(edited by Kreedz.8127)
Warriors are Rooted...
Yes, I agree with OP. Melee classes (not just warriors) should have a minimum of rooted channeling skills, as its a liability to them—their damage and ability to even hit comes from having to be in melee range. To counter, ranged classes already have their own CC or pushback or w/e. Ideally all melee skills should be instant cast or near instant cast, save for a few special skills. There’s already cooldown to control the frequency of usage. Even if it gets changed to less damage, it makes playing more fluid and gets rid of frustration. Rooted channelling skills should be more of a ranged/caster thing.
I agree, a melee skill that holds your character in place while doing it is nonsense, even if it’s suposed to be balanced out by huge damage, like HB. But really, skills like Staggering blow?!
On the other hand Heartseeker offers crazy mobility… And no, I don’t want to make this another thief vs warrior topic, I’m just giving an example…
I can accept Killshot rooting you, but all the other skills mentioned up there should not root you, it’s especially annoying on Staggering blow (hammer #4)
Yes, the number of self-rooting skills is just sheer nonsense.
It’s somewhat justifiable on Kill Shot and Hundred Blades, but everything else doesn’t even come close to justifying the self-rooting effect. ESPECIALLY the hammer skills. They’re incredibly slow and hit only once, meaning they’re both easy to dodge on reaction and easy to mitigate with blinds or aegis, plus their only real high points are their CC effects which can also be mitigated with stability! So many risk factors for so little reward, what’s the point?
This is on top of the fact that we don’t get any really good gap closers like thieves do (with steal, shadowstep, and heartseeker), and we have no instant CC effects (even bola can be dodged!). To put it another way, it doesn’t take very much skill to completely shut down a warrior, whereas it takes an astronomical level of skill to shut down a thief.
Even if all the self-rooting effects were removed from warrior skills, we’d still have predictability issues keeping us from viability in tPvP.
Back Breaker doesn’t root a Warrior.
Tremor doesn’t root a warrior.
(edited by Defektive.7283)
Back Breaker doesn’t room a Warrior.
Tremor doesn’t root a warrior.
This.
Considering the information is incorrect, the legitimacy of the rest of the post is called into question. From experience, my mobility is quite high, and the root effects that are imposed only serve to make me think about how I want to use something before I use it, instead of mindlessly spamming because the ability does everything for me.
And that’s how I want it.
Alduin Nightsong, 80 Human Necro
“He’s like a man with a fork in a world of soup.”
“He’s like a man with a fork in a world of soup.”
This.
Considering the information is incorrect, the legitimacy of the rest of the post is called into question. From experience, my mobility is quite high, and the root effects that are imposed only serve to make me think about how I want to use something before I use it, instead of mindlessly spamming because the ability does everything for me.
And that’s how I want it.
That doesn’t make any sense.
Like I said, the skills are slow enough that they can be dodged on reaction. The self-root is just adding insult to injury. I can’t even find a reason to justify the self-root on Back Breaker, the KB doesn’t take anyone out of the fight for more than a second and the damage is nothing amazing, either. And Hammer Shock self-rooting when it’s the ONLY gap closer on hammer outside of the burst skill is hilarious. Talk about self-defeating!
I would be okay with self-rooting if and only if the skills were sped up to be less bloody easy to dodge. It’s incredibly embarrassing to have half your skills miss because your opponent doesn’t have the reflexes of a damp squib.
This.
Considering the information is incorrect, the legitimacy of the rest of the post is called into question. From experience, my mobility is quite high, and the root effects that are imposed only serve to make me think about how I want to use something before I use it, instead of mindlessly spamming because the ability does everything for me.
And that’s how I want it.
That doesn’t make any sense.
Like I said, the skills are slow enough that they can be dodged on reaction. The self-root is just adding insult to injury. I can’t even find a reason to justify the self-root on Back Breaker, the KB doesn’t take anyone out of the fight for more than a second and the damage is nothing amazing, either. And Hammer Shock self-rooting when it’s the ONLY gap closer on hammer outside of the burst skill is hilarious. Talk about self-defeating!
I would be okay with self-rooting if and only if the skills were sped up to be less bloody easy to dodge. It’s incredibly embarrassing to have half your skills miss because your opponent doesn’t have the reflexes of a damp squib.
I guess I’ll have to repeat this again.
Back Breaker does not root a Warrior.
Edit: I bolded it this time so maybe you’d read it instead of just replying.
How could you ever consider Hammer Shock a gap closer? It’s a snare, and a cone-effect at that. Even if you’re rooted for the animation, the enemy is still snared.
Also, why should Hammer have two gap closers? As a GS/Hammer Warrior who uses Bull’s Charge (but no Frenzy), I effectively have 4, and two snares.
If you’re embarrassed that your abilities are being dodged, try using them differently. Odds are, you’re doing the same old combo at the same old time, potentially right when you get into range (when someone’s most tee’d up to dodge away from Warrior combos).
I feel like the only one who doesn’t have a problem when people dodge my abilities, because I have so many abilities they need to dodge, lest start knocking them around like a ragdoll.
Either way, I’m just posting an alternative opinion to the OP. If they buff Hammers for tPvP reasons or something, then that just puts me in a better place, so whatever. However, too many Warriors are far too predictable, so I’d analyze my own play before saying some root is the cause of whiffing so much.
There’s a reason Warriors are the easiest class for Warriors to kill.
Alduin Nightsong, 80 Human Necro
“He’s like a man with a fork in a world of soup.”
“He’s like a man with a fork in a world of soup.”
I guess I’ll have to repeat this again.
Back Breaker does not root a Warrior.
Edit: I bolded it this time so maybe you’d read it instead of just replying.
My bad, I meant Staggering Blow. Brain fart.
How could you ever consider Hammer Shock a gap closer? It’s a snare, and a cone-effect at that. Even if you’re rooted for the animation, the enemy is still snared.
I consider anything that helps reduce the distance between me and my target a “gap closer”. This includes snares and immobilizes.
Also, why should Hammer have two gap closers? As a GS/Hammer Warrior who uses Bull’s Charge (but no Frenzy), I effectively have 4, and two snares.
What do you mean “two gap closers”? Burst skill doesn’t count, it can’t be used unless you already have adrenaline, which defeats the purpose of a gap closer (i.e. getting up close when the enemy is already out of range). Plus it’s also slow with its long wind-up AND it’s completely useless on anything other than level ground thanks to its completely horizontal AoE.
If you’re embarrassed that your abilities are being dodged, try using them differently. Odds are, you’re doing the same old combo at the same old time, potentially right when you get into range (when someone’s most tee’d up to dodge away from Warrior combos).
I feel like the only one who doesn’t have a problem when people dodge my abilities, because I have so many abilities they need to dodge, lest start knocking them around like a ragdoll.
I don’t know who you’re fighting against, because it’s ridiculously easy to just repeatedly blind a warrior or time your blocks or otherwise just avoid warrior damage when you can see every single one coming. Only scrubs dodge at the first sign of attack. Fortunately, there are a lot of scrubs out there!
Either way, I’m just posting an alternative opinion to the OP. If they buff Hammers for tPvP reasons or something, then that just puts me in a better place, so whatever. However, too many Warriors are far too predictable, so I’d analyze my own play before saying some root is the cause of whiffing so much.
There’s a reason Warriors are the easiest class for Warriors to kill.
Bolded for emphasis.
Think about that for a second. What does that tell you? It tells me that we’re so bloody awful that our only good match-up is against ourselves. THAT is a problem.
Every other class has something they are good against that isn’t just their own bloody class (with the possible exception of rangers).
It’s really tiresome to read arguments that essentially boil down to “just play better!”, of course ignoring the fact that it’s just so easy to counter everything I have that I have to work harder on warrior than I do on almost any other class. And this is supposed to be the “easy” class! Hah!
Without touching on balancing at all, rooting in general is just something that should only be used with a skill’s design as a last resort, for when it’s just too good otherwise, and you need a mechanic to give your opponent the chance to counter it. HB is like this, as it is now. Kill Shot? Eh… Not really, but it’s not a big deal, as you’re telegraphing the move to begin with; being rooted isn’t going to make a difference with such an easy to see skill already. Personally, I’d just have Kill Shot slow your character down some. As far as the Warrior goes, I can’t think of any other skills that would ever necessitate rooting you.
I imagine most of these rooting mechanics are very old, archaic design relics from early alphas. Warrior, being the “central” profession for early balancing, suffers a great deal of old design theory that no longer really holds up in execution. Other professions have more specific traits, sometimes more specifically geared moves, fewer movement problems, fewer overall “locked” movement skills (not just roots, but things like Rush, Bull’s Rush, Whirlwind Swing and so on). It’s easy to just say “Well, that’s what the class does.” But I personally think they’re just old, defunct ideas that were never important enough to be changed (which is risky) prior to a release.
It’s something they’ll have to look at, over time. The rooting problem though? That’s fairly simple, and there’s no real logic to it anymore. It needs to be removed from most skills. But personally, I’m more concerned about making more skills viable, rather than mucking about with such small individual skill mechanics. As far as Warriors go, I’d like to see more builds become viable other than healing shouts, which means pulling things like banners, stances and signets out of the trash bin and fleshing out the idea behind them all a little more. Not buffing necessarily, just moving them out of their old alpha versions and into 2012-13, where everyone should be.