Guild Wars 2

The base game is less fun then it was in beta, the number of fun skills and viable builds were taken away, with almost nothing to compensate it.

Trying to “balance” the game has effectively killed it, you’ve taken away several viable builds from every class, almost ensuring everyone except a few classes has one meta, although this may be easier to “balance” it makes the game very un-fun, this game is more skill-based then most MMOs out there since you can’t stand and just face tank everything with heals.

You need to unnerf everything you nerfed ‘because’ of quickness. You need to bring back up to par several abilities you nerfed before because of quickness, this includes thief unload/pistol whip, ranger shortbow, and quite a lot of other abilities, these were never overpowered but combined with quickness they were.

You need to “fix” under-powered and underused traits and make every trait as strong as the next either by adding stats to the traits that seem utter fail or making them worth there weight in salt, nobody should be OR feel punished by trying to make an underprepared undermetaed build. This may lead to unbalanceness, however “THAT” is fun to some people, DO not balance based off class, balance based on a classes strengths instead, don’t try to compare classes to eachother, that is what kills the game.

You need to bring back some abilities range and add more viable builds to every class.
1 Every class needs a support role. (Viable, NON-suck.)
2 Every class needs to be able to bunker some how. (Healing/Damage Reduction.)
3 Every class needs viable utility and ways to improve that utility. (Thief Traps…)
4 Every class should have unique and viable class combinations, I would really rework the trees so we can customize our 5/15/25 traits as well as the others, some of them are trash to certain builds and this is just not fair to the ones playing.

There is no point to leader boards or anything if this game isn’t fun to play, and each patch you seem to be making it less fun.

I know you dislike “wack a mole balance.” but some of your “nerfs” have been such things like “-50% damage” with no viable buffs to compensate, that is quite significant for a delicate approach, and you’ve been doing this for a long time. This game will never be balanced because of its skill-cap and you really have to accept that fact and let the players have fun, however the lack of ways to make one “there spec.” is what is making the game boring, and I hope soon you add-fix-redo all the old underused traits/weapons/skills.

One of the reasons for most significant nerfs is your catering too much to the minorities. Most of your changes cater to the “best players” and the “worst players” this is sad, because most of the people who play guild wars are actually the casual players. They could care split if something is a little unbalanced, and they will adapt to it instead of losing to it. In several videos I see the “best players” saying they see the same person dieing to something over and over, this is what I call the “worst player” minority, i’m sorry but they are lambs that deserve that death until they learn how to deal with it. They could learn by asking for help from other players and they will learn to play better by adapting.

Rebalancing the game for the minority will kill it, that is how and why most games today are dieing, they do changes without asking the majority of players what they want.

“Whack-a-Mole” is a pretty accurate statement of what they’ve been doing thus-far.
At least from Thief PoV.
In order:
Unload, VShare, Pistolwhip, TacticalStrike(Daze/CC build) + Dagger Offhand, Pistolwhip and Unload again (via quickness)+ Condi+ Another dagger offhand nerf via 4sec reveal.
Mind you, most of these have been 33-50% nerfs, rendering the builds unviable especially in a competitive setting.

At this point either you play D/P burst because it’s the only thing untouched or you reroll ele.

Jumper.9482:

“Whack-a-Mole” is a pretty accurate statement of what they’ve been doing thus-far.
At least from Thief PoV.
In order:
Unload, VShare, Pistolwhip, TacticalStrike(Daze/CC build) + Dagger Offhand, Pistolwhip and Unload again (via quickness)+ Condi+ Another dagger offhand nerf via 4sec reveal.
Mind you, most of these have been 33-50% nerfs, rendering the builds unviable especially in a competitive setting.

QFT.

+1
i was a rank 26 warrior.. now im just playing pve. Been playing since beta and since Beta the ele d/d was top #1. Now with the quickness burst.. how you can kill one?! PvP is all about bunker class now. Warrior have nothing left.
ESport? i lol’d. how can this game be an ESport.. we get a “balance” update each MONTH wich never balance thing but instead Destroy build that people spend time to make. PvP is lacking diversity and challenge. All they had to do since beta is to OP some build instead of starting to nerf everything. Lets see what will happen next month. We really need class balance change weekly.

STOP THE NERF, START TO OP.

I half expected this post to be about leaderboards and e-sports. Foolish of me.

Esports and GW2, really phanta, that boat sunk 6 months ago.

I dont think all classes should be able to play all roles.

Rerroll.9083:

I dont think all classes should be able to play all roles.

Go tell this to eles.

Anyway, this is not the point OP is trying to make.

The point is that the game is not fun when you nerf everything and leave only 1 viable build/playstyle per class while not caring about rehauling all these crap traits/U-skills-weapon sets you put in the first place.

If they wanted to leave thief traps/ranger spirits/turrets etc etc and such not viable , WHY PUTTING THEM IN THE FIRST PLACE ?

This game is becoming boring, it’s been out for 7 moths and the meta has been stale for 3-4 months with no actual change.

Instead, it’s only worsening, balance has never been so off till now.

Rerroll.9083:

I dont think all classes should be able to play all roles.

All classes shouldnt be able to play all roles.. but they should have at least more than 1 build diversity and be able to play more than 1 role.

Somehow the game was way more fun before that patch.. now its all about condition for damage and bunker. Warrior is dead. ELE still at the top since beta. Only 3 class left with “burst” damage. ELE, Mesmer and thief. Mesmer have almost no condition removal so their surviability got hurt. Thief rely on stealth to get condition removal wich is not so good right now. So yeah, All about bunker and conditions. Will peoples wait a whole month to see some change?? i doubt it.

the point of esport and leaderboard, as the title ask, is here just for the internet kitten or e-kitten. wow omg i am on ladder u suck im god. kneel to me gg no re.
shame is this game needed it 6-7 months ago.

im trying new game free to play, every one is closed or open beta, and u know? they have more esport potential than gw2 in release buy to play etc etc.

btw as a only tpvp player i can say u this thing: i watched some gw2 stream and i think that wvwvw is more enjoyable to watch than tpvp, even if pro stream.
cya on smite

Shukran.4851:

the point of esport and leaderboard, as the title ask, is here just for the internet kitten or e-kitten. wow omg i am on ladder u suck im god. kneel to me gg no re.
shame is this game needed it 6-7 months ago.

im trying new game free to play, every one is closed or open beta, and u know? they have more esport potential than gw2 in release buy to play etc etc.

btw as a only tpvp player i can say u this thing: i watched some gw2 stream and i think that wvwvw is more enjoyable to watch than tpvp, even if pro stream.
cya on smite

Smite has sooo many characters and so many metas compared to GW2. Can’t even compare the games.

If GW2 had more customization and everything wasn’t nerfed to uselessness every month, this would be a rather healthy game.

Each month, the devs TAKE away something without adding anything new OR filling the hole…

Daecollo.9578:

Each month, the devs TAKE away something without adding anything new OR filling the hole…

^exactly that. Seem like there is a whole team that work to nerf everything and nobody to improve.
But there is a big team that work on quaquaan /charr back pack and cavalier outfit?!

Jumper.9482:

“Whack-a-Mole” is a pretty accurate statement of what they’ve been doing thus-far.
At least from Thief PoV.
In order:
Unload, VShare, Pistolwhip, TacticalStrike(Daze/CC build) + Dagger Offhand, Pistolwhip and Unload again (via quickness)+ Condi+ Another dagger offhand nerf via 4sec reveal.
Mind you, most of these have been 33-50% nerfs, rendering the builds unviable especially in a competitive setting.

At this point either you play D/P burst because it’s the only thing untouched or you reroll ele.

+1

my thought exactly!

All professions should be able to fill multiple roles (not all roles) but they ALL should have something that semperates them from the others, something that only they can do or at least to better than any other.

Thief was suppose to be the one with high burst, high mobility and evasiveness.

Clearly other professions beet Thieves in all the above aspects specially Elementalists that beat us on ALL of them but even if they didn’t there are still other professions that beat us on the aspects i just mention. Like Rangers and Mesmer evasiveness and mobility and as for burst also Mesmers and GC Guardians and Warriors, this last one is at the bottom of the foodchain atm but can still dish out loads of dmg.

Volrath.1473:

Jumper.9482:

“Whack-a-Mole” is a pretty accurate statement of what they’ve been doing thus-far.
At least from Thief PoV.
In order:
Unload, VShare, Pistolwhip, TacticalStrike(Daze/CC build) + Dagger Offhand, Pistolwhip and Unload again (via quickness)+ Condi+ Another dagger offhand nerf via 4sec reveal.
Mind you, most of these have been 33-50% nerfs, rendering the builds unviable especially in a competitive setting.

At this point either you play D/P burst because it’s the only thing untouched or you reroll ele.

+1

my thought exactly!

All professions should be able to fill multiple roles (not all roles) but they ALL should have something that semperates them from the others, something that only they can do or at least to better than any other.

Thief was suppose to be the one with high burst, high mobility and evasiveness.

Clearly other professions beet Thieves in all the above aspects specially Elementalists that beat us on ALL of them but even if they didn’t there are still other professions that beat us on the aspects i just mention. Like Rangers and Mesmer evasiveness and mobility and as for burst also Mesmers and GC Guardians and Warriors, this last one is at the bottom of the foodchain atm but can still dish out loads of dmg.

Elementalist isn’t OP I don’t think, it just has FUN options to it that every other class needs, and IT needs a Sustained Damage option too, that is what it kind of lacks, the ability to play just one attunement and be fine.

I never thought the Ele was ever OP, I just think its more “complete” then the other classes in what it can and can’t do.

eXPro.5681:

Daecollo.9578:

Each month, the devs TAKE away something without adding anything new OR filling the hole…

^exactly that. Seem like there is a whole team that work to nerf everything and nobody to improve.
But there is a big team that work on quaquaan /charr back pack and cavalier outfit?!

Exactly what I was wondering. And now this arcade machine of some sort or whatever that stuff is. I hope it’s an april fools joke. I really hope so. Adding pointless things instead of improving pvp which really needs improvements and new stuff can’t be excused.

the quickness nerf was a step into the right direction.
now they can actually start to balance stuff – it has to get worse before it gets better.

Battosai.5620:

the quickness nerf was a step into the right direction.
now they can actually start to balance stuff – it has to get worse before it gets better.

sure but u can’t expect we can wait a month for the second part of the sentence when the first one was a 7 months pain.

It’s impossible to achieve balance. It doesn’t matter how many times the meta is adjusted, some class builds will always be overpowered.

Most PVP games address this by adding new characters, and limiting each team so that two players on the same team cannot use the same character. Everyone has played games where the most powerful characters are the initial characters, but this does not spoil gameplay because each time a new character is introduced it creates new opportunities for synergy with the existing characters.

Unfortunately GW2 cannot introduce new characters, because arenanet are committed to using the same class/skill/trait system to PVE and PVP. This is why GW2 has fallen so far behind its PVP rivals.

well it was always a problem – why they’re addressing this issue just now might be a little late, but nevertheless the right thing to do.
given this i think it’s going to take at least one more month as they try to avoid major changes – if they would make a full split between pve and tpvp f.e. it would get easier again to balance things out.
them saying that they don’t want to create different feels and to make it easier to jump from pve into tpvp and the other way round might sound good, but it is just a shallow reason imo that makes their lifes just that much harder.
but at least they start to move into the right direction – that’s something!

Why people keep telling, that they quit pvp because of no balance and “viable builds”?

I honestly believe, that we can call it a non-GW1 player.

Here is the thing. In all MMOs(which ive played and seen) in order to do pvp you need to level up first, which would take you about..500-700 hrs. Then you should gear up, this will take pretty much the same amount of time. In the end you are decent lets say.. warrior! After a while u go to arena 2v2 and die by every druid+smth set up and can do nothing about it, cuz you ve spent over 1000hrs alrdy and there s no garantee, that you will be able to kill stuff, if u switch to that class.

But its freaking GW2, not WoW or any other MMOrpg! You can create a character and make a build, which is suitable for you within 20 mins.

Again, it depends on the aim of the player. If you want to have fun with your uberproGSslashBANNERslash2xMACE warrior, then its ok, keep crying. But if you want to win tourneys, be good at spvp, then swallow the fact, that warriors suck, log out and create the freaking ele.

Dinster.7063:

Why people keep telling, that they quit pvp because of no balance and “viable builds”?

I honestly believe, that we can call it a non-GW1 player.

Here is the thing. In all MMOs(which ive played and seen) in order to do pvp you need to level up first, which would take you about..500-700 hrs. Then you should gear up, this will take pretty much the same amount of time. In the end you are decent lets say.. warrior! After a while u go to arena 2v2 and die by every druid+smth set up and can do nothing about it, cuz you ve spent over 1000hrs alrdy and there s no garantee, that you will be able to kill stuff, if u switch to that class.

But its freaking GW2, not WoW or any other MMOrpg! You can create a character and make a build, which is suitable for you within 20 mins.

Again, it depends on the aim of the player. If you want to have fun with your uberproGSslashBANNERslash2xMACE warrior, then its ok, keep crying. But if you want to win tourneys, be good at spvp, then swallow the fact, that warriors suck, log out and create the freaking ele.

even if you are right, post like yours are the best way to point out what is wrong with gw2. every other mmoprog around is gear based, so it is difficult to compare with gw2. even mobas are too far from gw2 atm to compare them too.
fact is gw2 is not rdy to be nothing more than a pve game with wvwvw ..and some kind of pvp.
gw2 is an open beta! welcome to 1st of april community!!!

You could also look at it this way: with the absence of paid tourneys, and I’d imagine the profit from glory boosters being around $0, how does a development team justify to their superiors tweaking an aspect of the game that doesn’t make anything?

This last patch was to give our more softcore brethren a flavour of spvp, and from what I gathered it worked.

They will probably focus more on actual spvp players with the release of custom lobbies etc, because bringing players back to try out new features/balance/meta will maximise exposure to the gem store (to which custom lobbies will be heavily linked).

Lets face it, what do other successful mmo companies like SOE and blizzard have in common? They’re very good at making money off players. And are arguably quite evil.

Rerroll.9083:

I dont think all classes should be able to play all roles.

ofc they should be, whole game concept is based on it… no holy trinity, every profession can fullfill every role…

and specifically ele with his average dmg, low armor and low health is supposed to be jack of all trades… this doesnt mean nothing about ele needs a balance, just talking about overall concept

anyway, i agree with rethinking of some skills which were nerfed mainly due to quickness, some of them could get some buff probably, thats big truth in this topic

Dinster.7063:

Why people keep telling, that they quit pvp because of no balance and “viable builds”?

I honestly believe, that we can call it a non-GW1 player.

Horse crap.
If people aren’t enjoying themselves they’re going to leave this is common sense.
Builds also represent playstyles and variance if a weapon is not viable that itself can imply a certain feel of play is not possible which in term means some of the interest in playing diminishes. Why play the game from the get-go if you do not enjoy it? That is reality, you’ll go find something you enjoy. Even with fotm you could spin it off, make it your own, each profession basically had a set role, but there were different ways to hit it to enjoy yourself while remaining competent. Gw2 is oddly worse when they’ve purposefully limited skill choice to prevent incompetence and aid balance…wtf?

But its freaking GW2, not WoW or any other MMOrpg! You can create a character and make a build, which is suitable for you within 20 mins.

and make a build, which is suitable for you…but you tell em to reroll ele if they want to run a certain weapon :o? Wot.

Again, it depends on the aim of the player. If you want to have fun with your uberproGSslashBANNERslash2xMACE warrior, then its ok, keep crying. But if you want to win tourneys, be good at spvp, then swallow the fact, that warriors suck, log out and create the freaking ele.

You should fundamentally see an issue with that when they restricted skill options with the idea that the weapon someone brought would not be a problem and as such a good reason to limit the choices of GW1. Sure if they’re running banner+kick or some nonsense then definitely something doesn’t add up.

Every weapon seen as unviable itself speaks poorly on them, forget utilities. If a weapon is mediocre wtf is it in the game for, when they want it to give a certain level of competence?
Or actually screw it lets quote them

Eric Flannum: Our goal remained the same. We wanted to keep the customisability which Guild Wars had. If I’m a Ranger in Guild Wars, I can be a very different character. I could have a hammer and a pet and be a melee character or I could have a bow and interrupt and harass other characters. They’re very different play styles, and you can customise your plays tyle. That was really important to preserve in GW2.

Rao Rangers had play, and of course our Disabling shot monster of old. You see this throught GW1, Deadly arts-deadly paradox sins and the traditional DM+CS builds? Hammer linebacking or Axe wars? There were more viable builds in GW1 with it’s clusterkitten of skills then when skill choice has been restricted for viability…that is terrible.

Eric Flannum: One of the issues we always ran into is that some players are not good at building those characters. We went through making sure that we didn’t take the customisation out, but also made it so you can’t make a really, really bad character. * In Guild Wars 2, for example, the first half of your skill-bar is determined by what you’re holding in your hand. So if I’m a warrior and I have a sword and a shield and then I switch to a great sword, my first five skills which change to reflect to show that I have a greatsword now. Those aren’t skills you drag to your skill-bar – they’re skills which are determined by your profession and what you’re holding. *That way we’re sure that people have at least basic, usable skills which they can build on top of. The second 5 are ones you can slot yourself, and enhance your basic functionality.

Any weapon seen as nonviable speaks poorly on them. Utilities being nerfed is one thing, the weapon skills must be solid on their own.

http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2010/04/28/guild-wars-2-interview-part-1-fighting-fires/

Jumper.9482:

“Whack-a-Mole” is a pretty accurate statement of what they’ve been doing thus-far.
At least from Thief PoV.
In order:
Unload, VShare, Pistolwhip, TacticalStrike(Daze/CC build) + Dagger Offhand, Pistolwhip and Unload again (via quickness)+ Condi+ Another dagger offhand nerf via 4sec reveal.
Mind you, most of these have been 33-50% nerfs, rendering the builds unviable especially in a competitive setting.

At this point either you play D/P burst because it’s the only thing untouched or you reroll ele.

You could say this about any class though. Except ele which even though the strongest seems to be the only class they are worried about over balancing.

The 1 main warrior build got an insane quickness nerf to make it not viable (100b build). The necro main build was nerfed with the changes to epidemic (epidemic build). The main ranger build nerfed with quickness. So yeh, its not just the thief.

Jumper.9482:

“Whack-a-Mole” is a pretty accurate statement of what they’ve been doing thus-far.
At least from Thief PoV.
In order:
Unload, VShare, Pistolwhip, TacticalStrike(Daze/CC build) + Dagger Offhand, Pistolwhip and Unload again (via quickness)+ Condi+ Another dagger offhand nerf via 4sec reveal.
Mind you, most of these have been 33-50% nerfs, rendering the builds unviable especially in a competitive setting.

At this point either you play D/P burst because it’s the only thing untouched or you reroll ele.

I missed beta/launch.

VShare, PWhip, S/D
Spirits Rangers
Staff Eles
Phantasm Mesmers

Tons of other builds we were using that could have been buffed to make them competitive, like bunker engies and DPS guard.

I wish Anet could just build those builds up first, instead of buffing things like conjure weapons, turrets, banners.
See why these buffs don’t work yet? A lot of the skills require some sort of mechanics change, not some sort of numbers tweaking. Those which could be easily buffed are neglected. Those which required rework barely got the dev’s attention (like majority of the warrior weapon sets).

Do devs really understand the weaknesses of each possible build that is not top tier currently? Is there even testing based on a Five verses Five setting?

Jumper.9482:

you reroll ele.

Sorry but you had some fragmented sentence structures before the actual statement you were making. I cleaned it up for you in-case anyone were to get lost deciphering the true message. No thank you necessary… I know you would do the same for me.

Daecollo.9578:

Volrath.1473:

Jumper.9482:

“Whack-a-Mole” is a pretty accurate statement of what they’ve been doing thus-far.
At least from Thief PoV.
In order:
Unload, VShare, Pistolwhip, TacticalStrike(Daze/CC build) + Dagger Offhand, Pistolwhip and Unload again (via quickness)+ Condi+ Another dagger offhand nerf via 4sec reveal.
Mind you, most of these have been 33-50% nerfs, rendering the builds unviable especially in a competitive setting.

At this point either you play D/P burst because it’s the only thing untouched or you reroll ele.

+1

my thought exactly!

All professions should be able to fill multiple roles (not all roles) but they ALL should have something that semperates them from the others, something that only they can do or at least to better than any other.

Thief was suppose to be the one with high burst, high mobility and evasiveness.

Clearly other professions beet Thieves in all the above aspects specially Elementalists that beat us on ALL of them but even if they didn’t there are still other professions that beat us on the aspects i just mention. Like Rangers and Mesmer evasiveness and mobility and as for burst also Mesmers and GC Guardians and Warriors, this last one is at the bottom of the foodchain atm but can still dish out loads of dmg.

Elementalist isn’t OP I don’t think, it just has FUN options to it that every other class needs, and IT needs a Sustained Damage option too, that is what it kind of lacks, the ability to play just one attunement and be fine.

I never thought the Ele was ever OP, I just think its more “complete” then the other classes in what it can and can’t do.

Karl, seriously…. i know you come on here trolling on your daecollo account..but it isn’t funny. you know darn well the state of the ele.

Phaeton.9582:

Lets face it, what do other successful mmo companies like SOE and blizzard have in common? They’re very good at making money off players. And are arguably quite evil.

Arguably quite evil? Are you serious?

Please… you have no rational argument that a business is “evil” if it sells a service to make a profit. No one is forced to buy the game, or buy extras in the game.

after DC universe, SOE lost a lot of credibility imho. acted like anet forcing that wonderful pvp game in a f2p kitten.