Guild Wars 2

What in the name of the Six is up with ANets infatuation with BLIND!?

Now Teef, Ele, Guard, and Mes all have a ton of access to blind. I’ve seen Teefs be able to win fights in relative safety by just using Shadow Shot over and over while stealthed because it’s super easy to just disrupt the enemy that way. On several of the above listed classes many of these blinds are either unblockable, unaviodable, or both! There’s very little counterplay to be had. In the case of Mesmer you can’t even pull out the tired old “just dodge” argument (which applies to everything and is the least helpful thing you can say, especially since many of them can also be used from stealth).

Blind was less obnoxious when you could cleanse it by simply auto attacking. It was still good imo, it just forced players to actually TIME their blinds rather than just throwing them out willy nilly.

The current sea of soot it severely hindering my personal enjoyment of the game. I don’t mind it existing, but whenever I use any of the above mentioned classes I feel cheap. Blind on classes like Engi doesn’t feel all that bad, they have to time it because they can’t throw it out constantly.

There are several possible solutions to this:

• Traits like Blinding Dissipation HAVE to be dodgeable. I would even go so far as to say that it needs a ICD as well. Because IP is baseline now if you’re a power-based Mes you can use F2 to blind, dodge or create a clone in some way, then F4 for another blind, which the target cannot cleanse if it’s a 1v1 so after the invuln ends the Mes is still safe for one more attack and there’s nothing you can do about it.

• Similar to above, skills such as Shadow Shot should not be unblockable. It’s laughably easy to use it while stealthed.

• The Blinding Ashes ICD seems very low, Ele’s aren’t as bad as Mes and Teef but the trait is just as annoying as Incendiary Powder where basically no matter what you do, you’re probably going to have it trigger no matter how hard you try and avoid it.

• You could also just revert blind to how it used to work and allow it to be removed by auto attacking. Or, you could make 2 different types of blind. On classes like Warrior/Engi where they only have a few blinds their blinds could function like they currently do.

• (ASP.8093) Slightly reducing the duration of most blinds by even 1 second so that they would be 2 second instead of the normal 3 would make them much more of a “soft CC” as opposed to what they are now.

EDIT: Random side-question:

I know people have mixed opinions of me, sometimes I deserve the hate. That being said, would any of you who read my posts be interested in watching a narrated version of posts like this but in video form? I recently graduated with a degree in communications so I thought doing something like that might be good practice.

I wholeheartedly agree

what the? since when was blind buffed ?

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Blind

“Blindness is removed after the condition’s time runs out, or after an outgoing attack that would have been successful if not for the blind.”

if we attack nothing, the blind will not go away?

BD needs a fix. I’m pretty sure it’s just an outright bug.

In general, I think Blind’s duration is excessive. With 3-second Blinds being pretty standard, you don’t have to worry about timing blind too well if you’re generally bouncing in and out of reach and evading a lot. Reducing the duration slightly would make Blind more like a soft interrupt. I’m not, like, yelling for that to happen, though, because I think it’s a change that might put D/P thieves in a bad place. But I think the rather long duration is a significant contributor to the “feel bad” factor.

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

what the? since when was blind buffed ?

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Blind

“Blindness is removed after the condition’s time runs out, or after an outgoing attack that would have been successful if not for the blind.”

if we attack nothing, the blind will not go away?

At launch, you could tap your auto attack button and swing at air and the blind would be removed. I assume it was supposed to be kind of a “wiping the dirt from your eyes” kind of move. Blind wasn’t as good, but if you actually timed it it still did the job fine. Now, you have to actually “waste” an attack that would have otherwise hit in order to cleanse the blind, or of course use a condi cleanse.

Sorry, guess I could have worded it better because no everyone was here since launch/remembers stuff like that.

ASP.8093:

BD needs a fix. I’m pretty sure it’s just an outright bug.

In general, I think Blind’s duration is excessive. With 3-second Blinds being pretty standard, you don’t have to worry about timing blind too well if you’re generally bouncing in and out of reach and evading a lot. Reducing the duration slightly would make Blind more like a soft interrupt. I’m not, like, yelling for that to happen, though, because I think it’s a change that might put D/P thieves in a bad place. But I think the rather long duration is a significant contributor to the “feel bad” factor.

That’s an option, even 2 seconds would feel much better.

I agree. You often miss key skills due to all the random blinds been thrown around constantly in team fights, it’s incredibly annoying and there’s just no counter for such a thing. Blind is such a powerful condition, much more than it’s been given credit for, it should not be anywhere near as abundant.

Khenzy.9348:

I agree. You often miss key skills due to all the random blinds been thrown around constantly in team fights, it’s incredibly annoying and there’s just no counter for such a thing. Blind is such a powerful condition, much more than it’s been given credit for, it should not be anywhere near as abundant.

It’s a lot like Weakness in that regard. Super strong but you rarely see it mentioned cause few have ready access to it. I’m actually looking at making some sort of Hybrid Hambow Warrior because Body Blow is actually a really interesting trait.

It would make more sense in my opinion of there were specific skills tied to a trait blind, which were easy to see coming at you so you knew when you were going to be blinded to an extent. Right now there is soo much RNG that can cause some of these blinds it can be completely random.

BurrTheKing.8571:

Khenzy.9348:

I agree. You often miss key skills due to all the random blinds been thrown around constantly in team fights, it’s incredibly annoying and there’s just no counter for such a thing. Blind is such a powerful condition, much more than it’s been given credit for, it should not be anywhere near as abundant.

It’s a lot like Weakness in that regard. Super strong but you rarely see it mentioned cause few have ready access to it. I’m actually looking at making some sort of Hybrid Hambow Warrior because Body Blow is actually a really interesting trait.

Yeah, weakness is really powerful too, even more so now that vigor has been nerfed. Both blind and weakness should be applied only under certain circumstances, like with the trait you mentioned or like with Lightning Rod. They shouldn’t be applied passively like with traits such as Blinding Ashes or Weakening Shroud, these are not the kind of conditions that should be spammed around or have a high uptime of.

Blinding Disipation is an entirely different beast. It’s just flat out overpowered and shouldn’t even be a thing on such a slippery and bursty profession with so many other active defenses. Being able to dodge it or not is not the actual problem.

Khenzy.9348:

BurrTheKing.8571:

Khenzy.9348:

I agree. You often miss key skills due to all the random blinds been thrown around constantly in team fights, it’s incredibly annoying and there’s just no counter for such a thing. Blind is such a powerful condition, much more than it’s been given credit for, it should not be anywhere near as abundant.

It’s a lot like Weakness in that regard. Super strong but you rarely see it mentioned cause few have ready access to it. I’m actually looking at making some sort of Hybrid Hambow Warrior because Body Blow is actually a really interesting trait.

Yeah, weakness is really powerful too, even more so now that vigor has been nerfed. Both blind and weakness should be applied only under certain circumstances, like with the trait you mentioned or like with Lightning Rod. They shouldn’t be applied passively like with traits such as Blinding Ashes or Weakening Shroud, these are not the kind of conditions that should be spammed around or have a high uptime of.

Blinding Disipation is an entirely different beast. It’s just flat out overpowered and shouldn’t even be a thing on such a slippery and bursty profession with so many other active defenses. Being able to dodge it or not is not the actual problem.

I do agree that Mes didn’t need that blind, the problem is that it’s probably not going anywhere. If it was blockable/evadeable/dodgeable and had like a 10 second ICD it probably wouldn’t be too bad though. To a Mes 10 might sound high, but let’s not forget that there’s 4 skills that can trigger it.

If you’re interested here’s a silly Weakness gimmick build I’m messing around with for fun. The Rata Sum rune is a bit much but there’s no other way that I know of to get the duration up to 4 seconds. There’s so much condi removal that I feel like the duration is needed to make it good. There’s also the ever-annoying fact that Merciless Hammer is competing with Burst Mastery. I can’t decide which one is actually better. I’m using MH because without it the CD on the hammer skills seem so obnoxiously long.

@Grimreaper.5370 I thought about that to. It’s an interesting concept but also a potentially high-labor one as well.

BurrTheKing.8571:

Khenzy.9348:

BurrTheKing.8571:

Khenzy.9348:

I agree. You often miss key skills due to all the random blinds been thrown around constantly in team fights, it’s incredibly annoying and there’s just no counter for such a thing. Blind is such a powerful condition, much more than it’s been given credit for, it should not be anywhere near as abundant.

It’s a lot like Weakness in that regard. Super strong but you rarely see it mentioned cause few have ready access to it. I’m actually looking at making some sort of Hybrid Hambow Warrior because Body Blow is actually a really interesting trait.

Yeah, weakness is really powerful too, even more so now that vigor has been nerfed. Both blind and weakness should be applied only under certain circumstances, like with the trait you mentioned or like with Lightning Rod. They shouldn’t be applied passively like with traits such as Blinding Ashes or Weakening Shroud, these are not the kind of conditions that should be spammed around or have a high uptime of.

Blinding Disipation is an entirely different beast. It’s just flat out overpowered and shouldn’t even be a thing on such a slippery and bursty profession with so many other active defenses. Being able to dodge it or not is not the actual problem.

I do agree that Mes didn’t need that blind, the problem is that it’s probably not going anywhere. If it was blockable/evadeable/dodgeable and had like a 10 second ICD it probably wouldn’t be too bad though. To a Mes 10 might sound high, but let’s not forget that there’s 4 skills that can trigger it.

If you’re interested here’s a silly Weakness gimmick build I’m messing around with for fun. The Rata Sum rune is a bit much but there’s no other way that I know of to get the duration up to 4 seconds. There’s so much condi removal that I feel like the duration is needed to make it good. There’s also the ever-annoying fact that Merciless Hammer is competing with Burst Mastery. I can’t decide which one is actually better. I’m using MH because without it the CD on the hammer skills seem so obnoxiously long.

@Grimreaper.5370 I thought about that to. It’s an interesting concept but also a potentially high-labor one as well.

We are getting offtopic in your own thread! But well… I’d change it to something like this: http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vJAQJASTjMdQZHWFCmhApIGICMsF8CGBWA4D2z0vw0LGA-TpBHwAAeAACOEAJLDE4IAM4CAIb/BA

Sigil of Debility plus Rata Sum Runes are kind of a wase if all you want is to raise up a single second on Body Blow or Cull the Weak which both don’t even have ICDs. As long as you land your stuns and hammer 2, your foe should have near perma weakness anyways. I changed celestial amulet with Carrion, otherwise I think your damage would be on the low side. Rune of Vampirism with such low armor and lack of disengage is kind of a must have. You could try Sigil of Impact or even Paralyzation over Intelligence.
Burst mastery is there to promote might stacking with F1s, it should be up to you.

Still, don’t get your hopes up with warrior builds, this profession is a ‘one skill wonder’ right now (rampage), outside of the elite, warriors are kind of underwhelming.

The effect of Blind should have an automatic balancing measure in the form of a cumulative resistance with a cooldown. You trigger blind once, nothing happens, you trigger it again, and again, and after enough blidns within enough short time, you won’t trigger it again for a while. So instead spamming blind blindly working, it’ll work better when used strategically against key skills.

If you go adjusting skills are over the palce things may change later. Create an automatic balance measure, and it will work with anything.

What is teef? A teen reef?

Khenzy.9348:

BurrTheKing.8571:

Khenzy.9348:

BurrTheKing.8571:

Khenzy.9348:

I agree. You often miss key skills due to all the random blinds been thrown around constantly in team fights, it’s incredibly annoying and there’s just no counter for such a thing. Blind is such a powerful condition, much more than it’s been given credit for, it should not be anywhere near as abundant.

It’s a lot like Weakness in that regard. Super strong but you rarely see it mentioned cause few have ready access to it. I’m actually looking at making some sort of Hybrid Hambow Warrior because Body Blow is actually a really interesting trait.

Yeah, weakness is really powerful too, even more so now that vigor has been nerfed. Both blind and weakness should be applied only under certain circumstances, like with the trait you mentioned or like with Lightning Rod. They shouldn’t be applied passively like with traits such as Blinding Ashes or Weakening Shroud, these are not the kind of conditions that should be spammed around or have a high uptime of.

Blinding Disipation is an entirely different beast. It’s just flat out overpowered and shouldn’t even be a thing on such a slippery and bursty profession with so many other active defenses. Being able to dodge it or not is not the actual problem.

I do agree that Mes didn’t need that blind, the problem is that it’s probably not going anywhere. If it was blockable/evadeable/dodgeable and had like a 10 second ICD it probably wouldn’t be too bad though. To a Mes 10 might sound high, but let’s not forget that there’s 4 skills that can trigger it.

If you’re interested here’s a silly Weakness gimmick build I’m messing around with for fun. The Rata Sum rune is a bit much but there’s no other way that I know of to get the duration up to 4 seconds. There’s so much condi removal that I feel like the duration is needed to make it good. There’s also the ever-annoying fact that Merciless Hammer is competing with Burst Mastery. I can’t decide which one is actually better. I’m using MH because without it the CD on the hammer skills seem so obnoxiously long.

@Grimreaper.5370 I thought about that to. It’s an interesting concept but also a potentially high-labor one as well.

We are getting offtopic in your own thread! But well… I’d change it to something like this: http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vJAQJASTjMdQZHWFCmhApIGICMsF8CGBWA4D2z0vw0LGA-TpBHwAAeAACOEAJLDE4IAM4CAIb/BA

Sigil of Debility plus Rata Sum Runes are kind of a wase if all you want is to raise up a single second on Body Blow or Cull the Weak which both don’t even have ICDs. As long as you land your stuns and hammer 2, your foe should have near perma weakness anyways. I changed celestial amulet with Carrion, otherwise I think your damage would be on the low side. Rune of Vampirism with such low armor and lack of disengage is kind of a must have. You could try Sigil of Impact or even Paralyzation over Intelligence.
Burst mastery is there to promote might stacking with F1s, it should be up to you.

Still, don’t get your hopes up with warrior builds, this profession is a ‘one skill wonder’ right now (rampage), outside of the elite, warriors are kind of underwhelming.

Yah, that’s what I would run if I wanted to be “viable” but I like to go all the way into my gimmicks, mostly cause even on a “viable” version the build won’t be amazing till you can use both Merciless Hammer and Burst Mastery.

I do Agree with OP in most points. We have had blind for so long and it has been fine so don’t touch the condition but remove the amount of blindness that has been introduced now.

shadowshot is blockable/dodgable… fyi

Probably the same weird obsession of people calling Thieves, “Teefs”.

Cynz.9437:

shadowshot is blockable/dodgable… fyi

So yah, about that unblockable bit.

@phokus.8934 Last I checked, even Teefs call Teefs Teef.

BurrTheKing.8571:

Cynz.9437:

shadowshot is blockable/dodgable… fyi

So yah, about that unblockable bit.

@phokus.8934 Last I checked, even Teefs call Teefs Teef.

teleport is unblockable, blind/dmg portion is blockable…
do you even play this game?

ASP.8093:

BD needs a fix. I’m pretty sure it’s just an outright bug.

It isn’t a bug. I haven’t tested all the AoE blinds available but I know several blinds go through evade. If they overhaul blinding dissipation they need to fix other blinds too. Part of the problem with the forums is that many of you are focused in the wrong direction, 1 thing gets spread around as truth and everyone latches onto it. You shouldn’t be complaining that it can’t be blocked or dodged, it’s the frequency of the blinds that is important. Another issue is that mesmers never had this powerful trait in the past, it’s something new to complain about. People aren’t screaming about thief blinds being undodgeable, thief always had good blind uptime so no one seems to notice.

As a side note why would you want to block the blind on shatter over the shatter itself? If a mesmer goes for f1/f2/f3 I’d much rather block the incoming shatter/clones than the blind. The only time you want to block the blind is if you’re using a skill that blocks for X seconds instead of X attacks.

data.4093:

ASP.8093:

BD needs a fix. I’m pretty sure it’s just an outright bug.

It isn’t a bug. I haven’t tested all the AoE blinds available but I know several blinds go through evade. If they overhaul blinding dissipation they need to fix other blinds too. Part of the problem with the forums is that many of you are focused in the wrong direction, 1 thing gets spread around as truth and everyone latches onto it. You shouldn’t be complaining that it can’t be blocked or dodged, it’s the frequency of the blinds that is important. Another issue is that mesmers never had this powerful trait in the past, it’s something new to complain about. People aren’t screaming about thief blinds being undodgeable, thief always had good blind uptime so no one seems to notice.

As a side note why would you want to block the blind on shatter over the shatter itself? If a mesmer goes for f1/f2/f3 I’d much rather block the incoming shatter/clones than the blind. The only time you want to block the blind is if you’re using a skill that blocks for X seconds instead of X attacks.

I don’t like that it goes through dodge because it makes it that much harder to counter-attack after a failed shatter.

You’re right that being a separate proc makes it kinda ugly for one-shot block effects, though. I’d assume just triggering right “after” the actual shatter would address that. Or making the trait actually modify the shatter effect coming out of the mesmer herself (the “IP” part of the shatter) directly.

Burr complaining again I see.

Lemme help you out…..zerker stance > rampage

There now let’s drop the subject

Cynz.9437:

BurrTheKing.8571:

Cynz.9437:

shadowshot is blockable/dodgable… fyi

So yah, about that unblockable bit.

@phokus.8934 Last I checked, even Teefs call Teefs Teef.

teleport is unblockable, blind/dmg portion is blockable…
do you even play this game?

Wrong. I just spent several hours the other day dueling a D/P Teef, the blind went through every block. What I DID block was the damage.

As far as I understand, the skill was split into two separate attacks. One is the attack that causes you to teleport/blind, the other does damage. The Teleblind is unblockable/reflectable because at one time it was possible for the one to reflect the whole skill which would have THEM to shadowstep to the user.

Also to the other guy…you do realize that I play EVERY class right? Before I didn’t have an Ele but now I do. I haven’t MASTERED every class but that’s because I don’t enjoy all of them. At the very least though I have a good grasp of most classes mechanics and traits. Also, any Teef with a brain will just break away as soon as they see that Rampage, which isn’t hard to do.

I’m actually considering swapping to Guardian main because they have generally been consistently a part of every modes meta since launch.

Idk about you or what you play or what you “mastered”, i just know that blinds got blocked whenever i used shadowshot on blocking enemy.

Cynz.9437:

Idk about you or what you play or what you “mastered”, i just know that blinds got blocked whenever i used shadowshot on blocking enemy.

I don’t even know how to respond to you…it’s right there in the tooltip that the shot is unblockable. What is blockable (I believe, teef attacks are so fast it can be hard to tell) is the followup hit. The change probably only happened because when, like I said, the shot was blockable you could have someone with reflect be pulled. You also used to be able to reflect a Mesmer projectile (Scepter AA I believe) that created a clone and a non-Mesmer could have a clone from it. I’m not sure if you can still do that or not. You can also currently reflect Hunter’s Shot and gain the stealth from it.

The fix with Shadow shot was changed to unblockable to avoid the above from happening.

The blind is unblockable because it’s attached to the shot itself which also includes the teleport. When it wasn’t unblockable, if you fired it into a reflect it shadowstepped your target to you (if you didn’t dodge your reflected shot). It is still dodgeable though and there are skills on professions that make you immune to blinds or conditions in general. If a blind prevents you from landing an attack or attacking so you don’t waste an attack it’s working as intended. The only blind that seems like it’s not is the mesmer one that goes through dodges.

Edit: I guess I just repeated what Burr said

I want to point out that I never stated that Shadow Shot was unblockable.

Maugetarr.6823:

The blind is unblockable because it’s attached to the shot itself which also includes the teleport. When it wasn’t unblockable, if you fired it into a reflect it shadowstepped your target to you (if you didn’t dodge your reflected shot). It is still dodgeable though and there are skills on professions that make you immune to blinds or conditions in general. If a blind prevents you from landing an attack or attacking so you don’t waste an attack it’s working as intended. The only blind that seems like it’s not is the mesmer one that goes through dodges.

I wanna ask, how do you dodge something that is instant (referring to mesmers shatter)

People pushing the dodges changes do not know anything. The dodge bug is the least of the problems when it comes of the issue of blinds.

StickerHappy.8052:

Maugetarr.6823:

The blind is unblockable because it’s attached to the shot itself which also includes the teleport. When it wasn’t unblockable, if you fired it into a reflect it shadowstepped your target to you (if you didn’t dodge your reflected shot). It is still dodgeable though and there are skills on professions that make you immune to blinds or conditions in general. If a blind prevents you from landing an attack or attacking so you don’t waste an attack it’s working as intended. The only blind that seems like it’s not is the mesmer one that goes through dodges.

I wanna ask, how do you dodge something that is instant (referring to mesmers shatter)

People pushing the dodges changes do not know anything. The dodge bug is the least of the problems when it comes of the issue of blinds.

If you’re in the face of the mesmer you can only predict it (much like dodging a thief steal or ele S/X lightning strike/blinding flash). If you’re not within range, the clones have to run at you first after seeing the mesmer shatter animation, so you should be able to dodge (or correct me if I’m wrong on where the blind comes from). It probably should be blockable as well since as far as I can tell it’s just an extra effect tacked on to shatters (like confusion or vuln).

Maugetarr.6823:

StickerHappy.8052:

Maugetarr.6823:

The blind is unblockable because it’s attached to the shot itself which also includes the teleport. When it wasn’t unblockable, if you fired it into a reflect it shadowstepped your target to you (if you didn’t dodge your reflected shot). It is still dodgeable though and there are skills on professions that make you immune to blinds or conditions in general. If a blind prevents you from landing an attack or attacking so you don’t waste an attack it’s working as intended. The only blind that seems like it’s not is the mesmer one that goes through dodges.

I wanna ask, how do you dodge something that is instant (referring to mesmers shatter)

People pushing the dodges changes do not know anything. The dodge bug is the least of the problems when it comes of the issue of blinds.

If you’re in the face of the mesmer you can only predict it (much like dodging a thief steal or ele S/X lightning strike/blinding flash). If you’re not within range, the clones have to run at you first after seeing the mesmer shatter animation, so you should be able to dodge (or correct me if I’m wrong on where the blind comes from). It probably should be blockable as well since as far as I can tell it’s just an extra effect tacked on to shatters (like confusion or vuln).

Blind is only around the mesmer, so I think people pushing for the make BD dodgeable are…fixing it won’t change anything.

StickerHappy.8052:

Maugetarr.6823:

StickerHappy.8052:

Maugetarr.6823:

The blind is unblockable because it’s attached to the shot itself which also includes the teleport. When it wasn’t unblockable, if you fired it into a reflect it shadowstepped your target to you (if you didn’t dodge your reflected shot). It is still dodgeable though and there are skills on professions that make you immune to blinds or conditions in general. If a blind prevents you from landing an attack or attacking so you don’t waste an attack it’s working as intended. The only blind that seems like it’s not is the mesmer one that goes through dodges.

I wanna ask, how do you dodge something that is instant (referring to mesmers shatter)

People pushing the dodges changes do not know anything. The dodge bug is the least of the problems when it comes of the issue of blinds.

If you’re in the face of the mesmer you can only predict it (much like dodging a thief steal or ele S/X lightning strike/blinding flash). If you’re not within range, the clones have to run at you first after seeing the mesmer shatter animation, so you should be able to dodge (or correct me if I’m wrong on where the blind comes from). It probably should be blockable as well since as far as I can tell it’s just an extra effect tacked on to shatters (like confusion or vuln).

Blind is only around the mesmer, so I think people pushing for the make BD dodgeable are…fixing it won’t change anything.

It appears you are correct. I thought that it was attached in the same way. Perhaps making it blockable/dodgeable would be enough as it would be the same as any other shatter effect.

StickerHappy.8052:

Maugetarr.6823:

StickerHappy.8052:

Maugetarr.6823:

The blind is unblockable because it’s attached to the shot itself which also includes the teleport. When it wasn’t unblockable, if you fired it into a reflect it shadowstepped your target to you (if you didn’t dodge your reflected shot). It is still dodgeable though and there are skills on professions that make you immune to blinds or conditions in general. If a blind prevents you from landing an attack or attacking so you don’t waste an attack it’s working as intended. The only blind that seems like it’s not is the mesmer one that goes through dodges.

I wanna ask, how do you dodge something that is instant (referring to mesmers shatter)

People pushing the dodges changes do not know anything. The dodge bug is the least of the problems when it comes of the issue of blinds.

If you’re in the face of the mesmer you can only predict it (much like dodging a thief steal or ele S/X lightning strike/blinding flash). If you’re not within range, the clones have to run at you first after seeing the mesmer shatter animation, so you should be able to dodge (or correct me if I’m wrong on where the blind comes from). It probably should be blockable as well since as far as I can tell it’s just an extra effect tacked on to shatters (like confusion or vuln).

Blind is only around the mesmer, so I think people pushing for the make BD dodgeable are…fixing it won’t change anything.

The blind allows Mesmer to use a shatter like their F2 that is normally not that commonly used on power builds except for boon stripping to use the shatter defensively. You could also make a 2 second distortion more like 3 seconds if you don’t want to use a condi cleanse on the blind because the next attack is going to miss because you can’t cleanse a blind on a invulnerable foe.

Also, the fact that something uncounterable exists in the game just shouldn’t be allowed. Right now, most things have SOME sort of counter. Even with skills like Berserker Stance the obvious counterplay is to not use your conditions during the Stance, or to load up the condis before they activate the stance. Even Stealth now has a few more ways to counter it (although I feel like every class needs a skill that reveals).

Having something that is not dodgeable in a game where dodge is supposed to counter everything is just not OK. And yes, it is possible to predict shatter while being close and you should be rewarded for avoiding it by being able to capitalize on it. However, depending on your class/build that 1 little blind can throw off your entire combo.

People seem to also be forgetting that the Mesmer is typically going to be using themselves in their shatters which means their in range to blind. Stop saying that it only procs on the Mes like that makes it weaker somehow.

Maugetarr.6823:

StickerHappy.8052:

Maugetarr.6823:

StickerHappy.8052:

Maugetarr.6823:

The blind is unblockable because it’s attached to the shot itself which also includes the teleport. When it wasn’t unblockable, if you fired it into a reflect it shadowstepped your target to you (if you didn’t dodge your reflected shot). It is still dodgeable though and there are skills on professions that make you immune to blinds or conditions in general. If a blind prevents you from landing an attack or attacking so you don’t waste an attack it’s working as intended. The only blind that seems like it’s not is the mesmer one that goes through dodges.

I wanna ask, how do you dodge something that is instant (referring to mesmers shatter)

People pushing the dodges changes do not know anything. The dodge bug is the least of the problems when it comes of the issue of blinds.

If you’re in the face of the mesmer you can only predict it (much like dodging a thief steal or ele S/X lightning strike/blinding flash). If you’re not within range, the clones have to run at you first after seeing the mesmer shatter animation, so you should be able to dodge (or correct me if I’m wrong on where the blind comes from). It probably should be blockable as well since as far as I can tell it’s just an extra effect tacked on to shatters (like confusion or vuln).

Blind is only around the mesmer, so I think people pushing for the make BD dodgeable are…fixing it won’t change anything.

It appears you are correct. I thought that it was attached in the same way. Perhaps making it blockable/dodgeable would be enough as it would be the same as any other shatter effect.

nah, the verdict still stands, there still would not be any counterplay excpet for random dodging.

There’s a reason Shadowshot was made unblockable. There used to be no counterplay to using Shadowshot on reflecting enemies. Mesmers with reflect on distortion, guardian walls (yes, people used to use the reflect wall), and anything else with reflect would cause Shadowshot to reflect back to the Thief, teleporting the enemy to them – away from their team – and interrupting any cast they were using forcing them to attempt to cast the strike portion of the ability. You could cancel heals through distort, move people 900 range out of position into your team, etc. There was no counterplay to it and they fixed it in the only way that the game engine allows. The blind/port is unblockable but the strike is still a blockable ability.

StickerHappy.8052:

Maugetarr.6823:

StickerHappy.8052:

Maugetarr.6823:

StickerHappy.8052:

Maugetarr.6823:

The blind is unblockable because it’s attached to the shot itself which also includes the teleport. When it wasn’t unblockable, if you fired it into a reflect it shadowstepped your target to you (if you didn’t dodge your reflected shot). It is still dodgeable though and there are skills on professions that make you immune to blinds or conditions in general. If a blind prevents you from landing an attack or attacking so you don’t waste an attack it’s working as intended. The only blind that seems like it’s not is the mesmer one that goes through dodges.

I wanna ask, how do you dodge something that is instant (referring to mesmers shatter)

People pushing the dodges changes do not know anything. The dodge bug is the least of the problems when it comes of the issue of blinds.

If you’re in the face of the mesmer you can only predict it (much like dodging a thief steal or ele S/X lightning strike/blinding flash). If you’re not within range, the clones have to run at you first after seeing the mesmer shatter animation, so you should be able to dodge (or correct me if I’m wrong on where the blind comes from). It probably should be blockable as well since as far as I can tell it’s just an extra effect tacked on to shatters (like confusion or vuln).

Blind is only around the mesmer, so I think people pushing for the make BD dodgeable are…fixing it won’t change anything.

It appears you are correct. I thought that it was attached in the same way. Perhaps making it blockable/dodgeable would be enough as it would be the same as any other shatter effect.

nah, the verdict still stands, there still would not be any counterplay excpet for random dodging.

Honestly, the game would probably be better off if there were less insta-cast skills in the game. Even a small audio cue 1/4th second before the attack would be good enough to counter it. Why is it that classes like Warrior, Guard, Ranger, Ele, Necro,and often Engi all have some sort of tell on the majority of their skills but now Mes/Teef can very easily camp stealth and set up spikes with no obvious tell?

Even if all they did was make a few insta-cast abilities 1/4th second cast and have them play some sort of sound as you activate it would be good enough for many players. Prediction was all well and good with Mesmers until they buffed PU.

Narcarsis.5739:

There’s a reason Shadowshot was made unblockable. There used to be no counterplay to using Shadowshot on reflecting enemies. Mesmers with reflect on distortion, guardian walls (yes, people used to use the reflect wall), and anything else with reflect would cause Shadowshot to reflect back to the Thief, teleporting the enemy to them – away from their team – and interrupting any cast they were using forcing them to attempt to cast the strike portion of the ability. You could cancel heals through distort, move people 900 range out of position into your team, etc. There was no counterplay to it and they fixed it in the only way that the game engine allows. The blind/port is unblockable but the strike is still a blockable ability.

The more obvious solution is to make the order of the attacks different:

1. Trigger the unblockable teleport projectile that deals no damage.

2: Trigger the blockable blind and strike that are now the same attack.

This means that you avoid the potential reverse-pull but also allow players to counter the blind.

EDIT: Or if possible just make the reverse pull not happen if it’s reflected and just have it blind/damage the teef instead.

BurrTheKing.8571:

The more obvious solution is to make the order of the attacks different:

1. Trigger the unblockable teleport projectile that deals no damage.

2: Trigger the blockable blind and strike that are now the same attack.

This means that you avoid the potential reverse-pull but also allow players to counter the blind.

EDIT: Or if possible just make the reverse pull not happen if it’s reflected and just have it blind/damage the teef instead.

Your second suggestion is the only one that would work, as the teleport and blind are currently tied together. Same goes with the edit – reflect and block fall under the same category in the game engine.

In my opinion if you tie the blind to the strike it won’t change much of anything, you’ll likely still complain about blinds. There are ways to force people out of blocks or negate the affects. Aegis is easy to remove and certain abilities can stun/interrupt through block (Choking Gas + Basilisk Venom, Warrior Signet, Necro Fear Mark, Guardian GS pull, etc). Unblockable abilities add counterplay to the plethora of blocks in the game – removing them only increase the strength of things like Gear Shield, Aegis, Shelter, etc. The things broken at the moment are those that are un-dodgeable (Taunt, Blinding Dissipation). Nothing should be un-dodgeable/un-invulnerable.

Narcarsis.5739:

BurrTheKing.8571:

The more obvious solution is to make the order of the attacks different:

1. Trigger the unblockable teleport projectile that deals no damage.

2: Trigger the blockable blind and strike that are now the same attack.

This means that you avoid the potential reverse-pull but also allow players to counter the blind.

EDIT: Or if possible just make the reverse pull not happen if it’s reflected and just have it blind/damage the teef instead.

Your second suggestion is the only one that would work, as the teleport and blind are currently tied together. Same goes with the edit – reflect and block fall under the same category in the game engine.

In my opinion if you tie the blind to the strike it won’t change much of anything, you’ll likely still complain about blinds. There are ways to force people out of blocks or negate the affects. Aegis is easy to remove and certain abilities can stun/interrupt through block (Choking Gas + Basilisk Venom, Warrior Signet, Necro Fear Mark, Guardian GS pull, etc). Unblockable abilities add counterplay to the plethora of blocks in the game – removing them only increase the strength of things like Gear Shield, Aegis, Shelter, etc. The things broken at the moment are those that are un-dodgeable (Taunt, Blinding Dissipation). Nothing should be un-dodgeable/un-invulnerable.

Most unblockable skill in this game are from utilities or trait, they are also fairly rare. Having access to a skill that is unblockable just because the devs needed an easy solution to the reflect issue isn’t a good enough reason for it to be a basic attack skill imo. Having Shadow Shot being unblockable isn’t keeping blocks from being the be-all-end-all. It also makes it laughably easy for a Teef to stay in melee range and makes kiting them more difficult than it used to be.

Kiting a Thief shouldn’t be easy. They have no ranged pressure and mobility is the strength of a Thief to begin with. Thieves pressure is from melee, they have little defence in the ways of stats/boons (no source of protection) which is the reason that they have access to blind to begin with. If you want to kite then dodge the Shadowshot, it’s easy to see. Unblockable is a lesser of two evils, when the alternative is a 900 range instant pull that has no counter and forces an interrupt.

As I said earlier the only suggestion that would work is moving the blind to the strike, and that wouldn’t change much of anything. You can break Aegis easily and since you can’t seem to manage blinds now I highly doubt anything will change for you.

TL;DR: It’s a learn to play issue.

As for the “used to be” that was changed over 2 years ago. So I doubt you’re really referencing something that was changed before most thieves even ran the weapon set.

Edit: Grammar is hard when you’re on a phone.

BurrTheKing.8571:

Narcarsis.5739:

BurrTheKing.8571:

The more obvious solution is to make the order of the attacks different:

1. Trigger the unblockable teleport projectile that deals no damage.

2: Trigger the blockable blind and strike that are now the same attack.

This means that you avoid the potential reverse-pull but also allow players to counter the blind.

EDIT: Or if possible just make the reverse pull not happen if it’s reflected and just have it blind/damage the teef instead.

Your second suggestion is the only one that would work, as the teleport and blind are currently tied together. Same goes with the edit – reflect and block fall under the same category in the game engine.

In my opinion if you tie the blind to the strike it won’t change much of anything, you’ll likely still complain about blinds. There are ways to force people out of blocks or negate the affects. Aegis is easy to remove and certain abilities can stun/interrupt through block (Choking Gas + Basilisk Venom, Warrior Signet, Necro Fear Mark, Guardian GS pull, etc). Unblockable abilities add counterplay to the plethora of blocks in the game – removing them only increase the strength of things like Gear Shield, Aegis, Shelter, etc. The things broken at the moment are those that are un-dodgeable (Taunt, Blinding Dissipation). Nothing should be un-dodgeable/un-invulnerable.

Most unblockable skill in this game are from utilities or trait, they are also fairly rare. Having access to a skill that is unblockable just because the devs needed an easy solution to the reflect issue isn’t a good enough reason for it to be a basic attack skill imo. Having Shadow Shot being unblockable isn’t keeping blocks from being the be-all-end-all. It also makes it laughably easy for a Teef to stay in melee range and makes kiting them more difficult than it used to be.

Like I said Zerker Stance and Rampage your way to victory b/c obviously anything that requires you to problem solve is an impossible hurdle.

You are the reason that Anet puts low skill classes builds into this game. Please realize that while you do have an opinion on this public forum yours is disregarded in anything talking balance.

I hope you have a wonderful day and I’m sorry for telling you the truth.

T raw.4658:

BurrTheKing.8571:

Narcarsis.5739:

BurrTheKing.8571:

The more obvious solution is to make the order of the attacks different:

1. Trigger the unblockable teleport projectile that deals no damage.

2: Trigger the blockable blind and strike that are now the same attack.

This means that you avoid the potential reverse-pull but also allow players to counter the blind.

EDIT: Or if possible just make the reverse pull not happen if it’s reflected and just have it blind/damage the teef instead.

Your second suggestion is the only one that would work, as the teleport and blind are currently tied together. Same goes with the edit – reflect and block fall under the same category in the game engine.

In my opinion if you tie the blind to the strike it won’t change much of anything, you’ll likely still complain about blinds. There are ways to force people out of blocks or negate the affects. Aegis is easy to remove and certain abilities can stun/interrupt through block (Choking Gas + Basilisk Venom, Warrior Signet, Necro Fear Mark, Guardian GS pull, etc). Unblockable abilities add counterplay to the plethora of blocks in the game – removing them only increase the strength of things like Gear Shield, Aegis, Shelter, etc. The things broken at the moment are those that are un-dodgeable (Taunt, Blinding Dissipation). Nothing should be un-dodgeable/un-invulnerable.

Most unblockable skill in this game are from utilities or trait, they are also fairly rare. Having access to a skill that is unblockable just because the devs needed an easy solution to the reflect issue isn’t a good enough reason for it to be a basic attack skill imo. Having Shadow Shot being unblockable isn’t keeping blocks from being the be-all-end-all. It also makes it laughably easy for a Teef to stay in melee range and makes kiting them more difficult than it used to be.

Like I said Zerker Stance and Rampage your way to victory b/c obviously anything that requires you to problem solve is an impossible hurdle.

You are the reason that Anet puts low skill classes builds into this game. Please realize that while you do have an opinion on this public forum yours is disregarded in anything talking balance.

I hope you have a wonderful day and I’m sorry for telling you the truth.

Like i told you, I’m talking from the perspective of someone who plays basically every class. I’m not talking about it from a Warrior standpoint or any other class specifically.

I actually spent over an hour in WvW dueling a good D/P teef with the build in my sig while they had food/buffs and I did not and I probably won 70% of the fights. I was also using Defiant Stance for many of them which wasn’t really optimal most of the time. It’s basically about playing defensive and getting them to use their steal/stunbreak then doing a Frenzy + Skullcrack + 100b and it’s basically game over. That being said some fights dragged on when they just repeatedly used Shadow Shot from stealth and those were the fights that they generally ended up winning. Oh, and I had Rampage equipped for a good # of fights but never used, did eventually bring the signet.

If you properly abuse stealth and blinds, there’s few fights that a Mes or Teef stand to lose. When I beat either, on any class, it’s because they got too greedy or made a mistake.

Shadow shot is fine has 4cd initiative cost and only the projectile part is unblockable.

Blinding ashes has too low cd

Blinding Dissipation needs to be fixed the undodgable thing and it requires a little icd.

In general blind mechanic is fine as it is.

Blinding Dissipation is quite okay as it is. Does not need an ICD, since the shatters that trigger it have relatively long cooldowns already.

I see blind duration on other classes as an issue, but a thief uses it as it’s core ability. Simple things in the game give classes uniqueness, a mesmer has invis/shatters, a thief has invis/blinds, a guard has durability and heals, etc… if you take away these blinding issues on a thief (most of your points were directed) then you nerf thief and we’ve already seen today in the ESL how good 2 mesmers work if you want to run that. So I don’t think these nerfs need to happen on thief.

That being said, having mesmer/thief/guard/ele all having immense amounts of blinds and 3/4 being used for most games in tPvP i can understand the frustration.

Keep in mind what will happen to meta if these blind nerfs happen too (that you suggested)

Thieves would potentially leave meta as their secured stomps and blinds against very strong ranged classes would be gone.
Mesmers would be completely idiotic not to run, they would have maybe 1 class to fear?
Ele’s would go to earth, and I know how much QQing is going on with fire ele’s but i would 100% rather fight a fire ele than an earth ele. THEY DIE SO FAST.

The point I’m trying to make clear is that it’s 1 ranged auto attack that you’re being asked to land on anyone on the battlefield, a mesmer clone, a necro minion, literally anything. It’s not hard to do.

I’m totally fine if teef receives buffs in other areas in exchange for a reduction of blind spam. Also, it’s not like teef can’t just go stealth for the stomp.

There might be a bit too much blind spam overall, but I think mesmers are a seperate issue at the moment and is mainly a problem for classes without good range pressure or constent AoE strikes. For example: the mesmer blinds on shatter > the clones go away > you can’t use clones to remove blind anymore > the mesmer kites you to kitten because the blind lasts the full 3 seconds. It’s also a core problem with classes like warrior who are extremely vulnerable to kiting when Berserker Stance is down or you’re not running longbow.

Once they fix the Blinding Dissipation undodgeable bullkitten, then we’ll really see if blinds are really that big of an issue.

BurrTheKing.8571:

I’m totally fine if teef receives buffs in other areas in exchange for a reduction of blind spam. Also, it’s not like teef can’t just go stealth for the stomp.

This is why your opinion on balance is disregarded.

This is a core ability of a thief that you are wanting to nerf. There are no blocks/invulns/stability/etc. on thieves. You got blinds, stealth, and a severely nerfed evasion build. To compensate thieves for your “opinion” you need to totally rework the class….which ain’t kittening happening. This would leave you will a even more broken class which has been your goal for a long time in regards to thieves.

The only thing that needs to happen to blinds in this game is the removal of it from Eles/Mesmers.

T raw.4658:

BurrTheKing.8571:

I’m totally fine if teef receives buffs in other areas in exchange for a reduction of blind spam. Also, it’s not like teef can’t just go stealth for the stomp.

This is why your opinion on balance is disregarded.

This is a core ability of a thief that you are wanting to nerf. There are no blocks/invulns/stability/etc. on thieves. You got blinds, stealth, and a severely nerfed evasion build. To compensate thieves for your “opinion” you need to totally rework the class….which ain’t kittening happening. This would leave you will a even more broken class which has been your goal for a long time in regards to thieves.

The only thing that needs to happen to blinds in this game is the removal of it from Eles/Mesmers.

Makes no difference to me, I generally just need one combo to kill D/P anyways.

Also, players said that it would take a total overhaul to make Warrior viable…it took 2 trait changes and 2 trait moves.