Guild Wars 2

…when 2/3 of the professions have easy access to some sort of invuln/block/stealth/etc type of effect that keeps stomps from being interrupted? I can very much see the point of this mechanic in PvE, but the disparity in stomp-ability with some profs is so strong there’s almost no point. Just let us choose to respawn immediately when downed because we’re going to die. At least that would waste less time.

After playing Arena Aspect with no Downed State and very small cooldowns, I’ve found myself being more INTO the action than in sPvP. I know that when I kill someone, a warrior let’s say, I don’t have to evade his hammer (somehow) and spike him in time so he doesn’t vengeance.

I’d rather have no Downed State and 8s respawn timer. Faster paced action that let’s you get back into the fight sooner.

Everyone should be on equal ground.

Then there would be 50% less things for Shoutcasters to talk about.

If you watched the eu qualifiers last weekend you will have noticed how quick people can go down in a fight. Combat is very fast, without a downstate the fight would have be lost for the team which has a team member drop first. The downstate offer’s the solution to the problem of burst in mmo’s. It allows burst to be there without being overpowered because you must also have people on your team who are able to stomp. Without downstate burst would have to be nerfed and fights would be a much slower pace. Most downstates can be dealt with and if you are having problems with certain classes ask on the forums. If you are stomping a warrior you can get stability or aegis or blind the hammer toss, if not you can dodge it and still stomp them before vengence comes of cooldown(as long as you don’t wait to stomp).

Down state is fine, but there are certain downstates that need balance.

Rangers + Engis in particular. Eles are next.

Better to give everyone 25-50% more hp and just removed downed. With the game not having dedicated healers the act of increasing maximum health pools can do a lot more for the game.

Necro’s have to have it the worst in this regard. Not only do they not have any ability to reliably stomp anyone (No stability/invul) but they also have one of the easiest to avoid interrupts (Can miss, be blocked, invul etc). Rangers are a close second as their only saving grace is the fact that they can have very reliably win down state battles because of their pet.

One of the primary reasons for targeting someone in a teamfight is simply “Who has the easiest downstate to stomp?”. Mesmers, Thieves and Eles are rarely primary targets because they can avoid being stomped for a longer period of time than any other professions.

Would love to see some tweaking in the down state area.

Nikkle.4013:

If you watched the eu qualifiers last weekend you will have noticed how quick people can go down in a fight. Combat is very fast, without a downstate the fight would have be lost for the team which has a team member drop first.

So “as strong as your weakest link” doesn’t apply to team games? Never knew.

If you are stomping a warrior you can get stability or aegis or blind the hammer toss, if not you can dodge it and still stomp them before vengence comes of cooldown(as long as you don’t wait to stomp)

Unless the warrior throws his hammer immediately after he is downed, dodging and stomping before vengeance isn’t going to happen. Necro – no stability, no aegis, no reliable blind (dagger 4 is only weapon unless you want to waste a well on him, Sig of Spite is only other option).. so yeah, I’d like to see some downed state changes.

Pandabro.8743:

Necro’s have to have it the worst in this regard. Not only do they not have any ability to reliably stomp anyone (No stability/invul) but they also have one of the easiest to avoid interrupts (Can miss, be blocked, invul etc). Rangers are a close second as their only saving grace is the fact that they can have very reliably win down state battles because of their pet.

One of the primary reasons for targeting someone in a teamfight is simply “Who has the easiest downstate to stomp?”. Mesmers, Thieves and Eles are rarely primary targets because they can avoid being stomped for a longer period of time than any other professions.

Would love to see some tweaking in the down state area.

Yeah, I’m a Necro too and feel its one of the worst downed states. Don’t worry I’m soldier/wells not FOTM condi spam =P

I approve of the downed state. I do not approve of stomping. It favors classes with easy access to stealth and stability far too much.

Draehl.2681:

Pandabro.8743:

Necro’s have to have it the worst in this regard. Not only do they not have any ability to reliably stomp anyone (No stability/invul) but they also have one of the easiest to avoid interrupts (Can miss, be blocked, invul etc). Rangers are a close second as their only saving grace is the fact that they can have very reliably win down state battles because of their pet.

One of the primary reasons for targeting someone in a teamfight is simply “Who has the easiest downstate to stomp?”. Mesmers, Thieves and Eles are rarely primary targets because they can avoid being stomped for a longer period of time than any other professions.

Would love to see some tweaking in the down state area.

Yeah, I’m a Necro too and feel its one of the worst downed states. Don’t worry I’m soldier/wells not FOTM condi spam =P

But dude.. you can fear ONE PERSON and AoE poison!!!! OP!!!!

/sarcasm – necro downed state is horrid

LilMcGinley.3890:

Unless the warrior throws his hammer immediately after he is downed, dodging and stomping before vengeance isn’t going to happen.

Then you’re doing it wrong.
Unless you kill him from 1200 range and have to get close to stomp, warrior cannot vengeance before the dodge/stomp.

downed state was something ported from games like gears of war (where you couldn’t attack while downed). It was meant to add another element of strategy, but it only works for slower games.

In gears of war “4” they removed it in an attempt to make the gameplay faster.

It has no other purpose than this. Anyone that says its a counter to burst, its not. Most professions who can burst you down can also have an ability up to either haste stomp you before you can interrupt, turn invuln, block, blind you or gain stability.

Its really just there at this point as a gimmick. It really would be better if some of the offencive stats were toned down or HP pools increased slightly …or hell, just remove the kitten thing entirely. Tbh it just results in a lot of toxic scenerios…

Example: I down someone really fast right off a point and I know he has no friends nearby. I cap point and sit safely far away from him (or i’m just so tanky his little pokes aren’t a threat). He tries to heal himself…I wait till hes close to rezzing and pelt him a few times to interrupt….he tries again, I pelt him to interrupt….

he realizes that rezzing himself isn’t working so he has to sit there and slowly bleed. Thus I took him out of the game for WAY longer than he would have been if it had just flat out killed him resulting in a frusterated player and another player who didn’t get much enjoyment out of screwing with him.

I like downed state, but it’s definitely not balanced. I don’t know why the classes with the best stomp prevention also have the best abilities to secure stomps.

Ele can mist form and run away to buy time. They can also mist form when alive and secure a stomp while invulnerable.

Thief can shadow butt-step and stealth. They can also black powder to blind, or stealth to stomp.

Mesmer can stealth and create a clone, they can also go invulnerable to secure a stomp.

On the flip side we have Necromancer. 30pt trait for stability, 1 tick of blind, or plague form on a 120 second cd to secure a stomp. Downed state? Single target fear. Not balanced.

I feel like people are thinking about this in 1v1’s for some reason. That’s not the point. If you down someone in 1v1 downstate doesn’t effect the outcome among any decent player.(Maybe a thief with down damage) Most of the down #2 are telegraphed and easily dodgeable. Yes you can interupt your stomp by dodging the knockdown,fear,stun etc then start stomping again and get it off before the #3 comes of cd. Thief, ele’s and mesmers are different but can be dealt with in there own way.

When i mentioned burst, i meant burst in a team fight. Actual burst, from several players onto one target. Target’s go down, it then becomes about which team can cc or dps in order to res or stomp. Again, check the latest tournament to see how much back and forth the downstate brings to the game. Without down state team fights would be determined by who ever comes out of stealth first dies.

Bleeding out may be a unpopular tactic i have no problem with it but they could simply add a “kill me now” button to #5 if anet felt it was causing trouble for some players. Some downstates need some balancing but downstate its self is a solid mechanic.

xehn.3420:

LilMcGinley.3890:

Unless the warrior throws his hammer immediately after he is downed, dodging and stomping before vengeance isn’t going to happen.

Then you’re doing it wrong.
Unless you kill him from 1200 range and have to get close to stomp, warrior cannot vengeance before the dodge/stomp.

This!

xehn.3420:

LilMcGinley.3890:

Unless the warrior throws his hammer immediately after he is downed, dodging and stomping before vengeance isn’t going to happen.

Then you’re doing it wrong.
Unless you kill him from 1200 range and have to get close to stomp, warrior cannot vengeance before the dodge/stomp.

I’m usually on my necro or ranger, so about 5-600.. no teleports, so it is tough. A dodge is 2-3s for positioning, actual spike is what 3? so yes, with no interrupt you have 1 second to spike them. CD on Vengeance is 7 seconds from when you use your downed skills.

Granted there is no else around to interfere of course.

Just tested in sPvP – 1s left on Veng timer

Merlin Dyfed Avalon.5046:

Everyone should be on equal ground.

No they shouldn’t this is like saying there should be only 1 profession. Some downed state make u invincible for a few seconds, other invulnerable some res faster other knockback. They ALL have their pros/cons and that’s the point of different professions the downed states excel in different areas but their all useful. The only thing that really is not balanced is how a ele can instantly mist form into a wvw keep when downed.

Grackleflint.4956:

Then there would be 50% less things for Shoutcasters to talk about.

That would be a good thing. At least, if they make all the downed states uniform, it would be a lot less interesting but a lot more fair.

You could make everyone’s auto-attack different but the stomp evasion the same. Throw rock to daze target.

Downed state is there to replace the need for healers. Watch some top teams and see how fast the rez people. That’s the key to staying in game in high level play. In 4v3 at mid one team is already at quite a disadvantage when everyone is performing well.

to bother people and make them make threads like this.

actually, i have a love/hate thing about it. its funny when you down/kill someone in down state, or when someone fears some guy about to stomp you and then rallies you.

but at the same time, its annoying and stupid when you end up getting 5v1’d or something.