Guild Wars 2

What build can hold off the most people for the longest time, in general?

Still a guardian? Turret Engi? Regen ranger?

I am considering trying a far point “time-waster” to help the team on other points.

Somewhere between turret engineer and elementalist.

Both have extreme amounts of condi cleanse. Although elementalist is known for it, engineers somehow obtained it and I’m sure it wasn’t intended for engineers to have such good condi cleanse. A lot better condi cleanse than guardian that’s for sure. Also the amount of knockbacks and utilities they have as well.

2 things needs to get toned down about engineer.
Rifle
Water splashing thing they do (they think they ele’s but they aint)

Would a full heal and toughness staff Elementalist with great condi cleanse be able to hold a point 1v2 for quite a while?

Honestly there is another post about this going on already (What class can carry noob team the best). The answer to both is a bunker spec. As I stated there, it all depends on the enemy teams composition. Therefore best bunker would vary each map so there is no correct answer. Since you need to go in with the most diversity possible, I would say an Ele is best all around choice for hold in pugs. Turret engi with net/ thumper is also great hold for a while in the low lvls (ONLY) of PvP. A Cele shout war is also a good choice as a cele engi.

All around, do all pug status, I would say Ele.

Just test by using various builds on classes and having 2 or 3 guys on various combos of classes damage you OP while you cycle through your skills and time how long you last on classes.

What I have read from other posters have don’t seem to take into account opponents.

My guess is a guardian is still better than others for bunking points if you just measured by how long a class can last.

SobeSoul.6910:

Just test by using various builds on classes and having 2 or 3 guys on various combos of classes damage you OP while you cycle through your skills and time how long you last on classes.

What I have read from other posters have don’t seem to take into account opponents.

My guess is a guardian is still better than others for bunking points if you just measured by how long a class can last.

Hey, he thinks like me I just don’t agree with the guard. Guards do way better in group bunk mode IMO.

What can bunker versus the most amount of people for the longest?

Engi, Ele? What are you guys smoking.

It’s Guardian by a large margin. They just can’t have that ability and still 1v1 or 2v2 well.

Guardian: Block block block block, evade, heal, evade, heal, block block block block, invulnerable, invulnerable invulnerable, block block block, heal, evade, heal, evade, heal, block block block, blind, block……….

A good bunker guardian can keep quite a few people occupied for a good amount of time in the average fight. :P

Kako.1930:

Guardian: Block block block block, evade, heal, evade, heal, block block block block, invulnerable, invulnerable invulnerable, block block block, heal, evade, heal, evade, heal, block block block, blind, block……….

A good bunker guardian can keep quite a few people occupied for a good amount of time in the average fight. :P

So false,
I see a lot of that more with an engineer.
Thing is they got extra stuff that further allows them to stall players, like that rifle 3 knockback. kitten needs some toning down. Its like they can time all there skills perfectly so you cant do kitten to them.

Engineer rifle 3 needs to be like guardian hammer knockback. Needs a long kitten cast time, so you can clearly see it coming.

Also, if I’m not mistaken that kitten knocks you off node too. If guardian hammer was as smooth as the engineer rifle 3, you’d see a lot more guardians running around with a hammer, but since its so kitten slow and pretty much gets avoided every single time, nobody uses that kitten.

Tone down engineer rifle 3 or tone up guardian hammer knockback.

Also, that engineer wrench kit block. Should not be able to move while blocking attacks. If anything, the warrior should only be able to block attacks while moving using a shield.

Engineers aren’t suppose to be the strongest class where they can move around with a shield, that’s suppose to be a warrior.
Engineers aren’t suppose to be running around splashing water and curing condi’s like your condi’s don’t mean nothing to him, that’s suppose to be an elementalist.

Tone those engineers down.
Note, I mentioned NOTHING about celestial amulet scapegoat bullkitten. Only mentioned engineers.

Last I checked guardian’s hammer doesn’t self cc…

if i had your goal:

a settler amulet condition warrior with undead runes is great for far point “time waster” that you speak of.

longbow + sword with either shield or another sword off hand. something with minimum 0/2/6/0/3 you can spend the other 3 points in different ways depending….

This build is fast enough with signet of fury and sword 2 to easily get to far point right off the bat before the enemy can cap it.

This build has very high armor and regeneration and is defensively strong against both condition and direct damage. When played well, this build has a good advantage against thieves, mesmers, rangers, engineers, and necros that are not condition based. it doesn’t do really well against guardians, other warriors, elementalists, or condition necros, but it can survive quite awhile against pretty much anything. A fear-based condition necromancer is your biggest threat.

it’s not a pure bunker that you are describing, but it is very bunkery and also the classes the enemy team usually sends home first are typically the ones you have an advantage against, so you can waste a lot of the enemy’s time with this build – imo more than you could with a pure bunker build simply because you can actually kill the far point defender and cap the point for yourself a lot of the time where a bunker can’t do that.

Thanks for the thoughts so far! I am learning a lot reading this thread. I am sure others are as well.

Chaith.8256:

What can bunker versus the most amount of people for the longest?

Engi, Ele? What are you guys smoking.

It’s Guardian by a large margin. They just can’t have that ability and still 1v1 or 2v2 well.

This by a longshot. Ele and Engie are great at sustaining in a 1v1, but not under focus fire from multiple opponents.

uberkingkong.8041:

Kako.1930:

Guardian: Block block block block, evade, heal, evade, heal, block block block block, invulnerable, invulnerable invulnerable, block block block, heal, evade, heal, evade, heal, block block block, blind, block……….

A good bunker guardian can keep quite a few people occupied for a good amount of time in the average fight. :P

So false,
I see a lot of that more with an engineer.
Thing is they got extra stuff that further allows them to stall players, like that rifle 3 knockback. kitten needs some toning down. Its like they can time all there skills perfectly so you cant do kitten to them.

Engineer rifle 3 needs to be like guardian hammer knockback. Needs a long kitten cast time, so you can clearly see it coming.

Also, if I’m not mistaken that kitten knocks you off node too. If guardian hammer was as smooth as the engineer rifle 3, you’d see a lot more guardians running around with a hammer, but since its so kitten slow and pretty much gets avoided every single time, nobody uses that kitten.

Tone down engineer rifle 3 or tone up guardian hammer knockback.

Also, that engineer wrench kit block. Should not be able to move while blocking attacks. If anything, the warrior should only be able to block attacks while moving using a shield.

Engineers aren’t suppose to be the strongest class where they can move around with a shield, that’s suppose to be a warrior.
Engineers aren’t suppose to be running around splashing water and curing condi’s like your condi’s don’t mean nothing to him, that’s suppose to be an elementalist.

Tone those engineers down.
Note, I mentioned NOTHING about celestial amulet scapegoat bullkitten. Only mentioned engineers.

I really don’t think you understand Engineer or have played the class very much.

Firstly, a Guardian can keep people occupied for much longer. Due to a few reasons, one key one however is access to stability. Engineers have incredibly little to no stability and thus simply get cc’d off a point or get stunned and blown up by a Thief. Guardians also have access to Aegis, block on heal, spam/aoe blind, all of which most Engineer builds do not have access to.

Secondly, the Engineer rifle 3 is blunderbuss. I believe you are referring to the rifle 4 which is Overcharged shot. The range on this ability is so incredibly low you have no idea, it is pretty much a point black shot and that’s it. It also knocks back the Engineer themselves, making them vulnerable to, again, Thieves and Warriors etc.

Engineers also do not cure conditions like elementalists do, in fact, Engineers have some of the lowest if not the lowest condition cleanse in the entire game. The healing turret’s overcharged burst clears 2 condis every 20 seconds if the turret is detonated. The elixir gun clears 1. That is all of the condi clear the popular engi builds at the moment have.

If you want to make points about a class, please at least attempt to understand that class. Engineer is strong at the moment for sure, but it is not without its weaknesses which you seem to believe it is.

He does the same things to necros

I’d say either AH Bunker Guard or Shoutbow War. Engis can be good for side points, but lack the stability to compete with guard/war.

Chaith.8256:

What can bunker versus the most amount of people for the longest?

Engi, Ele? What are you guys smoking.

It’s Guardian by a large margin. They just can’t have that ability and still 1v1 or 2v2 well.

if we’re going to say bunker guard can hold people 1v1 and 1v2 then we should also include cleric staff ele since both are useless

uberkingkong.8041:

….. turret engineer…..

I have to be honest with you. If you truely believe turret engineers of all the engineer builds, is strong, much less a top bunker, I have to seriously question you knowledge of the build.

Booms.2594:

if we’re going to say bunker guard can hold people 1v1 and 1v2 then we should also include cleric staff ele since both are useless

Would you mind explaining how they are “useless” at bunkering?

D/D cele ele is currently the best bunker in the game. Engi is second. Guardian is third.

Chaith.8256:

What can bunker versus the most amount of people for the longest?

Engi, Ele? What are you guys smoking.

It’s Guardian by a large margin. They just can’t have that ability and still 1v1 or 2v2 well.

lol. Sure. That’s why you guys run 2 cele eles. Nice joke though.

They run 2 cele eles because rather than have a full bunker on the team they opted for more rounded out builds that can do multiple things well with good mobility. Not because a cele is a better bunker.

coglin.1867:

uberkingkong.8041:

….. turret engineer…..

I have to be honest with you. If you truely believe turret engineers of all the engineer builds, is strong, much less a top bunker, I have to seriously question you knowledge of the build.

Booms.2594:

if we’re going to say bunker guard can hold people 1v1 and 1v2 then we should also include cleric staff ele since both are useless

Would you mind explaining how they are “useless” at bunkering?

just like s/d ele is the best “damage and burst” in the game, guardian may be the best bunker but that means nothing since overall they arent as helpful

Booms.2594:

coglin.1867:

uberkingkong.8041:

….. turret engineer…..

I have to be honest with you. If you truely believe turret engineers of all the engineer builds, is strong, much less a top bunker, I have to seriously question you knowledge of the build.

Booms.2594:

if we’re going to say bunker guard can hold people 1v1 and 1v2 then we should also include cleric staff ele since both are useless

Would you mind explaining how they are “useless” at bunkering?

just like s/d ele is the best “damage and burst” in the game, guardian may be the best bunker but that means nothing since overall they arent as helpful

And?

The question was very specifically

What build can hold off the most people for the longest time, in general?

This isn’t some random thread to attack builds you do not like. This is a thread around a very specific question and topic.

The Baws.5164:

I really don’t think you understand Engineer or have played the class very much.

Firstly, a Guardian can keep people occupied for much longer. Due to a few reasons, one key one however is access to stability. Engineers have incredibly little to no stability and thus simply get cc’d off a point or get stunned and blown up by a Thief. Guardians also have access to Aegis, block on heal, spam/aoe blind, all of which most Engineer builds do not have access to.

Secondly, the Engineer rifle 3 is blunderbuss. I believe you are referring to the rifle 4 which is Overcharged shot. The range on this ability is so incredibly low you have no idea, it is pretty much a point black shot and that’s it. It also knocks back the Engineer themselves, making them vulnerable to, again, Thieves and Warriors etc.

Engineers also do not cure conditions like elementalists do, in fact, Engineers have some of the lowest if not the lowest condition cleanse in the entire game. The healing turret’s overcharged burst clears 2 condis every 20 seconds if the turret is detonated. The elixir gun clears 1. That is all of the condi clear the popular engi builds at the moment have.

If you want to make points about a class, please at least attempt to understand that class. Engineer is strong at the moment for sure, but it is not without its weaknesses which you seem to believe it is.

True fact on stability, one of the better things Guardian’s bring.

Inaccurate statement on the guardian aoe blind spam. A bunker guardian typically is not running GS/SwFc, so they do not have the blind spam that a medi guard utilizes. They “may” have VoJ blind trait every 25-30 seconds depending on traits.

Healing block is pretty powerful, and weak at the same time.
It has one of the longest cooldown durations and low heal output.
While it has huge damage avoidance potential though, IF used against burst abilities, persistent damage via conditions defeats the strength of shelter due to the low healing output.

Aegis is a block or two every 32-ish seconds on Retreat and 75-90 seconds on VoC.

That is about 2% aegis uptime.

I don’t presume to know Engineer builds too much, but with Gadgeteer, an engini can get Aegis every 18-ish seconds when using throw mine.

Also Armor Mods gives them Aegis every 15 seconds when being struck.

Those two traits provide higher Aegis uptime. Somewhere about 11%.

Blunderbuss is pretty powerful with drawbacks like you said. It is a single target CC that also shortly CCs the engi. The strength is the short duration 15s cooldown and the hard to see warning animation. The short range I think is negligible, as you are fighting on a point and other classes also are limited to a melee range pushback (not counting ranger)

Guardian hammer has a 25s cooldown with a huge visual tell. Warrior are better off here with hammer doing an AoE pushback every 20s.

Condi cleanse on engi is not “terrible”, it is actually pretty modest. The guardian simply has the superior condition cleansing, as they rely on that to live and be viable.

If anything the engi trait Automated Response helps mitigate a lot of conditions as it reduces duration by 50% (under 33% life). This would make things like burning have no effect, and vastly reduce bleed damage.

Is Fumigate self activating as well? Guardian’s have been asking for Cleansing Flame on torch 5 to cure conditions on self as well as allies since launch and before.

NeXeD.3042:

They run 2 cele eles because rather than have a full bunker on the team they opted for more rounded out builds that can do multiple things well with good mobility. Not because a cele is a better bunker.

Oh really? and tell me what class can come onto a point defended by a D/D cele ele and act as a hard counter.

style.6173:

NeXeD.3042:

They run 2 cele eles because rather than have a full bunker on the team they opted for more rounded out builds that can do multiple things well with good mobility. Not because a cele is a better bunker.

Oh really? and tell me what class can come onto a point defended by a D/D cele ele and act as a hard counter.

If your limiting your scope to profession, I feel your selling it short. I have great success against D/D ele with certain warrior builds, certain engineer builds, and very good success with specific ranger builds. Particularly builds that allow rapid reapplication of poison.

Yeah but you get his point right? I think he is just steering people towards the current meta

style.6173:

NeXeD.3042:

They run 2 cele eles because rather than have a full bunker on the team they opted for more rounded out builds that can do multiple things well with good mobility. Not because a cele is a better bunker.

Oh really? and tell me what class can come onto a point defended by a D/D cele ele and act as a hard counter.

Shatter mesmer? I know he won’t stay on point but if the ele wants to win he’s going to have to leave that point too. Also necros can win. Another DD ele….

NeXeD.3042:

They run 2 cele eles because rather than have a full bunker on the team they opted for more rounded out builds that can do multiple things well with good mobility. Not because a cele is a better bunker.

This guy gets it.

The truth has been spoken about Guardians having the longest time to kill when being attacked by multiple enemies. Don’t hear what I’m not saying, I’m not saying bunker Guardians are a top pick.

Delaying power is just a factor when deciding what picks you are bringing to conquest. And frankly, having the best delaying ability is not worth sacrificing the level of damage, mobility, and dueling ability that a D/D Ele brings.

OP asks the toughest bunker, based on that one dimension alone (which conquest picks take multiple dimensions into account) the proper answer is Bunker Guardian.

Yo style. Lets not kitten the discussion up by speculating who can take a d/d ele in a 1v1. That’s not how the game actually works out in reality. Often times I have to leave a point on my ele when a necro decides to corrupt boon and his pack of hooligans decide to try to burst me down. Whereas guardians are able to sustain themselves on point until halp arrives.

I suggest you GOOGLE: Cruuk’s Decapitation Build

Yeah. Pushing far to multiple deaths which is how that build works is always recommended Kappa

GhOst.4019:

SobeSoul.6910:

Just test by using various builds on classes and having 2 or 3 guys on various combos of classes damage you OP while you cycle through your skills and time how long you last on classes.

What I have read from other posters have don’t seem to take into account opponents.

My guess is a guardian is still better than others for bunking points if you just measured by how long a class can last.

Guards do way better in group bunk mode IMO.

That’s where you are wrong.

The old school 0/0/2/6/6 virtue bunker is more capable of “stalling” than most any build out there without the requirement of having teammates nearby to supply boons to and proc AH heals. With a competent team the AH build shines, but the OP asked for a “pure” bunker.