Guild Wars 2

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/info/news/Game-Update-Notes-December-14-2012/first#post999247

Class balance philosophies

Warrior

We want the Warrior to be capable of good melee damage in a sturdy body.

…Warrior? Sturdy body? Is that really what ArenaNet believes in? Newsflash: Warriors are extremely discriminated against in tournament PvP. There is a stigma against allowing Warriors on teams because they are so glassy, and yet they must be built glassy in order to accomplish anything. That is the dilemma.

The Warrior’s role in a team also overlaps with Thieves, and Thieves eclipse Warriors in every department: more reliable burst on single targets, more flexibility in utility options, and more survivability. Yes, Thieves have more survivability.

If a Thief makes one wrong move, they can shadowstep out / shadow return. Another wrong move and they can swap to shortbow, shadow shot up an impossible-to-reach ledge. A third wrong move and they can stealth and disengage. Thieves, like almost every class (EXCEPT WARRIORS) have several “oh-crap” panic buttons that they can fall back on in case shlt hits the fan and you need to reset the fight. What happens when a Warrior makes one wrong move? They simply die, because there is no option to disengage. There is no panic button. There’s a “Please kill me now” frenzy button, but there’s no survivability option.
———————————————————————————————————————————

Possible fixes?

Heal. ArenaNet likes to gloat about Warrior’s high maximum HP pool, but it doesn’t help if their heal recovers less than 1/4 of their HP on an absurdly long cooldown relative to other classes. It’s the Warrior that is forced to go baIIs deep into an enemy team fight to do something useful; they are the ones that need a strong, reliable heal…not the ranged classes that are safe as can be but have 60% HP pool heals on 15 second cooldowns. Decrease the cast time on the heal, make the heal signet actually useful, do something about the heal. SOMETHING.

Shield. This weapon is mandatory for Warriors because they must put themselves in constant, irreversible danger to accomplish anything in team fights. However, the block is rendered absolutely useless when a Necromancer uses Wail of Doom with warhorn (totally bypasses and cancels the shield). Many knockback launches like from Elementalist’s tornado will cancel the shield and blow the Warrior away still. Many ground-targeted skills like marks still go through the shield and damage the Warrior. Conditions applied before the shield stance will continue to tick and damage the Warrior when he blocks, and conditions applied via ground abilities from Necromancer still hurt the Warrior even WHEN he is currently blocking and they are applied.

Invulnerability. Warrior’s Endure Pain could be so useful if it reliably did its job, but it doesn’t. Conditions still tick and hurt the Warrior when he goes into invulnerability with Endure Pain. The Warrior is still susceptible to stuns, immobilizes, everything when invulnerable. It doesn’t help that Endure Pain has an absurdly long cooldown for its weak effect. Why does a Mesmer get to have a super invulnerability (evasion status) on a 6 second cooldown?

Defensive Rampage elite rework. The current Rampage was envisioned by ArenaNet to turn the Warrior into a super soldier. Unfortunately, this is not the reality. It makes the Warrior weaker. I want to redefine what it means to be a “super soldier” in competitive PvP. Re design Rampage so that it is essentially the opposite of Signet of Rage, so that it will provide personal defense. Upon use, Rampage will heal the Warrior back up to a certain % HP and grant X seconds of stability, regeneration, and protection that scales with the amount of opponents nearby (Think: Irelia from League of Legends and her Ionian Fervor passive). The more dangerous the situation is, the more Rampage will heal and keep the Warrior safe so that he can continue his role in the team fight. The Warrior will still keep his current skill set; the elite will just amplify his survivability temporarily so that he may continue to make aggressive plays (since it scales, it would encourage more aggressive gameplay from the Warrior).

ArenaNet, do you see the theme here? Warriors are completely r’aped in the bum bum in terms of survivability. The “sturdy body” you wanted Warriors to have is a dream. It’s a myth. For every buff that other classes get each patch (example: Mesmer shatters’ 25 stacks of Might), the problem with Warriors’ survivability grows more and more. Warriors are so messed up right now in the competitive scene, it’s not even funny. Thoughts?

I agree 100%. If they want us to have a problem with conditions and boons then thats fine (we will always be the worst class in the game if we cant remove conditions though).

But at least give warriors SOMETHING to work with by actually making us good at what we should be good at. I 100% agree with OP. Endure pain is laughably bad and needs some serious improvements. The heals are also next to worthless as they dont heal for enough.

Here are my changes:

1, Make the burst heal on the healing signet 30% higher
2, Reduce the cooldown of the healing surge to 25 seconds from 30 seconds
3, Make mending remove 3 conditions not 2 conditions
4, Reduce the cooldown of endure pain to 60 seconds from 90 seconds
5, Improve the rampage ultimate move by making the cooldown 120 seconds from 180 seconds
6, Give warrior sprint a 15% speed buff not a 10% buff
7, Reduce the cooldown of fear me to 60 seconds from 80 seconds (absurdly long)
8, Decrease the cooldown of all banners by 20%
9, Make balanced stance also give protection

Then the warrior might be a “sturdy body” and might be semi viable (although still the worst) in pvp.

in case you’ve missed it

I am not a balance specialist or anything so I don’t know if it would cause any issues but I like the Balance stance giving protection. That’s a good idea. A lot of people use stability when they are stomping, also the exact same time everyone nukes the area to stop the stomp.

I played a war for about a day, so I’m in no way an expert on them, but what you said has a lot of merit. Everyone sees the HB combo and thinks warriors must be OP, but unless it was a group fight and I got charged when I couldn’t see it/prevent it, I can’t remember the last time I lost to a warrior, and this coming from someone who only plays Engi. I feel your pain, but I think you feel it much more than I do. Hope you guys get fixes and I hope someone from development looks at threads like these. Good luck!

My gripe is the blocking being bypassed by several skills. Multiple things will knock you out of the block, I wish it was invulnerability honestly.

I have tons of hours and matches played on warrior. We do have a few niches in tpvp seen. Some of the top teams run warriors pretty often. We are not a broken class, just eclipsed in some areas. And from the sound of AN, conditions will always just be our weakness.

I agree warrior and oh crap button do not go in the same sentence, but we have a lot of cool things going. Few examples:

Damage on dodge rolls and full uptime vigor. Possible and dodging mitigates much more than toughness and other skills.
movement breaks immobilize- very strong.
gs whirlwind attack. 8 second cd 2 sec invulnerability that breaks imobo and deals decent damage
mace stun every 10 seconds
Those are a few of my favorites but we are fully capable of contributing to a team fight.

I play a fair amount of World vs. World, and the lack of any viable escape is the major problem I have with warriors. We cannot stealth, flash away, pop a clone, or have any viable options to ‘reset’ the fight, as the OP stated. As a warrior, once you engage, you are committed until you die, or the other person dies. And it will usually be you, because the other person DOES have viable escapes.

So if they start losing, they use one, and it’s a ‘do-over’. If you start losing? You lose.

I just don’t know what our role in combat is supposed to be. We can be 20% tougher, but are expected to hang around in situations where you take 60% more damage. I find that unless I want to be a burden to my teammates in team fights, I have to pull out a rifle and snipe from the back, otherwise, in melee I get stacked with tons of conditions, have no escape, get killed, and become a burden to revive. Our single-target damage is good, but rarely lands because we are forced into very predictable patterns due to lack of options, and any moderately-skilled player can see us coming and easily counter.

Our survivability in actual fights (not on paper) ends up being low. Our damage is acceptable but easily countered/negated. Our utility in sieges seems to be limited to running supply. We cannot effectively duel due to lack of escapes.

If your team needs damage, call an elementalist (or a thief). If you need survivability, call a mesmer (or a thief). If you need buffs, call a guardian. If you need the enemy debuffed, call a necro. If you need a lot of utility abilities, call any caster (or a thief). If you need none of the above, you’re probably safe to carry a warrior along in your group, so long as things do not get too intense.

Someone remind me why I’m here?

I should ammend the above to state that I am fine with warrior behavior/balance in PvE. I seem to be about as tough as I need to be to fulfill the role of ‘primary damage absorber’ on my teams. But players are much smarter than AI enemies, so most of that warrior toughness evaporates in PvP, and you become the ‘person who buys the casters two extra seconds by always dying first’ role, and that does get old.

That isn’t the Warrior who is UP, it is the thief who is still OP.
Just look at what the thief is supposed to be:

Thieves are the masters of mobility, stealth and high single target damage. They can be very fragile if you counter their stealth with area of effects or large stacks of conditions, but they trade this fragility in order to have some of the highest burst damage in the game. They are able to help allies through traps, venoms and the mobility to flank most encounters.

Fragile? Stealth, this and this
Vulnerable to conditions? this and this

So, they trade nothing to have the highest burst damage in the game. Balanced, uh?

So sorrow I’m not sure if you have played thief or not, but not many people use that trait when going glassy… and that AOE stealth is better as something to stop a stomp or stomp someone, than it is in a heal (basically kitten healing).

KansasFF.9410:

So sorrow I’m not sure if you have played thief or not, but not many people use that trait when going glassy… and that AOE stealth is better as something to stop a stomp or stomp someone, than it is in a heal (basically kitten healing).

None uses Shadow’s Embrace? I hope you are joking. Anyway, we are noway talking about glass cannon thieves, we are talking about what a thief is really capable of and that trait alone in a build with 20 shadow arts point is capable to constantly remove conditions on a thief.

Shadow Refuge is also another incredibly op skill. Using it to revive or stomp someone is a waste. It gives you, when correctly traited, huge heals (when coupled with this on a Stealth thief), complete condition cleansing and 11-12 seconds of stealth to completely reset a fight every 60 seconds or less when traited.

And I’m not considering the stealth-condition P/D thieves who are around these days. They are capable to survive an huge amount of time while having constant healing due to the signet and stealth traits and apply constant bleeding while in stealth due to Caltrops and Uncatchable.

Hearing that thieves are fragile and vulnerable to conditions sounds like a joke to me.

sorrow.2364:

That isn’t the Warrior who is UP, it is the thief who is still OP.
Just look at what the thief is supposed to be:

Thieves are the masters of mobility, stealth and high single target damage. They can be very fragile if you counter their stealth with area of effects or large stacks of conditions, but they trade this fragility in order to have some of the highest burst damage in the game. They are able to help allies through traps, venoms and the mobility to flank most encounters.

Fragile? Stealth, this and this
Vulnerable to conditions? this and this

So, they trade nothing to have the highest burst damage in the game. Balanced, uh?

Yes because a huge AoE cone of 2h kitten is totally justified, it’s kids like you that get my profession nerfed because YOU can’t counter them.

Every patch has been a nerf for Thieves and every patch has been a buff to Warriors, saying you are UP in comparison to Thieves means YOU are unable to play your class correctly.

So I agree Shadow Refuge is OP

bettadenu.5483:

Yes because a huge AoE cone of 2h kitten is totally justified, it’s kids like you that get my profession nerfed because YOU can’t counter them.

Every patch has been a nerf for Thieves and every patch has been a buff to Warriors, saying you are UP in comparison to Thieves means YOU are unable to play your class correctly.

Do you really believe that you are a good player playing your thief and it’s not because the profession is completely OP?

So, that’s because there are bunch of thieves around. Because all Thieves are good players and everyone else should learn his class to counter thief, while thieves can just dodgeroll while in stealth or mash 3 buttons to melt hp bars.

Get real, dude.

bettadenu.5483:

sorrow.2364:

That isn’t the Warrior who is UP, it is the thief who is still OP.
Just look at what the thief is supposed to be:

Thieves are the masters of mobility, stealth and high single target damage. They can be very fragile if you counter their stealth with area of effects or large stacks of conditions, but they trade this fragility in order to have some of the highest burst damage in the game. They are able to help allies through traps, venoms and the mobility to flank most encounters.

Fragile? Stealth, this and this
Vulnerable to conditions? this and this

So, they trade nothing to have the highest burst damage in the game. Balanced, uh?

Yes because a huge AoE cone of 2h kitten is totally justified, it’s kids like you that get my profession nerfed because YOU can’t counter them.

Every patch has been a nerf for Thieves and every patch has been a buff to Warriors, saying you are UP in comparison to Thieves means YOU are unable to play your class correctly.

I lol’d. Like. Really hard. Sorrow hit the nail on the head, no two ways about it. Well played sir.

While I agree that thieves currently feel OP (at least in comparison to other primary melee classes), the point of this thread is to figure out why/how Warriors are UP in PvP, and how to fix it, rather than getting into a nerf/no-nerf discussion about Thieves.

I’m OK with Thieves having higher burst damage and mobility than warriors, but their numerous stealth options really do make them far more survivable in PvP. Survivability isn’t just about HP bars, it can also be a function of how hard you are to hit consistently, and how often you can even be targeted. As it stands, a reasonably-well-played thief is far more survivable than a reasonably well-played warrior, and because thieves have greater mobility, greater damage, greater breadth of utility, the idea that they ALSO have greater survivability than a warrior makes a warrior feel like they have no role in combat at all that can’t be better served by a thief.

Nerfing thieves won’t fix warrior underpoweredness. What we need is a buff to warrior’s toughness/survivability to allow them to survive for longer not only against thief bursts, but all those high-damage situations that the developers seem to want us to be able to last in, but that we currently cannot.

Sasha.3295:

While I agree that thieves currently feel OP (at least in comparison to other primary melee classes), the point of this thread is to figure out why/how Warriors are UP in PvP, and how to fix it, rather than getting into a nerf/no-nerf discussion about Thieves.

I’m OK with Thieves having higher burst damage and mobility than warriors, but their numerous stealth options really do make them far more survivable in PvP. Survivability isn’t just about HP bars, it can also be a function of how hard you are to hit consistently, and how often you can even be targeted. As it stands, a reasonably-well-played thief is far more survivable than a reasonably well-played warrior, and because thieves have greater mobility, greater damage, greater breadth of utility, the idea that they ALSO have greater survivability than a warrior makes a warrior feel like they have no role in combat at all that can’t be better served by a thief.

Nerfing thieves won’t fix warrior underpoweredness. What we need is a buff to warrior’s toughness/survivability to allow them to survive for longer not only against thief bursts, but all those high-damage situations that the developers seem to want us to be able to last in, but that we currently cannot.

To me, no.
We’ll end to a Guardian clone, which is another plague into the GW2 PvP.
The point is that there is no real downside to pick a thief instead of a warrior in tPvP. All pros, no cons.
If they really had worse survivability, than a warrior probably had his place like a sturdier and a bit slower roamer, but it isn’t the case.

Or probably it is the whole class design combined with a single game mode that makes warriors worthless and there is no real fix for this.

I guess I am trying to frame the discussion of ‘What do we want the upside of picking a warrior to be?’ rather than ‘Why would you ever play a warrior when you can play a thief?’

Though both are definitely problems to address, I think we need to answer the first before we can answer the second.

If not survivability, then what should our ‘moment to shine’ be?

Warriors have survivability, that is they can escape just about any situation to run away and survive. They have access to a large amount of gap closers/openers and a trait that makes every single one of them able to break immobilize. Surviving is easy.

The problem is that the warriors greatest strength, sustained damage and pressure, is not matched by being able to mitigate sustained damage and pressure. Due to this the warrior has had to become an extreme burst class to be viable.

Comparing a thief to a warrior is not good for determining what is wrong. Yes, a warrior can be every bit as dangerous as a thief and in some cases even more dangerous because of their sustained damage. The big difference is in the approach.

A thief’s survivability is largely built into the approach. Stealth breaks target and prevents further targeting, and teleports eliminate the need for positioning and spacing.

A warrior does neither of these things. So it is apparent that what warriors require is raw damage mitigation. The question is how can this be added without it feeling like it was tacked on like an afterthought?

One of my ideas was to have a trait that gives protection for every blocked attack. This would give skills like “Counterblow” and “Riposte” much more utility, and skills like “Shield Stance” longevity beyond the duration.

I do look forward to the day when I can live longer and not just survive.

Angriff.1935:

A thief’s survivability is largely built into the approach. Stealth breaks target and prevents further targeting, and teleports eliminate the need for positioning and spacing.

A warrior does neither of these things. So it is apparent that what warriors require is raw damage mitigation. The question is how can this be added without it feeling like it was tacked on like an afterthought?

One of my ideas was to have a trait that gives protection for every blocked attack. This would give skills like “Counterblow” and “Riposte” much more utility, and skills like “Shield Stance” longevity beyond the duration.

I do look forward to the day when I can live longer and not just survive.

This is 100% right on the money. I don’t believe Warriors were ever intended to fully escape fights. Once a Warrior commits to a fight, as long as he wants to be useful, he is irreversibly committed to being in danger, so damage mitigation is of extreme importance. This is why I listed the “possible fixes” as I did – notice the theme is mostly about sustainability and mitigation for IN-THE-FRAY survivability, not so much total escaping mechanisms.

It is the Warrior that is forced to go baIIs deep into an enemy team fight to accomplish anything, so it just makes sense that a Warrior should have the proper tools to be able to do his job without getting exploded. An Elementalist is arguably more of a melee fighter than a Warrior could ever be, in a way, just because Warriors lack those same kinds of tools and potential for IN-THE-FRAY survivability.

Notice how the Warrior in the video can “survive” more or less, by running his a’ss off out of the fight completely, going out of combat to heal back up, then finally returning to the fight. He does this again and again and again because he needs to. While an Elementalist can essentially sit in the middle of an enemy team and /dance all day, Warriors lack the necessary tools to accomplish their role in team fights.

Interpret Interrupt.3824:

full uptime vigor.

What?

/15char

This thread is missing the obligatory request to have rampage removed or completely reworked as an elite. Few elites in this game actually make you WORSE off; rampage is one of these.

Recently.1043:

This thread is missing the obligatory request to have rampage removed or completely reworked as an elite. Few elites in this game actually make you WORSE off; rampage is one of these.

I’ve already said Rampage should work like Rampage as one with the same cool down as it. Then warriors would use it a bit often than the cookie cutter signet of rage, but I am guessing the developers think it might be too overpowered in pvp. That’s what I am guessing right now since they ignored what I said about tweaking rampage for warriors, but how can it be overpowered when it has such a long cool down?

Brutalistik.6473:

I’ve already said Rampage should work like Rampage as one with the same cool down as it.

… Warriors don’t need yet another source of damage steroids. It’s the in-the-fray survivability that Warriors are really lacking. They are inherently designed to be exposed to danger constantly, since they are required to go into melee range to do their role in team fights.

Just look at Elementalists, for example. In comparison to Warriors, Elementalists are ultimately the true melee fighters in PvP right now, simply because they have all of the tools necessary for sustained combat. They have multiple auras that protect them. They have access to constant regeneration, condition removals, and protection boon. Their damage is not dependent on critical % chance since many of their skills automatically crit, so they don’t need to build glassy with a berserker’s amulet to do good damage – they can go with tanky things like soldier’s and valkyrie’s amulet and output significant damage still. They are designed with the potential to go into melee range fearlessly and fight an enemy team. Warriors, on the other hand, don’t even have that potential. It’s not even there. It’s non-existent, at the moment.

The current Rampage elite was intended to make the Warrior into a super soldier. With the stability and multiple crowd control skill set, Rampage was theoretically supposed to make the Warrior be super strong in an enemy team fight temporarily. Unfortunately, that is not the reality.

I would gladly have Rampage be changed like this: Make Rampage be the OPPOSITE of Signet of Rage, and make it a defensive skill. Upon use, Rampage will heal the Warrior back up to a certain % HP and grant X seconds of stability, regeneration, and protection that scales with the amount of opponents nearby (Think: Irelia from League of Legends and her Ionian Fervor passive). The more dangerous the situation is, the more Rampage will heal and keep the Warrior safe so that he can continue his role in the team fight. The Warrior will still keep his current skill set; the elite will just amplify his survivability temporarily so that he may continue to make aggressive plays (since it scales, it would encourage more aggressive gameplay from the Warrior).

^
Erm….. Battle Standard already takes care of Stability and Regeneration. Battle Standard’s 2 cool down is mostly used for stability stomps though. The cool down on 2 is different per person.

Rampage would have to be reworked to something else other than boons..

Schwahrheit.4203:

^
Erm….. Battle Standard already takes care of Stability and Regeneration. Battle Standard’s 2 cool down is mostly used for stability stomps though. The cool down on 2 is different per person.

Rampage would have to be reworked to something else other than boons..

You missed the point… Battle Standard is a team-oriented elite with an atrocious 4 minute cooldown. It revives teammates, gives teeny tiny boons like 3 second stability in an AoE, etc. It’s supposed to turn the tide of a team fight.

The Rampage redesign I am referring to is more personal. The current Rampage as envisioned by ArenaNet was supposed to turn the Warrior into a super soldier, and I am simply redefining what it means to be a “super soldier” in competitive PvP. It’s the personal heal and boons like stability, regeneration, and protection (which will scale based on the amount of enemy players nearby, like Irelia’s passive in League of Legends) that will keep a Warrior going in a team fight.

I just realized this, but essentially the new Rampage will transform the Warrior into an Elementalist in terms of survivability temporarily. Clearly the Elementalist’s design works beautifully in melee team fights; ArenaNet should learn from that and apply a similar philosophy to Warriors.

Well the necromancer abilities you are referring to that are going through your block are meant to do so. At least if they are specced into marks. They become larger and unblockable as it says in the traits tooltip… duh.

Yeah well all I’m saying is Rampage would have to be renamed and reworked for something concerning “Tenacity.”

I don’t want it to be a “Rampage as One” duplicate. It has to be as good as a stance like Endure Pain or Frenzy for example. Or some sort of buff that can’t be corrupted by a Necro.

The concept of Rampage isn’t that great and should just be scraped and replaced with something new. Seriously, even in PvE no one is going to pick this skill over Battle-Standard.

Basically if you want Warrior to be Irelia status in terms of Tenacity, then the Elite must be reworked into a passive buff like Rune of Melandru.

Schwahrheit.4203:

Yeah well all I’m saying is Rampage would have to be renamed and reworked for something concerning “Tenacity.”

The current name Rampage is appropriate for what it is intended to do. Much like Irelia’s passive from League of Legends , the goal is to encourage the Warrior to make aggressive plays. Because the personal defense would scale with the amount of opponents nearby, it motivates the Warrior to continue to stay in a team fight and perform his role. This is what it means to be a “super soldier” in PvP. We don’t need a flashy new set of abilities like the current Rampage. Warriors simply need the tools necessary to perform as a melee fighter in a team fight.

I guess. Just the fact that the name “Rampage” won’t fit the moment they change it to Tenacity like Irelia’s passive. That was my point :P

Schwahrheit.4203:

Or some sort of buff that can’t be corrupted by a Necro.

I believe it’s important to restrict the heightened personal defense to boons, because it allows for counter gameplay. We want Rampage to have that “super soldier” feel without being over the top. Even if a Necro were to corrupt the boons of the Warrior’s elite, he would still benefit from the instant % HP heal which also scales based on the amount of danger the Warrior is in.

Enough about elites though.. lets talk about misleading traits.

It just really seems warriors gave up a lot of things to make up for their higher base stats. They gave up their range options, their active defense, their condi removal and their healing. This leaves warriors with extremely bland skills like whirling axe, brutal shot, crushing blow, etc. Basically a bunch of stuff that only does one mediocre thing.

It also leaves them with no build diversity as they gave up basically everything but damage and cc. That’s really only conducive to glass cannon builds.

The other thing that really erks me is saying warriors were designed to not have condition removal. If warriors are meant to be weak to conditions they don’t have to be weak in two ways. That being little removal while also being the most effected by conditions. Besides most slows pulse so that it would take a lot of removal to be completely clean.

Warriors need some love!

Given the lack of stealth and evades/illusions/auras, the simplest way to give build diversity to warriors would be to have one weapon set built around protection and regeneration.

Perhaps mace #2 and #3 + shield #4 and #5 could, in addition to their current effects, give a few seconds of regeneration and protection.

It would have to be short enough that to play bunker a warrior would have to stay in mace/shield to renew the boons, rather than being able to apply them and switch to GS for offense.

I honestly don’t see whats wrong with adding a trait that goes along the lines of “Burst skills now remove 1 condition on use” At most you can spam 2 burst skills in a short time, at it would give warriors a viable passive form of condition removal via traits. (shrug it off is not viable, its complete kitten compared to every other classes form of condition removal via traits; in most cases it triggers 3x-5x less often)

@xiv
This isn’t really a suggestion that they’re going to take. Boons applying every time you attack? Guardian duplicate. I doubt ANET will even look at this idea.

One unique thing that they can do is maybe… buff mobile strikes so that it cleanses slows and immobilize alike. Or you know… make the traits actually better such as the 5/15/25 traits on vitality tree. And shouts needs to stop taking utility slots. Right now there is little use for shouts in tPvP.

Recently.1043:

I honestly don’t see whats wrong with adding a trait that goes along the lines of “Burst skills now remove 1 condition on use” At most you can spam 2 burst skills in a short time, at it would give warriors a viable passive form of condition removal via traits. (shrug it off is not viable, its complete kitten compared to every other classes form of condition removal via traits; in most cases it triggers 3x-5x less often)

^ I like this because it rewards the Warrior for making aggressive plays. Safety through aggression. It fits the theme of Warriors thriving in large team fights rather than cowering.

I make this comparison a lot, but it’s similar to the concept of Elementalists being most comfortable and at home when they’re in the middle of an enemy team. This is what makes “mages” unique in GW2 compared to other games; they’re not standing on the sidelines casting spells. They’re wrestling in the middle of a team brawl, and they can do that because they have the tools essential to thriving in an enemy team fight.

Warriors need something similar.

Schwahrheit.4203:

@xiv
This isn’t really a suggestion that they’re going to take. Boons applying every time you attack? Guardian duplicate. I doubt ANET will even look at this idea.

One unique thing that they can do is maybe… buff mobile strikes so that it cleanses slows and immobilize alike. Or you know… make the traits actually better such as the 5/15/25 traits on vitality tree. And shouts needs to stop taking utility slots. Right now there is little use for shouts in tPvP.

I agree that it’s all a bit guardian-like.

Maybe some changes to some of the very weak passives in the tactics tree, 10% revive speed could be changed to gives protection and regeneration… oh wait that’s a guardian thing again.

I guess you see where I’m going with this.

Agree with op, buff warrior defences anet!

Warriors are fine, you just cannot stray away from the Greatsword – Axe/Axe and that’s what’s killing you.

Try something creative and go Mace for a while, miracles will happen before your eyes.

bettadenu.5483:

Warriors are fine, you just cannot stray away from the Greatsword – Axe/Axe and that’s what’s killing you.

Try something creative and go Mace for a while, miracles will happen before your eyes.

We’re not even discussing about weapons here. We’re discussing about traits and utilities if you haven’t read the thread yet posting unaware.

zone.1073:

Just look at Elementalists, for example. In comparison to Warriors, Elementalists are ultimately the true melee fighters in PvP right now, simply because they have all of the tools necessary for sustained combat. They have multiple auras that protect them. They have access to constant regeneration, condition removals, and protection boon. Their damage is not dependent on critical % chance since many of their skills automatically crit, so they don’t need to build glassy with a berserker’s amulet to do good damage – they can go with tanky things like soldier’s and valkyrie’s amulet and output significant damage still. They are designed with the potential to go into melee range fearlessly and fight an enemy team.

Not intending to open a can of worms or be argumentative but you really should play one before placing them on such a pedastal.

While I agree in essence that they (we) are a good solid representation of a melee class there isn’t one single build that can do everything you’ve mentioned above at the same time. It is all one big trade off combined with copious amounts of skill and a fairly deep knowledge of the class.

Back to you.

Brutalistik.6473:

bettadenu.5483:

Warriors are fine, you just cannot stray away from the Greatsword – Axe/Axe and that’s what’s killing you.

Try something creative and go Mace for a while, miracles will happen before your eyes.

We’re not even discussing about weapons here. We’re discussing about traits and utilities if you haven’t read the thread yet posting unaware.

I thought we where, because OP says Thieves burst eclipses the Warriors and complains about it.

I’m for buffing defense of Warrior, but only if damage and mobility is nerfed.
Asking for more buffs is ridiculous.

bettadenu.5483:

Brutalistik.6473:

bettadenu.5483:

Warriors are fine, you just cannot stray away from the Greatsword – Axe/Axe and that’s what’s killing you.

Try something creative and go Mace for a while, miracles will happen before your eyes.

We’re not even discussing about weapons here. We’re discussing about traits and utilities if you haven’t read the thread yet posting unaware.

I thought we where, because OP says Thieves burst eclipses the Warriors and complains about it.

I’m for buffing defense of Warrior, but only if damage and mobility is nerfed.
Asking for more buffs is ridiculous.

What does traits and utilities have to do with weapon damage? I think you still got it confused.

So… since Warrior is an aggressive type of Guardian, Reviver’s might should just be replaced with damage per survivability such as “10% of power becomes healing” or “5% of vitality becomes power.” Armored Attack needs to get buffed to 15% or replaced by something else. Thick Skin and Determined Revival should just be +100 vitality and toughness flat. Fast Healer should be replaced to just give +70 attack power to allies.

I’ve come to think of the warrior as a newbie class. It’s to help you learn to play. Once you’ve gotten a feel of it, you should try to transition to another class. I mean the class is clearly newbie friendly, it even has a “Oh, you’re downed. Here have a second try” skill.

So really, I think it’s fine how it is.

I appreciated how it made me giggle^^

Well, I’m glad it made you chuckle. Your glee does nothing to devalue the validity of the statement. Have fun with your foo class.

We’re going to start going off topic, so we should leave it here for now.

I’ve updated the original post with more suggestions.

SteepledHat.1345:

I’ve come to think of the warrior as a newbie class. It’s to help you learn to play. Once you’ve gotten a feel of it, you should try to transition to another class. I mean the class is clearly newbie friendly, it even has a “Oh, you’re downed. Here have a second try” skill.

So really, I think it’s fine how it is.

This is an unhealthy way of approaching balance. That is not how ArenaNet chose to balance their PvP in GW1 (by excluding certain classes from balance), so it’s most likely not intentional here in GW2.

Even if the Warrior class was meant to be easy to pick up for beginners, that is no excuse for being lazy about balancing the class. And if you think playing a Warrior is easy in tournament PvP, think again. You may have no issues stomping PUGs, but try entering a fight with 4 enemy players focusing on no one but you, as a Warrior. Try to survive that while killing them at the same time. You’ll be in for a surprise.

The way Warriors are currently designed, I should not be able to survive these kinds of situations in the videos. Mathematically I should not succeed. The only reason I am is because I have 1000+ tournament matches played as a Warrior, and I have an amazing team that baby-sits me. My guardian blows his long cooldowns just to fully cleanse my conditions, I’m getting healed by the Ele and Guardian, I have two Rangers on my team that Quickness-Revive me when I’m downed. No class should have to be so desperately dependent on others as this one.