Guild Wars 2

Ashamed to post this but also don’t really care,
A good portion of my games involves someone sending “team can’t rotate” or “l2rotate” or “nice rotating” without ever really specifying what it means.
As far as I understand it means kinda, moving around points to avoid groups of players, but I never really know where/when to rotate? So some clarity would be welcome

“To rotate” is the verb used to define moving from one cap point to another.

I.E.: You’re mid and you need/are expected to go close → “rotate close”.

It’s not however used to avoid group of players, it’s used in order to try to take an advantage on an enemy team, for example if you have 2 bunkers/bruisers on mid facing 3 enemies, another teammate fighting far and the last one fighting close, you may “rotate” to far or close in order to get the +1 needed and secure that point.

rotate can be complicated yet simple if you are experienced in RTS games.

generally, it involve having awareness of your map, your teammates’ positions, your enemies’ positions, your enemies’ compositions, your team’s compositions, your team vs enemy skill gap degree and finally the different classes’ roles…..

moving in a way that capable of supporting or help your team and breaking enemy flow

Rotation Means Map awareness and movement. Being at the right place at the right time It Also has to do with knowing your build and the builds of the people you are with. There are 3 points on a map, make sure you are at one where you can do something useful

2 Main things to remember though

1. Never stand on a point where nothing is happening. Always Keep moving. Check the mini map, see where the fights are, help the one you can get to or “rotate” / move to one of their points and decap it. Never “Bunker Home” the Entire fight. if they never come home then your team outnumbered everywhere else

2. Never “rotate” Into a fight you’ve already lost, unless you are the God of PvP. One of the most common mistakes people make is running back to a teamfight alone, and getting killed alone. Charging back in to die doesnt help anyone and will NOT help you win.

Mini Map awareness is HUGE, you can see icons, colours, classes and downed people. Know where to be to maximize the effect of your class and build. For instance i play Bunker Druid. I make sure I rotate to team fights that need help. I dont run into fights with more then 1 downed or where we are heavily outnumbered. General rule is 3v1’s or 4v2’s. I dont rotate to far alone. Leave that to thieves/ mesmers.

Know what you can take, what you can win a 1v1 against. if you cant win dont even try just back off and help elsewhere. Bunker Druid has Low DPS so if i go through a full rotation of my skills and they are not dead then i leave. I could probably kill them but it will take too long, I could be helping out more somewhere else.

Know where home is, far, and mid, know the best routes to take to get to them

Never run into an outnumbered fight solo.

Belarorn.9062:

2. Never “rotate” Into a fight you’ve already lost, unless you are the God of PvP.

Of course, if you ARE the God of PvP, you wouldn’t have lost in the first place.

Belarorn.9062:

Never run into an outnumbered fight solo.

+1 : But slightly enhanced:

    good_guys = you + teammates_with_you + teammates_alive_at_fight

    if ( god_of_pvp ) then

        carry on you supreme being you;

    else if (  good_guys  less than bad_guys ) then

        move on to plan B;

NACotser.4125:

Ashamed to post this but also don’t really care,
A good portion of my games involves someone sending “team can’t rotate” or “l2rotate” or “nice rotating” without ever really specifying what it means.
As far as I understand it means kinda, moving around points to avoid groups of players, but I never really know where/when to rotate? So some clarity would be welcome

I posted the below in another thread. There’s a video someone made about rotations but maybe more may be useful as well.

Ayrilana.1396:

I watched these this morning. Players new to PvP may find some things useful. Perhaps understanding these will improve what we experience with matchmaking.

Conquest Mode Basics
Map Mechanics Explanations
Downstate Skills
Map Awareness / Map Vision
Mindset and Frustration – Not really a guide but something I suggest people view.
Rotation
Kiting
Positioning
Juking
Countering Safestomps
Crowd Control
Using Environment to your Advantage

NACotser.4125:

Ashamed to post this but also don’t really care,
A good portion of my games involves someone sending “team can’t rotate” or “l2rotate” or “nice rotating” without ever really specifying what it means.
As far as I understand it means kinda, moving around points to avoid groups of players, but I never really know where/when to rotate? So some clarity would be welcome

basically knowing where u should be or you’re team should be at the map in a given time. this require knowing your opponent position, team position and predicting enemy movement as well as team. example. spawning enemy or team mate. if enemy team is in your home point what would u think u should do? your team should always be looking for weak and undefended point in the map. moving away from fights that is hard to win. knowing when to engage or disengage. when to decap or full cap. etc.

Might be a good idea if one of the experienced players posted a thread regarding pvp terminology along with tips/strategies used. I’m still new to pvp with only around 140 games played but i can tell u i still don’t know where the repair kit for the trebs on kyhlo are lol

generaly Rotation is everything under the sun and learning that comes with Experience
look up a guy on youtube called QQmore.net https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC0IC9msN2_P6yn9zv2G6JOg he has many pvp videos which are very useful to beginners and after that its just putting that knowledge into practice.

the biggest tip i can suggest is don’t go right away for the boss on forest of niflhel leave that to the home guy .

if you are running damage , say i’ll go to home first cap that then kill the boss when it spawns but only if .
1. Mid is winning (check the team health bars)
2. no foe is trying to contest your home
3. don’t go for a boss if you are 1 cap vs 2 and loosing a mid fight ?(never go for boss in this situation because its a massive risk if the team fails mid , it turns into a 3 cap and they could steal the boss from you meaning Lots if lost ground and points) for this its better to go far or support+1 mid or recap home (if you are running a Damage spec the bunker and fighter at mid should be able to hold ground)
4. continue from point 3 , if you died in mid but it was a winning fight go right back to mid and target the support pressure him but don’t kill and push it off the cap split up the foe team , then force the fight massively into your favour .

5. most important do not Go for boss kills on a support/bunker spec and if you can’t handle to boss in a damage spec not as glassy don’t go for boss you’ll just risk points/caps and time , so just try to steal bosses instead let the foe do the work but keep a eye out for it.
6 the Boss stealing is more suited for a Roaming spec as its easier to travel / reach the bosses in time or not be seen hence why thiefs/mesmers/ranger/druid or DH would be more suited for boss steals but maybe kills if they kill fast, as you’d want to head for the nearest point after you’ll also need to be able to fight 1vs2’s and atleast delay or decap

(important part here " I didn’t say kill " the idea to delay and decap is to wait for a +1 to help on home or far if the fight is loosing don’t stay Kite/run away to a better node, if your playing a slow class or non-stealth class like DH/warroir/Rev/reaper stay and fight keep the point contested even if it means death but be sure before you make a smart choice using this Tactic as soon as you commit to the action , you won’t be in a postion to repostion fast enough to recover lost nodes like home because you are at far ect)

as soon as the fight is in your favour run back to home to recap but don’t go far , those at mid will deal with far then regroup or bunker home(if bunker) keeping a 2vs1 cap on map is more important than trying for 3 caps.

these tips are also knowledge of rotations.

I’ve always thought that “Rotation” was a bad term for GW2 conquest.

When someone says “learn to rotate” “please rotate” they are essentially saying: Learn how to be in the most advantageous positioning possible for our team, at all times and learn to do it quickly.

Needless to say, there is too much to explain about proper “Rotations” in this thread but you get the idea.

Belarorn.9062:

Rotation Means Map awareness and movement. Being at the right place at the right time It Also has to do with knowing your build and the builds of the people you are with. There are 3 points on a map, make sure you are at one where you can do something useful

2 Main things to remember though

1. Never stand on a point where nothing is happening. Always Keep moving. Check the mini map, see where the fights are, help the one you can get to or “rotate” / move to one of their points and decap it. Never “Bunker Home” the Entire fight. if they never come home then your team outnumbered everywhere else

2. Never “rotate” Into a fight you’ve already lost, unless you are the God of PvP. One of the most common mistakes people make is running back to a teamfight alone, and getting killed alone. Charging back in to die doesnt help anyone and will NOT help you win.

Mini Map awareness is HUGE, you can see icons, colours, classes and downed people. Know where to be to maximize the effect of your class and build. For instance i play Bunker Druid. I make sure I rotate to team fights that need help. I dont run into fights with more then 1 downed or where we are heavily outnumbered. General rule is 3v1’s or 4v2’s. I dont rotate to far alone. Leave that to thieves/ mesmers.

Know what you can take, what you can win a 1v1 against. if you cant win dont even try just back off and help elsewhere. Bunker Druid has Low DPS so if i go through a full rotation of my skills and they are not dead then i leave. I could probably kill them but it will take too long, I could be helping out more somewhere else.

Know where home is, far, and mid, know the best routes to take to get to them

Never run into an outnumbered fight solo.

+1

Srsly these few hints, If well done, could improve the quality of the every game like 1000%

Anet should introduce a reminder like this during the 2 min countdown at beginning.

Every kitten time

Trevor Boyer.6524:

I’ve always thought that “Rotation” was a bad term for GW2 conquest.

When someone says “learn to rotate” “please rotate” they are essentially saying: Learn how to be in the most advantageous positioning possible for our team, at all times and learn to do it quickly.

Needless to say, there is too much to explain about proper “Rotations” in this thread but you get the idea.

ya to rotate is to be better pretty much , if a players a good fighter and a poor rotator i’d focus on what your good at rather than making big plays by going far ect but that also gets better with experience, which is easier if a play focuses on what he is good at.

Trevor Boyer.6524:

I’ve always thought that “Rotation” was a bad term for GW2 conquest.

When someone says “learn to rotate” “please rotate” they are essentially saying: Learn how to be in the most advantageous positioning possible for our team, at all times and learn to do it quickly.

Needless to say, there is too much to explain about proper “Rotations” in this thread but you get the idea.

Not really, no.

Now hear me out first before getting all up in arms about it.

L2rotate means pretty much knowing the build one is running, using that build to its fullest potential and keeping the minimap in view.
Everything else about “rotations” follows out of those three principals.

For example… reaper atm.
Reaper is a teamfighter. But reaper is slow. If your team plays sides because they lost midfight, you glance at minimap, at party overview and you see the following situation.
Close is being held by one DH against a mesmer and ranger, that DH slowly looses health. Far is being contested by three of your team vs. two of enemy team.
Now, you are a teamfighter… but… before you can get to far, that fight is probably over – either way. Whereas you can easily reach home, nuke from the sides and decide that fight. After home is cleared, you can rotate towards mid, but do not engage immediately.
Why?
Because you might have to run for far if your teammates dont move their kitten to mid also.

I picked this scenario for a reason. It should be pretty clear cut imo, but I see so many reapers running for far after respawn because thats where the teamfight is…. or running mid “because only one is defending it”. Loosing home, not contesting mid and freeing up two enemy roamers to run and decide that far fight.

Thats the moment I type “l2rotate”.

Nobody expects big pro-league rotations in soloqueue. But if you keep those three principals in mind:
- Know your build
- Watch minimap
- Watch party overview
You will get so much better at rotations.

Another example.. especially often seen on legacy.
Respawners all run over close to mid, even though close is being defended by a dh with full health against a mesmer. Makes absolutely no sense to run via close to mid, maybe even stopping and using cooldowns there, and wasting valuable time on it.

And here’s something “advanced”.
If you glance at your party menu… and you see 3 people dead. Why wouldnt you wait and gather to then run into that midfight and make it a 4v4 instead of a 4v1 four times?

You see, its nothing complicated. It really is quite simple IF you start using your brain instead of tunnelvisioning your way through each map.

Rotations are overrated. They only get you so far when you actually meet with equally skilled team (I know, I know, it’s like winning the lottery in the current matchmaking).

And Foefire is actually hard to rotate if the enemy team has tough sustain and captures and holds home/mid nodes and doesn’t go the extra length to push at far unless it isn’t guarded. Otherwise they just get on teh hill and control the field. It’s really hard to comeback into it. It requires more than rotation. It requires good teamfighting.

But yeah … having druid/ele bunkering a point is cancer. It takes around 2 minutes to take one of them down, if at all, in a fair fight. Now if you so choose to blob that point … your teammates will be outnumbered somewhere else and will be shot down long before you could decap the said point. Even if you kill one of the bunkers the other one will live for at least 20 seconds more. Good enough time for the other guy to respawn and come back to contest the point long enough for backup to arrive. At that point you’d lose the fight and the point. And it just so happens that it will cost you the game.

Sustain is still pretty much the king of the hill in Gw2’s sPvP.

And we haven’t even spoken about the so called “hardcounters” to specific builds who can COMPLETELY shut you down (thanks balance team!) without breaking a sweat.

Like … the best revenant could do against condi mes is a stalemate….for a minute or so. And don’t you kitten off that mesmer because you’ll eat a moa and instadie. Why would a lone rev break up from a fight to go and defend a node against such when they have no chance whatsoever.

Yeah you’ll probably say that it’s better idea to send the power hammer to deal with the mesmer, but again, the mesmer can stand their ground against engi with ease. It’s not typical hardcounter but they can and most times DO need multiple members to be dealt with.

P.S: No, I’m not kitten by a mesmer, I myself play a mesmer. Just giving a vivid example of hardcounters. Kinda like scrapper vs DH (complete and utter shutdown)

Rotate simply put is strategical movement around the map. Some fights are not winnable, some fights are easily winnable with less people on point, sometimes you have to abandon team fight to steal animal or go for lord. With proper rotation you can win games even if your team loses every big team fight (have done it many many times).

The problem with good rotations – it takes A LOT of experience in pvp. Every situation requires different action. There are lot of variables that affect decisions as well, e.g. classes your team has, classes your enemy has, how good players are, gimmicky spells that can turn game (sup portal, moa), animal is being killed, lord is being killed, someone using treb, how many enemies are on respawn etc.

I would say probably best way to learn proper rotations is to play thief, it is their main job to rotate around the map fast and be so to say everywhere. The class is so risky and unrewarding that 1 bad rotation, 1 bad mistake can cost you a match. It forces you to look at the map every few sec, count enemies, count classes, judge your and enemy team skill etc. I don’t think there is really simple guide to it. I think if someone did write it it would be easily 300 (if not more) pages book.

If you really want to learn how to rotate properly you probably need to
- play A LOT of matches (even after 5k matches and tourney experience i still make mistakes)
- record your matches and look what you could have done better as far moving around the map goes, where you would be most effective
- watch pro league, watch how they support each other, abuse enemy team weakness etc.
- try to get on a team with ts, you will learn A LOT by playing with them

Here’s a qt match I played, talking about rotations and the obvious effect that they have on the game as it’s being played.

Enjoy: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H9RXFUNaOxw

Generally the goal is to always have your team in favorable fights, and their position allow them to transition into another favorable position.

Good rotations takes profession and build into account. Sometimes leaving 1 player on mid/far to fight two enemy players sounds like bad rotations, but if that player is fighting two (and surviving) then the rest of the map is in your favor. So instead of helping that player win/end the fight, you would focus on the rest of the map and secure the favorable position.

It is all very complicated, and best explored by playing, but you just need to realize, if you fought a battle and it went bad, why did it go bad? Where could you have been to further your teams victory? Was being part of that fight helpful? When you spawn (the most critical time for rotations), where do you go? You want to head somewhere you can make a difference, either by weakening your opponents rotations, winning fights, holding a point, etc.

Good luck, and the most important things for rotating well are to watch the map, and understand the game (classes, builds, timers, objectives, etc.).

rotation means u look for right oponnent to duel and kill him. F.ex if u staff thief u look to duel necro on point beocuse staff thief always wins vs necro. another example: u see one opnennt incoming but u know u ll lose duel so u run away to another point to favorable duel. (decap role not considered)