Thief 80 | Elementalist 80 | Mesmer 80 | Necromancer 80 | Revenant TBA
(edited by JoshuaRAWR.4653)
Just curious as to what the community considers to be broken builds.
I don’t mean broken as in not viable, or unplayable, i mean builds that simply have too much damage output for how much effort is invested.
For example, Eviscerate doing 9k+ Damage with one button press, is this balanced? As a medi guardian i have no problems with axe using warriors, it’s easy to tell when the evis is coming, thus making it easy to avoid, and i have a plethora of blocks to also deal with it should i have no evades, If i’m caught without either blocks or evades, then that’s my own fault.
But I’ve seen a lot of complaints on the forums about LB Power rangers, Celestial Engineers & Ele’s, the Celestial warrior build (to an extent, though this isn’t talked about as much i feel).
So, what class is genuinely broken and needs a look at?
Personally i feel shatter mesmers have way too much going on for their shatters, specifically when in the meta shatter spec.
F3 Confuses, Dazes, Grants might, applies 5 stacks of vuln (per shatter), as well as doing pretty high damage, I think it’s a bit too much, but what do the rest of you think?
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Edit: I am specifically asking about classes that can be too effective for minimal effort, such as 1 or 2 button presses, ranger lb #2, necro elite #1 in a power build etc, these sorts of things.
I said Mesmer f3 because while it involves setting up, it is still only 1 button press and i (This is my opinion, don’t roast me on this) feel it does too much for 1 press.
(edited by JoshuaRAWR.4653)
Personally i feel shatter mesmers have way too much going on for their shatters, specifically when in the meta shatter spec.
F3 Confuses, Dazes, Grants might, applies 5 stacks of vuln (per shatter), as well as doing pretty high damage, I think it’s a bit too much, but what do the rest of you think?
First off, Mesmer is fine except for fire/air sigils right now. They need no nerfs. Second, in order to get your super amazing diversion, I have to invest 6 in illusions, 4 in dueling (no mes build is viable without DE), and 3 in domination. Sounds fair?
Personally i feel shatter mesmers have way too much going on for their shatters, specifically when in the meta shatter spec.
F3 Confuses, Dazes, Grants might, applies 5 stacks of vuln (per shatter), as well as doing pretty high damage, I think it’s a bit too much, but what do the rest of you think?First off, Mesmer is fine except for fire/air sigils right now. They need no nerfs. Second, in order to get your super amazing diversion, I have to invest 6 in illusions, 4 in dueling (no mes build is viable without DE), and 3 in domination. Sounds fair?
You mean the build that pretty much every mesmer in PvP is running because of how strong it is, how’s that any different to saying
“If i want to get x i have to put x into x”?
Personally i feel shatter mesmers have way too much going on for their shatters, specifically when in the meta shatter spec.
F3 Confuses, Dazes, Grants might, applies 5 stacks of vuln (per shatter), as well as doing pretty high damage, I think it’s a bit too much, but what do the rest of you think?First off, Mesmer is fine except for fire/air sigils right now. They need no nerfs. Second, in order to get your super amazing diversion, I have to invest 6 in illusions, 4 in dueling (no mes build is viable without DE), and 3 in domination. Sounds fair?
You mean the build that pretty much every mesmer in PvP is running because of how strong it is, how’s that any different to saying
“If i want to get x i have to put x into x”?
Its the only “Viable” build mesmers play because of its very strong aoe burst damage, boon removal, and portal. CI is also a close contender, but it generally is less popular for some odd reason. Also, if Mesmer was so strong, why doesn’t every team run double Mesmer these days like engi and ele?
Short answer:
D/D Ele’s
Shoutbow Warriors
Engineer’s(condition or cele)
100b warrior build is broken.
You hardly see any warrior use gs in PvP.
Thing is, why go 100b warrior when you can go power ranger?
100b takes a long time to pull off, easily side stepped and just avoiding it in general due to how slow the damage stacks.
Now power ranger, skill 2, pew pew pew, half health dropped in mere seconds, super fast, you cant side step it, pretty much autoaimed. Also you have the 4 knockback.
Now why melee is so weak compared to range, that’s beyond me.
Feels like most melee classes are broken.
If you eat a full 100b, you should barely have any health left at all, sadly its not the case.
You see Hman around anymore? He pretty much was in every top team, ever since 100b warrior broke, I don’t see him around anymore. If he is still around, he is a 100b warrior type player, this new tanky meta isn’t his playstyle. He likes to kitten people and say “GEEEEET kittenED”.
I like people with that playstyle.
That one wvw/pvp warrior/guardian player plays like that too, nyms nymph something.
People like those kind of players.
Now players like throw a bunch of condi’s and keep fighting and the other guy drops because nothing hit him but just because he got sick of condi’s and his hp went out, that’s just a lame fight. Theres no screaming GEEEET kittenED in those moments. Stupid, lame way to go out, needs more intensity, actual stuff showing the other person getting kitten d and not just “whoops I ate too many condi’s got sick, nothing hitting me but I’ma die because I ate too many condi’s”.
So lame, needs more animations and decapitations, thiller, exciting, humiliating ways to show people getting whooped. 100b was one of those in a kind of way.
People see someone getting 100b they say “OOOOOOH OOOOWNED”
excitement level high
People see someone getting whooped by condi’s, “oh? how did he die? oooh”
excitement level low
(edited by uberkingkong.8041)
Short answer:
D/D Ele’s
Shoutbow Warriors
Engineer’s(condition or cele)
Best answer right here.
Its the only “Viable” build mesmers play because of its very strong aoe burst damage, boon removal, and portal. CI is also a close contender, but it generally is less popular for some odd reason. Also, if Mesmer was so strong, why doesn’t every team run double Mesmer these days like engi and ele?
I don’t think you’re understanding the point of my thread, just because a class isn’t used in group setups more often than others, doesn’t mean that the class hasn’t got any problems.
Yes celestial is strong, but so are those that aren’t using celestial, a class doesn’t need to be used more over another in Tpvp for it to be obscenely powerful.
(edited by JoshuaRAWR.4653)
I don’t think you’re understanding the point of my thread, just because a class isn’t used in group setups more often than others, doesn’t mean that the class hasn’t got any problems.
Yes celestial is strong, but so are those that aren’t using celestial, a class doesn’t need to be used more over another in Tpvp for it to be obscenely powerful.
This is why I listed the 3 above. It’s not the amulets/runes that make them strong but rather their trait/skill setup.
I don’t think you’re understanding the point of my thread, just because a class isn’t used in group setups more often than others, doesn’t mean that the class hasn’t got any problems.
Yes celestial is strong, but so are those that aren’t using celestial, a class doesn’t need to be used more over another in Tpvp for it to be obscenely powerful.
This is why I listed the 3 above. It’s not the amulets/runes that make them strong but rather their trait/skill setup.
I agree, to an extent, for example if you stick a D/D ele in a zerk amulet, they’ll dish out obscene amounts of damage, but they’ll also get wrecked by the blast from a guardians shield of wrath alone.
I don’t think you’re understanding the point of my thread, just because a class isn’t used in group setups more often than others, doesn’t mean that the class hasn’t got any problems.
Yes celestial is strong, but so are those that aren’t using celestial, a class doesn’t need to be used more over another in Tpvp for it to be obscenely powerful.
This is why I listed the 3 above. It’s not the amulets/runes that make them strong but rather their trait/skill setup.
I agree, to an extent, for example if you stick a D/D ele in a zerk amulet, they’ll dish out obscene amounts of damage, but they’ll also get wrecked by the blast from a guardians shield of wrath alone.
That’s also false. They still maintain 65% or more up time on most boons which most professions cannot rip.
Edit: Like I said, the amulet helps accentuate the problem but the main issue has always been the professions themselves.
Personally i feel shatter mesmers have way too much going on for their shatters, specifically when in the meta shatter spec.
F3 Confuses, Dazes, Grants might, applies 5 stacks of vuln (per shatter), as well as doing pretty high damage, I think it’s a bit too much, but what do the rest of you think?First off, Mesmer is fine except for fire/air sigils right now. They need no nerfs. Second, in order to get your super amazing diversion, I have to invest 6 in illusions, 4 in dueling (no mes build is viable without DE), and 3 in domination. Sounds fair?
You mean the build that pretty much every mesmer in PvP is running because of how strong it is, how’s that any different to saying
“If i want to get x i have to put x into x”?
And the same build that most competent thieves destroy in less than ten seconds. There is no build that is so frequently, easily, and quickly countered by another kittenter mesmer is by thief. Whatever shatter mesmer brings to the table is nullified by the mere presence of one class on the other team, so long as the opposing thief isn’t absolutely terrible.
I feel like i should rephrase my thread a bit, I’m beginning to think i didn’t word it as well as i could have.
Oh ya, I forgot to mention my build was broken.
Automated Response sumo build.
Got replaced by turret engy meta.
I see more negative feedback from community about turrets, than I did when automated response was working as intended.
Matter of fact I hardly seen any automated response whiners.
They broke automated response not by the “a little at a time” method like they talk and talk about. (we bring this skill from 6 seconds to 4 or 5 seconds).
Nah they did a massive sledgehammer to the automated response build. Broke it in half, literally went from 100% to 50%.
That’s a 50% nerf, none of that “a little at a time” full of crap they talk about in toning down things, they toned automated response down so hard that they broke it.
Lemme tell ya something, 25% to 33% is nothing but a joke, so don’t even look at that crap. You nerfed something 50%, you nerfed the big pizza 50%, and you buff the tiny pizza (25%) 50%?
That aint fair at all. That’s like saying I’ll take 50% of your million, but in return I’ll give you 50% of my one thousand dollars.
That’s kittening scam right there.
Sumo engy, broker than ever all because of that.
Sumo engy at least required skills and you were more able to do things to them, than you can to turret engies.
Sumo had to outwit the guy off the node, the turret engy, just forces the person off the node. Also, sumo engy couldn’t kill kitten, the turret engy not only kittens people up, it kittens multiple people up too WHILE holding a node.
Sumo engy, all you did was hold the node, wasn’t much help to the teamfight because all you have is knockbacks and do like 0 damage. Turret engy, you got so much bullkitten, they need to get rid of some of that bullkitten.
It’s really all the fault of these new developers, if only they stuck with the original idea (AR is suppose to be 100%), they’d do good. I miss the original idea of PvP. I feel like this new idea is nothing but a few steps forward, and GIANT steps backwards.
Like hotjoins, I really miss doing hotjoins, I don’t call this practice kitten hotjoins, I call that newb farming. 5v5 bullcrap, what they considering 3v3 2v2 bullcrap now too? Go back to 8v8, automated teams, let real custom arenas be spectatable or have real 8v8 arenas you either spectate only or play only, you cant do both. Tired of this “its ok to watch and join winning team”. I want some real matches, some fun matches.
ORIGINAL IDEA thinking.
Not this new idea “hey lets give em solo que, lets make people turn into solo’ers”. Oh we don’t have any real pvp guilds anymore, maybe it was a bad idea to turn everyone into “solo’ers”, time to go back to the ORIGINAL IDEA.
Now you gotta WORK HARDER.
You know what they say, you do one bad thing to someone, its going to take a lot of good things to get them back.
You instilled a bad habit upon people, its gonna take a lot of work to get them back into good habits. Undo button isn’t gonna cut it in real life bubba.
I swear there use to be more pvp developers, because I remember sotg there was like 3 of them, and I’m not too familiar with this new guy. But I remember one of those old guys, ORIGINAL IDEA people talking in sotg about pvp templates….
My guess is that he was almost done (got the pvp build tab up), about to put the template into that tab, but than got fired or some NEW IDEA came up and that ORIGINAL IDEA went into the garbage.
Lemme tell ya something, people have been asking that template when it was suggested by that developer, and they still be asking for easy way to swap builds, and its very dumb to stop that progress.
Because we could be having maps like spirit watch and skyhammer in ranked que, but since people don’t make there builds but use other people builds and developers don’t know this, and people cant change there build to a spirit watch or skyhammer build in time, they whine and hence 2 maps, thrown outta ranked, which means pretty much if it aint ranked, its garbage.
Garbage maps are now Courtyard, Skyhammer, Spirit Watch, and Raid of Capricorn…. It’s very sad how the 3 newest maps are garbage.
I really do enjoy all of those but Courtyard, its one of those stupid new idea, listen to wrong people type idea. Total Deathmatch map, TDM is dumb. 2v2 dumb. 3v3 dumb.
You want a TDM? Go to Obsidian Sanctum and duke it out there.
(edited by uberkingkong.8041)
I don’t think you’re understanding the point of my thread, just because a class isn’t used in group setups more often than others, doesn’t mean that the class hasn’t got any problems.
Yes celestial is strong, but so are those that aren’t using celestial, a class doesn’t need to be used more over another in Tpvp for it to be obscenely powerful.
This is why I listed the 3 above. It’s not the amulets/runes that make them strong but rather their trait/skill setup.
I agree, to an extent, for example if you stick a D/D ele in a zerk amulet, they’ll dish out obscene amounts of damage, but they’ll also get wrecked by the blast from a guardians shield of wrath alone.
That’s also false. They still maintain 65% or more up time on most boons which most professions cannot rip.
Edit: Like I said, the amulet helps accentuate the problem but the main issue has always been the professions themselves.
DD ele still had all of those boons before the celestial buff and were complete trash tier. They did recieve a few small buffs but no one thought it would make a difference… until they learned of the celestial buff. Can’t just compare things about builds in a vacuum, every class is op in a way.
I don’t think you’re understanding the point of my thread, just because a class isn’t used in group setups more often than others, doesn’t mean that the class hasn’t got any problems.
Yes celestial is strong, but so are those that aren’t using celestial, a class doesn’t need to be used more over another in Tpvp for it to be obscenely powerful.
This is why I listed the 3 above. It’s not the amulets/runes that make them strong but rather their trait/skill setup.
I agree, to an extent, for example if you stick a D/D ele in a zerk amulet, they’ll dish out obscene amounts of damage, but they’ll also get wrecked by the blast from a guardians shield of wrath alone.
That’s also false. They still maintain 65% or more up time on most boons which most professions cannot rip.
Edit: Like I said, the amulet helps accentuate the problem but the main issue has always been the professions themselves.
DD ele still had all of those boons before the celestial buff and were complete trash tier. They did recieve a few small buffs but no one thought it would make a difference… until they learned of the celestial buff. Can’t just compare things about builds in a vacuum, every class is op in a way.
Never considered them trash-tier, just there were better options(hambow/spirit ranger) at the time. Just because something is more viable/powerful, doesn’t mean the build you were using was trash.
Edit: It’s only when unnecessary buffs are put into play that put certain skills/traits over-the-top. This does not make any prior build “trash.”
(edited by Arken.3725)
shoutheal is weak against focused fire
but its working now, because every one just run dd ele, rifle engi or w/e tanky dueling build and run off in all points trying to 1v1 2v2.
Not sure what you want to accomplish from this thread.
People are going to list the skills that annoy them, or that their particular build doesn’t have a counter for, like ranger LB2, necro lich form, mezmer MOA, etc…
But none of those are viable at tournament level so who cares?
Not sure what you want to accomplish from this thread.
People are going to list the skills that annoy them, or that their particular build doesn’t have a counter for, like ranger LB2, necro lich form, mezmer MOA, etc…
But none of those are viable at tournament level so who cares?
I initially worded the thread wrong, and from there it went a bit off-track, I’m more after what abilities/classes people feel have too much output for such little input.
I don’t think you’re understanding the point of my thread, just because a class isn’t used in group setups more often than others, doesn’t mean that the class hasn’t got any problems.
Yes celestial is strong, but so are those that aren’t using celestial, a class doesn’t need to be used more over another in Tpvp for it to be obscenely powerful.
This is why I listed the 3 above. It’s not the amulets/runes that make them strong but rather their trait/skill setup.
I agree, to an extent, for example if you stick a D/D ele in a zerk amulet, they’ll dish out obscene amounts of damage, but they’ll also get wrecked by the blast from a guardians shield of wrath alone.
That’s also false. They still maintain 65% or more up time on most boons which most professions cannot rip.
Edit: Like I said, the amulet helps accentuate the problem but the main issue has always been the professions themselves.
DD ele still had all of those boons before the celestial buff and were complete trash tier. They did recieve a few small buffs but no one thought it would make a difference… until they learned of the celestial buff. Can’t just compare things about builds in a vacuum, every class is op in a way.
That’s imo false. The metagame and the DD ele in the context of that metagame may not have been “viable,” but that didn’t make the build bad. It just made it harder to play which increased the disparity between the floor/ceiling to play the class, and the GW2 metagame builds for the most part have always been “least resistance,” or the most forgiving builds people can play.
The equivalent comment for the current metagame would be like saying that “mesmers are trash tier” when clearly it’s an issue of skill input to success ratio and not an issue of ineffectiveness.
Eles with just traits can heal 3k (4k+ with skill use) every 10 seconds before even factoring in stats gained from amulets/runes or regen, and protection access nearly as needed if cooldowns are juggled correctly. Just before, players had to choose between doing damage and being squishier and doing damage or being tanky and sustaining.
Celestial didn’t balance ele. It just gave them the exact tools needed to do everything with one build while having no repercussions, with the only thing needed to know to play the build being general “how to PvP effectively” knowledge, a build link, and/or a youtube video showing you basic rotations.
The only problem is how to balance what I mentioned. Remove base healing or boons and increasing the need for stat input for scaling only hurts squishier builds and pigeonholes into sustain amulets, and in general, removing ANYTHING hurts more than fixes at this point.
The best solution would be to make the healing values not scale (or have super minimal scaling) given from the main offender traits, and maybe shaving some protection and regen duration.
The tl;dr being that celestial was only buffed by like 60 points per stat so there is no way that celestial is the cause of the issue alone. The might stacking nerf maybe helped a bit, but the problem most players have has never been the output, it’s the ability to sustain so well while having enough output to not be considered a fair tradeoff.
Not sure what you want to accomplish from this thread.
People are going to list the skills that annoy them, or that their particular build doesn’t have a counter for, like ranger LB2, necro lich form, mezmer MOA, etc…
But none of those are viable at tournament level so who cares?
I initially worded the thread wrong, and from there it went a bit off-track, I’m more after what abilities/classes people feel have too much output for such little input.
So you’re essentially asking what class is easier than another. Again people are going to list things like ranger LB, lich form etc…
But we know those are not OP because they have counters and top players don’t use them.
For someone to play and win with a ranger in a high level tournament they would have to play significantly better than the other players, even if people consider their skills easy.
I don’t think you’re understanding the point of my thread, just because a class isn’t used in group setups more often than others, doesn’t mean that the class hasn’t got any problems.
Yes celestial is strong, but so are those that aren’t using celestial, a class doesn’t need to be used more over another in Tpvp for it to be obscenely powerful.
This is why I listed the 3 above. It’s not the amulets/runes that make them strong but rather their trait/skill setup.
I agree, to an extent, for example if you stick a D/D ele in a zerk amulet, they’ll dish out obscene amounts of damage, but they’ll also get wrecked by the blast from a guardians shield of wrath alone.
That’s also false. They still maintain 65% or more up time on most boons which most professions cannot rip.
Edit: Like I said, the amulet helps accentuate the problem but the main issue has always been the professions themselves.
DD ele still had all of those boons before the celestial buff and were complete trash tier. They did recieve a few small buffs but no one thought it would make a difference… until they learned of the celestial buff. Can’t just compare things about builds in a vacuum, every class is op in a way.
That was not trash tier, trash tier is warrior back in 2013, when its completely extinction in pvp.
and what do you mean by before, because there was a time before celestial buff when DD eles are completely god tier. you will see two of them in one team just like now but nerfed, because having too much sustain on top of boons.
as they introduce new cele amulet, they also reversed some of the big nerfs (the small buffs you called).
(edited by Simon.3794)
Minion Masters. Blatantly OP, need nerfed.
~ High Warlord Sikai.
What’s OP are builds that can do many jobs at same, and that involve very few risk engaging anything 1v1, and that aren’t especially that hard to play. Usually the kind of builds spamming buffs and condis at same, while running in circle around a point..
Some builds are pretty annoying, i.e LB Ranger, mm necro, turret engi, or sword thief, but they aren’t really OP..
uberkingkong said it perfectly right however, the problem is that full zerker or full bunker builds alternatively aren’t enough efficient. I’m only running full zerker builds actually, and sometimes it’s like noone did even hit me and i still got 15 sec of burning out of nowhere.. Also, there are too many blocks/evades/anti stun in mentionned builds above to make full melee zerkers really useful…
Thing is, why go 100b warrior when you can go power ranger?
100b takes a long time to pull off, easily side stepped and just avoiding it in general due to how slow the damage stacks.
No.
Because you stand still and can’t even turn around to stop channeling.
Without immobilize, it’s useless.
Just curious as to what the community considers to be broken builds.
I don’t mean broken as in not viable, or unplayable, i mean builds that simply have too much damage output for how much effort is invested.
For example, Eviscerate doing 9k+ Damage with one button press, is this balanced? As a medi guardian i have no problems with axe using warriors, it’s easy to tell when the evis is coming, thus making it easy to avoid, and i have a plethora of blocks to also deal with it should i have no evades, If i’m caught without either blocks or evades, then that’s my own fault.
But I’ve seen a lot of complaints on the forums about LB Power rangers, Celestial Engineers & Ele’s, the Celestial warrior build (to an extent, though this isn’t talked about as much i feel).
So, what class is genuinely broken and needs a look at?
Personally i feel shatter mesmers have way too much going on for their shatters, specifically when in the meta shatter spec.
F3 Confuses, Dazes, Grants might, applies 5 stacks of vuln (per shatter), as well as doing pretty high damage, I think it’s a bit too much, but what do the rest of you think?–
–Edit: I am specifically asking about classes that can be too effective for minimal effort, such as 1 or 2 button presses, ranger lb #2, necro elite #1 in a power build etc, these sorts of things.
I said Mesmer f3 because while it involves setting up, it is still only 1 button press and i (This is my opinion, don’t roast me on this) feel it does too much for 1 press.
Ok, you are asking for a skill that is too OP for just 1 button press?
This right here is the most OP 1 button skill ever
Thief’s steal.
MetaBuild 6/0/2/0/6
-Damage, heal yourself, apply poison, apply weakness, recharge utility, regain initiative, daze, steal boons, give stolen boons to allies, give you swiftness, give you might, give you fury, give you vigor
All that for just 1 press of a button. I don’t think anyone can beat that.
And if that wasn’t OP enough for you, you can take it to next level of cheese by pressing it again. You can get one of the following:
-Additional steath plus aoe blind
-Damage plus long duration chill
-Damage plus long duration daze
-Damage plus condition aoe ethereal field
-AOE damage plus reflect
-AOE long duration fear thats better than the necro!
-AOE healing and cleanse and you don’t even have to stand in it to get the pulsing regen
-and best of all; 10 secs of protection, regen, vigor, might, fury, swiftness, and aegis
Lol
(edited by Gabriell.4856)
This right here is the most OP 1 button skill ever
Thief’s steal.
MetaBuild 6/0/2/0/6
-Damage, heal yourself, apply poison, apply weakness, recharge utility, regain initiative, daze, steal boons, give stolen boons to allies, give you swiftness, give you might, give you fury, give you vigorAll that for just 1 press of a button. I don’t think anyone can beat that.
and downed after 3x auto attack from majority of other classes.
10/10 toopnerfnoworquitrofl
This right here is the most OP 1 button skill ever
Thief’s steal.
MetaBuild 6/0/2/0/6
-Damage, heal yourself, apply poison, apply weakness, recharge utility, regain initiative, daze, steal boons, give stolen boons to allies, give you swiftness, give you might, give you fury, give you vigorAll that for just 1 press of a button. I don’t think anyone can beat that.
and downed after 3x auto attack from majority of other classes.
10/10 toopnerfnoworquitrofl
Oh my god, I didn’t know this was the secret to beating thieves. All I have to do is auto attack them 3 times and I win! Thank you so much for this tip. If I ever fight abjured (sp?) it will be 5vs4 in our favor because I can take out Magic instantly. My team is going to be the king of e-sport!
Thank you my friend, thank you.
I’ll be rooting for your team’s success now.
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