Guild Wars 2

Will it ever be toned down and actually balanced?

It’s already been toned down significantly

OriOri.8724:

It’s already been toned down significantly

they still have ridicoulus ammount of self healing tough……

Zoltreez.6435:

OriOri.8724:

It’s already been toned down significantly

they still have ridicoulus ammount of self healing tough……

Only if they’re running Might Makes Right, Healing Signet and maintaining full Adrenal Health, with no poison.

Sure they have many ways to self heal, but it’s not enough to put up against the damage output of Scourges, Holosmiths, other Spellbreakers and other high dps specs from HoT.

If you want to have viable Warrior builds in PvP, accept that as a melee class they need some sustain.

Currently, I see no problems for Spellbreaker here. It can either be ran with Defense and Adrenal Health or Strength with Might makes Right, but you won’t run both at the cost of losing Discipline and Fast Hands most likely.

I am sorry about this but these are the people that anet listens too. People who don’t know how to play the game and its the reason warrior is trash now.

Warlord.9074:

I am sorry about this but these are the people that anet listens too. People who don’t know how to play the game and its the reason warrior is trash now.

^ This.

I wonder if “Warlord” is bias at all.

Even if you run a mostly defensive build, warrior damage is still more power damage than some of the actual power builds, like melee thief for example.

Spellbreaker really puts this at an extreme. I enjoyed spellbreaker, but it’s clear the damage even with mostly defensive stats is still like you’re running a purely offensive build.

I’ve found warriors in most mmo’s to be this way though. They have ridiculous damage and high sustain because the theme of the class in general isn’t based around magic or anything interesting. So for compensation they wind up getting a ton of offensive and defensive capabilities that never seem to be balanced and just wind up making them king in a lot of player versus player modes.

I get that you’re in melee range putting you at risk, but so are guardians, thieves, and revs, and they don’t have nearly the amount of sustain that warriors have without sacrificing damage.

Honestly spellbreaker seems like the most balanced of the new elites. It’s got interesting mechanics, good options for counterplay, has enough sustain without being immortal, has enough damage without being a murder machine, and feels enjoyable to play.

Don’t feed the troll.

Just wanted to put in my two cents. Playing warrior seems like playing on easy mode of pvp. They get an active endure pain that I think is fine. But then they get a passive endure pain that automatically activates when they get hit too hard. Then to top it off, they get another trait that passively negates a killing blow and heals them instead. Those passives gotta go. It’s easy mode and it’s lame AF.

Hot Boy.7138:

Just wanted to put in my two cents. Playing warrior seems like playing on easy mode of pvp. They get an active endure pain that I think is fine. But then they get a passive endure pain that automatically activates when they get too hard. Then to top it off, they get another trait that passively negates a killing blow and heals them instead. Those passives gotta go. It’s easy mode and it’s lame AF.

i know right ?

when you seeing warrior just Stand in the face of a power reaper and just facetank it while the reaper unloads everything while also dps eing down its shroud then the Reaper necro…. something is Broken with that sustain…..

Give warrior something else to compensate but that sustain needs toning down….

Hello,

cptaylor.2670:

Will it ever be toned down and actually balanced?

Adrenal Health has been toned down already, and the Berserker spec has been very recently nerfed in terms of PvP/WvW (limiting the effect of adrenaline bars). The core warrior did get a recent buff, exchanging damage for sustain with Might Makes Right (but you have to play vanilla). Is that what you’re talking about?

In general, what do you mean by sustain? Only base health, armor, regeneration? Or do you include elements of gameplay such as blocks, blinds, boons (aegis, protection, resistance), evades, stealth, teleports, mobility, soft/hard control? IMHO, all of these should be relevant to surviving, and the warrior is deprived of many of them.

What class / build are you playing, and against which warrior builds do you have issue (condi/power, core/berserker)? Maybe you have too high exceptations in regards of how your class/build should counter that kind that warrior? Don’t hesitate to share, we may have tips to give!

A warrior has innate resilience and stances, telegraphed attacks, and depending on the build, zero or average mobility (mace condi vs. gs power, possibly with bull’s charge). So basically, the default strategy to fighting a warrior is simple: it is a matter of mitigating burst attacks (learn the animations of the F1s and the way they’re setup), of kiting (do not exchange blows at melee), and having him waste his stances (CD is high, and warrior is a free kill after his stances have been used).

I only play power warrior, don’t know about condi warrior, so here go the matchups for the power warrior only:

• loses against dragon hunters (but can slot the Signet of Might to help a bit) and mesmers,
• is at disavantage against druids, power revenants and power eles, and all sort of condi builds who know how to kite Berserker’s Stance,
• cannot kill nor be killed by a scrapper or a support ele (obviously),
• usually dominates necros and thieves, unless the thief knows to read and deal with CDs (patience is key).

If you enjoy duelling, I suggest you go scrapper, or to a lesser extent, mesmer. These are very good at fighting 1v1s.

HTH.

Hot Boy.7138:

Just wanted to put in my two cents. Playing warrior seems like playing on easy mode of pvp. They get an active endure pain that I think is fine. But then they get a passive endure pain that automatically activates when they get hit too hard. Then to top it off, they get another trait that passively negates a killing blow and heals them instead. Those passives gotta go. It’s easy mode and it’s lame AF.

Those are 2 invulns anyone with a working brain can work around.Besides that other trait you talk about is only available in berserk traitline,but im sure you knew that.

@Zoltreez Maybe you should stop attacking/play defensive/take distance when you see an invuln up that counters your build untill it wears off ? Just saying something random,no idea if that can help out though -.. ..- — -… .- … …

Hot Boy.7138:

Just wanted to put in my two cents. Playing warrior seems like playing on easy mode of pvp. They get an active endure pain that I think is fine. But then they get a passive endure pain that automatically activates when they get hit too hard. Then to top it off, they get another trait that passively negates a killing blow and heals them instead. Those passives gotta go. It’s easy mode and it’s lame AF.

Why does Warrior always get crap for having instant activate passive sustain when half of the classes in the game have them as well. It’s especially laughable since while even traited the Defy Pain only lasts 2 and a half seconds. Meanwhile Ranger has a trait that does the same thing but with a longer CD but lasts longer. Complaining about EP and DP is even more confusing when we are currently in a mostly condi meta and most of the elite specs are condi which those traits can do nothing against. Many classes class have some sort of “save your life at x%,” which I’m in favor of removing but the last 4 or so years it’s almost always Warrior being complained about. It’s even more confusing because there’s a ton of counterplay to it. You know its coming at 50%, so get them there then stop your combo for 2 seconds or just play condi and strip the Resistance from Berserker Stance. Warriors don’t spam nearly as many boons as other classes.

ANet finally added a trait in Might Makes right which might allow players to go Strength – Discipline/Defense – Spellbreaker/Berserker instead of just always being Defense and Discipline and now people instantly want it nerfed. It seems like people on these forums just want Warrior to go back to launch where they were never played. I’d be cool if Warriors got nerfed…but only if everything else in the game gets nerfed too.

Hell, Spellbreaker seems like the only Elite Spec coming out that isn’t blatantly weak or overtuned. You can choose to counter one type of build and be very good at it at the cost of being effective against other builds. Meanwhile we have Scourge and Holosmith going around on generalist builds that are strong against most anything.

Before anyone says anything yes I am a Warrior main, but I play other classes as well and just want every class to have a handful of viable builds that are roughly the same power. It feels like ANet knew several elite specs were too strong and designed Spellbreaker to be the spec to counter them if built for it and people are already trying to kill it.

Might makes right needs to give less adrenaline per night stack. The healing is fine. The fact that warrior is now the equivalent of Acro Staff thief isn’t. Also, most Spellbreaker builds do drop discipline for strength and defense.

Did they buff endure pain? Feels like I encounter it about 4 times before getting rektd (at least with spell breaker)

OlrunTheBlade.1486:

Might makes right needs to give less adrenaline per night stack.

Might makes Right doesn’t give adrenaline.

Also warriors have been complaining about being glued to discipline for years now, and ArenaNet finally gets it to where discipline isn’t a mandatory pick and people are flipping out.

Warrior sustain is fine, Warrior damage is fine. If it gets nerfed anymore the class won’t even be viable in silver tier.

And this is coming from someone who doesn’t even main warrior.

Dear cptaylor,

Learn to play.

Sincerely,
The least used class in high level competitive, Warrior.

Sorry, I meant endurance. The mention of Acro Staff Thief is clearly building off of that.

might makes right will only be used until POF comes out then every war will most likely be spellbreaker but it destroys mesmers/ele/druids. Maybe some will still run core war with strength line but they will be minority. So why even bother talking about a trait only a small number of warriors will take after Sep 22?

Besides Might Makes Right is only really strong when used in WvW with the appropriate food. In PvP its meh.

Spellbreaker with zerker runes is a bunker build. A 1v1 between two of them lasts forever. Might makes right, defense line, infinite blocks and dodges… Yeah, here we go.

They should nerf heal and dmg little, 10-20%. Spellbreaker is freaking beast.

Yeah. Let’s nerf one of the worst classes in the meta right now. If you guys were to put in as much time learning how to play than you do kittening on forums, you’d be better. God this community is stupid.

Edit: Spellbreaker gets pooped on by heavy condi pressure and boon strips.

Learn to play, Spellbreaker is balanced.

GhandiBot.6257:

Yeah. Let’s nerf one of the worst classes in the meta right now. If you guys were to put in as much time learning how to play than you do kittening on forums, you’d be better. God this community is stupid.

sory but the worst class Medal goes to necro…….

Ragnarox.9601:

They should nerf heal and dmg little, 10-20%. Spellbreaker is freaking beast.

Heaven forbid that one of the PoF specs actually be competitive against HoT specs.

Zoltreez.6435:

GhandiBot.6257:

Yeah. Let’s nerf one of the worst classes in the meta right now. If you guys were to put in as much time learning how to play than you do kittening on forums, you’d be better. God this community is stupid.

sory but the worst class Medal goes to necro…….

I am going to be very frank with you.
You have a L2P issue.
You want to know why?
Because, you are saying that Warriors heal so much?
You know what has even happened to warrior as a whole?
On the power side Warriors had gotten:

Adreanal Health
Endure Pain
Primal Bursts
Headbutt
Shield Skills
Mace
Axe
Greatsword

Nerfs. All of these things that made Power Warrior relevant got nerfed. Don’t believe me? Go to the wiki and look at the most recent patches and look at all of those things that I just listed get nerf. Some of them had cooldowns adjusted, heals toned down, animations fix so they are slower so they can be countered. It is so bad that Warrior has NO meta build. Again, don’t believe me? Go look at metabattle, click Conquest and go look in the Meta section of the builds and tell me if Warrior is there. Go on, tell me. I’ll wait.

I understand PoF stuff looks scary, but seriously, having a thread being written saying Warrior is ‘out of control’ and then people like you guys AGREEING with him, makes me really sit down here and actually wonder if you are legit serious right now. Honestly, you guys are looking at the one dude that was trying to make the case that Ventari Rev was actually threat and he came off as laughable at best.

Both power warrior and condi warrior is underwhelming. Power more so than condi.

Necroes rip through their boons.
Scrappers thunderclap them with a CC follow up by either a DPS class or another CC heavy class
Mesmer dances around them
Thief chain CC kills them with another DPS class
Ele heals through their damage or straight out ignore it
Guardians simply laugh at it
Rangers simply kite them or heal through their damage

You people are putting up very weak and very unconvincing arguments, so I am curious what kind of rebuttal you have for this.

cptaylor.2670:

I get that you’re in melee range putting you at risk, but so are guardians, thieves, and revs, and they don’t have nearly the amount of sustain that warriors have without sacrificing damage.

And you buddy boy, I’m gonna stop ya right there.
Did you just say Guardians don’t have that much sustain?

AHA!
Whoo, wow that actually was a really funny joke ya got there. Especially because of the fact I’ve seen more full damage guardians last longer than any power warrior I’ve come across.

Warrior was awful. Might Makes Right made it quite strong.

Uh is this post for real? Warrior sustain got nerfed to kitten, might makes right compensates for it a little but last season war was absolute garbage, and it is just mediocre right now.

It’s unbeatable in duels and effective in team fights. It can sustain outnumbered for quite some time. What more do you want?

OlrunTheBlade.1486:

Warrior was awful. Might Makes Right made it quite strong.

Yes, it’s quite true. Might Makes Right’s heal isn’t the powerful part though it’s the endurance gain from it.

OlrunTheBlade.1486:

It’s unbeatable in duels and effective in team fights. It can sustain outnumbered for quite some time. What more do you want?

prety much this… i barely ever see a Warrior go down in a 1v1

most of the time we need to gang up on one and even then they can tank the kitten hell out of us while running around and even kill someone if we don’t have a support with us….

the only time Warriors seem to have issues are with Bomber Mesmers/Thiefs
seriously it feels like warrior are farting heals while fighting one….and still can hit pretty kitten hard…

Zoltreez.6435:

Hot Boy.7138:

Just wanted to put in my two cents. Playing warrior seems like playing on easy mode of pvp. They get an active endure pain that I think is fine. But then they get a passive endure pain that automatically activates when they get too hard. Then to top it off, they get another trait that passively negates a killing blow and heals them instead. Those passives gotta go. It’s easy mode and it’s lame AF.

i know right ?

when you seeing warrior just Stand in the face of a power reaper and just facetank it while the reaper unloads everything while also dps eing down its shroud then the Reaper necro…. something is Broken with that sustain…..

Give warrior something else to compensate but that sustain needs toning down….

Then maybe you shouldn’t be facetanking a warrior then, right? Warrior sustains itself by actually fighting. Imagine that. A class that has to risk something to gain something… which is probably it’s greatest weakness because you know… if those attacks don’t hit… if warriors are kited then those attacks don’t heal.

Ahh pvp forums. Everybody just wants everything nerfed. Then again, I’m not surprised. This bs probably exists in all competitive games… except DotA 2 probably.

It is. Warriors have no ability to disengage (Or suprise-engage), and all their attacks are telegraphed. Their invulnerability – needed to let them actually fight – is on a laughably short duration.

I knew something was wrong that i didnt fail to count the dodges so often

cptaylor.2670:

Will it ever be toned down and actually balanced?

I play warrior. Every time when I am doing in pvp and defeat an enemy who is new here. I don’t think warrior is strong. Why don’t you complain engineer, mesmer or guradian. Those classes are always change the situation of pvp playing.

Zoltreez.6435:

OlrunTheBlade.1486:

It’s unbeatable in duels and effective in team fights. It can sustain outnumbered for quite some time. What more do you want?

prety much this… i barely ever see a Warrior go down in a 1v1

most of the time we need to gang up on one and even then they can tank the kitten hell out of us while running around and even kill someone if we don’t have a support with us….

the only time Warriors seem to have issues are with Bomber Mesmers/Thiefs
seriously it feels like warrior are farting heals while fighting one….and still can hit pretty kitten hard…

Warrior is BY FAR the worst class in spvp right now. Nothing even comes close to be as bad as warrior is right now. Not much else to say here.

Im srry but no, it can not be toned down, both from a balance and design perspective.

From a balance perspective, warrior is designed around sort of soaking damage, that is why its damage output is lower.

From a design perspective, this game heavily leans towards glass cannon builds, that is NOT what you want, you want diversity both in builds and strategies, in a game which meta revolves around glass builds and invulnerabilities, having a class that is designed around being able to soaking damage and extend fights to win, brings diversity to a very stale meta.

Warrior much like Necromancer are built around soaking damage. Learn to deal with it instead of doubling down on your preferred meta.

Juba.8406:

i gonna give you a +1 because i see what you did there.. good one….

Apolo.5942:

Im srry but no, it can not be toned down, both from a balance and design perspective.

From a balance perspective, warrior is designed around sort of soaking damage, that is why its damage output is lower.

From a design perspective, this game heavily leans towards glass cannon builds, that is NOT what you want, you want diversity both in builds and strategies, in a game which meta revolves around glass builds and invulnerabilities, having a class that is designed around being able to soaking damage and extend fights to win, brings diversity to a very stale meta.

Warrior much like Necromancer are built around soaking damage. Learn to deal with it instead of doubling down on your preferred meta.

Necromancer is paper compared to a warrior…… just saying..

and warrior can dissengage fights not like necro…..

also a warrior has better mobility…

and 43672447 CC

something needs to go…..

So is the supposed tankyness of warriors referring to base warriors running defense, strength and discipline? And is the critique from the perspective of power classes?

I found that i could kill warriors as condi reaper. Usually with backup but if the warrior was sufficiently unskilled as to try to tank plaguelands, it was also possible for me to solo one.

Zoltreez.6435:

Apolo.5942:

Im srry but no, it can not be toned down, both from a balance and design perspective.

From a balance perspective, warrior is designed around sort of soaking damage, that is why its damage output is lower.

From a design perspective, this game heavily leans towards glass cannon builds, that is NOT what you want, you want diversity both in builds and strategies, in a game which meta revolves around glass builds and invulnerabilities, having a class that is designed around being able to soaking damage and extend fights to win, brings diversity to a very stale meta.

Warrior much like Necromancer are built around soaking damage. Learn to deal with it instead of doubling down on your preferred meta.

Necromancer is paper compared to a warrior…… just saying..

and warrior can dissengage fights not like necro…..

also a warrior has better mobility…

and 43672447 CC

something needs to go…..

Dissengagin with warrior is arguable, the only weapon with access to mobility skills is the GS. As for necro being paper thin, i whole heartedly digress, that is the again the glass canon mentality that plagues this game.

I play necro and warrior both, if you build them for sustain, they are both comparable.

The real problem comes from people running full zerker/vipers, trying to come up and blow up a tougher necro or warrior and bouncing off.

This is good for the game, you want to run a full offensive build, that is ok, but you should not be able to go toe to toe against sturdier builds, you should be a target of opportunity assassin.

If glass cannons would be able to go 1 on 1 against everything, then where would be no reason to build anything else.

In an ideal world you would have.
1- Assassins aka, full offensive builds that can not fight sustained combats neither and only sort of fight 1v1s but that can close up and take out targets of opportunity reliably.

2- Duelers aka, mid rage bruisers that can reliably engage 1v1. This is where warriors and necros built for it currently stand.

3- Tanks aka, damage soakers and support buffers, much like the druid is/was (have not played one in a while).

Sadly, the mentality of the developers and players in general has been to promote (1) in detriment of everything else. I mean, this is not rocket science, mobas/action games have been based around this, since like forever.

This thread reads like.

-Necromancers: Warrior is too stronk plz nerf

-Mesmer: Ehh warrior is so so, just learn to play against it ( shatters into pieces )

Guardians: Lol warriors cant even get through my l33t heal/block game bro l2p ( picks up 12 shields)

Thieves: You can dodge everything, its so slow! (gulps redbull laced coffee)

Revanents: I remember when everyone wanted me nerfed ( cries in a corner holding a picture frame of memories)

Rangers: If you shoot it from spawn it dies..oh and heal…and go walk the dog..and…

Warriors: You tryin to get me nerfed again necro?!?! WTF BRO!! ( charges like an angry bull)

In short.
Paper meet scissors.
Their is a reason people are hoping on the condi train and they nerfed power warrior to bicycle status.

Zoltreez.6435:

OlrunTheBlade.1486:

It’s unbeatable in duels and effective in team fights. It can sustain outnumbered for quite some time. What more do you want?

prety much this… i barely ever see a Warrior go down in a 1v1

most of the time we need to gang up on one and even then they can tank the kitten hell out of us while running around and even kill someone if we don’t have a support with us….

the only time Warriors seem to have issues are with Bomber Mesmers/Thiefs
seriously it feels like warrior are farting heals while fighting one….and still can hit pretty kitten hard…

So youre all baddies ? That explains alot.

Must be hard for you to accept some others are just better than you,so you start looking at ways to explain why this or that happend so you dont hurt your own little ego that likes to make you believe you’re the best !

… Warrior is my most played class…

Warrior is by a comically massive margin the easiest class in the game to kite away from.

If you are fighting a melee tank class in a battle of attrition you have a gitgud problem, not a balance problem.

DAM the guy that posted this must be a really bad player… as a warrior try to fight a good mesmer… not even pro, i mean warriors at this point r not even in the lowest tier… they r in kitten tier brah… learn to play the game and dont be so bad… my recomendation to u.

Now i havn’t read all the replys here. I actually only read a little of the first page. I main warrior and with this most recent balance patch I am complete gargbage now. I can barely pull 190k damage a match with zerker. Before that patch i was pulling a minimum of 360k with an upwards of 450k. Now i dont know if thats alot im just stating my facts. Im dropping the zerker line to go core after i type this but man im ******* P/O. It was hard enough dealing with some of those other classes before this patch. Now it just like F your warrior, take it up the a**! Who cares if i have self healing if i cant ******* output damage to kill. Warrior did= run and gun. Now its warrior=******* grandma going to get groceries with a ******* stroller.