Guild Wars 2

The major reason that conditions have overtaken power as the preferred way of dealing damage is that there is no way to reduce its effectiveness. Yes, you can remove the conditions but for several classes even running the maximum condition removal options for their class they are still easily overwhelmed. Even with recent changes such as warriors having the duration of Berserker Stance increased smart players have gotten wise and simply fall back/block/stealth until that 8 seconds is over. For around a week Necros and Engis had good reason to fear a warrior with a mace but that now that they have adjusted once again that threat has been minimized.

It seems that Vitality was intended to be the foil of condition damage, and while having a lot of health does help somewhat there’s a reason you don’t see a ton of people walking around with large HP pools – it simply doesn’t overcome conditions as intended. Counterplay only works when there IS a viable way to counter it.

I can only see two ways conditions stop being the meta, the first is that conditions are nerfed so much that running pure condition builds is not a preferable spec. This would be a bad way to go about this because that would once again make Necromancers a useless PvP class. The second option would be to add a mechanic that acts like toughness but for conditions. The problem is, how do you implement such a mechanic without dramatically changing the game? A new stat like Resistance would totally throw off how gear currently work, or would require many more sets of armor/Amulets be made with this new trait.

This would be interesting to see, considering it would mean that the meta would shift to always having Resistance to counter conditions, which would temporarily shift the meta away from conditions because they would be less damaging. This would also meen if you wanted to be the best bunker possible you would want +Vitality +Toughness +Resistance in order to not be weak to anything, meaning that you probably would never kill anything but could hold off against multiple foes (which is what a bunker should be, unlike currently).

The problem with this, like mentioned earlier, is that it would require A LOT of work be done. So much I doubt it would look like an appealing idea from a Dev standpoint. Perhaps a simpler solution would be to do away with the Concentration in trait bonuses and to add Resistance there instead. Once again though, some players may enjoy that bonus in their builds. Perhaps give some classes a trait that reduces the damage of conditions the more that are on you.

These are just a few ideas off the top of my head, please give your ideas/feedback as well. So long as this current meta that encourages nothing but mindless spamming persists the less interesting PvP becomes.

We need overall dmg reduce in pvp…

Burning is actually the only condition, that is outstanding. Condition-speccs without it have no chance to be successfull (see engi/necros). Therefore it should be reduced a bit in duration or damage. The rest of the conditions are not a big deal (weakness mabye).

Ever tried to play a necro before patch? Without burning the damage was fine, but definitely not overhelming. Or the engineer? His access to burning was the key-element of this build (and is still).

Condition counteracts with cleanses, regeneration and incoming condition redution.
for all classes exists gears and foods that counteracts conditions.

About Engineer, i think the big problem are the tons of heals, cleanses, and turrets CC all time. They camp in a point and become unkilable.
Necros in my opinion couldn’t have so stronger burning. This class rip 25k+ hp in few seconds, and that perma fear and all those minions…

Empathetic Fighter.2065:

Burning is actually the only condition, that is outstanding. Condition-speccs without it have no chance to be successfull (see engi/necros). Therefore it should be reduced a bit in duration or damage. The rest of the conditions are not a big deal (weakness mabye).

Ever tried to play a necro before patch? Without burning the damage was fine, but definitely not overhelming. Or the engineer? His access to burning was the key-element of this build (and is still).

I agree that main dps comes from burning, at least on engineer. Poison, bleeding, and confusion do low-mediocre. You gotta be kidding me though if your saying you wanna nerf burning cause thats what makes our specs viable.

It is better to burn inflicted the same damage as a poison, but it slowly burned endurance.

Penguin.5197:

Empathetic Fighter.2065:

Burning is actually the only condition, that is outstanding. Condition-speccs without it have no chance to be successfull (see engi/necros). Therefore it should be reduced a bit in duration or damage. The rest of the conditions are not a big deal (weakness mabye).

Ever tried to play a necro before patch? Without burning the damage was fine, but definitely not overhelming. Or the engineer? His access to burning was the key-element of this build (and is still).

I agree that main dps comes from burning, at least on engineer. Poison, bleeding, and confusion do low-mediocre. You gotta be kidding me though if your saying you wanna nerf burning cause thats what makes our specs viable.

The problem with burning is that it can be applied too frequently, especially on the engineer. So what I suggest is to lower the duration of it. However this has to be done very carefully and doesn’t need heavy changes. I’m fully aware that burning makes certain speccs viable, therefore again: It has to be treated very carefully.

PS: I wasn’t call for a nerf, but for little tweaks. So please read proper

Still don’t see why its important for necro’s to burn in a post-torment world.
4 stacks of torment can basically cause the same effect if someones moving, but Torment has a ramp up time as stacks are built (though there isn’t a lot of skills that apply it atm) and does less damage if a person is rooting themself.

Leave the burn to the professions that aren’t as varied with conditions, eg Guardian, Ele, Warrior. They require a condition that powerful when they have pretty much nothing else to go alongside it.

If you don’t know ways to reduce condition dmg, it’s a L2P issue.

There are tons of traits, utilities, sigils, runes, and healing options that remove conditions or make you totally immune.

The problem is that the game was so heavily weighted to classes with direct damage for so long that all these runes, sigils, etc. were wasted programming because nobody used them.

Now…people come whine on the forum because they can’t deal with conditions without using any of the things in the game that designed to offset conditions.

You can’t have it both ways.

I’m going to give you a tip and this may be quite a shocking revelation given how the game was played for almost a year….

“It’s possible for you to lose 1v1 to condition builds now and specs/professions that rely on conditions are now viable.”

Maybe you haven’t been globalled by a grenade engineer or kill shot by a warrior, but power/crit builds are still dealing massive damage too.

The problem with this game isn’t that condition damage is too high. It’s that direct damage was too high and so they “fixed” it by making conditions equally strong. Now people have BOTH sources of damage to deal with in a fraction of the time needed for average players.

SPESHAL.9106:

Maybe you haven’t been globalled by a grenade engineer or kill shot by a warrior, but power/crit builds are still dealing massive damage too.

wait what, we’re talking about PvP right?

Defektive.7283:

SPESHAL.9106:

Maybe you haven’t been globalled by a grenade engineer or kill shot by a warrior, but power/crit builds are still dealing massive damage too.

wait what, we’re talking about PvP right?

I sure am, I mean, it’s the SPvP forum. I’m pretty sure I’ve never seen a viable Kill Shot warrior. To deal that giant crit requires being as fragile as a glass thief with none of the sustain. Saying something is a L2P issue then saying something like that is a good way to have me take nothing you say seriously.

BurrTheKing.8571:

Defektive.7283:

SPESHAL.9106:

Maybe you haven’t been globalled by a grenade engineer or kill shot by a warrior, but power/crit builds are still dealing massive damage too.

wait what, we’re talking about PvP right?

I sure am, I mean, it’s the SPvP forum. I’m pretty sure I’ve never seen a viable Kill Shot warrior. To deal that giant crit requires being as fragile as a glass thief with none of the sustain. Saying something is a L2P issue then saying something like that is a good way to have me take nothing you say seriously.

Now I’m just incredibly confused. Can we still be friends?

BurrTheKing.8571:

I sure am, I mean, it’s the SPvP forum. I’m pretty sure I’ve never seen a viable Kill Shot warrior. To deal that giant crit requires being as fragile as a glass thief with none of the sustain. Saying something is a L2P issue then saying something like that is a good way to have me take nothing you say seriously.

Then I suggest you stay on the forums and keep whining instead of playing the game.

It’s clearly a waste of time for anyone to help you understand how to deal with condition damage or point out the hypocrisy of your post.

Your agenda is clear. Playing the game will just give you more aggravation and reasons to rage-quit, so please stay logged out for your own health.

In regards to the opening in the OP.

They stealth or block for 8 seconds? I didn’t realize Necros could do either of these.

Engis – could blow 2 blocks for 5 seconds. That’s 3 seconds where you better land something to set up your stunlock.

Falling back? You’re a STUNLOCK Warrior, stun them! How they falling back if they can’t move?

Or lets pretend they ran off because you failed to hold them in place. Now they are out of the team fight – sounds like mission accomplished still. 8+ seconds of the odds in your teams favor is good, capitalize on it or fail like you deserve.

AOE condition spam is kittened, but it’s definitely not crippling my Warrior. My Engi on the other hand cries when he sees a good Necro.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Vitality

SPESHAL.9106:

If you don’t know ways to reduce condition dmg, it’s a L2P issue.

There are tons of traits, utilities, sigils, runes, and healing options that remove conditions or make you totally immune.

The problem is that the game was so heavily weighted to classes with direct damage for so long that all these runes, sigils, etc. were wasted programming because nobody used them.

Now…people come whine on the forum because they can’t deal with conditions without using any of the things in the game that designed to offset conditions.

You can’t have it both ways.

I’m going to give you a tip and this may be quite a shocking revelation given how the game was played for almost a year….

“It’s possible for you to lose 1v1 to condition builds now and specs/professions that rely on conditions are now viable.”

Maybe you haven’t been globalled by a grenade engineer or kill shot by a warrior, but power/crit builds are still dealing massive damage too.

The problem with this game isn’t that condition damage is too high. It’s that direct damage was too high and so they “fixed” it by making conditions equally strong. Now people have BOTH sources of damage to deal with in a fraction of the time needed for average players.

I’ve actually stopped running my condi clears because spending all those points or skill slots into it and then still dieing to condis is frustrating. Felt like a bunch of wasted points.

I went glass cannon instead and just try to avoid condis.

Pre patch I could stay in the middle of a fight with 30sa and fight people and stay alive and keep up with condis. Except wells and nades. Now, it’s not possible. Just rather stay on the fringe and pick people off than try to stealth in and out.

It’s not an l2p issue. Condis and access to condis have been seriously buffed and condi removal has stayed the same.

I’ve adapted, but you explanation is wrong. I just play a different build now because clearing condis was pointless because it didn’t do a good enough job post patch. I was during to a burning every time.

matjazmuhic.1649:

We need overall dmg reduce in pvp…

yay, more bunkers

matjazmuhic.1649:

We need overall dmg reduce in pvp…

yes lets have it so who ever captures a point first will be able to hold it forever because no one has the damage to kill the bunkers

This game really is something else. I left for a few months due to the insane burst damage possible from some classes. Came back last week and was immediately blown away at how condi spam is now the cool thing. Games heavily populated by Engis and Necros, which when I left before were the least played profs. Not sure how many people they have on the PvP team or how long it will take them to realize they need some sort of a public test realm, but it just seems they can’t get it right. Time for another break, I guess. Maybe when I come back it’ll be a purely retaliation meta where everyone is too afraid to attack people at all, lest they get blown up by their own skills, because honestly at this point, I wouldn’t be surprised lol

I think there are 3 relatively decent ideas.

1 is to add power/toughness/precision and power/critdamage/toughness amulets to the game. This would make more balanced power builds a thing and compete with rabid amulets for condition classes. The issue is the game was balanced/designed without these stat options in mind.

2 Add more passive condition removal through traits to professions. The issue here is those traits would become must take traits which would make 1 traitline on each profession automatically favored. For example empathic bond even at grandmaster is so powerful almost every competitive ranger specs 30 points into wilderness survival.

3 Make all utilities/traits that remove conditions remove 1 more or something. Like cleansing formula 409 now removes 2 condis per elixer. Shake it off removes 2 conditions on yourself and everyone in the area. The problem here is that it still probably isn’t that good at removing conditions and other traits are balanced with the lesser value in mind. Almost makes them must run.

Defektive.7283:

BurrTheKing.8571:

Defektive.7283:

SPESHAL.9106:

Maybe you haven’t been globalled by a grenade engineer or kill shot by a warrior, but power/crit builds are still dealing massive damage too.

wait what, we’re talking about PvP right?

I sure am, I mean, it’s the SPvP forum. I’m pretty sure I’ve never seen a viable Kill Shot warrior. To deal that giant crit requires being as fragile as a glass thief with none of the sustain. Saying something is a L2P issue then saying something like that is a good way to have me take nothing you say seriously.

Now I’m just incredibly confused. Can we still be friends?

Sure, BFFs.

Conditions hate on bunker builds and are good for the game…. Imo warriors are the only class that are completely at a loss as far as conditions go, but the class is sub par anyway.

If anything needs to go or be changed it is the new weakness and the ability for engi to both bunker and be crazy mobile. Also keep in mind its 30pts for necro burn on crit 10 for engi.