Guild Wars 2

Just ask yourself this devs, what do exactly condi bunkers sacrifice to reach that level of dmg?

As a power spec if I want to have enough dmg to down anything before getting killed myself..I need to forsake any kind of toughness, healing power and passive defense traits.

By contrast condi bunkers can slot all defensive options and still deal more dmg than you in the end, how that makes any sense?

On top of that a condi bunker hold the clear advantage in a 1vs1 situations, at this point my suggestion would be to remove wander amulet

Really too much sustain for the dmg…
-A warrior use all his stances+shield and just waltz in any fight stacking condis, easy to play no previous knowledge of the class required
-Condi chrono just cycle blocks to no end

The balance in this game is really off….

So remove an amulet that by your logic, is fine on all classes but OP on warrior and mesmer? No. That is not how you balance.

/delete thread

I like it on my Revenant when I’m not trying Carrion or Sage.
The amulet’s not the problem – the professions using them are.

Wait, what? You want an amulet, which have no healing power or vitality, to be removed, because you think this makes condition build bruisers?

Someone actually thinks that without healing power someone can achieve that? Wow, just wow.

This amulet is actually squishy (like demolisher) and wastes three of the four stats, two of them being the main ones, on dealing condi dmg. Lols.

Wanderer amulet really should not be removed in my opinion. Condi warrior is strong but it is not OP at all. All you need to do is dodge the mace f1 skills when the warr is in berserk mode which has a pretty obvious animation if you are watching for it and then they are on 0 damage until berserk mode is ready again. Wanderer stats do not make warrior too strong.

Mesmer is just as strong on carrion amulet as it is on wanderer (Good but not even close overpowered). The way to play against Mesmer is the same as how you play against warrior- dodge the burst (the shatters) and you should win the fight.

Wanderer amulet itself has only 560 toughness and no vitality so it’s sustain is not fantastic, it has 1050 precision rather than power so direct damage could be much better. The only thing it does really well is condition damage, which is what it should do because it’s a condition amulet.

While wanderer is a good amulet on some classes, there is no real issue with the amulet so it should be kept in game.

Supreme.3164:

Just ask yourself this devs, what do exactly condi bunkers sacrifice to reach that level of dmg?

As a power spec if I want to have enough dmg to down anything before getting killed myself..I need to forsake any kind of toughness, healing power and passive defense traits.

By contrast condi bunkers can slot all defensive options and still deal more dmg than you in the end, how that makes any sense?

On top of that a condi bunker hold the clear advantage in a 1vs1 situations, at this point my suggestion would be to remove wander amulet

Really too much sustain for the dmg…
-A warrior use all his stances+shield and just waltz in any fight stacking condis, easy to play no previous knowledge of the class required
-Condi chrono just cycle blocks to no end

The balance in this game is really off….

The tradeoff of Wanderer or Rabid is HP.

Since they don’t bring HP, low HP class have problem to use that versus other condi users.

The counter to toughness stats, is CONDIES.

I understand that you like POWER build damage and Thougness is a ROCK to your SCISSOR, but… just find PAPER (carrion like stats) to eat them alive.

Btw, wanderer don’t work with low HP classes (guard, thief, ele) and will work better with the high HP one (war, necro).

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Health

Wanderer’s Amulet could be deleted today and virtually impact condition builds none.

Rabid is highly competitive, as is Carrion.

Condition builds are great because of all the power damage-hate that was introduced in the expansion.

Are there even that many condi bunkers? So far the only bunkers in play are DH bunker and Cleric Auramancer kinda. But even cleric auramancer won’t be able to bunker for long if focused properly espically wit warrior in play. Scrappers are more bruisers then bunkers but if played properly then yes they can bunker. Emphasis on on IF.

They’re really but two builds that u can call a proper bunker and that is DH bunker and cleric auramancer. Every other class can be killed in an 1 v 1 duel.

Wanderers is fine. it offers only toughness as sustain. Seems fair really. And is brought to be more in tune with marauders amulet who has only vitality for sustain.

Chaith.8256:

Condition builds are great because of all the power damage-hate that was introduced in the expansion.

Xanctus The Dragonslayer.2318:

Are there even that many condi bunkers?

Not really.
Just condi-bruisers.

He wants to destroy condi builds and easily kill them. Just learn to play guys.
as i know a power rev has far more tankiness, sustain as power damage than condi! Same for scrapper or druid. You talk about the war but actually the power berserk is not bad, high damage with a ton of condi and power defense, exactly the same as condi build! You have a signet with 6 sec of resistance with 20 sec icd, with a rev and a good rune, and trait you can run a 10 sec of resistance with 16 sec icd. Stop complain dude actually power thief plus rev plus war and scrapper are not disgusting in a team.

Condi are powerful because of chill, weakness, blind, cripple etc. The condi damage is less than direct damage! And ig you want a chrono or repaers in power damage, just give them decent build.

Third, in pve and wvw power damage overdominate condi. You have not the time to stack condi that you are already down. So you complain to improve your build but not really objectively.

To play condi, we sacrifice a lot! First we are forced to run condi trait line. In power build you can run all trait lines if you want. For example, illusions which is a mandatory trait lines for condi build can easily be run by a power build. So the build diversity in condi is less important than power.
We can discuss a lot of time of this problem but i have to conclude: why you accept that a berserk can hit you at 11k with one skill in a power build but you dont accept that the same class can also burst you as fast with a condi build? Condi is a way to do damage not a support or whatever.

What the hell is a condi bunker anyway? Condition specs can’t take Mercenary’s anymore. Now they have to take either Carrion, Rabid or Wanderer’s, each of them having only one defensive stat. Vitality is only useful if you have a lot of evades and blocks, like Warriors, Mesmers, Guardians, Revs, maybe even Engis. Toughness means you have no vitality and are then weaker to conditions yourself, plus those amulets don’t have power, so you sacrifice power damage. The only reason they seem like bunkers is because the nature of conditions allow them to play defensively while they tick. With a power build, you can’t use a block while dealing 1-2k dps, but with a condi build, you can because conditions last long and hit hard.

Removing amulets won’t solve any problems. It hasn’t in the past, and won’t in the future. Mercenary’s would’ve been fine if they just nerfed condition damage like it should have been. Conditions will still hit hard if you remove Wanderer’s, just like they still hit hard even after the removal of Mercenary’s.

Amulet’s aren’t the freaking problem! The freaking problem is high damage, long durations and low CDs of conditions. You HAVE to have a condition amulet in the game. If you remove Wanderer’s, everyone will just move to Carrion and Rabid and still do insane damage. If you’re having trouble against someone using Wanderer’s, spec more cleansing. Cleansing completely nullifies the extra 37.33% condition duration. You can remove the condition before the extra duration even becomes relevant.

But you know, I don’t know why I’m even trying to defend Wanderer’s. Anet will just remove it anyway because that’s the laziest “solution”. And then Reapers will just use Rabid instead, with no truly noticeable change against anyone who can cleanse enough.

Zintrothen.1056:

The only reason they seem like bunkers is because the nature of conditions allow them to play defensively while they tick. With a power build, you can’t use a block while dealing 1-2k dps, but with a condi build, you can because conditions last long and hit hard.

I’ve seen this used so many times and I just can’t explain enough how false this is. With a power build, you don’t need to deal 1-2k dps while you block, you already dealt all the damage up front! Direct damage is done all at once, condi damage takes that same damage and deals it over time. Why is this so hard to understand?

The only reason condi reaper beats out power reaper, is because power reaper attacks are slow and predictable and easy to avoid. Same as how power scrapper beats out condi scrapper, condi scrapper’s attacks are all either projectiles or easily avoidable aoe’s, while power scrapper can just jump in melee and hit with hammer.

Damage, whether condi or direct, isn’t just magically applied. You have to be hit by an attack. Builds in this meta work or don’t work based on how effectively they can land their attacks, whether it be condi or power. Builds that are too effective at landing their attacks, dealing high damage (condi or power), and have high sustain, become a problem. To fix this, the damage being applied and/or the sustain of the build has to be addressed.

Condi damage in this game is not a method for slowly bleeding a player out with dots, it is an alternative to power damage. Stop with the bias against condi classes, and fix the real problems.

Shaogin.2679:

Condi damage in this game is not a method for slowly bleeding a player out with dots, it is an alternative to power damage. Stop with the bias against condi classes, and fix the real problems.

Condition damage needs to require 3 stats to actually hit hard then. I need power, precision and ferocity to hit hard while all condi build needs is condi damage and call it a day. Thats without mentioning how condi dmg ignored toughness/other -% reduction stuff. Condi in this game is an aids really. Go make a duel with full soldier anything vs full dire anything and tell me how it went. In any case dire user will destroy the soldier user to small pieces. Whats the difference between the two? Soldier has power which lack any sort of damage unlike dire which just doesnt care. Its a core problem that should have been addressed 3 years ago.

Euthymias.7984:

Xanctus The Dragonslayer.2318:

Are there even that many condi bunkers?

Not really.
Just condi-bruisers.

By that logic Power Berserkers, Scrappers and Heralds would be bruisers as well. Add in palladins’s greatsword druid and u got plenty of bruisers. Only thief and DH are left out really.

Seems to me that with the removal of mercenary. There really shouldn’t be much to complain about.As now both power and condi amulets have an equally distrbuted stat system with either 2 or 3 offensive stats and one stat for sustain. Palladins amulet bieng the execption to sage amulet bieng the execption here.

1.
There are no condition -“bunkers”. Neither a reaper nor a mesmer is a bunker, warrior has indeed too much sustain imo but is still not considered bunker.

2.
Removing wanderers amulet has absolutly 0 impact on the current situation. Reaper and mesmers already use carrion while warrior switches between carrion and rabid.

3.
Saying that condition dmg should need as much offensive stats as marauder/zerk is just super stupid. You wouldn’t see any condition class/ build at all. Just imagine the current mesmer or necro with so much less hp. Not viable at all.

4.
The problem currently is the boon spam and the power damage hate via evades,blocks and invulns which is the reason that there is no any other option than playing condition bruisers.There is a reason you don’t really see any other power class than revenant- and the reason is the powercreep that came with HoT. It has any other powerbuild like thief,shattermesmer or powernecro made unviable and made it just 100 times worse than revenant.
If you want to solve a problem you have to consider the roots of it.

carrion = 1200 condi 900 vit 900 power (sacrifice toughness precision healing)
rabid = 1200 condi 900 precision 900 toughness (sacrifice power vitality healing)
rampager = 1200 precision 900 power 900 condi (sacrifice vitality toughness healing)

viper = 1050 power 1050 condi 560 precision 560 expertise
(sacrifice toughness vitality healing to get some sub-par crit rate and 33% extra condition duration which can be easily removed by condition removals)

sage = 1050 power 1050 condi 560 healing 560 vitality
(sacrifice toughness precision to get some sub-par healing and sub-par vitality)

wanderers = 1050 precision 1050 condi 560 toughness 560 expertise
(sacrifice power vitality to get some sub-par toughness and 33% extra condition duration which can be easily removed by condition removals)

can we have an amulet like this ?
a tankier viper amulet
viper toughness variant = 1050 power 1050 condi 560 precision 560 toughness

or a sage toughness variant
sage toughness variant = 1050 power 1050 condi 560 healing 560 toughness

I’ve been saying this for months:
Nerf all damaging condis durations by x% so people need to spec into expertise instead of toughness.

ok there seems to be a trend going on with the pvp community that players using wanderer amulet are condi bunker? wtf i must been asleep that i didnt realize this? so reaper, chrono, warrior use this amulet? but reaper die so easy unless he has full shroud. with wanderer reaper really only have 19k hp. chrono die as fast if not faster if wasnt for always blocking and evading with sword 2 and shield 4. and also there f4. warrior always go to a fight with endure pain and zerker stance ready, and they run away when its on cooldown. so removing this amulet wont do any good the just move to other condi amulet. i mean 500 extra toughness aint kitten.

akaCryptic.2389:

I’ve been saying this for months:
Nerf all damaging condis durations by x% so people need to spec into expertise instead of toughness.

Im totally ok with this as long as Anet gives then proper condi amulets combinations.

Burtnik.5218:

Shaogin.2679:

Condi damage in this game is not a method for slowly bleeding a player out with dots, it is an alternative to power damage. Stop with the bias against condi classes, and fix the real problems.

Condition damage needs to require 3 stats to actually hit hard then. I need power, precision and ferocity to hit hard while all condi build needs is condi damage and call it a day. Thats without mentioning how condi dmg ignored toughness/other -% reduction stuff. Condi in this game is an aids really. Go make a duel with full soldier anything vs full dire anything and tell me how it went. In any case dire user will destroy the soldier user to small pieces. Whats the difference between the two? Soldier has power which lack any sort of damage unlike dire which just doesnt care. Its a core problem that should have been addressed 3 years ago.

Condi damage need condi power, condi duration AND the time to stack condi OR to restack ir after a disepel. Power build don’t need a lot of time to develop insta burst kill.
So it’s 3 parameters for each way to deal damage. You just want to kill easily condi build dude.

epouvante.7392:

Burtnik.5218:

Shaogin.2679:

Condi damage in this game is not a method for slowly bleeding a player out with dots, it is an alternative to power damage. Stop with the bias against condi classes, and fix the real problems.

Condition damage needs to require 3 stats to actually hit hard then. I need power, precision and ferocity to hit hard while all condi build needs is condi damage and call it a day. Thats without mentioning how condi dmg ignored toughness/other -% reduction stuff. Condi in this game is an aids really. Go make a duel with full soldier anything vs full dire anything and tell me how it went. In any case dire user will destroy the soldier user to small pieces. Whats the difference between the two? Soldier has power which lack any sort of damage unlike dire which just doesnt care. Its a core problem that should have been addressed 3 years ago.

Condi damage need condi power, condi duration AND the time to stack condi OR to restack ir after a disepel. Power build don’t need a lot of time to develop insta burst kill.
So it’s 3 parameters for each way to deal damage. You just want to kill easily condi build dude.

O, really? It needs time?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XlQE9coHRco
3 hits and gg. Seems legit and totally working as intended.

Burtnik.5218:

epouvante.7392:

Burtnik.5218:

Shaogin.2679:

Condi damage in this game is not a method for slowly bleeding a player out with dots, it is an alternative to power damage. Stop with the bias against condi classes, and fix the real problems.

Condition damage needs to require 3 stats to actually hit hard then. I need power, precision and ferocity to hit hard while all condi build needs is condi damage and call it a day. Thats without mentioning how condi dmg ignored toughness/other -% reduction stuff. Condi in this game is an aids really. Go make a duel with full soldier anything vs full dire anything and tell me how it went. In any case dire user will destroy the soldier user to small pieces. Whats the difference between the two? Soldier has power which lack any sort of damage unlike dire which just doesnt care. Its a core problem that should have been addressed 3 years ago.

Condi damage need condi power, condi duration AND the time to stack condi OR to restack ir after a disepel. Power build don’t need a lot of time to develop insta burst kill.
So it’s 3 parameters for each way to deal damage. You just want to kill easily condi build dude.

O, really? It needs time?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XlQE9coHRco
3 hits and gg. Seems legit and totally working as intended.

Waow this example is so representative. A thief that walk in all revenant zone, with 0 cleanse and i imagine 0 vitality. Same example with a zerk war 2hit and the thief dead.

epouvante.7392:

Burtnik.5218:

epouvante.7392:

Burtnik.5218:

Shaogin.2679:

Condi damage in this game is not a method for slowly bleeding a player out with dots, it is an alternative to power damage. Stop with the bias against condi classes, and fix the real problems.

Condition damage needs to require 3 stats to actually hit hard then. I need power, precision and ferocity to hit hard while all condi build needs is condi damage and call it a day. Thats without mentioning how condi dmg ignored toughness/other -% reduction stuff. Condi in this game is an aids really. Go make a duel with full soldier anything vs full dire anything and tell me how it went. In any case dire user will destroy the soldier user to small pieces. Whats the difference between the two? Soldier has power which lack any sort of damage unlike dire which just doesnt care. Its a core problem that should have been addressed 3 years ago.

Condi damage need condi power, condi duration AND the time to stack condi OR to restack ir after a disepel. Power build don’t need a lot of time to develop insta burst kill.
So it’s 3 parameters for each way to deal damage. You just want to kill easily condi build dude.

O, really? It needs time?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XlQE9coHRco
3 hits and gg. Seems legit and totally working as intended.

Waow this example is so representative. A thief that walk in all revenant zone, with 0 cleanse and i imagine 0 vitality. Same example with a zerk war 2hit and the thief dead.

You understand something as DoT, damage over time? Its not supposed to be as bursty as power damage yet it is what it is. Thats why it need require 3 stats to hit as hard as power builds otherwise the damage has to be nerfed hard.

Burtnik.5218:

epouvante.7392:

Burtnik.5218:

epouvante.7392:

Burtnik.5218:

Shaogin.2679:

Condi damage in this game is not a method for slowly bleeding a player out with dots, it is an alternative to power damage. Stop with the bias against condi classes, and fix the real problems.

Condition damage needs to require 3 stats to actually hit hard then. I need power, precision and ferocity to hit hard while all condi build needs is condi damage and call it a day. Thats without mentioning how condi dmg ignored toughness/other -% reduction stuff. Condi in this game is an aids really. Go make a duel with full soldier anything vs full dire anything and tell me how it went. In any case dire user will destroy the soldier user to small pieces. Whats the difference between the two? Soldier has power which lack any sort of damage unlike dire which just doesnt care. Its a core problem that should have been addressed 3 years ago.

Condi damage need condi power, condi duration AND the time to stack condi OR to restack ir after a disepel. Power build don’t need a lot of time to develop insta burst kill.
So it’s 3 parameters for each way to deal damage. You just want to kill easily condi build dude.

O, really? It needs time?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XlQE9coHRco
3 hits and gg. Seems legit and totally working as intended.

Waow this example is so representative. A thief that walk in all revenant zone, with 0 cleanse and i imagine 0 vitality. Same example with a zerk war 2hit and the thief dead.

You understand something as DoT, damage over time? Its not supposed to be as bursty as power damage yet it is what it is. Thats why it need require 3 stats to hit as hard as power builds otherwise the damage has to be nerfed hard.

His point still stand though..if this same thief was attacked by a power character his death would have been near instant instead of taking a whole 8 seconds.

@Burtnik

It’s obviously you who doesn’t seem to understand.
The advantage of power damage is that it is caused way faster than condition damage.
A skill that takes away 10k in 2 seconds is “stronger” than a skill that takes away 10k in 5 seconds. You have a longer time frame to get heal from your allies and you have the opportunity to cleanse conditions which does not exist for power damage.

Saying that condition builds should not have any defensive stats to be on pair with marauder or berserker damage-wise, just proves how limited your comprehension of the balance is. Same to your knowledge of the current builds with reference to their viability. Neither a reaper nor a mesmer would be ever viable if they would miss those vitality- or toughness-stats or would simply deal way less damage.

The reason condition builds are so great at the moment is boon inflation and the power damage hate ( revenant + scrapper for example) which makes so many power builds just unviable. Solve the problems by cutting the roots and stop creating problems where actually aren’t any.

Supreme.3164:

Just ask yourself this devs, what do exactly condi bunkers sacrifice to reach that level of dmg?

(…)

More dmg, more often condi dmg. Depends on if you go for “bunker” traits or via amulet.

What they sacrifice is the skin integrity of thier foreheads.

Sigmoid.7082:

Burtnik.5218:

epouvante.7392:

Burtnik.5218:

epouvante.7392:

Burtnik.5218:

Shaogin.2679:

Condi damage in this game is not a method for slowly bleeding a player out with dots, it is an alternative to power damage. Stop with the bias against condi classes, and fix the real problems.

Condition damage needs to require 3 stats to actually hit hard then. I need power, precision and ferocity to hit hard while all condi build needs is condi damage and call it a day. Thats without mentioning how condi dmg ignored toughness/other -% reduction stuff. Condi in this game is an aids really. Go make a duel with full soldier anything vs full dire anything and tell me how it went. In any case dire user will destroy the soldier user to small pieces. Whats the difference between the two? Soldier has power which lack any sort of damage unlike dire which just doesnt care. Its a core problem that should have been addressed 3 years ago.

Condi damage need condi power, condi duration AND the time to stack condi OR to restack ir after a disepel. Power build don’t need a lot of time to develop insta burst kill.
So it’s 3 parameters for each way to deal damage. You just want to kill easily condi build dude.

O, really? It needs time?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XlQE9coHRco
3 hits and gg. Seems legit and totally working as intended.

Waow this example is so representative. A thief that walk in all revenant zone, with 0 cleanse and i imagine 0 vitality. Same example with a zerk war 2hit and the thief dead.

You understand something as DoT, damage over time? Its not supposed to be as bursty as power damage yet it is what it is. Thats why it need require 3 stats to hit as hard as power builds otherwise the damage has to be nerfed hard.

His point still stand though..if this same thief was attacked by a power character his death would have been near instant instead of taking a whole 8 seconds.

Thanks.

They sacifice there mental prowless.

you guy’s want a winning condition strat. it’s pretty complicated boys dunno if you can handle it.

Options: set snap to target. Profit. i know you need a degree to figure that out…

i’m pretty sure you could pick lint out of your toe’s and it would involve more skill then a condition build. at least that requires some dexterity.

….as a condi, I can do around 400k total(direct+condi) damage usually. In most power builds I can get around 700k damage. And I win more with condi builds. Not sure if that’s pro or con, just saying.