Guild Wars 2

Weapon changing on the tournament matches should be disabled. In its current form, this is mostly used for boon and there is no need to use that weapon after you got boon. so you can change back to your original weapon. If you want some boon on some weapon, you should stuck with that weapon so that your weapon choice means something.

Edit:I am not talking about in combat weapon swapping. I am talking about out of combat weapon changing.

Edit2: Since most of you dont bother reading answers. I am not complaining about this because i cant do it. I am doing it alright but i dont like doing it.

So what your saying is that any class that wields a staff or 2h weapon, that uses the abilities then has all but one or 2 skills they can use on a relatively long CD, be stuck with that weapon, and uselessly have to twiddle their thumbs around while they have to wait for CDs to come back up in a game that is based around being mobile. Of course I guess it doesn’t matter for the Engineer or Elementalist that can’t swap weapons because they use kits and atunements. Are you saying they should not be able to do that either, it would be the only way to make it fair if nobody else could switch weapons. While we are at preventing swaps, shall we take away the necros elites that give them different toolsets as well, and take away DS to?

Weapon swapping with different sigils applied to weapons are made to flow with the build of the character, if you picked a class that does not have a weapons swap, ergo no second sigil set to use, roll to a class that can.

There are weapon types and classes that are balanced around cross-weapon combos, or some weapons being mainly boon weapons. How would it work with said weapon in combat if it’s your only one? HEY GUYS I GOT A BOON ON ME NOW I’LL STAND HERE AND /DANCE.

Seriously, though, some weapons are only useful for about a second, and you need to swap to something else to have actual uptime.
I’ll take the necro staff as an example, you have awesome 2-5 spells, on a relatively high cooldown. They are great as they are, but the #1 move is genuine kitten. So you pop the 2-5 spells and you basicly have 10-15 seconds of downtime in that weapon set. So you swap to the other one because it has better low/non cd spells. And if you were unable to do this, the staff would be brokenly bad.

Necro staff skills actually scale on worse CDs than that. 2 skill is a 5 sec cd, 3 skill is like 15 secs, 4 is 25 and the fear i think is 40. The cd on staff skills for necro is pretty horrendous, however, 1 is not useless as it is one of the few combo finishers necros actually have, and also seem to overlook. With my well traiting, 1 on the staff provides 15 secs of lifesteal with the proper rotation of wells, and 10 secs of condition removal, with the well of blood.

weapons, armors, signets, utility, traits. all should be blocked when u start tourney.
if you want to make an e-sport.

Sjach Darasv.3729:

Necro staff skills actually scale on worse CDs than that. 2 skill is a 5 sec cd, 3 skill is like 15 secs, 4 is 25 and the fear i think is 40. The cd on staff skills for necro is pretty horrendous, however, 1 is not useless as it is one of the few combo finishers necros actually have, and also seem to overlook. With my well traiting, 1 on the staff provides 15 secs of lifesteal with the proper rotation of wells, and 10 secs of condition removal, with the well of blood.

I know that it being a finisher is good, but the skill on it’s own is extremely lackluster.
There are plenty of other spammable moves that are finishers but have alot more flat damage, cond damage or genuine utility overall.

Shukran.4851:

weapons, armors, signets, utility, traits. all should be blocked when u start tourney.
if you want to make an e-sport.

I LOL so hard at this. If that were the case, it would be completely horrible. Certain classes are complete crap without traits. Honestly why have different classes at all if that were the case. What you basically saying with that statement is, everybody play one class with the exact same abilities and let skill decide the answer. That is not even right considering the cooldowns on some classes compared to others, and this is a CD vs CD based game.

So far no one understands what the OP is talking about. He is talking about out of combat weapon swapping here (Ex. Warrior equipping a warhorn Out of Combat solely to get the swiftness boon, and then switching back to whatever his main 2 weapons are before entering battle). I agree that this should be looked at. Possibly once entering a match, your weapons of choice (equipped weapons) are locked in and cannot be switched out until the match is over.

SmackMyBird.2386:

Sjach Darasv.3729:

Necro staff skills actually scale on worse CDs than that. 2 skill is a 5 sec cd, 3 skill is like 15 secs, 4 is 25 and the fear i think is 40. The cd on staff skills for necro is pretty horrendous, however, 1 is not useless as it is one of the few combo finishers necros actually have, and also seem to overlook. With my well traiting, 1 on the staff provides 15 secs of lifesteal with the proper rotation of wells, and 10 secs of condition removal, with the well of blood.

I know that it being a finisher is good, but the skill on it’s own is extremely lackluster.
There are plenty of other spammable moves that are finishers but have alot more flat damage, cond damage or genuine utility overall.

On a necro? Not really. Necros can place down millions of fields but have very few options when it comes to the matter of finishers, Mh dagger has no finisher, focus OH has no finisher, staff has finisher on auto attack and with the #4 blast. axe mh has no finisher, pretty sure the 2 abilities on an OH warhorn are not finishers, nor do i think the abbilties on OH dagger are finishers. Necros are just lackluster with finishers in general.

Sjach Darasv.3729:

Shukran.4851:

weapons, armors, signets, utility, traits. all should be blocked when u start tourney.
if you want to make an e-sport.

I LOL so hard at this. If that were the case, it would be completely horrible. Certain classes are complete crap without traits. Honestly why have different classes at all if that were the case. What you basically saying with that statement is, everybody play one class with the exact same abilities and let skill decide the answer. That is not even right considering the cooldowns on some classes compared to others, and this is a CD vs CD based game.

I think what he’s saying is that you can’t change anything after the tournament starts, which is a fair point. You should build your char to be able to do well on all 3 maps, not swap specs/weapons between maps or even characters.

Sjach Darasv.3729:

SmackMyBird.2386:

Sjach Darasv.3729:

Necro staff skills actually scale on worse CDs than that. 2 skill is a 5 sec cd, 3 skill is like 15 secs, 4 is 25 and the fear i think is 40. The cd on staff skills for necro is pretty horrendous, however, 1 is not useless as it is one of the few combo finishers necros actually have, and also seem to overlook. With my well traiting, 1 on the staff provides 15 secs of lifesteal with the proper rotation of wells, and 10 secs of condition removal, with the well of blood.

I know that it being a finisher is good, but the skill on it’s own is extremely lackluster.
There are plenty of other spammable moves that are finishers but have alot more flat damage, cond damage or genuine utility overall.

On a necro? Not really. Necros can place down millions of fields but have very few options when it comes to the matter of finishers, Mh dagger has no finisher, focus OH has no finisher, staff has finisher on auto attack and with the #4 blast. axe mh has no finisher, pretty sure the 2 abilities on an OH warhorn are not finishers, nor do i think the abbilties on OH dagger are finishers. Necros are just lackluster with finishers in general.

Ah sorry realised my point there was poorly described, i meant cross-proffesion skills.
Other proffesions have spammable moves that are finishers aswell as having decent damage/skill utility.

Besides the finisher part the staff #1 is VERY bad in comparison to most.

Hamburgled.3562:

So far no one understands what the OP is talking about. He is talking about out of combat weapon swapping here (Ex. Warrior equipping a warhorn Out of Combat solely to get the swiftness boon, and then switching back to whatever his main 2 weapons are before entering battle). I agree that this should be looked at. Possibly once entering a match, your weapons of choice (equipped weapons) are locked in and cannot be switched out until the match is over.

If a player has the skill to equipt a weapon out of combat get a boon and swap back before getting into combat, then i do believe you can skill up to do the same thing, it is a matter of choice of whether or not you choose to do so. Can an elementalist go scepter dagger but before getting into combat go air attune bust out a staff grant swiftness to their party then swap back, sure, if they can get it done before getting into combat, which mind you is easily initiated in the game, more power to them.

SmackMyBird.2386:

Ah sorry realised my point there was poorly described, i meant cross-proffesion skills.
Other proffesions have spammable moves that are finishers aswell as having decent damage/skill utility.

Besides the finisher part the staff #1 is VERY bad in comparison to most.

Oh yeah for cross profession the fact a necro can pretty much keep an uptime of 25 sec and more of a combo field is amazing. The staffs 1 damage is pretty lackluster though aside from the finisher, and that it hits multiple enemies, a point nobody even seems to pay attention to lol.

Can’t believe this thread got derailed so hard so fast.

Yes, as shukran said, everything should be locked down as soon as you enter. They had this same problem in the beginning of gw1 and only fixed it when people began abusing it. Which is probably going to happen all over again.

It’s really only abuse if bad players that have the option to do the same thing choose not to and then whine about other people doing it.

Sjach Darasv.3729:

It’s really only abuse if bad players that have the option to do the same thing choose not to and then whine about other people doing it.

Indeed, something every proff can do, extremely easily, to recieve a minor advantage isnt exactly abuse.

The only thing i feel should be locked upon entering a tournament is traits and characters.

Having every weapon at your disposal is not a “minor advantage”. Your character’s capabilities are largely decided by your weapon choices. If you don’t actually have to make a choice at all before entering it severely devalues pre-game strategy. You can just build your character from the ground up after entering and seeing the enemy profession composition. You can just start fighting, see what builds they are specced to, disengage, and set up whatever weapons and armor (and traits!) that would help most, and go back in. All players become shifting targets, and it’s never clear to the enemy what you are capable of. Pretty terrible, really. If both teams do this it’s just chaos.

With the exception that I’m pretty sure you cannot entirely clear trait tree’s, I’m pretty sure those are locked while in the arenas, so you are still limited to which ones you can use in that reguard. Also, the enemy is not the only one that can change chars at the start of the tourney, and you get 5 mins to decide whether or not the current class/spec your on is going to be the most beneficial for the situation.

You can enter with no trait points allocated, and add them when you see the enemy team (and in fact I do believe you can just wait until you engage the enemy and then allocate them, even in the middle of combat). Once you’ve allocated your trait points, you can freely swap everything else as long as you are out of combat. This, gentlemen, is not a can of worms we want to keep open for long.

Shukran.4851:

weapons, armors, signets, utility, traits. all should be blocked when u start tourney.
if you want to make an e-sport.

Yeah and all LoL ranked games you shouldn’t be able to use Runes and Masteries if they want to make that an e-sport.

Jesus.

I see no issue with weapon swapping. <3 my warhorn buff. Weapon swapping gives a nice range and diversity to combat. Taking it away would be incredibly detrimental to the fun factor.

Keltic, replace the word “blocked” with “locked” and you will suddenly understand this thread.

milo.6942:

Can’t believe this thread got derailed so hard so fast.

Yes, as shukran said, everything should be locked down as soon as you enter. They had this same problem in the beginning of gw1 and only fixed it when people began abusing it. Which is probably going to happen all over again.

So if I enter with MH Axe and OH Warhorn on accident, im stuck with that for the match? I’m probably strawmanning a bit here.

Complete shut down of a build in all it’s aspects at the start of a tourney match will not improve the match. Certain builds will rise that everyone will play because no one wants to risk the chance of losing due to trying something else out. All a complete lock or block or whatever at entry will cause the PvP to go stale.

Of course this is a much better complaint thread compared to HS OP or HB OP.

Hamburgled.3562:

So far no one understands what the OP is talking about. He is talking about out of combat weapon swapping here (Ex. Warrior equipping a warhorn Out of Combat solely to get the swiftness boon, and then switching back to whatever his main 2 weapons are before entering battle). I agree that this should be looked at. Possibly once entering a match, your weapons of choice (equipped weapons) are locked in and cannot be switched out until the match is over.

^
Why should it be looked at? It’s a tactical decision and good play. It’s fine as is and actually makes for a more skill-based competition.

Btw engi’s do this too for instance. On my engi I will swap to a rifle for the leap and kickback abilities as a fast movement burst before swapping back to my pistol’s and engaging in combat. It adds more dynamics to the game overall.

TLDR: It’s fine and adds more complexity/skill to the game.

milo.6942:

You can enter with no trait points allocated, and add them when you see the enemy team (and in fact I do believe you can just wait until you engage the enemy and then allocate them, even in the middle of combat).

No you can not. Once you are in combat you cannot change your trait point allocations. Furthermore once you are in the tournament your point allocation is set and cannot be changed (20/0/20/30 for instance) only what the actual traits are in those point slots. So if I want to change from say trait I to trait IV because it will benefit me more in the current map then I can do so outside of combat, however I cannot go from 10 points in a trait line to 30.

Again, the system really is fine and adds complexity, skill and dynamics to tournament play. All of which are good things.

Braxxus.2904:

^
Why should it be looked at? It’s a tactical decision and good play. It’s fine as is and actually makes for a more skill-based competition.

Btw engi’s do this too for instance. On my engi I will swap to a rifle for the leap and kickback abilities as a fast movement burst before swapping back to my pistol’s and engaging in combat. It adds more dynamics to the game overall.

TLDR: It’s fine and adds more complexity/skill to the game.

Not necessarily true. It gives an obvious edge to players who have hardware with macro capability or the know-how to run hotkey macro programs, placing people at a disadvantage just because they cannot/will not run the same 3rd party equipment or software.

Nothing about that involves in-game skill.

Besides, allowing OOC weapon swaps doesn’t improve upon character choices. Nor does it add interesting complexity. On the contrary, it removes complexity. It invalidates certain weapon choices and forces certain play style decisions. It reduces strategic choices, both for your character and for your team. The game is cheaper because of it. Warriors, as a profession, are not improved by the ability to warhorn between bases, they are required to do so in order to keep up with all other competitive warriors. And that’s bad by design.

Not necessarily true. It gives an obvious edge to players who have hardware with macro capability or the know-how to run hotkey macro programs, placing people at a disadvantage just because they cannot/will not run the same 3rd party equipment or software.

I don’t know what you think people are doing that requires some sort of macro functionality (admittedly I have a g-19 and corsair programmable 16 button mouse but that’s beside the point) as I do it without any 3rd party crap. It’s not that hard to hit “H” equip horn, “4” use horn, equip weapon and “H” again to close down the hero window. I think that’s why we have that quick inventory window in the hero pane in the first place because otherwise why have that AND an inventory box with those same items?

Nothing about that involves in-game skill.

It does, it’s out of combat. All it would be doing (if people even bothered macroing this) is reducing redundancy. For the record, I do the same thing in PvE, questing, WvW. It’s good game design that rewards players for actively using everything in their skill-set.

Besides, allowing OOC weapon swaps doesn’t improve upon character choices. Nor does it add interesting complexity. On the contrary, it removes complexity. It invalidates certain weapon choices and forces certain play style decisions. It reduces strategic choices, both for your character and for your team. The game is cheaper because of it. Warriors, as a profession, are not improved by the ability to warhorn between bases, they are required to do so in order to keep up with all other competitive warriors. And that’s bad by design.

It’s a competitive game. Also anything that adds more decisions and actions per second adds complexity to the game. Whether that complexity is good or bad is a different matter, but it’s not really up for debate.

If you have 3 choices you can make at any given second, and I have 7 then my skillset is more complex. It’s also more rewarding.

Ok so i didnt mention that i am talking about out of combat weapon changing. Changing weapons out of combat is not about skill, you just click 3 times (equip warhorn, press swiftness skill, equip your original weapon again.). I am doing it too, but this makes weapon choices meaningless. If i want swiftness boon in my build, i should take focus with me as a mesmer and stuck with that. It is not about rewarding player for doing that, it is about what choices did you make when you are selecting your weapons and build.

And “So if I enter with MH Axe and OH Warhorn on accident, im stuck with that for the match? I’m probably strawmanning a bit here.” This? Really? Why do you think there is a ready up period before matches? You can change your weapon there.

I hope Anet doesn’t take that post serious. This game is all about little details – the right skill to dodge, the right time to engage, the inch farther u teleport. Everything counts here, and in the end – a whole lot of little details makes all the big difference. You are 6 clicks away to give urself a movement boon and instead of learning it – u complain about it. Just give up on pvp if thats the case.
And of course I should be able to put a condition removal in my build if they keep sending the same necro for 1v1…

I dont like it at all. It decrease the need of these sets. If you want to have swiftness then stick to this weapon.
Now everyone has this which is eliminating “advantages of proffesions that should be highly mobile”.
I would like to see swifntess as part of team strategy, not something what you do automatically when you are out of combat.

Braxxus.2904:

Not necessarily true. It gives an obvious edge to players who have hardware with macro capability or the know-how to run hotkey macro programs, placing people at a disadvantage just because they cannot/will not run the same 3rd party equipment or software.

I don’t know what you think people are doing that requires some sort of macro functionality (admittedly I have a g-19 and corsair programmable 16 button mouse but that’s beside the point) as I do it without any 3rd party crap. It’s not that hard to hit “H” equip horn, “4” use horn, equip weapon and “H” again to close down the hero window. I think that’s why we have that quick inventory window in the hero pane in the first place because otherwise why have that AND an inventory box with those same items?

The thing is, with a decent macrotool you can – probably – do it much quicker and more often than manually. Jump out of combat, press butten X, instantly get boon A+B+C out of your spare equipment – jump back to the combat. Such kind of abusing of the equipment change mechanism i can realy good imagine. And it would be no good for the game, imho.

MaxChaos.3825:

You are 6 clicks away to give urself a movement boon and instead of learning it – u complain about it.

What makes you think i dont do it? I am doing it alright, but i dont like doing it.

Braxxus.2904:

It’s a competitive game. Also anything that adds more decisions and actions per second adds complexity to the game. Whether that complexity is good or bad is a different matter, but it’s not really up for debate.

If you have 3 choices you can make at any given second, and I have 7 then my skillset is more complex. It’s also more rewarding.

You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.

Excess actions do not always equate to complexity. Most often they just add labor. Complexity is a compounded interaction of parts. Combat in GW2 is complex. Strategic decisions used to direct map control are complex. Swapping weapons while traveling between destinations only adds busywork.

Now, if there existed a whole host of selections for Out of Combat weapon choices, then you’d have some complexity. If each profession included an interesting set of decisions where some OOC weapon swaps might be more beneficial than others given a certain situation, you’d have some complexity. If your OOC buff weapon worked differently depending on your current weapons, you’d get more complexity. But this is not the case.

In the current state, the go-to weapon is the only one with a swiftness buff. Warriors: warhorn. Mesmers: focus. Elementalists/Guardians: staff. These are not sets of multiple parts whose interaction with your primary weapon choice facilitates new outcomes. These are not interesting decisions. These are singular resources much like quaffing a speed potion or hopping on a mount. Not complex. Just simple work.

If I have 3 choices to make, and you have 7, but four of those are just buttons to press when you have nothing else to do, our skill sets are equally complex. Mine may have greater downtime, but provides equal rewards while actively used. Yours just has extra busywork.

Efaithm.1598:

MaxChaos.3825:

You are 6 clicks away to give urself a movement boon and instead of learning it – u complain about it.

What makes you think i dont do it? I am doing it alright, but i dont like doing it.

And therein lies the problem. Out of Combat weapon swapping isn’t something we do to enjoy (although I’m sure some of you do; nothing wrong with that). We do it because other people do it, and now we are forced to join in to compete. This is entirely counter intuitive to a system that promotes unique character choices, as it requires all players to make the same choice.

Great post Pinder.

This is something they will change. I just hope it’s sooner rather than later.

It’s actually incredible it’s not been patched yet.

Everyone can do it? It requires more APM, and thus skill (whether it is mechanical/tactic/brainless skill, it still requires more)?

Allows people to use more skills?

Am I missing something here…? They’ve disabled in combat switching and your allowed to switch it outside of combat for a reason.

imo your weapons and utility skills should all be locked once you start a match. Its a bit silly how you can swap everything willy nilly

I also dislike that this is being done. Switching to my focus on Mesmer just to get swiftness then switching back really adds no depth for me, it just makes playing the game to maximum efficiency more tedious. I don’t really think anything major would be lost by locking your build, or your weapon choice at least, once you have entered PvP.

If it must remain in the game, then create a system that makes OOC weapon swapping easier. Give me a bar on my UI to place weapons, allow macros, or something that makes switching not require me to open another window. As it is now, it just makes playing the game optimally more annoying.

But seriously, anyone arguing that this adds much depth or skill to the game…get real.

Yes, you are right of course. This is no depth or skill, this is just busywork.

I’m going to bring that thread back but, it seems to be one of the first one concerning that after release… I already complained about that in BWE and still think that this isn’t just right.

At least your weapon sets should be locked as long as you are in the match.
There is nothing skillfull about open the inventory, equip a weapon for a second to get a boon out of it and un-equip it again… That’s just a tedious thing you have to do if you want to stay competitive.
If you haven’t choosen a weapon that gives you the movement, than you haven’t choosen it, end! If you want movement, sacrifice something else…

So, I’m all for it when talking about locking weapons and armor, even alone because you are otherwise forced to carry a looooot of weapons with you, just to be sure that you stay versatile in the match, instead of thinking about your build to the end before using it…
And if they reaaally want us to carry all these weapons around to get those boons out of it with a quick weapon change, then hell, give us something like THIS!

There shouldn’t be any reason to mess around with the inventory in a match. Not a single one!