Guild Wars 2

Loop.8106:

Amaimon.7823:

CrashTheGrey.1492:

Amaimon.7823:

drcraig.9403:

OriOri.8724:

drcraig.9403:

ButterPeanut.9746 I expect you’re correct on both counts. At this point with almost 90 views I got exactly what I expected. No replies other than yours. Goes to show, nobody is treated as poorly as the Warrior.

You’re kidding right?

Well no, I’m not. The fact that you offered absolutely nothing to refute my claim speaks volumes. Thanks for your complete lack of substance. Please take the last word, I’ve already wasted enough time on you.

“I made an argument so vague that you can only say ‘what?’. And now that you said that I can say you can’t refute my claims. I win”

Would have been 10/10 roast if you added a tips fedora at the end.

I main warrior. ArenaNet has been massively incompetent over the years in so many areas/classes, and for long periods of time, warrior has been very strong/too strong. Ori doesn’t need to make an argument because the overwhelming inaccuracy of “nobody is treated as poorly as warrior” is hilarious.

Warrior is certainly in a horrid spot, but come on, ArenaNet treats most classes with complete ineptitude at random. I think the real hilarious bit is how awful warrior was already before that berserker nerf.

If we come across a guardian, they have a stability upkeep of 100%, occassionally with blocks, we dead.

Last time I checked, the guardian had access to 4 seconds of stability every 55 seconds. or 8 seconds every 87 seconds with renewed focus.
If we come across a warrior and he hits bulls charge, we dead.

Last time I checked, a guardian also had a couple of dodges, blocks and stun breaks as well. If you’re dyeing because you’re out of stab and a warrior lands a bulls charge you either need to learn to play or everything you have is on cooldown.

SolarDragon.7063:

Amaimon.7823:

Loop.8106:

Amaimon.7823:

CrashTheGrey.1492:

Amaimon.7823:

drcraig.9403:

OriOri.8724:

drcraig.9403:

ButterPeanut.9746 I expect you’re correct on both counts. At this point with almost 90 views I got exactly what I expected. No replies other than yours. Goes to show, nobody is treated as poorly as the Warrior.

You’re kidding right?

Well no, I’m not. The fact that you offered absolutely nothing to refute my claim speaks volumes. Thanks for your complete lack of substance. Please take the last word, I’ve already wasted enough time on you.

“I made an argument so vague that you can only say ‘what?’. And now that you said that I can say you can’t refute my claims. I win”

Would have been 10/10 roast if you added a tips fedora at the end.

I main warrior. ArenaNet has been massively incompetent over the years in so many areas/classes, and for long periods of time, warrior has been very strong/too strong. Ori doesn’t need to make an argument because the overwhelming inaccuracy of “nobody is treated as poorly as warrior” is hilarious.

Warrior is certainly in a horrid spot, but come on, ArenaNet treats most classes with complete ineptitude at random. I think the real hilarious bit is how awful warrior was already before that berserker nerf.

If we come across a guardian, they have a stability upkeep of 100%, occassionally with blocks, we dead.

Last time I checked, the guardian had access to 4 seconds of stability every 55 seconds. or 8 seconds every 87 seconds with renewed focus.
If we come across a warrior and he hits bulls charge, we dead.

Guardian drops his traps, then thethers the warrior, then spawns a circle of shields, all the while being able to continue his stream of dps, IF a warrior survives all that, then we can fire a headbutt yes or bulls charge, yes (although I prefer Stomp)

I seem to remember this thing called endure pain… now stop whining.

Ah yes, endure pain. Yet another nerf to the warrior class. Personally I think it was the right the thing to do, but I disagree with how it was reworked. I think the utility should have remained the same, but they could have changed the trait to offer protection + some swiftness instead of invuln. Either way, 2 seconds still comes in handy against cheese builds like the one described above.

It’s a good thing that Bull’s Charge is now an evade and that paired with Whirlwind Attack DH’s traps aren’t a danger anymore.

Without Berserker we need another good source of stability but with another evade such as Bull’s Charge Endure Pain isn’t really needed anymore and Balanced Stance make its appearance. Might Makes Right it’s one of the better things happened to warrior recently and have it in strength line, where our damage modifiers and our best weapon have his trait, is a bless.

And that endurance regeneration with damaging dodges tho!
Warrior is “fine” at the moment even if not meta.

It is a little telling that warrior is now a class where the elite specialization is considerably worse than the core builds. Berserker is incredibly underpowered compared to the other elite builds for other classes. It did need an adjustment:nerf and got one. At that point the build was no longer great but decent. Inexplicably though anet nerfed it again and now it’s close to unplayable against decent competition.

drcraig.9403:

OriOri.8724:

drcraig.9403:

ButterPeanut.9746 I expect you’re correct on both counts. At this point with almost 90 views I got exactly what I expected. No replies other than yours. Goes to show, nobody is treated as poorly as the Warrior.

You’re kidding right?

Well no, I’m not. The fact that you offered absolutely nothing to refute my claim speaks volumes. Thanks for your complete lack of substance. Please take the last word, I’ve already wasted enough time on you.

The class that’s king of raids, a backbone of WvW frontlines and strongest roamers, and has had seasons of total dominance in spvp.

Treated poorly by devs. God, you are adorable.

I wish my revenant or necromancer were treated as “poorly” as your warrior is.

Solstace.2514:

It is a little telling that warrior is now a class where the elite specialization is considerably worse than the core builds. Berserker is incredibly underpowered compared to the other elite builds for other classes. It did need an adjustment:nerf and got one. At that point the build was no longer great but decent. Inexplicably though anet nerfed it again and now it’s close to unplayable against decent competition.

hence the salitness, the second nerf was completely out of the blue & unnecessary

especially as warrior had only been meta for a very short time

===

idk why the necros are qqing. they have been a staple of the meta for ages. sure they are no ele or thief, but they are up there with mesmer when it comes to time spent in meta.

but like dude. having a class cry off is so silly. thief & ele are the meta staples, the rest of the classes go in & out of fashion. some more than others. but idk what having a cry off about it achieves.

Weird confirmation bias, really? This from a guy who entered a conversation based on a single sentence and then decided to ignore the details from my original post. Gimme a break.

I was merely mocking your incorrect blanket statement (an opinion) and you got so triggered you tried to strawman it back to your original post. Multiple people mocked you before I even stepped in. Take off the fedora and get some fresh air please.

The beauty of conversation is I can agree with some but not ALL of the things you are saying, and poke fun at the fact that you would rather talk in circles than appreciate outside perspective that isn’t obviously biased towards warrior. Now multiple people have refuted you, and your argument alone is faulty in that you only consider a specific time frame and use it as CONFIRMATION BIAS to say that warrior is more poorly treated than other classes.

Crack a book dude, you are struggling here.
Edit: Here’s the definition for you to make things a bit easier.

Confirmation Bias: the tendency to interpret new evidence as confirmation of one’s existing beliefs or theories.

I.E. Warrior has been very strong/ too strong at different points in time.(as others have pointed out). But because of “new evidence” (arena net’s horribly planned nerfs) you are making a blanket statement that they are more poorly treated than other classes. Confirmation Bias.

You are trying to limit the scope of observable evidence, and noone with half a brain will let you. Truth hurts.

Zenith.7301:

drcraig.9403:

OriOri.8724:

drcraig.9403:

ButterPeanut.9746 I expect you’re correct on both counts. At this point with almost 90 views I got exactly what I expected. No replies other than yours. Goes to show, nobody is treated as poorly as the Warrior.

You’re kidding right?

Well no, I’m not. The fact that you offered absolutely nothing to refute my claim speaks volumes. Thanks for your complete lack of substance. Please take the last word, I’ve already wasted enough time on you.

The class that’s king of raids, a backbone of WvW frontlines and strongest roamers, and has had seasons of total dominance in spvp.

Treated poorly by devs. God, you are adorable.

I wish my revenant or necromancer were treated as “poorly” as your warrior is.

backbone of wvw frontline? warrior? that’s like 2014, at the moment warrior is completely useless in frontline zerg and has been that way for a long time now
king of raids is elementalist
rev has more pvp meta time since it’s introduction then warrior will ever have since gw2 release

CrashTheGrey.1492:

Weird confirmation bias, really? This from a guy who entered a conversation based on a single sentence and then decided to ignore the details from my original post. Gimme a break.

I was merely mocking your incorrect blanket statement (an opinion) and you got so triggered you tried to strawman it back to your original post. Multiple people mocked you before I even stepped in. Take off the fedora and get some fresh air please.

The beauty of conversation is I can agree with some but not ALL of the things you are saying, and poke fun at the fact that you would rather talk in circles than appreciate outside perspective that isn’t obviously biased towards warrior. Now multiple people have refuted you, and your argument alone is faulty in that you only consider a specific time frame and use it as CONFIRMATION BIAS to say that warrior is more poorly treated than other classes.

Crack a book dude, you are struggling here.
Edit: Here’s the definition for you to make things a bit easier.

Confirmation Bias: the tendency to interpret new evidence as confirmation of one’s existing beliefs or theories.

I.E. Warrior has been very strong/ too strong at different points in time.(as others have pointed out). But because of “new evidence” (arena net’s horribly planned nerfs) you are making a blanket statement that they are more poorly treated than other classes. Confirmation Bias.

You are trying to limit the scope of observable evidence, and noone with half a brain will let you. Truth hurts.

Keep trying Crash. What I said was specific and people like you are trying to make it a blanket statement. You keep denying the details and claim whatever hollow victory you feel you’ve won. Much like your win in a pvp match, it doesn’t mean anything in the real world. Oh and by the way you’re using confirmation bias incorrectly. Present facts relevant to the time frame or give it up. Saying all professions have been shafted over the last 5 years is obviously true. Unfortunately for you I wasn’t talking about the last 5 years. Noone with half a brain would allow you to change the “scope of observance” just so you can win. My scope of observance was 2 years. I’m really starting to pity you so take whatever hollow “victory” you feel you’ve achieved and enjoy it. See “Hollowman”, I’m a pretty nice guy.

Me-“Man this is the hottest summer in the last 3 years”

Crash- “Nuh uh, it was hotter 5 years ago”

Me- “No Crash I was talking about the last 3 years not 5”

Crash- “You’re talking in circles”

drcraig.9403:

ButterPeanut.9746 I expect you’re correct on both counts. At this point with almost 90 views I got exactly what I expected. No replies other than yours. Goes to show, nobody is treated as poorly as the Warrior.

Someone from each class should post this quote on each class subforum for thoughts.

CrashTheGrey.1492:

drcraig.9403:

ButterPeanut.9746 I expect you’re correct on both counts. At this point with almost 90 views I got exactly what I expected. No replies other than yours. Goes to show, nobody is treated as poorly as the Warrior.

Someone from each class should post this quote on each class subforum for thoughts.

Yes please do. Be sure to add my original post to insure proper context. Otherwise you’re just “hollowman”. This is what losers do when they’re sad about being a failure. LOL

I don’t like picking on sad cases so I’ll leave you alone moving forward. LOLOLOL

choovanski.5462:

@Kuya

if anet is actually making is so one specialisation is for pve, and the other is for pvp. and are doing this by nerfing the ‘pve specs’ so much that they are not viable in PvP…..

then oh my gosh. if they are consciously doing that. I don’t know what to say. well, apart from that it’s the dumbest decision on earth.
why not have both specialisations viable in PvP and you know, have build diversity? like what is bad about that. why introduce more elite specs then make it so half of the specs only work in one gamemode. it’s such a dumb idea.

like, why not go the engineer route for all classes. both Holo and Scrapper are gonna be viable, and two really different choices.
why you wouldn’t want this for all classes is 100% beyond me. 1 spec for PvP and one for PvE, god what a dumb decision, I honestly hope that’s not the goal here.

---

like, as far as beserker goes. removing the primal burst CD nerf, and making it so going into beserk mode counts as a t3 burst would bring it back. it would be good again. it’s not super hard to creatively un-kitten it’s sustain, which is what was nerfed mostly.

Engineer? Are we talking about the same class here? Engineers in pve go core for raiding. Scrapper is only meta in pvp.

Furthermore, maybe you’re right. Making one elite specialize in pvp and another pve is not build diversity in pvp or pve. It is build diversity on the game in general if two elite specs don’t compete for the same spot in the same game mode though. And if it’s between that and having elites being better than the previous ones rather than offering new ways to play a class, than i prefer the former.

I think the problem with the kind of people who post on this forum is a problem of expectations. You expected anet to balance elite specs a certain way and get outraged when they don’t meet your expectations. But you never seem to question whether your expectations are realistic or ultimately desireable in the long term. I think we should all practice more self criticism and study whether our desires and expectations are really practical and whether they match the designer’s vision for what an elite spec should be.

Instead though, on this forum in particular, we seem to act like we’re ordering at McDonald’s.

Kuya.6495:

choovanski.5462:

@Kuya

if anet is actually making is so one specialisation is for pve, and the other is for pvp. and are doing this by nerfing the ‘pve specs’ so much that they are not viable in PvP…..

then oh my gosh. if they are consciously doing that. I don’t know what to say. well, apart from that it’s the dumbest decision on earth.
why not have both specialisations viable in PvP and you know, have build diversity? like what is bad about that. why introduce more elite specs then make it so half of the specs only work in one gamemode. it’s such a dumb idea.

like, why not go the engineer route for all classes. both Holo and Scrapper are gonna be viable, and two really different choices.
why you wouldn’t want this for all classes is 100% beyond me. 1 spec for PvP and one for PvE, god what a dumb decision, I honestly hope that’s not the goal here.

---

like, as far as beserker goes. removing the primal burst CD nerf, and making it so going into beserk mode counts as a t3 burst would bring it back. it would be good again. it’s not super hard to creatively un-kitten it’s sustain, which is what was nerfed mostly.

Engineer? Are we talking about the same class here? Engineers in pve go core for raiding. Scrapper is only meta in pvp.

Furthermore, maybe you’re right. Making one elite specialize in pvp and another pve is not build diversity in pvp or pve. It is build diversity on the game in general if two elite specs don’t compete for the same spot in the same game mode though. And if it’s between that and having elites being better than the previous ones rather than offering new ways to play a class, than i prefer the former.

I think the problem with the kind of people who post on this forum is a problem of expectations. You expected anet to balance elite specs a certain way and get outraged when they don’t meet your expectations. But you never seem to question whether your expectations are realistic or ultimately desireable in the long term. I think we should all practice more self criticism and study whether our desires and expectations are really practical and whether they match the designer’s vision for what an elite spec should be.

Instead though, on this forum in particular, we seem to act like we’re ordering at McDonald’s.

Fair assessment sir.

Berserker doesn’t work well for Power anymore and I think it was incredibly lazy design. I think there was practical decisions that would have made more sense (and people have made a point in outlining them). Ultimately, we have one less viable build on an underplayed PvP class. I do believe it’s fair to expect more out of a triple a company than what they keep doing.

I’ve gotta ask, what was the designers vision for berserker? Because with a 66% nerf to its on trait effects tied directly into its class mechanic, it would appear that whatever vision there is, they don’t know how to accomplish it. Right now, berserker feels like nothing, and that sentiment is echoed through an overwhelming majority of players.

It is ridiculous to expect things from this company. But I do believe someone will listen and try to pull the positive out of the saltiness they’ve caused and eventually fix it.

Giving credit where it’s due to Anet, I believe I see a “sidegrade” oriented approach to elite specs and they’re just doing a regular sloppy job of implementation due to lack of resources. Ultimately, if they do it right, it’s a direction that will make more people happy.

But I won’t hold my breath. See below.
https://youtu.be/64eQ-6kyv0k

Kuya.6495:

choovanski.5462:

@Kuya

if anet is actually making is so one specialisation is for pve, and the other is for pvp. and are doing this by nerfing the ‘pve specs’ so much that they are not viable in PvP…..

then oh my gosh. if they are consciously doing that. I don’t know what to say. well, apart from that it’s the dumbest decision on earth.
why not have both specialisations viable in PvP and you know, have build diversity? like what is bad about that. why introduce more elite specs then make it so half of the specs only work in one gamemode. it’s such a dumb idea.

like, why not go the engineer route for all classes. both Holo and Scrapper are gonna be viable, and two really different choices.
why you wouldn’t want this for all classes is 100% beyond me. 1 spec for PvP and one for PvE, god what a dumb decision, I honestly hope that’s not the goal here.

---

like, as far as beserker goes. removing the primal burst CD nerf, and making it so going into beserk mode counts as a t3 burst would bring it back. it would be good again. it’s not super hard to creatively un-kitten it’s sustain, which is what was nerfed mostly.

Engineer? Are we talking about the same class here? Engineers in pve go core for raiding. Scrapper is only meta in pvp.

Furthermore, maybe you’re right. Making one elite specialize in pvp and another pve is not build diversity in pvp or pve. It is build diversity on the game in general if two elite specs don’t compete for the same spot in the same game mode though. And if it’s between that and having elites being better than the previous ones rather than offering new ways to play a class, than i prefer the former.

I think the problem with the kind of people who post on this forum is a problem of expectations. You expected anet to balance elite specs a certain way and get outraged when they don’t meet your expectations. But you never seem to question whether your expectations are realistic or ultimately desireable in the long term. I think we should all practice more self criticism and study whether our desires and expectations are really practical and whether they match the designer’s vision for what an elite spec should be.

Instead though, on this forum in particular, we seem to act like we’re ordering at McDonald’s.

Your statement makes sense to me and I agree that at times our expectations can be out of whack for what’s best for the game. Speaking of a having new or various was to play a class I’ve heard some interesting things. Another poster stated that Berserker is going to be configured to be more of a condi spec and Spellbreaker is going to be power. I’ve heard Reaper will be more power and Scourge more condi. Whether this is good or bad has yet to be seen, if it happens at all. Could be interesting, and if all else fails people can run a hybrid build. Having choices is the key.

lighter.2708:

Zenith.7301:

drcraig.9403:

OriOri.8724:

drcraig.9403:

ButterPeanut.9746 I expect you’re correct on both counts. At this point with almost 90 views I got exactly what I expected. No replies other than yours. Goes to show, nobody is treated as poorly as the Warrior.

You’re kidding right?

Well no, I’m not. The fact that you offered absolutely nothing to refute my claim speaks volumes. Thanks for your complete lack of substance. Please take the last word, I’ve already wasted enough time on you.

The class that’s king of raids, a backbone of WvW frontlines and strongest roamers, and has had seasons of total dominance in spvp.

Treated poorly by devs. God, you are adorable.

I wish my revenant or necromancer were treated as “poorly” as your warrior is.

backbone of wvw frontline? warrior? that’s like 2014, at the moment warrior is completely useless in frontline zerg and has been that way for a long time now
king of raids is elementalist
rev has more pvp meta time since it’s introduction then warrior will ever have since gw2 release

lolololol

Warrior frontline in WvW is what’s actually doing the damage in the frontline plus the hammer CC. Guardians do no damage on their own in their frontline build; they’re stability bots.

King of raids is warrior. Warrior utility buffs are a 25%+ dps buff for the raid. No class comes even close to that. A warrior contibutes 1.5 times the raid dps of your next top tier raid class. Ele provides virtually no utility and is only ahead of condi warrior by 1-2k DPS, while being significantly more fragile and having no breakbar damage.

Rev is a steaming pile of kitten in PvE, a hammer resistance bot for zergs and useless for roaming, and just like necro it’s a middling team fight punching bag that’s a worse version of thief for roaming and 1v1’s or +1’s.

Kuya.6495:

choovanski.5462:

@Kuya

if anet is actually making is so one specialisation is for pve, and the other is for pvp. and are doing this by nerfing the ‘pve specs’ so much that they are not viable in PvP…..

then oh my gosh. if they are consciously doing that. I don’t know what to say. well, apart from that it’s the dumbest decision on earth.
why not have both specialisations viable in PvP and you know, have build diversity? like what is bad about that. why introduce more elite specs then make it so half of the specs only work in one gamemode. it’s such a dumb idea.

like, why not go the engineer route for all classes. both Holo and Scrapper are gonna be viable, and two really different choices.
why you wouldn’t want this for all classes is 100% beyond me. 1 spec for PvP and one for PvE, god what a dumb decision, I honestly hope that’s not the goal here.

---

like, as far as beserker goes. removing the primal burst CD nerf, and making it so going into beserk mode counts as a t3 burst would bring it back. it would be good again. it’s not super hard to creatively un-kitten it’s sustain, which is what was nerfed mostly.

Engineer? Are we talking about the same class here? Engineers in pve go core for raiding. Scrapper is only meta in pvp.

Furthermore, maybe you’re right. Making one elite specialize in pvp and another pve is not build diversity in pvp or pve. It is build diversity on the game in general if two elite specs don’t compete for the same spot in the same game mode though. And if it’s between that and having elites being better than the previous ones rather than offering new ways to play a class, than i prefer the former.

I think the problem with the kind of people who post on this forum is a problem of expectations. You expected anet to balance elite specs a certain way and get outraged when they don’t meet your expectations. But you never seem to question whether your expectations are realistic or ultimately desireable in the long term. I think we should all practice more self criticism and study whether our desires and expectations are really practical and whether they match the designer’s vision for what an elite spec should be.

Instead though, on this forum in particular, we seem to act like we’re ordering at McDonald’s.

i have no idea what anything goes for pve, & honestly couldn’t care less.

but, maybe it is restrictive. pve meta has always been a weird dps support meta so i get that optimisation is gonna be strict. maybe this can be fixed, but i dont care.

when i mentioned engineer, i was meaning in pvp. both holo & scrapper are going to be viable in different roles. engineer is going to have two really different builds to play. dope. how cool.
im guessing ele, ranger & guardian are going to be the same. both seem to offer really different things, & with the right balance patch(lol i know) both could have meta builds.

but with warrior, it just had two patches of nerfs that trashed beserker. it lost so much sustain, & had its offensive power nerfed too. its pretty bad now.
if it wasn’t nerfed then we could have had a damage focused spec, & a sustain/boon hate spec. but we just get get one viable spec because of some poorly thought out balance changes.

so no, i dont think anet has a 1 spec per gamemode philosophy. because its not reflected in all of the elite specs. & i don’t even think it’s reflected in warrior’s. pre-nerf warrior was meta, it had tournament play on both power &. condi builds, both running beserker. it’s not bad right now because the spec is terribly designed or anything, it just had two patches of heavy nerfs. like. its not a design thing, it’s just too many nerfs.

current spellbreaker & pre-nerf beserker both are strong viable choices for pvp. both offer different playstyles, & twists on warriors role. sure they are not night & day like druid & soulbeast, but they are two very distinct styles of warrior. so like i cant see how it’s unrealistic to be a bit miffed that a spec that would have been viable two patches ago is now worse than the expansion spec.

so like. i don’t see why having both specs viable for pvp should be such a terrible thing to ask for. heck they are doing it with at least half of the classes anyhow. a group that would include pre-nerf beserker.

Warrior damage and sustain are not bad. The other apex predators like daredevils and dragonhunters that need nerfs just push you out. We don’t need more classes at the power level of daredevils and dragonhunter.

I played ele necro ranger mesmer and thief in pvp

Not good at ele and ranger mesmer and thief.Furthermore, my thief and mesmer are low lvl.

I can from experience speak more about necro, and i have been playing around a lot more with my ele than my ranger.

Eles meta build is a defensive build.I feel as if there are too many condies to cleanse, and leads to massive frustration.I noticed that i can break stuns and get away fairly easily, and am more survivable than necro.Its also fun to be the one chasing down enemies and crippling them.

Ranger:I did more pve than pvp, but i did some early stuff with power and a bit with healer druid spec.It feels survivable but i get a bit of trouble with crippling effects.Healing can be insane if timed right, because with avatar it will be tough to take down a skilled ranger even in rated.

Thief:Thief feels soo squishy compared to ranger necro and ele, but feels amazing to disengage and run around stealthing.i feel that if i try to stab people i often will get meleed down due to low health.I also tried a bit more of deadeye and with ranged sniper it does incredible damage if you aren’t being chased by thieves who are using daredevil staff or d/p, because escapes feel few.I went with because of consultation from a more experienced thief traps such as invisibility trap and tripwire.I have learned that a deadeye thief with P/P can do insane damage, but you better be good and be ready for invulns, unless you are attacking a necro.Even good necros are a threat to thieves, because i learned from playing that outside of stealth you don’t heal, and it i believe with the right build removes conditions and crippling effects.

Necro:This is the one i’m most familiar and comfortable with.In random spvp its a pain, especially vs mesmers guardians and thieves.combined together and you can expect corpse camping of the necro.If however that necro has support from his teams, you are in trouble as a thief.I can corrupt your boons make a fear trap and then dot you up and kill you.Guardians are a lot tougher, as they got so much defensive cooldowns its hard to 1v1 them.I realize that you can corrupt their boons and all that, but in a stressfull situation where you are being focused on by that guardian, i would prefer to just run and not deal with him, it just isn’t worth the frustration.Mesmers give me the same feeling of pain.While these classes are painful to fight against, lets try to keep this level headed and think from the thieves point of view:He’s squishy and if we condi him he dies right? The thieves are doing what they are supposed to do:Run around and wreak havok.

Yes.. nerf them… nerf all of them!

Kuya.6495:

I think the problem with the kind of people who post on this forum is a problem of expectations. You expected anet to balance elite specs a certain way and get outraged when they don’t meet your expectations. But you never seem to question whether your expectations are realistic or ultimately desireable in the long term. I think we should all practice more self criticism and study whether our desires and expectations are really practical and whether they match the designer’s vision for what an elite spec should be.

Instead though, on this forum in particular, we seem to act like we’re ordering at McDonald’s.

The player culture consists of expectations of one-way progression and instant gratification, so any balance fixes that bring about a loss in some way won’t be well-received. But that’s natural, and a given.

Balance changes are a feature of long-standing games, it keeps the game fresh. We may have suggested minor tweaks to “perfect” the meta, and it might indeed become so; but everyone will leave if the game becomes stale. So the question might not be what to change, but how to not upset your playerbase too much so we keep throwing gems at the Black Lion Trading Company.

To emphasize again, imbalance might very well be intentional.

Warrior must be nerfed because too many people cannot into kiting.

Saiyan.1704:

Yes.. nerf them… nerf all of them!

I appreciate your honesty. No sugarcoating , just straight to the point. Even if I disagree with you I respect that.