Guild Wars 2

I know that there could be 100 different solutions to any given problem.. but it would be a fair statement to say that a factor in all of the condi bunker QQ can be attributed to weakness. Or maybe condi bunkers aren’t being qq’d right now. Maybe they’re not a problem. Maybe I’m a dog. (and you would never know, because this is the internet. no one can truly know whether you’re a dog or not.) What do you guys think?

i think the weakness condition is fine as it is.

Please keep in mind what it does at the moment. If someone is going to argue (not saying that you’re arguing this) that weakness is not very strong, then they are kidding themselves.

-50% endurance regeneration + 50% of all hits are glancing (half damage.) The endurance regen is enough in itself, but the damage reduction is a little overkill.

I think that glancing blows should be 2/3 the damage instead of half damage. The endurance regeneration should go down to -33% instead of 50. That would still make weakness a good condition overall without nerfing it too much, but would help reduce the sustain that condi bunkers have against everyone.

Never heard this one before

weakness is fine, the counter play is to simply remove the weakness condition.

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

weakness is fine, the counter play is to simply remove the weakness condition.

Lol that’s like saying the counterplay to blocks is unblockables. Not everyone has enough clears to handle damaging Conditions, let alone debuff ones.

BeepBoopBop.5403:

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

weakness is fine, the counter play is to simply remove the weakness condition.

Lol that’s like saying the counterplay to blocks is unblockables. Not everyone has enough clears to handle damaging Conditions, let alone debuff ones.

Also everything in this game apply weakness

I feel weakness would be fine IF it was less common. I will say as someone that typically plays power builds that weakness can be pretty kitten ing. Especially when fighting something that puts more dangerous conditions on you. You can’t afford to get rid of weakness if there pumping out confusion torment or burning while your immobilizing you.

But at the same time you can’t allow weakness to stay on you because the damage reduction COMBINED with the endurance regen reduction means that this one single condition not only makes hte fight last longer. But makes you less able to avoid the previously mentioned loads.

This also applies when fighting other POWER builds that produce alot of weakness. If you can’t get them off you. Your damage and sustain are nuked at the same time with one skill.

If weakness was less common. OR was considered a short duration ability. (Something you use to mitigate a burst. Or to set up a burst). Or had slightly reduced effects in both respects. I would be 100% behind it.

(Note there are exceptions here in my case. I don’t believe that theives should have access to alot of weakness, Or warriors, But Power necros for example are designed to SOAK damage for long periods of time. It makes sense in this way for them to have weakness at there disposal. Its an iffy balance issue I can’t even begin to really dip into. Weakness feels OP on some builds. But “normal” on others.

As it is. It acts as an enabler. Making a bad situation worse. Because in a bad situation you just can’t afford to deal with it. But weakness prevents you from escaping that situation at all.

(Note this is just from my experience in game. Not gonna claim to speak for anyone else.)

BeepBoopBop.5403:

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

weakness is fine, the counter play is to simply remove the weakness condition.

Lol that’s like saying the counterplay to blocks is unblockables.

yes that is correct.

Not everyone has enough clears to handle damaging Conditions, let alone debuff ones.

that is why we have 9 different professions and the only official game play we have is 5 vs 5 conquest (or stronghold) so you can rely on your team mates for those extra condition clears.

i would appreciate if weakness weakened enemy conditions

I have always been bothered by the fact that weakness hurts burst builds extra:

It turns 50% of hits into glancing blows, that do 50% damage, and every glancing blow automatically bypasses any crit. calculations.

A simple example:

Damage multiplier for 50% crit chance and 100% crit damage:

No weakness: 0.5+(1-0.5)2 = 1.5 (This is 50% non-crits and 50% crits at 2x damage)
With Weakness: 0.50.5 + 0.25*2 + 0.25*1 = 1.0

Thus, weakness gives you a (1.5-1.0)/1.5 = 33% reduction in damage, a number that only increases with more crit damage and crit chance.

At the very least, they should allow glancing blows to also crit (ontop of the 50% value).

Weakness would be fine if 90% of it wasn’t applied passively.
I mean.. Wanderer’s reaper have 70% uptime on weakness just because they happen to land a critical hit. Druid have more than 50% weakness uptime just because they so happen to get hit. That’s just ridiculous (just like every impactful passive proc)

This 2 spec really are the only reasons weakness feels broken. The only other builds that have reliable acces to it is daredevil (once again, passive application, but i’d rather not touch on daredevil’s balance too much) and mace warriors but at least, they need to get a full auto attack chain to get that one.

Weakness condition is completly fine. It just has to be accessible for professions designed around having access to it, like Necromancer and less accessible to ones that are not.

Blasting a poison field do a big AOE weakness.

It’s something I do with my scrapper when I see some bursty squishy one-two shooters (namely thief and revenant) trying to kill my team member.

Weakness is an important condition that power builds or bunkers can actually utilize. Keep it the way it is.

I agree that weakness is a really strong condition in comparison to others, and it is too passive/frequent in the current state of the game.

Ex. Protective ward (passive weakness AND protection boon) pretty much gives druids a single trait that they can use to brush off power builds, the cool down is also rather short combined with the long duration of protection and weakness.

Weakness should not be accessible passively with such a high uptime (or
be more rare/“costly” to have).

weakness is an extremely powerful condition

you just dont hear a lot of whining about it because mediocre players have hard time noticing it

Perhaps it should also affect condition damage as well since it is so out of hand? -50? condition damage would also sort of force condi classes to trait for more condi cleanses just like power specs. Would that be fair?

weakness is fine.

Xanctus The Dragonslayer.2318:

weakness is fine.

Its not by any means. That condition alone ruins power builds.

Burtnik.5218:

Xanctus The Dragonslayer.2318:

weakness is fine.

Its not by any means. That condition alone ruins power builds.

Yes it is fine. it’a a single condition that isn’t getting applied as much as the other builds. Neither does it have the tools to stack as incredibly long as other conditions.

Weakness is fine. It’s not different then protection or aegis.. Having counters to builds is not wrong per se. That is what makes an rpg an rpg. Only if weaknessis applied excesively and has no counter play whatsoever. one could talk.

But there is u can use resistance, cleanse it. Or wait it out. or even disenage.

Xanctus The Dragonslayer.2318:

Burtnik.5218:

Xanctus The Dragonslayer.2318:

weakness is fine.

Its not by any means. That condition alone ruins power builds.

Yes it is fine. it’a a single condition that isn’t getting applied as much as the other builds. Neither does it have the tools to stack as incredibly long as other conditions.

Weakness is fine. It’s not different then protection or aegis.. Having counters to builds is not wrong per se. That is what makes an rpg an rpg. Only if weaknessis applied excesively and has no counter play whatsoever. one could talk.

But there is u can use resistance, cleanse it. Or wait it out. or even disenage.

Or just play condi build like every other pleb and faceroll my keyboard without giving a f about weakness. There is ton of weakness application and i can literally keep it up whole time on some classes if you lack condi clear. 30+sec weakness is not rare thing to see really. Also as you mentioned there is already protection or aegis. So why do we need another op condition on top of that? How about weakness reduce condition damage by 50%? I mean these evi/killshots that hits for 700 glacial are sexy af.. not.

Not every class has resistance nor space to keep cleaning it over 12+ confusion stack and other cancer this game has to offer.

Burtnik.5218:

Xanctus The Dragonslayer.2318:

Burtnik.5218:

Xanctus The Dragonslayer.2318:

weakness is fine.

Its not by any means. That condition alone ruins power builds.

Yes it is fine. it’a a single condition that isn’t getting applied as much as the other builds. Neither does it have the tools to stack as incredibly long as other conditions.

Weakness is fine. It’s not different then protection or aegis.. Having counters to builds is not wrong per se. That is what makes an rpg an rpg. Only if weaknessis applied excesively and has no counter play whatsoever. one could talk.

But there is u can use resistance, cleanse it. Or wait it out. or even disenage.

Or just play condi build like every other pleb and faceroll my keyboard without giving a f about weakness. There is ton of weakness application and i can literally keep it up whole time on some classes if you lack condi clear. 30+sec weakness is not rare thing to see really. Also as you mentioned there is already protection or aegis. So why do we need another op condition on top of that? How about weakness reduce condition damage by 50%? I mean these evi/killshots that hits for 700 glacial are sexy af.. not.

Not every class has resistance nor space to keep cleaning it over 12+ confusion stack and other cancer this game has to offer.

Condi and pleb? Ah I see.

No there is not a ton of weakness applications. Looking at the condi meta build. Macebow only applies 5 seconds of weakness on a single auto attack. Chronophantasma shatter only 2 and 3 second weakness on staf skills 4 and 5 mind you. Corruption mancer has zero weakness unless you go master of corruption traits.

And no warrior is gonna just auto attack for the entire day. Neither is chronphantasm mesmer gonna spam staff 4 and 5 skill. Heck ragezerker only get’s a bit more weakness for 3 seconds On interupts. Yeah try pulling that off on people with stability, blocks or blinds. and this is aside from timing and latency.

Seems u are one of those posters that hate conditions and thus exagarates.

BTW focusing an entire build around weakness killing it’s effectivness in other areas doesn’t make it op. If u intentionally go to lengths to make a build focused on weakness then weakness deserves to have long lasting effects. Not sure I believe the 30 sec weakness.

Also why is there weakness? Because not all classes have access to blocks, aegis and protection. Also some power builds can stack might easily above the 10 stacks or have a good fury uptime.

I will say it again. Weakness is completely fine.

For those saying weakness is fine, is weakness + protection + -50% damage skills like Bulwark Gyro fine? Because that’s what power builds have to deal with. One of these needs to change to either have less of an effect on power or also affect conditions.

Idea: weakness makes conditions a 25% chance to not apply.

Would be interesting to see it get effect condis I would personally put that specifically on something for thieves. Otherwise I really feel the main issue for most ppl is they constantly love to run with little to no condi cleanse and are stuck in the era of all damage utility based skills.

I will agree with someone about reapers and weakness though they have some serious high uptime on that while its obviously meant to be a defensive measure for them the abundant access to it for them simialr to chill is kinda out there but hey the same can be sad for other classes with certain boons or conditions so honestly fine with it.

Weakness in itself is fine, it just has become too easy to apply, the two main offenders being necromancers and rangers. In the old days, it was important for a thief to blast his poison field to apply weakness in a team fight, now you just assume that everyone will be weaken anyway because of the necromancer.

We have the same problem with protection, and with damage reduction. Double endure pain warriors, bulwark gyro, minions, Guard and such have completely detroyed old power builds. The only power builds you can play now deal ridiculous damage to deal with this increase in survivability: scrappers, revenants, even daredevil and guardians. This is not very good for build diversity.

I don’t like weakness since HoT….

Weakness affects power builds, halves the damage, reduces endurance regain. Having weakness trying to hit someone with protection (and there is a lot of protection and weakness spam) it’s a further 33% decrease in damage.

The power build put in power, precision and ferocity and is only doing 500 damage on hit….
The condition build put in toughness, condi and vitality… stacked a few burns and watched it melt through protection while weakness not having any effect.

If weakness and protection worked against conditions, then condition builds might actually require timing on skill usage instead of using what ever is off CD.

Allow me to reiterate what I’m proposing for weakness: I think that glancing blows should be 2/3 the damage instead of half damage. The endurance regeneration should go down to -33% instead of 50.

That’s one idea among many, many others have suggested in the thread. The overwhelming majority of people in this thread agree that weakness needs to be changed, somehow, if not that then nerfed at the very least.

Keep the talk going. I’m glad there are others who agree with me and see what I’m seeing.

The Game Slayer.7632:

The overwhelming majority of people in this thread agree that weakness needs to be changed, somehow, if not that then nerfed at the very least.

I’m not sure about that conclusion. I’ve seen many saying that its application is too frequent, which is not quite the same as proposing a nerf to weakness itself.

The Game Slayer.7632:

Allow me to reiterate what I’m proposing for weakness: I think that glancing blows should be 2/3 the damage instead of half damage. The endurance regeneration should go down to -33% instead of 50.

That’s one idea among many, many others have suggested in the thread. The overwhelming majority of people in this thread agree that weakness needs to be changed, somehow, if not that then nerfed at the very least.

Keep the talk going. I’m glad there are others who agree with me and see what I’m seeing.

LOL

Sorel.4870:

The Game Slayer.7632:

The overwhelming majority of people in this thread agree that weakness needs to be changed, somehow, if not that then nerfed at the very least.

I’m not sure about that conclusion. I’ve seen many saying that its application is too frequent, which is not quite the same as proposing a nerf to weakness itself.

“weakness needs to be changed” includes the frequency of application. One thing is clear: they too agree that weakness is a problem.

So be it, I just find that it would be far easier in terms of balance to adjust the condition itself than to adjust countless traits, sigils, runes, and weapon skills to make weakness less prevalent.

niea.7504:

The Game Slayer.7632:

Allow me to reiterate what I’m proposing for weakness: I think that glancing blows should be 2/3 the damage instead of half damage. The endurance regeneration should go down to -33% instead of 50.

That’s one idea among many, many others have suggested in the thread. The overwhelming majority of people in this thread agree that weakness needs to be changed, somehow, if not that then nerfed at the very least.

Keep the talk going. I’m glad there are others who agree with me and see what I’m seeing.

LOL

Nice addition to the conversation. Very detailed. Call me delusional, but you can tally up all of the people who agree that weakness is a little problematic. It’s not like this isn’t some sort of public thread where you can see all of the comments and replies or anything.

The Game Slayer.7632:

So be it, I just find that it would be far easier in terms of balance to adjust the condition itself than to adjust countless traits, sigils, runes, and weapon skills to make weakness less prevalent.

Easier, sure. Appropriate, I disagree. Again, weakness, like protection and stability, used to have a big impact on a fight, something you would try to use at the right moment, or save a cleanse for. Going back to something like that would be more fun than just having yet another condition you don’t need to care about.

Anet did this with confusion. Once upon a time, when you had 5 stacks of confusion and you spammed your skill like a pianist, you would die almost instantly. Now there is very little need for careful confusion management (with the exception of a good Crow Bar when the rev is casting UA, that’s always fun), and confusion is another glorified bleed/burn.

Sorel.4870:

The Game Slayer.7632:

So be it, I just find that it would be far easier in terms of balance to adjust the condition itself than to adjust countless traits, sigils, runes, and weapon skills to make weakness less prevalent.

Easier, sure. Appropriate, I disagree. Again, weakness, like protection and stability, used to have a big impact on a fight, something you would try to use at the right moment, or save a cleanse for. Going back to something like that would be more fun than just having yet another condition you don’t need to care about.

Anet did this with confusion. Once upon a time, when you had 5 stacks of confusion and you spammed your skill like a pianist, you would die almost instantly. Now there is very little need for careful confusion management (with the exception of a good Crow Bar when the rev is casting UA, that’s always fun), and confusion is another glorified bleed/burn.

Hey, I’m happy with either, tbh. So I’m not really going to argue against you on that point.

Yes, it is a very strong condition.

But I agree that the biggest problem is that it is too easy to access through passive application.

At the very least I’d like to see the duration of weakness from corrupting might cut down. 10s of weakness is overkill for corrupting a stack or 2 of might, which pretty much everything gives you these days, even before adding in condition duration changes or additional weakness sources. There’s just no reason for it to be that long with the current amount of corrupt skills available.

Sorel.4870:

Weakness in itself is fine, it just has become too easy to apply, the two main offenders being necromancers and rangers. In the old days, it was important for a thief to blast his poison field to apply weakness in a team fight, now you just assume that everyone will be weaken anyway because of the necromancer.

We have the same problem with protection, and with damage reduction. Double endure pain warriors, bulwark gyro, minions, Guard and such have completely detroyed old power builds. The only power builds you can play now deal ridiculous damage to deal with this increase in survivability: scrappers, revenants, even daredevil and guardians. This is not very good for build diversity.

In the old days, Necromancer had almost the same amount of Weakness application as it does now. The only difference is, in the old days not everyone was farting Might, which gets corrupted into Weakness.

Rym.1469:

Sorel.4870:

Weakness in itself is fine, it just has become too easy to apply, the two main offenders being necromancers and rangers. In the old days, it was important for a thief to blast his poison field to apply weakness in a team fight, now you just assume that everyone will be weaken anyway because of the necromancer.

We have the same problem with protection, and with damage reduction. Double endure pain warriors, bulwark gyro, minions, Guard and such have completely detroyed old power builds. The only power builds you can play now deal ridiculous damage to deal with this increase in survivability: scrappers, revenants, even daredevil and guardians. This is not very good for build diversity.

In the old days, Necromancer had almost the same amount of Weakness application as it does now. The only difference is, in the old days not everyone was farting Might, which gets corrupted into Weakness.

And Necro corruption ability was on very long cooldowns, the shortest being 12 seconds, and the rest being 40+ seconds.

Now both Might and corruption happen far, far more frequently.