Guild Wars 2

because from my experience Thief is underpowered to the extreme right now…. every other class can duel him…

can anyone give me any tips?

dont suck? thief can burst down anyone from stealth and from 100 to 0 in a split second.

Cubotrix.1723:

because from my experience Thief is underpowered to the extreme right now…. every other class can duel him…

can anyone give me any tips?

Your job is to burst down squishies and important targets. You are an assassin that ganks players. You help your friends by ambushing your targets. You do not 1v1. You have no need to.

You have excellent mobility and stealth to escape bad situation. You can be anywhere you need to be easily.

Think like an assassin instead of a fighter.

Every other class can 1v1 at least one another class… but thieves are not allowed to 1v1 anyone…. because… non-thieves decided so? OKKKKKK

This whole “you are suppose to +1 and not be able to 1v1” is such a horse crap that everyone keeps feeding thief players trying to excuse the state of the class.

Yay, pvp is player vs player but you are not allowed to fight players… what kind of logic is that?

Cynz.9437:

Every other class can 1v1 at least one another class… but thieves are not allowed to 1v1 anyone…. because… non-thieves decided so? OKKKKKK

This whole “you are suppose to +1 and not be able to 1v1” is such a horse crap that everyone keeps feeding thief players trying to excuse the state of the class.

Yay, pvp is player vs player but you are not allowed to fight players… what kind of logic is that?

thief can 1v1 things like zerk warrior in pvp, and can 1v1 anything in wvw. however contesting points while 1v1ing is not thief’s strong point, nor is it why people take them. this is due primarily to conquest interfering with how thief fights (lots of stealth and mobility mean you lose the caps), thief is still very strong for 1v1 in wvw or other 1v1 environments. however due to thief’s mobility, burst potential and group stealth the class has a distinct valuable role in pvp. just play that role.

B Tier:

• DA/SA/TR + D/P & SB
  (high mobility, strong team utility, decent 1v1 presence)

C Tier:

• DA/CS/TR + D/P & SB
  (high mobility, stronger spike ability, passable 1v1 viability)
• DA/CS/TR + S/D & SB
  (high mobility, strong harassment presence, can 1v1 certain things)
• DA/SA/TR + S/D & P/D
  (passable mobility, strong team utility, decent 1v1 presence)

D Tier and below:

• every other build

so right now the only thing keeping thief relevant in the meta is shortbow and SA’s team utility. this is mainly due to a relative lack of buffs during the 23rd Patch and still getting multiple nerfs: acro was completely butchered, shadows embrace effectively lost a huge chunk of it’s functionality by no longer removing non-damaging conditions like weakness/immobilize/fear/taunt/slow/blind, withdraw got a 3 second longer CD without promised healing increase, etc… for example, mesmer essentially got an entire traitline worth of baseline traits because they were viewed as “too essential” while thief only got a 300 range increase on steal despite suffering from the same thing; we’re ridiculously dependent on Trickery and yet nothing has been done to alleviate this. the combination of unnecessary nerfs to thief’s fighting strength and a completely disproportional increase of other professions’ strength (ele, mesmer, and necro namely) essentially stripped thief of being a viable fighter against much of the meta- reducing thief to only being able to fill support roles via backcapping, +1ing, and stealth rezing.

imo, getting trickster baseline while seeing the current S-tier (ele/mesmer/necro) get nerfed in line would make thief A Tier again. until then, the best we can hope for is the four other eles on our team to steamroll every teamfight while getting super esport competitive mlg decaps.

Apolo.5942:

dont suck? thief can burst down anyone from stealth and from 100 to 0 in a split second.

I feel like you are Marty McFly and you’ve just come back from the past. The current situation is different.

Thief has a place, but given the current bunker/burn meta we have to try a bit harder than perhaps we’ve been accustomed to in past years. This is compounded by the hefty supply of passive defenses every profession has received…except for thief of course.

i just feel that as a Thief we get outclassed in EVERYTHING…..

burst assassin style = warr does it better
stealth = mesmer and rangers also have acess to it
HUGE lack of condi removal when COMPARED to the other classes
lack of a block X attacks for x time skill ( i think all classes have this except necromancer but he has DS )
i wont even talk about the guardian that can be FULL DAMAGE and still be a tank cause of infinite aegis and invulnables etc….
the only thing that was supposed to make the thief well…. the THIEF was the steal mechanic but lets be honest here….. it may sound cool and yes its a free shadowstep but the stolen skills SUCK so bad, the only decent stolen skill is the warr stolen because the majority of times u get a tooth it equals low damage plus 1 bleed ( really anet) or feathers that stealth for 3 sec.

Apolo.5942:

dont suck? thief can burst down anyone from stealth and from 100 to 0 in a split second.

I think we’re playing a different game.

Cubotrix.1723:

i just feel that as a Thief we get outclassed in EVERYTHING…..(..)
i wont even talk about the guardian that can be FULL DAMAGE and still be a tank cause of infinite aegis and invulnables etc….
(…)

It is just a feeling becouse theres alot of AOE to win in this game.

Less spam, dont use your thief like a warrior., and dont burst all your skills on it while guardian is using focus SoW…
Only guard invulnerability is on a 72-90CD, still damaged by conditions.

And thiefs only have problems with “fierish” GS medi guards, due mostly if get cought on WW aoe heavy damage + fire, anything else on guardian is easily defeated.

Some classes still have better options on survivability w/o loosing all the offensive aspect, a guardian that plays mostly defense is a dead one, all he is gona do is leech on playing always with a team mate, die on point circle, or leave when feel pressured.

(edit), if ur dying with fire stacks against a guardian ur not playing your thief well.
(edit2), The diference betteen the heavy armored class and light armor damage reduction goes arround 10%, while many light classes still have better offensive capabilities with good sustain based on waterfields, evades, stealth, Guardians in this case w/o a focus, renewed focus, shelter blocks, would loose to any class….remember their low hp pool, w/o those timed blocks they are easilly downed if they cant escape.

It’s in good shape in terms of conquest, still. Although it needs more nerf depends on who play the thief itself. Tips? Play the Trait System and look for yourself how wonderful it is.

Chapell.1346:

It’s in good shape in terms of conquest, still. Although it needs more nerf depends on who play the thief itself. Tips? Play the Trait System and look for yourself how wonderful it is.

More nerfs? It actually is in a dire need of buffs.
It’s already bullied into a corner, tyvm.

If you dont play/main a thief, please don’t call for nerfs without knowing how it works.

Thieves are actually fine. It’s just a lot of thief players expect to be able to instantly down people without any risk to themselves. So when their fragile builds fail, they come here to complain about things being OP. It’s just more of the attitude of “My build is supposed to beat X” that is so prevalent here.

Terrorsquad.4802:

Chapell.1346:

depends on who play the thief itself.

More nerfs? It actually is in a dire need of buffs.
It’s already bullied into a corner, tyvm.

If you dont play/main a thief, please don’t call for nerfs without knowing how it works.

My apologies. it seems, i misread the most important part of the sentence i wrote. Yeah so much more to learn, since the game became play for free i just started using my thief.

DaShi.1368:

Thieves are actually fine. It’s just a lot of thief players expect to be able to instantly down people without any risk to themselves. So when their fragile builds fail, they come here to complain about things being OP. It’s just more of the attitude of “My build is supposed to beat X” that is so prevalent here.

this whole argument fails when we take mesmers into consideration

Cynz.9437:

DaShi.1368:

Thieves are actually fine. It’s just a lot of thief players expect to be able to instantly down people without any risk to themselves. So when their fragile builds fail, they come here to complain about things being OP. It’s just more of the attitude of “My build is supposed to beat X” that is so prevalent here.

this whole argument fails when we take mesmers into consideration

That is becouse game is not ment to be balanced(or mostly what anet calls balance), “metas” just shift from one class to another, players need to be clever and follow that.

Aeolus.3615:

Cynz.9437:

DaShi.1368:

Thieves are actually fine. It’s just a lot of thief players expect to be able to instantly down people without any risk to themselves. So when their fragile builds fail, they come here to complain about things being OP. It’s just more of the attitude of “My build is supposed to beat X” that is so prevalent here.

this whole argument fails when we take mesmers into consideration

That is becouse game is not ment to be balanced, “metas” just shift from one class to another, players need to be clever and follow that.

That would make sense if this game had 100 classes (some of them similar) like mobas but it doesn’t. Having 2-3 classes overperforming while every other struggles to be viable in a game that has very few classes on first place is just garbage balance strategy and leads to majority of players being disappointed with game and quiting. Games are ment to be played for fun and not to make player feel like laughing stock just because Anet decided to handle class X an iWin button and nerf everything else.

Also, game becomes really boring if 1 specific class is outperforming. You know what happend during hambow meta? Evereyone played hambow. I remember having games with up to 8 wars in match. It gets very tiring very fast. Same is happening right now with DD eles. I see 3 dd eles on enemy team, i see 2 dd eles on my team and i just wanna afk because match gonna be complete snooze fest.

Cynz.9437:

Aeolus.3615:

Cynz.9437:

DaShi.1368:

Thieves are actually fine. It’s just a lot of thief players expect to be able to instantly down people without any risk to themselves. So when their fragile builds fail, they come here to complain about things being OP. It’s just more of the attitude of “My build is supposed to beat X” that is so prevalent here.

this whole argument fails when we take mesmers into consideration

That is becouse game is not ment to be balanced, “metas” just shift from one class to another, players need to be clever and follow that.

That would make sense if this game had 100 classes (some of them similar) like mobas but it doesn’t. Having 2-3 classes overperforming while every other struggles to be viable in a game that has very few classes on first place is just garbage balance strategy and leads to majority of players being disappointed with game and quiting.

Saddly that is GW2, it is not even the rock, scizor paper effect
It was lesser noticable on gw1 because pvp had a 8 spot team and larger maps with diferent gameplay, and gimmick still harder to pull due how game worked, still gw1 also had a bit of that.

Cynz.9437:

DaShi.1368:

Thieves are actually fine. It’s just a lot of thief players expect to be able to instantly down people without any risk to themselves. So when their fragile builds fail, they come here to complain about things being OP. It’s just more of the attitude of “My build is supposed to beat X” that is so prevalent here.

this whole argument fails when we take mesmers into consideration

Not at all. Mesmers have nothing to do with it. That they are being brought up only furthers strengthens my argument that this isn’t about thieves, it’s about the unrealistic expectation of some thief players.

Just look at all the threads by thieves complaining about other classes. Then look at how many threads are actually about thieves. The real problem is obvious and it’s not the classes.

DaShi.1368:

Cynz.9437:

DaShi.1368:

Thieves are actually fine. It’s just a lot of thief players expect to be able to instantly down people without any risk to themselves. So when their fragile builds fail, they come here to complain about things being OP. It’s just more of the attitude of “My build is supposed to beat X” that is so prevalent here.

this whole argument fails when we take mesmers into consideration

Not at all. Mesmers have nothing to do with it. That they are being brought up only furthers strengthens my argument that this isn’t about thieves, it’s about the unrealistic expectation of some thief players.

Just look at all the threads by thieves complaining about other classes. Then look at how many threads are actually about thieves. The real problem is obvious and it’s not the classes.

Did you even read what you wrote lol?

So far, every single tournament team that I’ve watched has a thief on their team. Even last week’s ESL winners that were 4 eles, the 5th player was a Thief. It’s kind of hard to argue that the thief is weak and useless when it seems to have a guaranteed spot in top teams. It’s definitely strong and useful if the player is good at it.

I beat tons of people in 1v1s on my Thief in unranked matches as well so it depends what kind of opponents you’re up against and how good you are at playing the thief. You can surprise people and burst them down very fast, that’s his specialty. If I spot a squishy in a fight who’s around 60% hp, I can teleport onto him and down him before he can actually do anything.

If what you want is the thief to be doing better at duels, the new elite spec from the expansions (I tested it with the beta weekend) makes the thief stronger for that. You might want to look into that elite specialization, it might be better suited for the playstyle you’re looking for. It may not be as good to surprise and down people very fast but it should be stronger in some 1v1 situations.

Apolo.5942:

dont suck? thief can burst down anyone from stealth and from 100 to 0 in a split second.

you need to be totally braindead (Like real no-hands level) AND running zerk/marauder to let a thief 100-0 you with a single jump

Thief is amazing in conquest, but only if you play to its strengths, which is generally very different from other classes. Thieves excel at decapping undefended points with their unparalleled mobility and +1ing even fights to quickly turn the tide.

If you try to 1 v 1 or just jump in team fights from the start, you’ll find PvP to be an uphill battle and it will likely be very frustrating.

Thief isn’t strong; SB5 too OP. It carries the thief.

Dahkeus.8243:

Thieves excel at decapping undefended points with their unparalleled mobility and +1ing even fights to quickly turn the tide.

I laughed.

You should get a job in advertising. You’re good at making general mediocrity seem like a strength.

runeblade.7514:

Your job is to burst down squishies and important targets. You are an assassin that ganks players. You help your friends by ambushing your targets. You do not 1v1. You have no need to.

Didn’t Arenanet market “no role-locking” as a selling point of their game? A thief specced for 1v1ing should be able to 1v1. The current "No, even if you’re dps you dont get to skirmish, go sit on the point until the team gets back or “plus 1 because thats what you do” " is atrocious and I refuse to agree with the current consensus that this is fine.

DaShi.1368:

Thieves are actually fine. It’s just a lot of thief players expect to be able to instantly down people without any risk to themselves. So when their fragile builds fail, they come here to complain about things being OP. It’s just more of the attitude of “My build is supposed to beat X” that is so prevalent here.

If I can speak for myself, I don’t expect to instagib anyone. The fact that I have an incredibly hard time putting out respectable dps due to Thief’s low HP pool, coupled with the fact that other classes can now instadown players (from stealth, mind you in some cases) doesnt sit right with me, because I’m putting in lots of effort with no forseeable reward.

Thieves cannot sustain long enough to get the job done in most cases. No blocks (DD not included), crippled evades (because evading thief was too op), and all damage mitigation shoehorned into stealth (which can be crippled too.)

I’d be fine with that difficulty if there was not, at the same time, a reliable means for the majority of the other classes to simply press one button and gain a period of stark invulnerability.

I’m not asking for classes on a platter. I enjoy Thief because its hard to play.

It should not, at the same time though, be almost impossible to win with in most 1v1 settings.

Azure The Heartless.3261:

Dahkeus.8243:

Thieves excel at decapping undefended points with their unparalleled mobility and +1ing even fights to quickly turn the tide.

I laughed.

You should get a job in advertising. You’re good at making general mediocrity seem like a strength.

Are you new to PvP? Cuz what I described is pretty much what a thief did to get voted MVP for Abjured in their WTS victory. Thief’s mobility and burst is far from mediocrity.

Dahkeus.8243:

Azure The Heartless.3261:

Dahkeus.8243:

Thieves excel at decapping undefended points with their unparalleled mobility and +1ing even fights to quickly turn the tide.

I laughed.

You should get a job in advertising. You’re good at making general mediocrity seem like a strength.

Are you new to PvP? Cuz what I described is pretty much what a thief did to get voted MVP for Abjured in their WTS victory. Thief’s mobility and burst is far from mediocrity.

No, I’m not.

I’m not arguing that mobility is bad.

I’m amused by the fact that +1ing and decapping is what the thief as a class is delegated to, when those facets are general procedure for any class that plays pvp.
And, of those general procedures, those two are the least combative.

This is a heads up to new thieves.

The thief isn’t an assassin. In the beginning it was, but not anymore. Thief has a defined role that other people(who main other profession) seem to be okay with. Thief is now a support class. They infiltrate and decap points because of their mobility but can’t engage other professions of equal skill alone. In an even match, the thief comes in to turn the tide(3v2). If you(thief) are the even matchup(2v2), it’s better to run away and find a even match up to tip the balance(2v1 or 3v2). That is what the thief is. You may hate what your profession is reduced to in Spvp but it is what it is.

To summarize this you can only win unfair fights cause you’re a thief. If you want a fair 1v1 you’ll have to kill the enemy thief(the irony).

The sooner you realize this the better. Don’t like it? I recommend the Revenant.

IDICERI.4268:

To summarize this you can only win unfair fights cause you’re a thief.

Id like to point this out to the community members that swore by their hat that thief was OP when they were suffering from l2p.

This is what you all wanted. The reason people think Thief is fine is because it has the stigma of a cheap class that should not be playable or decent on its own. It must always rely on backup to be usable.

And this is what Anet delivered.

Unfortunately for many casual players, GW2 is balanced around high-end tournaments, where thief is required on every single team, as it has been throughout the game’s history. In this setting, thief is incredibly powerful for its mobility (decap potential), ability to create and end unfair fights, and, oddly enough, ability to provide support in the form of stealth resses. At this time, the class is as close to balanced as it has ever been.

However, because of that extreme mobility, the class has less ability to win 1v1’s. If it were any other way, it would be over-powered. Because you provide SO MUCH to your team by simply your map presence and forcing unfair fights, being able to dominate fair fights makes the class an apex predator.

Unfortunately for many who play thief, this doesn’t fulfill the role they want. IME, many thief players want to be super-stealth uber-gank, lone-wolf Rambo type that kill everyone 1v1, thereby carrying their team all by themselves. However, because of the mechanics of conquest (and gw2 in general), this is something that is unbalanced. Thus, you will see many of the thieves on this forum QQ because they are forced to play their class a certain way (utilizing that high mobility to win the map, not just their pet 1v1’s). All the while, they don’t understand that bashing your face into a 1v1 as a squishy is not only the worst play you could make for your team (regardless of class) even if you DID eventually win, but that they do exponentially more damage endlessly fighting on points they don’t control and usually losing in the end.

Usually the thieves that will tell you that they currently are built amazing for a necessary conquest role are the best ones. The ones who QQ about the class simply want to be OP.

At least thieves are the absolute best at some role that’s valuable to a PVP team. In fact one of the most valuable positions on the team as it can easily turn the course of a game.

“Do Thieves have a role in SPvP?” is not a question anyone is really asking. Due to their single target burst and mobility, Thieves have had a place in the meta for a long time. No one is disputing this, and yet… nearly every time a dedicated Thief expresses their frustration with their profession, the Thief’s presence in the meta is thrown in their face, as if it should invalidate any possible complaint.

Believe it or not, many of us are unhappy with our Thieves for reasons other than wanting to be a “super-stealth uber-gank lone-wolf Rambo type that kills everyone 1v1”. Personally, I’d like to have some build and playstyle options outside of one narrowly defined prescribed role. Having a place in the meta does not make it fun to have only two remotely viable builds to choose from.

I think a lot of people don’t realize how much changed with the trait revamp in June. Thief lost several vital initiative and evasive traits, while overall trait quality and damage went up for most other professions. People like to pretend that the Thief’s current state is some kind of gradual meta shift or intended design direction, but the truth is that Thief got the least attention and the least improvement from the trait revamp. If some of these issues were resolved, things might be different.

But hey, it’s easier to cry “nerf thieves” even as they’re already on their back foot and barely propped up by Shortbow #5. Try playing one for a while in SPvP if you don’t already… your opinions might gradually change

BlackBeard.2873:

Unfortunately for many who play thief, this doesn’t fulfill the role they want. IME, many thief players want to be super-stealth uber-gank, lone-wolf Rambo type that kill everyone 1v1, thereby carrying their team all by themselves.

Don’t speak for other players. I just want my favourite class to be able to win 1v1 at least sometimes, what’s wrong with that? I think that is the minimum requirement for a class to even be viable in pvp. There were loads of professions thief struggled against even prior to the big patch and all the changes. Now it struggles against everything. And I’m pretty sure you don’t play thief so your opinion is irrelevant.

Ehecatl.9172:

At least thieves are the absolute best at some role that’s valuable to a PVP team. In fact one of the most valuable positions on the team as it can easily turn the course of a game.

+1 is still not a role. I’d like to see people’s reactions if the same happened to say… Warrior, or ele. Force them into +1 role, making them obsolete in everything else and unable to 1v1. The uproar would be pretty hilarious.

The sad thing is, no one seems to care that thief is currently in that place.

Maris.3164:

+1 is still not a role. I’d like to see people’s reactions if the same happened to say… Warrior, or ele. Force them into +1 role, making them obsolete in everything else and unable to 1v1. The uproar would be pretty hilarious.

The sad thing is, no one seems to care that thief is currently in that place.

It is a role. It’s a role rangers are trying very hard to break into with their longbow in fact. But they can’t because they don’t compete with thieves in terms of mobility.

It’s an interesting observation of the human condition that thieves are unhappy with the role they have that rangers desperately want just to be able to be competitive at all.

Hello,

Point of view from an average/good War Player

Most of the time Thief are engaging me with a single 1v1 burst try… and most of the time they die … Always thinking "Not vs a Warrior, you can’t mitigate the damage I do "

Then from time to time I see other thief playing that 1v1 in a different way : burst … safe area reburst and so on … and then well my comments gets into a “Well ..it’s a no match ..nothing I can do here”

It’sounds to me really like a gameplay issue most of the thief have … they are jsut trying to burst and don’t care on their life, AoE ….

Thief have mobility, Shadow and strong burst ..that is somehow balanced with low health…
From my point of view currently they are mainly made to focus/down& then escape mid-low health target and not for a pure 1v1 or running into a 5v5 fight with full AoE around

but then another question came in mind …Messmer or Thief ?)… Messmer are so OP currently and similar skill in term of shadowing& burst but allows much more errors…

Regarding 2v2 … I believe they are some really good combos like e.g. : 2thief or Thief + Ranger … wihich both have crazy burst capabilities

PvP: player vs player combat yet entire thief role atm is to avoid combat by all means. It is like saying: hey you can do dungeons but don’t you dare to fight/kill bosses :|

Take example bunker guards: they sacrifice offensive stats/traits to be able to tank points/defend team/support etc. They purposely drop offensive role and capability to 1v1 for the sake of great team support. It is OK.

Now here the thing with the thief: they sacrifice almost all defensives (which frankly are pretty crappy anyway) for offensive power and are still hardly any threat to ANY class atm. THIS doesn’t make ANY sense. +1 is not a role, it is part of the role. No thief is asking to be OP, all they ask for is to have fair chance vs some other classes (not all) in 1v1 and not to be free points for anyone, w/o support of teammates.

Ok, let’s assume +1 is a role and if you pick it you are not allowed to 1v1. Mesmers fill exactly same role yet they can 1v1 about any class in game atm. WHERE DOES THIS FIT IN, PLEASE EXPLAIN ME?

Then we also have a joke with “omg thieves are bad, l2p”: well if only about 10 thieves on EU are good and rest (99%) is bad while let’s say roughly 40% of eles are “good”, WHERE DOES THIS FIT IN? Statistically it simply doesn’t make sense unless you assume that thieves are played only by people with mental/physical problems (which is unrealistic). If 99% of the thieves are bad then it says something about the thief as a class compared to other classes.

I am personally sick and tired of being forced to play close to perfect vs eles/mesmers and co. that can’t land even half of their skills and yet get rewarded for bad gameplay where i get punished for 1 mistake. If thieves are balanced then every other class should receive same threatment.

Ehecatl.9172:

Maris.3164:

+1 is still not a role. I’d like to see people’s reactions if the same happened to say… Warrior, or ele. Force them into +1 role, making them obsolete in everything else and unable to 1v1. The uproar would be pretty hilarious.

The sad thing is, no one seems to care that thief is currently in that place.

It is a role. It’s a role rangers are trying very hard to break into with their longbow in fact. But they can’t because they don’t compete with thieves in terms of mobility.

It’s an interesting observation of the human condition that thieves are unhappy with the role they have that rangers desperately want just to be able to be competitive at all.

Tbh i think rangers should be more of team fighter/support. What drags them down is pet. If half of their mechanics didn’t evolve around pet i am sure the class would be stronger in other areas and more viable.

Before the beta event going on right now, thief was “meh”, okay performance in most games.

Now with the beta and the new builds, thief is hit or miss, half the games they feel “okay”, the other half they feel subpar, countered and/or outclassed. Welcome to the expansion, thieves need not apply.

Ehecatl.9172:

Maris.3164:

+1 is still not a role. I’d like to see people’s reactions if the same happened to say… Warrior, or ele. Force them into +1 role, making them obsolete in everything else and unable to 1v1. The uproar would be pretty hilarious.

The sad thing is, no one seems to care that thief is currently in that place.

It is a role. It’s a role rangers are trying very hard to break into with their longbow in fact. But they can’t because they don’t compete with thieves in terms of mobility.

It’s an interesting observation of the human condition that thieves are unhappy with the role they have that rangers desperately want just to be able to be competitive at all.

Thieves are not unhappy about being a +1 class, they are unhappy about not being able to smack the living hell out of everyone but the tankiest builds. If they would look at the big picture objectively they would realize that they are not weak just that the playing field has been leveled out a bit.

BlackBeard.2873:

Unfortunately for many casual players, GW2 is balanced around high-end tournaments, where thief is required on every single team, as it has been throughout the game’s history. In this setting, thief is incredibly powerful for its mobility (decap potential), ability to create and end unfair fights, and, oddly enough, ability to provide support in the form of stealth resses. At this time, the class is as close to balanced as it has ever been.

balancing around anything other than high-level play is literally appealing to lowest common denominator and harming people who have gotten good because people who are bad at the game demand it suit them better; this is the absolute worst strategy to balancing anything possible. and the fact that thief is meta entirely due to support roles is a complete joke. we are not “as close to balanced as it has ever been” when we are effectively locked out of A-Tier (the goal tier for all professions to be in) because of S-Tiered ele, mesmer, and necro. right now as it stands we need slight buffing while the aforementioned professions need considerable nerfing, and when that happens, you can then say thief is fine. being locked entirely into support roles with no options to fighting viability is not balance.

However, because of that extreme mobility, the class has less ability to win 1v1’s. If it were any other way, it would be over-powered. Because you provide SO MUCH to your team by simply your map presence and forcing unfair fights, being able to dominate fair fights makes the class an apex predator.

Unfortunately for many who play thief, this doesn’t fulfill the role they want. IME, many thief players want to be super-stealth uber-gank, lone-wolf Rambo type that kill everyone 1v1, thereby carrying their team all by themselves. However, because of the mechanics of conquest (and gw2 in general), this is something that is unbalanced. Thus, you will see many of the thieves on this forum QQ because they are forced to play their class a certain way (utilizing that high mobility to win the map, not just their pet 1v1’s). All the while, they don’t understand that bashing your face into a 1v1 as a squishy is not only the worst play you could make for your team (regardless of class) even if you DID eventually win, but that they do exponentially more damage endlessly fighting on points they don’t control and usually losing in the end.

at this point you’re just pull stuff out of nowhere because you have a personal issue with thief or something petty like that. all we want is to be able to compete in small fights like 1v1s and 2v2s, and with there being no options for us to do so in the current meta, thief players are rightfully upset that we cant even choose our playstyle.

Usually the thieves that will tell you that they currently are built amazing for a necessary conquest role are the best ones. The ones who QQ about the class simply want to be OP.

again, getting shoehorned into one and only one style of play is beyond obnoxious and unenjoyable. so hearing this patronizing “THIEF PLAYERS JUST WANT TO BE OP!!!” nonsense isnt helping anything, especially coming from someone who plays elementalist.

sinject.4607:

again, getting shoehorned into one and only one style of play is beyond obnoxious and unenjoyable. so hearing this patronizing “THIEF PLAYERS JUST WANT TO BE OP!!!” nonsense isnt helping anything, especially coming from someone who plays elementalist.

Sorry but are you saying you would want to play a bunker thief???

Cynz.9437:

Every other class can 1v1 at least one another class… but thieves are not allowed to 1v1 anyone…. because… non-thieves decided so? OKKKKKK

This whole “you are suppose to +1 and not be able to 1v1” is such a horse crap that everyone keeps feeding thief players trying to excuse the state of the class.

Yay, pvp is player vs player but you are not allowed to fight players… what kind of logic is that?

Well, if you want to go on like that, then necromancers can go: “This is contest, but we are snails ergo we need thieves mobility”. In other words: In my opinion, classes should not be given every relevant function in one build. That thieves have had this in the past, does not imo make it right.

Do you in all seriousness find it right, that the class with the highest mobility and (imo) best escape-options also should be good in 1vs1 … in the same build? If it were in 2 separate builds, then I would have no issue with it at all, but if it was in the same build, I would seriously ask my self, why anyone would play anything else (give or take one bunker per team, but that is about it).

kolompi.1287:

sinject.4607:

again, getting shoehorned into one and only one style of play is beyond obnoxious and unenjoyable. so hearing this patronizing “THIEF PLAYERS JUST WANT TO BE OP!!!” nonsense isnt helping anything, especially coming from someone who plays elementalist.

Sorry but are you saying you would want to play a bunker thief???

Why not? Guards can play bunker, condi burning dps and medi build. Why can’t thieves be more than stealth/rez pet?

Also, Anet really missed great opportunity to create bruiser team fighter thief with staff. I could totally see it being viable if staff was more about blocks, CCs, team support etc., monk style~ All we got is acro 2.0 with bugged/clunky traits/spells zzzz.

Poxxia.1547:

Cynz.9437:

Every other class can 1v1 at least one another class… but thieves are not allowed to 1v1 anyone…. because… non-thieves decided so? OKKKKKK

This whole “you are suppose to +1 and not be able to 1v1” is such a horse crap that everyone keeps feeding thief players trying to excuse the state of the class.

Yay, pvp is player vs player but you are not allowed to fight players… what kind of logic is that?

Well, if you want to go on like that, then necromancers can go: “This is contest, but we are snails ergo we need thieves mobility”. In other words: In my opinion, classes should not be given every relevant function in one build. That thieves have had this in the past, does not imo make it right.

Do you in all seriousness find it right, that the class with the highest mobility and (imo) best escape-options also should be good in 1vs1 … in the same build? If it were in 2 separate builds, then I would have no issue with it at all, but if it was in the same build, I would seriously ask my self, why anyone would play anything else (give or take one bunker per team, but that is about it).

Necros are waaaayyyyy better team fighters than thieves ever will be. Necros can stay in big scale fights, thieves will never be able to nor they ask for it.

Once again no thief is asking to be able to 1v1 every single class in game but at least have fair chance vs some of them. Also, once again WHERE DO MESMERS FIT IN THIS WHOLE ARGUMENT OF YOURS because they can fill exactly same role, have actually more stealth than thieves, more CC, higher burst and better survival.

I have yet to see a single post in any thread that managed explain why it is ok for mesmers to be how they are but not for thieves.

Cynz.9437:

Necros are waaaayyyyy better team fighters than thieves ever will be. Necros can stay in big scale fights, thieves will never be able to nor they ask for it.

Once again no thief is asking to be able to 1v1 every single class in game but at least have fair chance vs some of them. Also, once again WHERE DO MESMERS FIT IN THIS WHOLE ARGUMENT OF YOURS because they can fill exactly same role, have actually more stealth than thieves, more CC, higher burst and better survival.

I have yet to see a single post in any thread that managed explain why it is ok for mesmers to be how they are but not for thieves.

Mesmers don’t “fit in my argument” – I was under the impression we were talking about thieves. Attacking my argument by drawing in mesmers is a straw man.
My point is exactly the opposite: You can’t compare classes like that (or at least imo you shouldn’t be able to).
I think you should be a bit more specific about what you want to be able to do … in one build. And what you want to be able to do “in general”.

kolompi.1287:

sinject.4607:

again, getting shoehorned into one and only one style of play is beyond obnoxious and unenjoyable. so hearing this patronizing “THIEF PLAYERS JUST WANT TO BE OP!!!” nonsense isnt helping anything, especially coming from someone who plays elementalist.

Sorry but are you saying you would want to play a bunker thief???

is there an issue with this being a possibility? why would it be a bad thing if thief could be an effective bunker with it’s own unique approach to that style of play?

what im saying is that all professions should, ideally, be viable in their own way when it comes to fulfilling multiple roles and thief in particular should not be overlooked as being in need of a buff in this respect simply because we can move around the map better than other professions- being able to win fights is always going be infinitely more valuable than being able to run from them.

again, what i’m calling for is the slightest buff(s) here or there to thief while seeing the overly dominant professions that rule the current meta get brought down to earth with proper nerfs. i’m tired of losing fights before they even begin because i’m not playing the right profession and i don’t think wanting the possibility of being able to fairly beat someone in a fight regardless of profession is a bad thing.

We can’t even gank or go for other solo people at times. This beta weekend I was moaned at by a enemy ranger for not helping my team, because I was harassing him on his treb and fighting/killing people at the supply camp (champions dusk was the map) I thought I was doing the right thing, keeping out of too much aoe, picking my fights and slowing people down.

And about having the most mobilty and being able to 1v1 in the same build, well d/d ele can do that but granted, they are not as mobile as a thief.

Azure The Heartless.3261:

runeblade.7514:

Your job is to burst down squishies and important targets. You are an assassin that ganks players. You help your friends by ambushing your targets. You do not 1v1. You have no need to.

Didn’t Arenanet market “no role-locking” as a selling point of their game? A thief specced for 1v1ing should be able to 1v1. The current "No, even if you’re dps you dont get to skirmish, go sit on the point until the team gets back or “plus 1 because thats what you do” " is atrocious and I refuse to agree with the current consensus that this is fine.

How is D/P role-locking? You can 1v1 if you want. You can skirmish if you want. But +1 is the best role for the thief that assassinate targets. That is like calling Warriors role-locking because they aren’t as good as thief in +1.

Dahkeus.8243:

Thief is amazing in conquest, but only if you play to its strengths, which is generally very different from other classes. Thieves excel at decapping undefended points with their unparalleled mobility and +1ing even fights to quickly turn the tide.

If you try to 1 v 1 or just jump in team fights from the start, you’ll find PvP to be an uphill battle and it will likely be very frustrating.

“This half-dead octogenarian is amazing at professional football, guys! It’s just that you have to play to his strengths, like getting water bottles for the active teamplayers, collect dirty towels after the rest of the team showers etc. instead of actually letting him play the game. And every team has someone who does this kind of stuff, therefore, he must be the best player on the team!”