Guild Wars 2

Warriors don’t have the survivability necessary to be competitive in SPvP…

Dogged March is a consolation prize in the contest of PvP viability for this class, and unless there are drastic changes it’s going to continue being a problem.

I understand other classes have problems, and certain classes need to be toned down as well, but with the current Meta, Warriors are almost forced to have 2 utilities constant across all of their build’s; Endure Pain & Bull’s Charge. Without these two abilities we have little in the way of staying in a fight.

Other classes have escape mechanisms which give them breathing room, such as stealth, clones, swiftness or something as simple as access to Protection boons.

As it stands, Warrior’s have Health & Armor in their favor and it’s just not enough considering the amount of abilities which can negate our damage.

I propose that Warrior’s get access to some form of ability to apply protection through traits. I would suggest Regeneration also, but this boon does little to no healing in the grand scheme of things and does nothing against other classes burst builds, which also makes me curious why there is even a cooldown to Dogged March’s regenerative effect at all.

The class needs to be looked at in play, not just on paper.

Thanks for your time and consideration.

I don’t play Warrior but they can be a serious pain in the neck to squishy classes like the Mesmer. If the Warrior singles me out without me noticing (in a team fight for example), I don’t stand a chance against that burst. The same goes for low-vitality Guardians.

You could argue that that isn’t the role the warrior should fill. At the moment the warrior needs to be played like a thief but without stealth.

I have also seen a few good hammer warriors but I really don’t know what’s up with the other warrior weapons.

The problem is we have no way to negate damage while everyone can negate the warriors damage.

Warrior’s Have:

- 1 Blind on Longbow (terrible PvP weapon)
- Retaliation Trait
- 1 Reflection Trait, which also forces us to use shield to utilize it.
- Several Weakness secondary effects on weapons, most requiring melee range to apply and short duration.
- Dodging

Other classes Negate our damage as well as these secondary effect with:
- Reliable Vigor activates.
- Blind
- Aegis
- Protection
- Perma-Swiftness
- Confusion Stun
- Ranged Interrupts

None of which we have access to.

The biggest Reasons why Warrior aren’t played that often are:

- The good Combo’s, the Synergies between Weapon-Sets, the Utilities on certain Weapon-Sets etc. make many Warrior-Builds Melee-only.

- Most of the current Maps severely favour Ranged-classes with hard to reach places, long ways to get to them in general and often the targets you would want to hit are behind the Guardian, which can easily make the War almost useless with his CC alone.

- Most Warrior-builds, work best in Teamfights, but that’s exactly when the above mentioned factors kick in really hard: Warrior needs better Gapclosers, CC and more and easily accessible Stability to work in the current Meta and on the current Maps.

“Drastic” is a bit of an overstatement, but a buff is certainly still in order.

What if:

Warrior’s Sprint → Incraese to 25% IMS when wielding Melee Weapon in MH (increase from 10%), Possibly even do it like necro and make it 15% MH 10% OH melee weapon.

Mending → Removes 3 conditions (increase from 2) and grants regeneration for 4s

“Shake it Off” → Cures 2 conditions (increase from 1)

All of these together might be a bit too much of a buff for Warrior, but basically it would allow Warrior to chase down kiters more effectively, and improve their condition cleansing ability which is currently abysmal, while making some traits and skills that are currently kind of “meh” and make them really solid options.

Myrmidian Eudoros.4671:

“Drastic” is a bit of an overstatement, but a buff is certainly still in order.

What if:

Warrior’s Sprint -> Incraese to 25% IMS when wielding Melee Weapon in MH (increase from 10%), Possibly even do it like necro and make it 15% MH 10% OH melee weapon.

Mending -> Removes 3 conditions (increase from 2) and grants regeneration for 4s

“Shake it Off” -> Cures 2 conditions (increase from 1)

All of these together might be a bit too much of a buff for Warrior, but basically it would allow Warrior to chase down kiters more effectively, and improve their condition cleansing ability which is currently abysmal, while making some traits and skills that are currently kind of “meh” and make them really solid options.

I like the Ideas, but it will still be way too easy to avoid Warriors on most Maps, because of the layout of the Nodes.

In the current Meta, it really begins to show that most teams don’t wanna run a Melee-class that isn’t a Tank that needs to be on the Point. Why would you choose a Melee-(only)-DD that can’t reach half the enemy Team?

Kiting actually isn’t even a good Word to describe why the War is so bad as a Melee-sustain-DD, because on most Maps, kiting isn’t even possible, it’s just that the layout of the Map make the backline often extremely hard to reach.

Just take Foefire for example: I’m sure ppl could come up with very decen’t Warrior-Teamfight-builds for this Map, but why practice a build you can only play on 1 Map?

PowerBottom.5796:

Kiting actually isn’t even a good Word to describe why the War is so bad as a Melee-sustain-DD, because on most Maps, kiting isn’t even possible, it’s just that the layout of the Map make the backline often extremely hard to reach.

Just take Foefire for example: I’m sure ppl could come up with very decen’t Warrior-Teamfight-builds for this Map, but why practice a build you can only play on 1 Map?

Fair point well made. Add a Z-axis teleport either on Long Bow (#4 is a good spot) or Rifle (#5 makes sense. A knockback on that weapon doesn’t make lots of sense for War) with a decently long cooldown. This change in addition to the above would make Warrior a terror.

Also, the warrior needs changes in their weapons & traits, not so much in their utility skills, although some improvements to existing utilities would be nice. The signet buff’s were pretty good start.

I’ll take a wild guess here and say, it is about a build consisting of greatsword + axe/shield.
Traits for maximum greatsword damage.
Most likely zerger amulet.

The elementalist equivalent is a staff ele running 20 or even 30 fire, 30 air and whatever is left in arcana with zerger amulet.
Guess what, that build will just explode.
Can it work? Yes, it can. Will it survive against competent enemies who will attack them? Most likely not.
Warriors can go a route, where they rival eles group support, if you go for shouts and warhorn, while they can maintain a good sustained damage and movement speed, yet warriors refuse to go this for no reason whatsoever.
Every class can run a zerger build to some degree, but not all classes are equally good at this. You need alot of survivability from your class mechanics, which warriors just don’t have. But warriors can go other routes. People just have to try different approaches.

Warriors and thieves need Deep Wound.

My ideas of what need the warrior class.:
-rework on weapon skill to provide less damage but better secondary effects
-improve general healing.
-our acces to savingbutt boons is inexistent. No protection. No reliable source of regen and retal. Vigor is meh. This make us the worst bunkers.
-passive condition removals: its not possible to have to force eqipment to get nice condi remov. Where in particolar movement impairments drastycally cuts off our mobility and ability to deal meele damage.

I think that is not possible in a game where balance is the KEYWORD warrior since release (9 months!!!) are still today in this situation.

Come on ANet work on it. Flame n frost or southsun pvescrubs events are done now think something fast on pvp warrior. Come on. I ask please

Varonth.5830:

I’ll take a wild guess here and say, it is about a build consisting of greatsword + axe/shield.
Traits for maximum greatsword damage.
Most likely zerger amulet.

I havent used Greatsword in months, we all know how much a 1 trick pony that is, and it’s as easily negated as a HS spamming Thief, if not more.

I play Hammer / Rifle for the most part, sometimes Axe/Mace for a change of pace, but the build I am running is still lackluster in staying power.

Myrmidian Eudoros.4671:

“Drastic” is a bit of an overstatement, but a buff is certainly still in order.

What if:

Warrior’s Sprint -> Incraese to 25% IMS when wielding Melee Weapon in MH (increase from 10%), Possibly even do it like necro and make it 15% MH 10% OH melee weapon.

Mending -> Removes 3 conditions (increase from 2) and grants regeneration for 4s

“Shake it Off” -> Cures 2 conditions (increase from 1)

All of these together might be a bit too much of a buff for Warrior, but basically it would allow Warrior to chase down kiters more effectively, and improve their condition cleansing ability which is currently abysmal, while making some traits and skills that are currently kind of “meh” and make them really solid options.

I honestly think this in itself would go a long way towards balance.

Varonth.5830:

I’ll take a wild guess here and say, it is about a build consisting of greatsword + axe/shield.
Traits for maximum greatsword damage.
Most likely zerger amulet.

The elementalist equivalent is a staff ele running 20 or even 30 fire, 30 air and whatever is left in arcana with zerger amulet.
Guess what, that build will just explode.
Can it work? Yes, it can. Will it survive against competent enemies who will attack them? Most likely not.
Warriors can go a route, where they rival eles group support, if you go for shouts and warhorn, while they can maintain a good sustained damage and movement speed, yet warriors refuse to go this for no reason whatsoever.
Every class can run a zerger build to some degree, but not all classes are equally good at this. You need alot of survivability from your class mechanics, which warriors just don’t have. But warriors can go other routes. People just have to try different approaches.

No, warriors have been trying shout and banner builds since beta, and it’s simply inferior to similar builds from other classes. Yes, you can supply good offensive boons and condi removal, but you have nowhere near the healing and escape moves of an ele. That’s why it works in pve, but not pvp.

Myrmidian Eudoros.4671:

“Drastic” is a bit of an overstatement, but a buff is certainly still in order.

What if:

Warrior’s Sprint -> Incraese to 25% IMS when wielding Melee Weapon in MH (increase from 10%), Possibly even do it like necro and make it 15% MH 10% OH melee weapon.

Mending -> Removes 3 conditions (increase from 2) and grants regeneration for 4s

“Shake it Off” -> Cures 2 conditions (increase from 1)

All of these together might be a bit too much of a buff for Warrior, but basically it would allow Warrior to chase down kiters more effectively, and improve their condition cleansing ability which is currently abysmal, while making some traits and skills that are currently kind of “meh” and make them really solid options.

Well the actual healskills of warrior are kinda underpowered. Same goes for the necro. It doesn’t make sense, to have healskills on 25s cooldown, on a class with 18k health, which, which heals less then other classes 20s heals.

Healthpools are kinda irrelevant if you cannot maintain said health in a fight.
In my opinion healskills should be streamlined in a way, that a certain cooldown equals a certain percentage of the base healthpool of that class.
Example:
A 30s cooldown heal ability equals 50% of the base healthpool.
In case of a warrior this is ~9k health. In case of a mesmer this would be ~7.5k health. In case of an ele this would be ~5k health.
So every class would gain 100% base-health back via #6 once per minute.

Edit:

Varonth.5830:

Varonth.5830:

I’ll take a wild guess here and say, it is about a build consisting of greatsword + axe/shield.
Traits for maximum greatsword damage.
Most likely zerger amulet.

The elementalist equivalent is a staff ele running 20 or even 30 fire, 30 air and whatever is left in arcana with zerger amulet.
Guess what, that build will just explode.
Can it work? Yes, it can. Will it survive against competent enemies who will attack them? Most likely not.
Warriors can go a route, where they rival eles group support, if you go for shouts and warhorn, while they can maintain a good sustained damage and movement speed, yet warriors refuse to go this for no reason whatsoever.
Every class can run a zerger build to some degree, but not all classes are equally good at this. You need alot of survivability from your class mechanics, which warriors just don’t have. But warriors can go other routes. People just have to try different approaches.

No, warriors have been trying shout and banner builds since beta, and it’s simply inferior to similar builds from other classes. Yes, you can supply good offensive boons and condi removal, but you have nowhere near the healing and escape moves of an ele. That’s why it works in pve, but not pvp.

With the recent nerf to eles RtL and Cleansing Water, this changed a bit.
Warhorn also got some buffs, with the no longer existant aftercast delay on Call to Arms. Charge is probably one of the best condi removals ingame right now, especially when traited. Name any other condi remove which can AoE cleanse on everyone on a point immobilize, even if said immobilize is covert by 7 other conditions. It on the same time also cleanse crippled and chilled, and if traited, then converts another condition into a boon, and then grant to swiftness on top of this.
Every 12s if traited. There is no condition cleanse ingame which comes close to this.

Call to Arms, if traited with warhorn convert trait, adds atleast 12s of vigor every 16s. Again for every ally on a point. It also converts another condition into a boon and throws out weakness to all enemies. Oh and with the last patch, this skill also became a blast finisher.

This weapon with just one trait rivals the eles condi cleanse + buffing. It also allows you to have a 100% uptime on swiftness, giving you a really good movement speed bonus, even without GS or Sword.

And if you want to play damage, well, tactic traitline comes with a adept trait which adds additional damage per boon on you (and as far as my tests go, it is 2% as the ele 25 water minor). Given that warhorn will atleast give you 2 boons, but very likely 4, and some boons from other sources, like fire blast finishers or boons from allies, this traitline easily adds 10% to your damage. Of every weapon.
Oh, and tactics minors aren’t bad either. Getting 400 toughness and ressing 10% faster can really turn the tide on a pointfight.
And then, if you are already 20 points in this traitline, you can just add 10 if you want more support, and get shout heals (which in return will give you more buffs, which will then add more damage via Empowered).

Varonth.5830:

I’ll take a wild guess here and say, it is about a build consisting of greatsword + axe/shield.
Traits for maximum greatsword damage.
Most likely zerger amulet.

The elementalist equivalent is a staff ele running 20 or even 30 fire, 30 air and whatever is left in arcana with zerger amulet.
Guess what, that build will just explode.
Can it work? Yes, it can. Will it survive against competent enemies who will attack them? Most likely not.
Warriors can go a route, where they rival eles group support, if you go for shouts and warhorn, while they can maintain a good sustained damage and movement speed, yet warriors refuse to go this for no reason whatsoever.
Every class can run a zerger build to some degree, but not all classes are equally good at this. You need alot of survivability from your class mechanics, which warriors just don’t have. But warriors can go other routes. People just have to try different approaches.

No reason whatsoever. Here’s the reason: (even if a see a warrior pull out a shield and reflect/block or pull out a rifle to pew pew a little it is ALWAYS a prelude to the kitten 100 blades b.s. the majority of warriors seem to think it’s the only way to play)

Grackleflint.4956:

Varonth.5830:

I’ll take a wild guess here and say, it is about a build consisting of greatsword + axe/shield.
Traits for maximum greatsword damage.
Most likely zerger amulet.

The elementalist equivalent is a staff ele running 20 or even 30 fire, 30 air and whatever is left in arcana with zerger amulet.
Guess what, that build will just explode.
Can it work? Yes, it can. Will it survive against competent enemies who will attack them? Most likely not.
Warriors can go a route, where they rival eles group support, if you go for shouts and warhorn, while they can maintain a good sustained damage and movement speed, yet warriors refuse to go this for no reason whatsoever.
Every class can run a zerger build to some degree, but not all classes are equally good at this. You need alot of survivability from your class mechanics, which warriors just don’t have. But warriors can go other routes. People just have to try different approaches.

No reason whatsoever. Here’s the reason: (even if a see a warrior pull out a shield and reflect/block or pull out a rifle to pew pew a little it is ALWAYS a prelude to the kitten 100 blades b.s. the majority of warriors seem to think it’s the only way to play)

People run greatsword for the evade. Get out of here with your foolishness.

Spec too far into tactics and you have to give up something precious.

Downside to warhorn is that it just removes the condition and gives some random boon. Not sure if it follows removal logic for the condition it converts. Not sure if I am making sense here, but you get no offensive effect from using the weapon skill.
Plus shield can prevent damage, warhorn does not, it just bandaids it.

Interpret Interrupt.3824:

Grackleflint.4956:

Varonth.5830:

I’ll take a wild guess here and say, it is about a build consisting of greatsword + axe/shield.
Traits for maximum greatsword damage.
Most likely zerger amulet.

The elementalist equivalent is a staff ele running 20 or even 30 fire, 30 air and whatever is left in arcana with zerger amulet.
Guess what, that build will just explode.
Can it work? Yes, it can. Will it survive against competent enemies who will attack them? Most likely not.
Warriors can go a route, where they rival eles group support, if you go for shouts and warhorn, while they can maintain a good sustained damage and movement speed, yet warriors refuse to go this for no reason whatsoever.
Every class can run a zerger build to some degree, but not all classes are equally good at this. You need alot of survivability from your class mechanics, which warriors just don’t have. But warriors can go other routes. People just have to try different approaches.

No reason whatsoever. Here’s the reason: (even if a see a warrior pull out a shield and reflect/block or pull out a rifle to pew pew a little it is ALWAYS a prelude to the kitten 100 blades b.s. the majority of warriors seem to think it’s the only way to play)

People run greatsword for the evade. Get out of here with your foolishness.

Spec too far into tactics and you have to give up something precious.

Downside to warhorn is that it just removes the condition and gives some random boon. Not sure if it follows removal logic for the condition it converts. Not sure if I am making sense here, but you get no offensive effect from using the weapon skill.
Plus shield can prevent damage, warhorn does not, it just bandaids it.

Well it doesn’t randomly convert conditions into boons.
For example, Blind converts to Fury.
Burning to Aegis.
Bleeding to vigor.
Poison to Regen…

Full list here:
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Quick_Breathing

Besides, depending on the conversion, you might end up with 100% vigor uptime from warhorn.

So you get double the amount of dodges over 30s. This is alot of prevented damage.

I’ve been running warrior much of the time lately and honestly my only gripe is that we need more condition removal. Like a guy above me said, we need:

Mending to remove 3 conditions
Shake it off to remove 2 conditions

In addition I think that all signets should be fixed so that the active effects do NOT cancel the passive effects. Sure, people could spam them up to their CD but there is a reason people don’t just spam their evades even though they ‘could’. If necessary just make them highly situational rather than a straight up buff (the unblockable effect was a step in the right direction)

I honestly feel like If condition removal is fixed then If you play well then you can fight anyone, including mesmer. One thing I will say though, is that the warrior class is not very forgiving of mistakes.

Kreedz.8127:

Also, the warrior needs changes in their weapons & traits, not so much in their utility skills, although some improvements to existing utilities would be nice. The signet buff’s were pretty good start.

The signet buff was lazy. The proper change would have been to make the signet actives a group buff/effect.

This adds smarter play to choose to keep the passive or use the active for the group.

Varonth.5830:

Interpret Interrupt.3824:

Grackleflint.4956:

Varonth.5830:

I’ll take a wild guess here and say, it is about a build consisting of greatsword + axe/shield.
Traits for maximum greatsword damage.
Most likely zerger amulet.

The elementalist equivalent is a staff ele running 20 or even 30 fire, 30 air and whatever is left in arcana with zerger amulet.
Guess what, that build will just explode.
Can it work? Yes, it can. Will it survive against competent enemies who will attack them? Most likely not.
Warriors can go a route, where they rival eles group support, if you go for shouts and warhorn, while they can maintain a good sustained damage and movement speed, yet warriors refuse to go this for no reason whatsoever.
Every class can run a zerger build to some degree, but not all classes are equally good at this. You need alot of survivability from your class mechanics, which warriors just don’t have. But warriors can go other routes. People just have to try different approaches.

No reason whatsoever. Here’s the reason: (even if a see a warrior pull out a shield and reflect/block or pull out a rifle to pew pew a little it is ALWAYS a prelude to the kitten 100 blades b.s. the majority of warriors seem to think it’s the only way to play)

People run greatsword for the evade. Get out of here with your foolishness.

Spec too far into tactics and you have to give up something precious.

Downside to warhorn is that it just removes the condition and gives some random boon. Not sure if it follows removal logic for the condition it converts. Not sure if I am making sense here, but you get no offensive effect from using the weapon skill.
Plus shield can prevent damage, warhorn does not, it just bandaids it.

Well it doesn’t randomly convert conditions into boons.
For example, Blind converts to Fury.
Burning to Aegis.
Bleeding to vigor.
Poison to Regen…

Full list here:
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Quick_Breathing

Besides, depending on the conversion, you might end up with 100% vigor uptime from warhorn.

So you get double the amount of dodges over 30s. This is alot of prevented damage.

What I meant was that while there is a conversion list, it is hard to say which condition it is going to pull. I am uncertain whether it follows condition removal rules or it has its own hierarchy.

Dodging is important for mitigating damage but outside of reckless dodge, you are unable to deal damage at the time. Since we aren’t there to tank, I want to maximize my damage output while reducing my intake of damage. Dodging minimizes both.

Protection however achieves our desired effect, and classes with access to protection who are meant for damaging can last longer.

I do agree with Varonth that WH is a good weapon (and underused), but making a full support build war is still a tough sell. Curing movement condis for your team is important, but so are aoe heals, defensive boons (prot and stability in particular), as well as reliably clearing high priority damage dots.

I think the best thing warrior can bring along those lines is more of a support/cc hybrid build. There’s certainly some valid options, just nothing that I could imagine shaking up the meta.

Interpret Interrupt.3824:

Varonth.5830:

Interpret Interrupt.3824:

Grackleflint.4956:

Varonth.5830:

I’ll take a wild guess here and say, it is about a build consisting of greatsword + axe/shield.
Traits for maximum greatsword damage.
Most likely zerger amulet.

The elementalist equivalent is a staff ele running 20 or even 30 fire, 30 air and whatever is left in arcana with zerger amulet.
Guess what, that build will just explode.
Can it work? Yes, it can. Will it survive against competent enemies who will attack them? Most likely not.
Warriors can go a route, where they rival eles group support, if you go for shouts and warhorn, while they can maintain a good sustained damage and movement speed, yet warriors refuse to go this for no reason whatsoever.
Every class can run a zerger build to some degree, but not all classes are equally good at this. You need alot of survivability from your class mechanics, which warriors just don’t have. But warriors can go other routes. People just have to try different approaches.

No reason whatsoever. Here’s the reason: (even if a see a warrior pull out a shield and reflect/block or pull out a rifle to pew pew a little it is ALWAYS a prelude to the kitten 100 blades b.s. the majority of warriors seem to think it’s the only way to play)

People run greatsword for the evade. Get out of here with your foolishness.

Spec too far into tactics and you have to give up something precious.

Downside to warhorn is that it just removes the condition and gives some random boon. Not sure if it follows removal logic for the condition it converts. Not sure if I am making sense here, but you get no offensive effect from using the weapon skill.
Plus shield can prevent damage, warhorn does not, it just bandaids it.

Well it doesn’t randomly convert conditions into boons.
For example, Blind converts to Fury.
Burning to Aegis.
Bleeding to vigor.
Poison to Regen…

Full list here:
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Quick_Breathing

Besides, depending on the conversion, you might end up with 100% vigor uptime from warhorn.

So you get double the amount of dodges over 30s. This is alot of prevented damage.

What I meant was that while there is a conversion list, it is hard to say which condition it is going to pull. I am uncertain whether it follows condition removal rules or it has its own hierarchy.

Dodging is important for mitigating damage but outside of reckless dodge, you are unable to deal damage at the time. Since we aren’t there to tank, I want to maximize my damage output while reducing my intake of damage. Dodging minimizes both.

Protection however achieves our desired effect, and classes with access to protection who are meant for damaging can last longer.

Isn’t especially in that case, Warhorn better then Shield? You will have Swiftness access on demand, you can reliably cure movement impairing conditions.
And you are saying that dodging minizes both, but so does shield stance.

And the condition remove logic is most likely the same as any other condition remove. Last in, first out. Except for charge. Charge first removes crippled, chilled and immobilize and then does the last in, first out check.

And the question is, why should any class (exceptMesmers :P ) be allowed to go full offensive, without a high risk of dying?

And where do you want to put protection on? 10s when using 100 blades?
I mean, it isn’t going to be on GS. And it also isn’t going to be on Axe.
If warriors would get protection, it would either be in a defensive line, or on a utility. In both cases you would have to give up something else.

Warriors should receive better sustain, but under no circumstance can damage capabilities remain untouched, once that is done.

Reduce the damage potential, give them more sustain to survive, so they don’t lose an irrecuperable amount of hitpoints trying to get to their target.

Tell me how ranger doesn’t generate protection while doing damage. Tell me how ele doesn’t generate protection. Two highly sought after damage dealers in NA.
I am pointing out we have no source of protection, which is why we are terrible bunkers.

I did not say gs war needed protection. I was explaining to you why more dodging is not equivalent to protection.

It’s mainly just the warrior healin abilities…
Compare them to other classes and you will see why they are so bad.

First, healing signet traited is a 16 second cd heals about 3k something not that a great of a heal(let’s not even consider the garbage heal over time)
The thief 15 second cool down heals more has an evade and removes certain conditions doesn’t need to be traited to already be a lower CD then healig signet.

2nd, Mending heals about 5k heals 2 conditions 25 sec cd
Compare to necro consume conditions which is same CD already heals more AND removes ALL conditions healin per condition.

3rd, healing surge 30 second cd heals for about 8k with full adrenaline
Compare to the Mesmer heal which is 20 sec cd heals based off how many clones .. It healsore over time then healing surge and 3 clones is easy mode compared to 3 strikes of adrenaline

There is countless comparisons that make the warrior heals look like complete trash

Wars class defining ability has no defensive upside. Burst attacks just don’t offer the defensive potential of stealth, protection spam, life force and other abilities baked into most other classes

When everyone else defends up via a class defining ability, warriors have a handful of blocks tied to specific weapons and 4 second endure pain

fakeblood.2576:

It’s mainly just the warrior healin abilities…
Compare them to other classes and you will see why they are so bad.

First, healing signet traited is a 16 second cd heals about 3k something not that a great of a heal(let’s not even consider the garbage heal over time)
The thief 15 second cool down heals more has an evade and removes certain conditions doesn’t need to be traited to already be a lower CD then healig signet.

2nd, Mending heals about 5k heals 2 conditions 25 sec cd
Compare to necro consume conditions which is same CD already heals more AND removes ALL conditions healin per condition.

3rd, healing surge 30 second cd heals for about 8k with full adrenaline
Compare to the Mesmer heal which is 20 sec cd heals based off how many clones .. It healsore over time then healing surge and 3 clones is easy mode compared to 3 strikes of adrenaline

There is countless comparisons that make the warrior heals look like complete trash

Those classes haven’t got both heavy armors and the higher hp tier, though. Thus a similar comparison is quite biased. You can’t have all and just the nice things, basically.

Manuhell.2759:

fakeblood.2576:

It’s mainly just the warrior healin abilities…
Compare them to other classes and you will see why they are so bad.

First, healing signet traited is a 16 second cd heals about 3k something not that a great of a heal(let’s not even consider the garbage heal over time)
The thief 15 second cool down heals more has an evade and removes certain conditions doesn’t need to be traited to already be a lower CD then healig signet.

2nd, Mending heals about 5k heals 2 conditions 25 sec cd
Compare to necro consume conditions which is same CD already heals more AND removes ALL conditions healin per condition.

3rd, healing surge 30 second cd heals for about 8k with full adrenaline
Compare to the Mesmer heal which is 20 sec cd heals based off how many clones .. It healsore over time then healing surge and 3 clones is easy mode compared to 3 strikes of adrenaline

There is countless comparisons that make the warrior heals look like complete trash

Those classes haven’t got both heavy armors and the higher hp tier, though. Thus a similar comparison is quite biased. You can’t have all and just the nice things, basically.

Sorry but heavy armor and high HP doesn’t cut it

Specially when Mesmers have invul stealth teleports 15 seconds of chaos armor with a staff 3% reduced damage with a trait per clone why don’t warriors have that with adrenaline? These are all things that make the warrior have poor sustain

The healing abilities lacking doesn’t have anything to do with high HP and heavy armor

Manuhell.2759:

Those classes haven’t got both heavy armors and the higher hp tier, though. Thus a similar comparison is quite biased. You can’t have all and just the nice things, basically.

When will people realise that a high health pool ( lets say 4-6k over other classes ) means exactly nothing with no mitigation whatsoever. That includes escapes, teleport, stealth, blind, protection chains, higher base heals, life force…. and so on on a class that is primarily melee based with little to no condition removal whatsoever.

People keep saying" Oh? Just spec into survival with shouts and X and Y"

Guess what, that makes you MARGINALLY more survivable while negating your effective damage ( and thereby potential threat ) while you still get killed in the end.

The reason warriors spec into damage and damage alone is that the ‘defensive’ talents are lacklustre where damage specs GIVE YOU AT LEAST A CHANCE.

Kreedz.8127:

I understand other classes have problems, and certain classes need to be toned down as well, but with the current Meta, Warriors are almost forced to have 2 utilities constant across all of their build’s; Endure Pain & Bull’s Charge. Without these two abilities we have little in the way of staying in a fight.

Feel your pain. For the past 100+ tournament games I didn’t bring a single utility that wasn’t bull’s, balanced and endure pain. I’m yet to find a rune more fitting than Hoelbrak. Frankly, it feels like going through the motions against a storm that can devour you any time you’re out of your cooldowns; then big improvisation begins till a numbers game changes, and you either assist or flee. Tbh, I’m taking a break until actual changes are made.

Warrior has a trait that movility skills break immobilize. It would be interesting to see a another trait, or this same one, that gives stability for a couple of seconds of using a charge ability.

This could bring a new type of warrior, a really movile one that would be a pain in the kitten

The sad part is that rangers survive practically infinitely more than we do in spvp. Oh and also, their pets do just as much damage as us.

Warriors could do OK with only some slight changes like reduced healing cooldown or access to protection, more evade, better CC ect …

We definitely need a sustain buff to be competitive, not some silly damage trait increase like boonhate …

I thought we were supposed to be WARRIORS … not some greatsword thieves …

i want to make a bunker warrior but i would get overwhelmed by conditions