with its blocks and heals as well, however.

tbh I’d rather see the daze go than the blind, can also reduce the blind to 2s, cripple to 4s and it would be a lot better balanced. As for Adrenal healing, it’s balanced on core warrior as it takes time to build adrenaline and if you miss your burst at lvl 3 you’re screwed. I think primal bursts should count as a lvl 2 burst skills that way there is a trade off for having more spammable burst.

War here, my feeling is that the class is top tier at dueling, but EASILY neutered in any team engagement. Thieves/necros/guards all bring the blind spam, I’ve been seeing a lot of weakness spam (from eles, I think?) lately too, those two conditions alone can shut down a warrior. Also war doesn’t have “invuln”, Endure Pain does nothing to stop condition damage and Resistance is corruptible/strippable.

In other words, in the current power-weighted meta warrior seems arbitrarily good. Bring the condi and the warriors are going to feel it… even as a dedicated longbow user (i.e. reliable cleansing ire usage) I find necros incredibly difficult. Then consider that the majority of warriors use mace/greatsword atm means they are that much more susceptible to condi when they inevtiably miss that F1 skill.

warrior op? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

sophiewhite.3149:

warrior op? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Yeah like i said before, unless you play a mesmer, ele, thief or necro every other class is OP and skilless cheese, some might argue against the necro portion though :B

vorpal.1497:

War here, my feeling is that the class is top tier at dueling, but EASILY neutered in any team engagement. Thieves/necros/guards all bring the blind spam, I’ve been seeing a lot of weakness spam (from eles, I think?) lately too, those two conditions alone can shut down a warrior. Also war doesn’t have “invuln”, Endure Pain does nothing to stop condition damage and Resistance is corruptible/strippable.

In other words, in the current power-weighted meta warrior seems arbitrarily good. Bring the condi and the warriors are going to feel it… even as a dedicated longbow user (i.e. reliable cleansing ire usage) I find necros incredibly difficult. Then consider that the majority of warriors use mace/greatsword atm means they are that much more susceptible to condi when they inevtiably miss that F1 skill.

I bring plenty of boonstrip. Boonstrip is useless to remove resistance from a warrior because it pulses resistance. If you strip it, it will pulse again in 3 seconds applying more resistance. It pulses 4 times from what I understand. Pulsing boons is meant to counter boonstrip, so I guess it’s working as intended.

Boonstrip will open up some gaps though. So many warriors only use resistance to avoid condi. Once it runs out/pieces are stripped they lose a lot of hp.

I am fine with all of this, provided…

They fix;
The lame f1 on hammer..choose berserker or vanilla. They both stall, have overtly long animations and do little with how much stability is present.

The day one rush, shield bash, stomp animations.

Remove the back ending of damage on greatsword and axe.

Finally fix the terrible placement of skills within trees.

Make a half decent attempt to great diversity. Warriors ulitity skills haven’t change since beta. 95% of warriors all run the exact same thing.

Add some juice back to shouts.

Fix the main issue that anyone who has ever played warrior for more than 6 months knows exactly what upsets and ruins a warriors day completely. They know where the clunk is, they know how to short stop the crits. They are predictable…woefully predictable. For the longest of time the masses have assigned warrior the title of, “lowest skill cap.” Yet here we are discussing yet another warrior nerf thread.

Ironic that the most predictable, animated profession in the game is yet again up for nerf discussions.

Take the primal burst on mace. Build adrenaline. Enter berserk mode. Fire highly animated f1 that can be dodged, evaded or blocked and is 90% predictable, which has no other condition application outside of the primal burst, and nerf the condi on it..so its stun is near useless with break stuns and stability and its power coefficients are bottom tier…and shzamm..you’ve got another underwhelming weapon.

Just play warrior and you’ll have no issue learning what ruins them. If you still do, then try getting passably good with warrior…if that doesn’t work, well the esports nature gw2 wants has highlighted this game is not for you.

^ Seems like someone struck a nerve, now warrior can get thrown on the OP Skilless easy to play profession list :P

Rickster.8752:

The damage is simply too high and too hard to avoid given how tanky and mobile they are. I think a reduction of the f1 on greatsword would be suitable. In addition, i think the defy pain trait is too good.

I think most agree with me on this. Mesmer is also a little too strong.

What a ridiculous post,

Every class in the game has good mobility besides guardian. Every class in the game does insane damage. You are asking to nerf warriors when warriors already have to trait for every DPS option to truly be viable.

Necro has 2 health bars. Guardian has point control skills and renewed focus and shelter if they want it. Mesmer has 2X blocks and distortion and blurred. Thief has multiple shadowsteps and insane damage. Rev in the hands of good players is still a good class though to hard for most of the population to play. Ranger is the easiest class to play since its 75% build.

HOT brought all of this, also asking to nerf warrior when Axe, Hammer, Torch, Sword, Rifle are near useless is whats the problem.

People need to quit making these cry threads about so and so class being OP and ask Anet to balance there game. We shouldnt have these threads about X class, there should be multiple threads about Anet needing to create build diversity and forcing give and take when making builds.

kdaddy.5431:

Rickster.8752:

The damage is simply too high and too hard to avoid given how tanky and mobile they are. I think a reduction of the f1 on greatsword would be suitable. In addition, i think the defy pain trait is too good.

I think most agree with me on this. Mesmer is also a little too strong.

What a ridiculous post,

Every class in the game has good mobility besides guardian. Every class in the game does insane damage. You are asking to nerf warriors when warriors already have to trait for every DPS option to truly be viable.

Necro has 2 health bars. Guardian has point control skills and renewed focus and shelter if they want it. Mesmer has 2X blocks and distortion and blurred. Thief has multiple shadowsteps and insane damage. Rev in the hands of good players is still a good class though to hard for most of the population to play. Ranger is the easiest class to play since its 75% build.

HOT brought all of this, also asking to nerf warrior when Axe, Hammer, Torch, Sword, Rifle are near useless is whats the problem.

People need to quit making these cry threads about so and so class being OP and ask Anet to balance there game. We shouldnt have these threads about X class, there should be multiple threads about Anet needing to create build diversity and forcing give and take when making builds.

I’d argue that every class is pretty much 75% build.

‘Get good’ and ‘L2P’ in gw2 is inclusive of making a good build and having a good set-up.

With regards to Warriors in general, I’d recommend having primal bursts provide just 1 stack of AH due to the spammable nature of it.

I do not think that the current primal burst skills needs to be toned down. You ought to be punished if you allow yourself to get hit by a warrior’s f1. Otherwise, ANET should just rename it to primal STRIKE instead of BURST. It’s called BURST for a good reason.

/facepalm

If we analyze how strong they are vs how easy they are to pick up and master then yes, they are too good. Kinda the same thing with DH, easy classes to master, very forgivable but still really powerful.

Balian.5314:

kdaddy.5431:

Rickster.8752:

The damage is simply too high and too hard to avoid given how tanky and mobile they are. I think a reduction of the f1 on greatsword would be suitable. In addition, i think the defy pain trait is too good.

I think most agree with me on this. Mesmer is also a little too strong.

What a ridiculous post,

Every class in the game has good mobility besides guardian. Every class in the game does insane damage. You are asking to nerf warriors when warriors already have to trait for every DPS option to truly be viable.

Necro has 2 health bars. Guardian has point control skills and renewed focus and shelter if they want it. Mesmer has 2X blocks and distortion and blurred. Thief has multiple shadowsteps and insane damage. Rev in the hands of good players is still a good class though to hard for most of the population to play. Ranger is the easiest class to play since its 75% build.

HOT brought all of this, also asking to nerf warrior when Axe, Hammer, Torch, Sword, Rifle are near useless is whats the problem.

People need to quit making these cry threads about so and so class being OP and ask Anet to balance there game. We shouldnt have these threads about X class, there should be multiple threads about Anet needing to create build diversity and forcing give and take when making builds.

I’d argue that every class is pretty much 75% build.

‘Get good’ and ‘L2P’ in gw2 is inclusive of making a good build and having a good set-up.

With regards to Warriors in general, I’d recommend having primal bursts provide just 1 stack of AH due to the spammable nature of it.

I do not think that the current primal burst skills needs to be toned down. You ought to be punished if you allow yourself to get hit by a warrior’s f1. Otherwise, ANET should just rename it to primal STRIKE instead of BURST. It’s called BURST for a good reason.

/facepalm

Of course builds are now the most important thing since Anet forced every class in to certain builds.

But what i meant for ranger is when traited right and then played right its too perfect.

We are talking perma stability,fury,swiftness, with 2 stun breakers in F5 and a utility skill as well as signet of stone. Then you had pet damage as well as a taunt. With staff and longbow, if the player plays his cards right he stays at a range distance winning most fights.

Ranger/druid also bring great heals to team fights.

Warrior has long cool downs. Warrior is forced to play stances with 60 sec long cool downs. That means that for 50 sec warriors have to be near perfect with everything to win fights.

Necros in games start off as the lets get him but that changes mid game when they potentially have full RS just waiting for you to use a stance.

The OP of this thread is saying that warrior is too strong when he simply needs to get out of 450 range when warrior goes into beserk mode.

Warrior has to play differently then DH which has to play differently then rev which plays differently then thief.

Its why alot of us are pushing for Anet to be better. The ability to play different classes that actually feel different and need different tactics makes GW2 special. So i disagree that warrior healing needs fixed when its the only form of sustain.

The fact Anet went the HOT route for raids/PvE and destroyed WvW and PvP in the process is why this game cant be successful in the ESports scene.

The only thing ridiculous about Warrior is the Resistance uptime it can get.

What I find broken on war is how easily can be burst charged and also that burst skill can be used up to 4times durring single berserk mode and each use (hit) activates t3 adrenal health.

As for me charging burst should need 50% more adrenalin and berserk mode should last half the time.

“Warrior had always high sustain[…]” Are we playing the same game?
Warrior was trash in pvp before adrenal health buff.

If I had to cry op about anything on warrior it would be Bloody Roar/Arc Divider.

If I had to nerf anything it would be the 2 passive stance traits.

Justine.6351:

If I had to cry op about anything on warrior it would be Bloody Roar/Arc Divider.

If I had to nerf anything it would be the 2 passive stance traits.

They should be reduced versions of the original. Guard/DH passives are both higher cd and lesser effect than the original skills.

kdaddy.5431:

Balian.5314:

kdaddy.5431:

Rickster.8752:

The damage is simply too high and too hard to avoid given how tanky and mobile they are. I think a reduction of the f1 on greatsword would be suitable. In addition, i think the defy pain trait is too good.

I think most agree with me on this. Mesmer is also a little too strong.

What a ridiculous post,

Every class in the game has good mobility besides guardian. Every class in the game does insane damage. You are asking to nerf warriors when warriors already have to trait for every DPS option to truly be viable.

Necro has 2 health bars. Guardian has point control skills and renewed focus and shelter if they want it. Mesmer has 2X blocks and distortion and blurred. Thief has multiple shadowsteps and insane damage. Rev in the hands of good players is still a good class though to hard for most of the population to play. Ranger is the easiest class to play since its 75% build.

HOT brought all of this, also asking to nerf warrior when Axe, Hammer, Torch, Sword, Rifle are near useless is whats the problem.

People need to quit making these cry threads about so and so class being OP and ask Anet to balance there game. We shouldnt have these threads about X class, there should be multiple threads about Anet needing to create build diversity and forcing give and take when making builds.

I’d argue that every class is pretty much 75% build.

‘Get good’ and ‘L2P’ in gw2 is inclusive of making a good build and having a good set-up.

With regards to Warriors in general, I’d recommend having primal bursts provide just 1 stack of AH due to the spammable nature of it.

I do not think that the current primal burst skills needs to be toned down. You ought to be punished if you allow yourself to get hit by a warrior’s f1. Otherwise, ANET should just rename it to primal STRIKE instead of BURST. It’s called BURST for a good reason.

/facepalm

Of course builds are now the most important thing since Anet forced every class in to certain builds.

But what i meant for ranger is when traited right and then played right its too perfect.

We are talking perma stability,fury,swiftness, with 2 stun breakers in F5 and a utility skill as well as signet of stone. Then you had pet damage as well as a taunt. With staff and longbow, if the player plays his cards right he stays at a range distance winning most fights.

Ranger/druid also bring great heals to team fights.

Warrior has long cool downs. Warrior is forced to play stances with 60 sec long cool downs. That means that for 50 sec warriors have to be near perfect with everything to win fights.

Necros in games start off as the lets get him but that changes mid game when they potentially have full RS just waiting for you to use a stance.

The OP of this thread is saying that warrior is too strong when he simply needs to get out of 450 range when warrior goes into beserk mode.

Warrior has to play differently then DH which has to play differently then rev which plays differently then thief.

Its why alot of us are pushing for Anet to be better. The ability to play different classes that actually feel different and need different tactics makes GW2 special. So i disagree that warrior healing needs fixed when its the only form of sustain.

The fact Anet went the HOT route for raids/PvE and destroyed WvW and PvP in the process is why this game cant be successful in the ESports scene.

I do agree that there isn’t much build variety since HoT.

Your comparison between rangers n warriors however is biased. I’m assuming you main a warrior, hence your ‘the grass is greener on the other side’ comparison vs rangers.

A warrior will envy the kiting potential (don’t forget Nike warrior style) and burst healing of a ranger. Likewise a ranger will envy the damage and immense passive + active defense capabilities of a warrior.

You speak of Warriors in such a pale light. What you failed to include about warriors is the very essence of warriors itself, damage/burst. In a PvP setting, this equates to pressure. A warrior’s survivalbility is dependent on the pressure they are able to dish out, making opponents play more defensively and effectively mitigating damage in this manner.

My bottom line is, let’s be more impartial if we are to make comparisons and descriptions amongst the different classes.

Every class have something to offer, it all boils down to what you are hoping to achieve, knowing each individual class’s capabilities and what they excel at.

Rank 80
Champ Legionnaire
Champ Hunter
S1, S2, S3 legend
These don’t mean much, however, they imply having a decent understanding on these 2 classes in competitive play.

Astray.5802:

“Warrior had always high sustain[…]” Are we playing the same game?
Warrior was trash in pvp before adrenal health buff.

You obviously didn’t play before HoT, maybe do some research (shoutbow anyone?)

Justine.6351:

If I had to cry op about anything on warrior it would be Bloody Roar/Arc Divider.

If I had to nerf anything it would be the 2 passive stance traits.

This ^^. Also Krait runes 6th bonus should be applied on hit, not just aoe that completely ignores dodges and LoS.

I honestly don’t understand how can people bring up weakness or blind as argument as war is sitting in resistance or blocks or in endure pain most of the time. CC is not really an option as…. they also have pulsing stab. The window where you can actually do damage to the war w/o getting instantly murdered by him is stupidly small and even if you did some damage to them, they will just regen it all back really quick during their just another block/endure pain/resistance frame. It is not like warrior is just sitting afk there doing nothing – the damage pressure from warrior is insane w/o loss of suvivability.
The only successful way to kill war is to have thief and necro train him at the same time – it is 2 players vs 1….. The only downside war has atm is obviously lack of team support, lack of AoE beside 1 shot arc and lack of teleports (not that they need it due to being point fighter).

Im speaking about is as someone who is looking at the total picture. And im not shy or ashamed so i will do the same thing. S1/2/3 Legend, Gold3 atm but was as high as top 150 in this current leader board with a Plat 2 rating. Someone who was ranked in the old old leader board for team and solo que.

Warrior is not as useful as other classes.In a 5 vs 5 no matter if class stacking is allowed or not you wont typically need a warrior. It doesnt give team healing, team boons, it has poor sustain outside of its 2 stances.
This thread is is suggesting to taking away the very last thing warrior has to even be usable in PvP.My talking about ranger was because at low levels it works and high levels it works. You cant say the same thing for the rest of the classes.

Im sorry there are bad players getting instantly bursted to warriors because they dont know what to look for which will happen no matter what class they are facing.

I agree with that last statement. I do not think warriors are ‘too strong’ either.

Again, there is failure to highlight the offensive pressure a warrior can bring, only team healing and team boons was highlighted. As if that’s all that counts in PvP. If team healing and team boons is everything PvP is about, who’s gonna force out the heals? Whose gonna force out the boons (prot, stab in mind)?

Warrior works in low levels, it works in high levels as well. Every class can work. Boils down to knowing the various class mechanics, overall team comp, rotations and player skills.

Let’s face it, aside to ele, nec and guards can we really say the remaining classes are a need? Of course I’m not talking about top tier ESL play, this is in reference to general ranked PvP, taking into account only solo/duo queue is allowed now and of course, class stacking.

kdaddy.5431:

Im speaking about is as someone who is looking at the total picture. And im not shy or ashamed so i will do the same thing. S1/2/3 Legend, Gold3 atm but was as high as top 150 in this current leader board with a Plat 2 rating. Someone who was ranked in the old old leader board for team and solo que.

Warrior is not as useful as other classes.In a 5 vs 5 no matter if class stacking is allowed or not you wont typically need a warrior. It doesnt give team healing, team boons, it has poor sustain outside of its 2 stances.
This thread is is suggesting to taking away the very last thing warrior has to even be usable in PvP.My talking about ranger was because at low levels it works and high levels it works. You cant say the same thing for the rest of the classes.

Im sorry there are bad players getting instantly bursted to warriors because they dont know what to look for which will happen no matter what class they are facing.

They can be kited, which lowers their sustain, but the problem a lot of us have with warriors is the amount of -passives- they have. Having an immunity to dmg on a toggled ability is 100% fine imo, but having it on a passive that can then be chained with the same exact ability, AND then shield block which reflects if your build has it.

It’s too much.

If they just get rid of the passive endure pain all together, it would still be a strong team fighting class, but not able to stand in zergs with the enemy unable to do anything to them for 30 seconds (ish). That’s simply too much.

Look at necros, they are the “beat the kitten out of this because they cant do anything about it” and get trained down all the time. “focus necro” is the first thing i see in a match most times.

DH on the other hand.. eh, dmg is too high for the amount of survivability tools they have at their disposal. How to fix them? idk, maybe lower dmg on traps, or change them to utility only.

I concur; if you wanted to play on a undignifying way, play as a Warrior. Nothing against on his passive capabilities as long as being productive in team scenario though required team cooperation which i agree that warrior excel the most.

Kahrgan.7401:

If they just get rid of the passive endure pain all together, it would still be a strong team fighting class, but not able to stand in zergs with the enemy unable to do anything to them for 30 seconds (ish). That’s simply too much.

A note for this.

I don’t trust you to make good judgements on the state of this class if you think that endure pain allows warriors to stand in zergs for 30 seconds (ish) without having anything happen to them. Even if that’s hyperbole, you’re sending the wrong message.

It’s ten seconds if you take both traits, and that doesn’t prevent condition damage. Critique is fine, but make sure you get the numbers right so you can make proper suggestions for downscaling, instead of just moving for gutting intrinsic parts of the class. Warriors -just- got out of the “unviable” tier with the tweaks to berserker, and even now they still have a considerable struggle with duels because they have active blocks and wide, sweeping animations that make them easy to dodge and predict. They have no ports, blinks, steps, or stealth to add unpredictability to their game, so being able to just grit their teeth and shrug off damage for a couple of seconds is the solution to that (And, for that matter, being able to do any of the aforementioned would be a thematic conflict.)

Necros get focused, yes, but their reaper spec is beginning to address this and turn them into on point brawlers as well. If you’d like to avoid that focus altogether, I’d suggest pushing for added mobility at the cost of life force build rate or something to that effect. The fact that necros get focused is due to the nature of their class specifically, not because “they can’t do anything about it.”

The biggest problems I have with Warrior’s is with Adrenal Health lasting too long, and Mace and GS Berserk Mode F1 skills being too strong.

Adrenal Health I think would be better balanced if it was a short duration (maybe 5 seconds) and healed for more per bar of adrenaline spent. It was OP not because of the amount of healing per second it gave but because it lasted 15 seconds just from hitting a Primal Burst skill. Making it a shorter duration will be more punishing if you miss a burst skill, and it’ll reduce the healing from a Warrior running away.

Mace Primal Burst does far too much. It’s a lot like Surge of the Mist. One skill just shouldn’t do so much all at once. Skull Grinder cripples, blinds, confuses, bleeds, blasts, surges forward (no leap finisher thank God), and dazes, and does some mean power damage in addition to being a condition damage attack too. All this is on a 2.5 second CD (traited). Something needs to go. Nothing should blind and daze at the same time, nothing should apply 4 stacks of confusion and bleeding while also doing powerful power damage at the same time, and why does it blast? There’s nothing about the skill that explodes. It actually leaps more than explodes. So, my suggestions for the skill:

- Remove either the blind or the daze.
- Reduce the power damage significantly or remove either confusion or bleeding. I suggest confusion if you remove the daze.
- Remove the blast finisher. Do no add a leap finisher unless you do both the previous points
- Keep the crippling.

GS Primal Burst does more damage below 50% than the regular Burst form. The biggest issue with this skill isn’t that though. It’s the fact that it hits so far away from the Warrior, while also critting for potentially 25-50% of someone’s hp, depending on the player. If someone’s trying to carefully keep out of range, they shouldn’t be hit so hard from so far way. GS has other skills to get close, but we don’t need use that now. All we need to is press F1 and hit 5 things in a 450 radius. So, my suggestions are:

- Reduce the range to 240 radius.
- Reduce its damage to something between the Burst version and the Primal Burst version

After all this, ditch the Endure Pain auto proc trait and replace it with something that takes skill. Warriors were only weak at the start of HoT because everything else was so much more ridiculously OP. You’ve nerfed most of the other professions nicely, but you also over buffed Warrior’s sustain, and with defence nerfs to other professions, the true colours of GS and Mace Primal Burst skills are showing. Mace needs a harsh nerf, GS needs a range reduction, Adrenal Health needs a duration reduction and auto procs from every profession need to be removed.

Kahrgan.7401:

kdaddy.5431:

Im speaking about is as someone who is looking at the total picture. And im not shy or ashamed so i will do the same thing. S1/2/3 Legend, Gold3 atm but was as high as top 150 in this current leader board with a Plat 2 rating. Someone who was ranked in the old old leader board for team and solo que.

Warrior is not as useful as other classes.In a 5 vs 5 no matter if class stacking is allowed or not you wont typically need a warrior. It doesnt give team healing, team boons, it has poor sustain outside of its 2 stances.
This thread is is suggesting to taking away the very last thing warrior has to even be usable in PvP.My talking about ranger was because at low levels it works and high levels it works. You cant say the same thing for the rest of the classes.

Im sorry there are bad players getting instantly bursted to warriors because they dont know what to look for which will happen no matter what class they are facing.

They can be kited, which lowers their sustain, but the problem a lot of us have with warriors is the amount of -passives- they have. Having an immunity to dmg on a toggled ability is 100% fine imo, but having it on a passive that can then be chained with the same exact ability, AND then shield block which reflects if your build has it.

It’s too much.

If they just get rid of the passive endure pain all together, it would still be a strong team fighting class, but not able to stand in zergs with the enemy unable to do anything to them for 30 seconds (ish). That’s simply too much.

Look at necros, they are the “beat the kitten out of this because they cant do anything about it” and get trained down all the time. “focus necro” is the first thing i see in a match most times.

DH on the other hand.. eh, dmg is too high for the amount of survivability tools they have at their disposal. How to fix them? idk, maybe lower dmg on traps, or change them to utility only.

That is incorrect, warrior doesnt survive without the 2nd endure the pain. As someone who tried to play without defense in a few ranked matches it didnt go well.

Also a big reason i brought up rangers is because it does everything well. I have a pic here.

Each team had a ele warrior and thief.

What happened was simply there was 3 support character on each side. All this complaining about warriors DPS is silly.

A combination of 2 classes stacking protection, regen, heals with invulnerability negates alot of damage what warrior does.

Once again im arguing big picture. Let me point out in 1 vs 1 warriors will lose to mesmers, rangers, DH in 1 vs 1 at equal levels and if the warrior doesnt take X utility skill for that 1 vs 1.

Also warrior struggles in team fights because once again, you only have 10 sec of survivability.

Of course in solo/duo warrior can bring problems when you have people running dopey builds, players at different skill levels facing each other not knowing how to play it and all your complaints can be said about every single class in the game.

I main Warrior in WvW but for PvP a DH has it much easier than warrior. I can play both very well and I still prefer to use a DH in pvp because its just so much better. (easier to win with)

There are other classes to nerf before warrior IMO.

Zintrothen.1056:

The biggest problems I have with Warrior’s is with Adrenal Health lasting too long, and Mace and GS Berserk Mode F1 skills being too strong.

Adrenal Health I think would be better balanced if it was a short duration (maybe 5 seconds) and healed for more per bar of adrenaline spent. It was OP not because of the amount of healing per second it gave but because it lasted 15 seconds just from hitting a Primal Burst skill. Making it a shorter duration will be more punishing if you miss a burst skill, and it’ll reduce the healing from a Warrior running away.

Why do warriors need to be punished -more- for whiffing burst?
That being said: fine, I guess? We already got gutted a long time ago from losing adren on whiff, this won’t be much different as most of the warriors have adapted and learned methods to set up burst. I think it’s needless, but that may be because I play warrior.

Mace Primal Burst does far too much. It’s a lot like Surge of the Mist. One skill just shouldn’t do so much all at once. Skull Grinder cripples, blinds, confuses, bleeds, blasts, surges forward (no leap finisher thank God), and dazes, and does some mean power damage in addition to being a condition damage attack too. All this is on a 2.5 second CD (traited). Something needs to go. Nothing should blind and daze at the same time, nothing should apply 4 stacks of confusion and bleeding while also doing powerful power damage at the same time, and why does it blast? There’s nothing about the skill that explodes. It actually leaps more than explodes. So, my suggestions for the skill:

- Remove either the blind or the daze.
- Reduce the power damage significantly or remove either confusion or bleeding. I suggest confusion if you remove the daze.
- Remove the blast finisher. Do no add a leap finisher unless you do both the previous points
- Keep the crippling.

Fine with removing Either blind or Daze. *
*Generally against removing the confusion/bleeding as this would affect condi builds.
Leap might be fine. thinking about that.

GS Primal Burst does more damage below 50% than the regular Burst form. The biggest issue with this skill isn’t that though. It’s the fact that it hits so far away from the Warrior, while also critting for potentially 25-50% of someone’s hp, depending on the player. If someone’s trying to carefully keep out of range, they shouldn’t be hit so hard from so far way. GS has other skills to get close, but we don’t need use that now. All we need to is press F1 and hit 5 things in a 450 radius. So, my suggestions are:

- Reduce the range to 240 radius.
- Reduce its damage to something between the Burst version and the Primal Burst version

Range reduction is fine (not agreeing with 240 as acceptable), but DPS is not. Either you get punished for facetanking an arc divider or you evade or block it. Arc divider has a range increase to make connecting with it easier with GS. It would be too steep a drop to scale back both of those at the same time, IMO.

Actually, no to all of this. Arc divider sacrifices DPS for range, so I disagree with any change to dial that back at this time.

After all this, ditch the Endure Pain auto proc trait and replace it with something that takes skill.

Like? Examples please.

kdaddy.5431:

Kahrgan.7401:

kdaddy.5431:

Im speaking about is as someone who is looking at the total picture. And im not shy or ashamed so i will do the same thing. S1/2/3 Legend, Gold3 atm but was as high as top 150 in this current leader board with a Plat 2 rating. Someone who was ranked in the old old leader board for team and solo que.

Warrior is not as useful as other classes.In a 5 vs 5 no matter if class stacking is allowed or not you wont typically need a warrior. It doesnt give team healing, team boons, it has poor sustain outside of its 2 stances.
This thread is is suggesting to taking away the very last thing warrior has to even be usable in PvP.My talking about ranger was because at low levels it works and high levels it works. You cant say the same thing for the rest of the classes.

Im sorry there are bad players getting instantly bursted to warriors because they dont know what to look for which will happen no matter what class they are facing.

They can be kited, which lowers their sustain, but the problem a lot of us have with warriors is the amount of -passives- they have. Having an immunity to dmg on a toggled ability is 100% fine imo, but having it on a passive that can then be chained with the same exact ability, AND then shield block which reflects if your build has it.

It’s too much.

If they just get rid of the passive endure pain all together, it would still be a strong team fighting class, but not able to stand in zergs with the enemy unable to do anything to them for 30 seconds (ish). That’s simply too much.

Look at necros, they are the “beat the kitten out of this because they cant do anything about it” and get trained down all the time. “focus necro” is the first thing i see in a match most times.

DH on the other hand.. eh, dmg is too high for the amount of survivability tools they have at their disposal. How to fix them? idk, maybe lower dmg on traps, or change them to utility only.

That is incorrect, warrior doesnt survive without the 2nd endure the pain. As someone who tried to play without defense in a few ranked matches it didnt go well.

Also a big reason i brought up rangers is because it does everything well. I have a pic here.

Each team had a ele warrior and thief.

What happened was simply there was 3 support character on each side. All this complaining about warriors DPS is silly.

A combination of 2 classes stacking protection, regen, heals with invulnerability negates alot of damage what warrior does.

Once again im arguing big picture. Let me point out in 1 vs 1 warriors will lose to mesmers, rangers, DH in 1 vs 1 at equal levels and if the warrior doesnt take X utility skill for that 1 vs 1.

Also warrior struggles in team fights because once again, you only have 10 sec of survivability.

Of course in solo/duo warrior can bring problems when you have people running dopey builds, players at different skill levels facing each other not knowing how to play it and all your complaints can be said about every single class in the game.

Warriors can ‘do everything well’ too. Ur point? Do you see other classes running zerker ammy these days as meta? Warrs can, and for a good reason.

Again, I do not think warriors are ‘too strong’. Every class has something to bring to the table as I’ve already mentioned.

If ur talking bout a pvp perspective, you 1v1 either to decap and cap or to contest, that means fighting on point. Warr vs Ranger 1v1, no way can the ranger win on point in equal levels of play, That fight is simply not worth the time if ur the person aiming to decap said point. With that being said, in equal levels of play, a ranger will spend more time attempting to decap said point from a warrior as compared to warr decapping ranger.

Why? Because warriors are better for fighting on point vs rangers. Stop bringing in other classes as comparisons when they obviously fulfil different roles. Warriors are effective bruisers and good +1 despite running zerker ammy. Since the removal of cele and cleric ammy, no other class save warriors and scrappers can be as effective as a bruiser.

You talk about having to pick X utility for certain fights on warr, isn’t that the same for rangers? There’s a reason why people run SoS and SoR along with your so called perma stability and fury RAO. It’s for their survival, not to create a window of ‘Super Saiyan godlike mode’ and going ham with their burst skills coz as rangers we can’t do half of the damage you do in this meta.

So are you gonna make more ‘smart’ comparisons? As much as I wanna be neutral, ur arguments and constant comparison of classes meant to fulfil different roles are forcing me to highlight more points on warrior which will eventually fall more in line with OP.

Balian.5314:

coz as rangers we can’t do half of the damage you do in this meta.

That’s cos your Pet does all the damage for you while you can spec tanky :P

only half joking

Spartacus.3192:

only half joking

That Bristleback isn’t joking.

Balian.5314:

So are you gonna make more ‘smart’ comparisons? As much as I wanna be neutral, ur arguments and constant comparison of classes meant to fulfil different roles are forcing me to highlight more points on warrior which will eventually fall more in line with OP.

When you’re done with that, we can talk about druid.

Azure The Heartless.3261:

Spartacus.3192:

only half joking

That Bristleback isn’t joking.

The shield stance and double Endure pain ain’t joking either, also what happened to dodge?

Balian.5314:

So are you gonna make more ‘smart’ comparisons? As much as I wanna be neutral, ur arguments and constant comparison of classes meant to fulfil different roles are forcing me to highlight more points on warrior which will eventually fall more in line with OP.

When you’re done with that, we can talk about druid.

This thread ain’t done bashing warriors yet
If Druid gets nerfed again I guess it’s back to super saiyan warrior again for me~

Balian.5314:

Azure The Heartless.3261:

Spartacus.3192:

only half joking

That Bristleback isn’t joking.

The shield stance and double Endure pain ain’t joking either, also what happened to dodge?

Balian.5314:

So are you gonna make more ‘smart’ comparisons? As much as I wanna be neutral, ur arguments and constant comparison of classes meant to fulfil different roles are forcing me to highlight more points on warrior which will eventually fall more in line with OP.

When you’re done with that, we can talk about druid.

This thread ain’t done bashing warriors yet
If Druid gets nerfed again I guess it’s back to super saiyan warrior again for me~

RE: Bolded point.:

I’d love to have druid heals and SOS instead of 10 seconds of 0 direct damage. Idunno, what -did- happen to dodge? :y
(also disregarding shield stance qualm because shame on you for bashing the only active block war has that doesn’t require you take mace while also bashing its passive mitigation.)

RE: Second Point
Lol touche

Azure The Heartless.3261:

Balian.5314:

Azure The Heartless.3261:

Spartacus.3192:

only half joking

That Bristleback isn’t joking.

The shield stance and double Endure pain ain’t joking either, also what happened to dodge?

Balian.5314:

So are you gonna make more ‘smart’ comparisons? As much as I wanna be neutral, ur arguments and constant comparison of classes meant to fulfil different roles are forcing me to highlight more points on warrior which will eventually fall more in line with OP.

When you’re done with that, we can talk about druid.

This thread ain’t done bashing warriors yet
If Druid gets nerfed again I guess it’s back to super saiyan warrior again for me~

Lol touche

<3

Anyway, did you know u can shield stance trough BB’s burst?
Assuming you have only 1 stack of AH up, u get healed for 1593hp in that 3secs. But of course you can dodge, dodge, or pop endure pain and solely focus on DPSing and CCing the ranger.

Did you also know a warrior’s AA on GS does almost 3x the damage vs Druid staff AA? Or that Druid staff AA hits for 240 dmg (mender/paladin with dolyak runes) while a warrior’s healing signet alone heals for 382hp/s (while running zerker/marauder ammy).

Warrior vs Ranger, just dodge pet burst coz AH + SoR outheals the ranger’s personal dps.

Who do you think has higher crit chance? The Warrior or the Ranger? “But you have CA heals!”, mace f1, mace 3, shield 4 and headbutt. “Oh no! HP low!”, no problem! Pop utility Endure pain when at 60% hp, heal urself by 2124 by the time it’s over (assuming just ONE AH stack). Assuming it ain’t enough (which is impossible when 1v1 vs ranger) auto Endure pain at 50% and regen for another 2124, all the while going yolo on the ranger.

Numbers from build editor. And before we talk about SS, here’s what you can do; dodge, dodge, shield stance, Endure pain, GS #3.

But… who are we trying to kid?! 1 stack of AH?! Naaaaaaaaaah~

My point? Before someone decided to ‘imply’ that my current main is OP, I did not in anyway said Warrs are OP. So let’s stop crying cheese

Balian.5314:

Azure The Heartless.3261:

Balian.5314:

Azure The Heartless.3261:

Spartacus.3192:

only half joking

That Bristleback isn’t joking.

The shield stance and double Endure pain ain’t joking either, also what happened to dodge?

Balian.5314:

So are you gonna make more ‘smart’ comparisons? As much as I wanna be neutral, ur arguments and constant comparison of classes meant to fulfil different roles are forcing me to highlight more points on warrior which will eventually fall more in line with OP.

When you’re done with that, we can talk about druid.

This thread ain’t done bashing warriors yet
If Druid gets nerfed again I guess it’s back to super saiyan warrior again for me~

Lol touche

<3

Anyway, did you know u can shield stance trough BB’s burst?
Assuming you have only 1 stack of AH up, u get healed for 1593hp in that 3secs. But of course you can dodge, dodge, or pop endure pain and solely focus on DPSing and CCing the ranger.

Did you also know a warrior’s AA on GS does almost 3x the damage vs Druid staff AA? Or that Druid staff AA hits for 240 dmg (mender/paladin with dolyak runes) while a warrior’s healing signet alone heals for 382hp/s (while running zerker/marauder ammy).

Warrior vs Ranger, just dodge pet burst coz AH + SoR outheals the ranger’s personal dps.

Who do you think has higher crit chance? The Warrior or the Ranger? “But you have CA heals!”, mace f1, mace 3, shield 4 and headbutt. “Oh no! HP low!”, no problem! Pop utility Endure pain when at 60% hp, heal urself by 2124 by the time it’s over (assuming just ONE AH stack). Assuming it ain’t enough (which is impossible when 1v1 vs ranger) auto Endure pain at 50% and regen for another 2124, all the while going yolo on the ranger.

Numbers from build editor. And before we talk about SS, here’s what you can do; dodge, dodge, shield stance, Endure pain, GS #3.

But… who are we trying to kid?! 1 stack of AH?! Naaaaaaaaaah~

My point? Before someone decided to ‘imply’ that my current main is OP, I did not in anyway said Warrs are OP. So let’s stop crying cheese

I’m not crying cheese, I’m just antagonizing you. :y Only a little though. Druids are healbots (There’s no way you can convince me that a sane druid is going to stay in the range of a stun with staff as an option) but I still respect them and think they require skill and technique to play. I actually think that about every class, with some skills rather than mechanics needing tweaking.

(I’m not going to start whining (more) about the range on staff or SS I promise)

Azure The Heartless.3261:

Balian.5314:

Azure The Heartless.3261:

Balian.5314:

Azure The Heartless.3261:

Spartacus.3192:

only half joking

That Bristleback isn’t joking.

The shield stance and double Endure pain ain’t joking either, also what happened to dodge?

Balian.5314:

So are you gonna make more ‘smart’ comparisons? As much as I wanna be neutral, ur arguments and constant comparison of classes meant to fulfil different roles are forcing me to highlight more points on warrior which will eventually fall more in line with OP.

When you’re done with that, we can talk about druid.

This thread ain’t done bashing warriors yet
If Druid gets nerfed again I guess it’s back to super saiyan warrior again for me~

Lol touche

<3

Anyway, did you know u can shield stance trough BB’s burst?
Assuming you have only 1 stack of AH up, u get healed for 1593hp in that 3secs. But of course you can dodge, dodge, or pop endure pain and solely focus on DPSing and CCing the ranger.

Did you also know a warrior’s AA on GS does almost 3x the damage vs Druid staff AA? Or that Druid staff AA hits for 240 dmg (mender/paladin with dolyak runes) while a warrior’s healing signet alone heals for 382hp/s (while running zerker/marauder ammy).

Warrior vs Ranger, just dodge pet burst coz AH + SoR outheals the ranger’s personal dps.

Who do you think has higher crit chance? The Warrior or the Ranger? “But you have CA heals!”, mace f1, mace 3, shield 4 and headbutt. “Oh no! HP low!”, no problem! Pop utility Endure pain when at 60% hp, heal urself by 2124 by the time it’s over (assuming just ONE AH stack). Assuming it ain’t enough (which is impossible when 1v1 vs ranger) auto Endure pain at 50% and regen for another 2124, all the while going yolo on the ranger.

Numbers from build editor. And before we talk about SS, here’s what you can do; dodge, dodge, shield stance, Endure pain, GS #3.

But… who are we trying to kid?! 1 stack of AH?! Naaaaaaaaaah~

My point? Before someone decided to ‘imply’ that my current main is OP, I did not in anyway said Warrs are OP. So let’s stop crying cheese

I’m not crying cheese, I’m just antagonizing you. :y Only a little though. Druids are healbots (There’s no way you can convince me that a sane druid is going to stay in the range of a stun with staff as an option) but I still respect them and think they require skill and technique to play. I actually think that about every class, with some skills rather than mechanics needing tweaking.

(I’m not going to start whining (more) about the range on staff or SS I promise)

Exactly my point! Different classes, different roles. Staying on point vs warr is suicide.

For OP it’s a L2P issue. There’s no 1 class they can beat everything in pvp, not with the current meta. Don’t go into a fight u know you will lose.

And to think just a year ago people were harassing warrior mains to change their classes before a match even started.

Kuya.6495:

And to think just a year ago people were harassing warrior mains to change their classes before a match even started.

This, lmao.

Shoehorned into Hambow made me cry

Rickster.8752:

The damage is simply too high and too hard to avoid given how tanky and mobile they are. I think a reduction of the f1 on greatsword would be suitable. In addition, i think the defy pain trait is too good.

I think most agree with me on this. Mesmer is also a little too strong.

Warrior is OP HAHAHAHA. I’ve seen it all now.