Guild Wars 2

Just an open thread here on meta discussion. I am curious what exactly makes a build meta. I was unaware of the medi guard, and was reading on Metabattle, and was like, ‘hmm this seems funner than my boring bunker.’

Then I picked it up and really enjoyed it. Later on I find out that prior to Tage at ESL, that the medi guard was not in the meta until he showed up in ESL and did very well with it (this may not be the case but it is how I understand it to be from chat).

So what makes a meta build then? Is it just whatever FoTM a top tier player is running with?

On a side note, I am praying that Rev forces professions to reconsider Meta. Whenever I am watching tourney vids, even the announcers tend to act blahzay over everyone’s build because, well, they are all the same. Very little variety. Maybe Rev and the new profession specializations will change this, but is it just going to change to one new uber build per class where we will simply be where we currently are. 1-2 builds that are viable at the highest level of play.

Thoughts?

Team which wins a major tournament creates the meta because everyone and their grandmother copy-pastes everything that wins. If someone beat oRNG tomorrow in some tournanent with 5 Beastmastery Rangers, 5xBeastmaster Ranger would be the new meta. Doesn’t matter that they won by better rotation, for example.

Meta is the other word for “FotM”.

Shifts in meta usually happen to either counter the previous meta or overcome weaknesses of the previous meta. For example, the condi meta some time ago was the reason why there’s so much condition cleanse in every comp to the point that condition-reliant compositions are no longer effective. DPS guards are steadily replacing mesmers in the meta to overcome the mesmer’s weakness to thieves.

meta just means the most ‘populair’ build, the ‘meta build’
Pro’s ussually instigate meta by playing a build and showing off its strenghts when fighting to be the best. People copy those builds in vast amounts, then they get shared all over the web and it becomes ‘populair’ Hence meta.

Meta builds are just builds that are like the top performance possible for a single character based on others. Like for example Celestial Rifle engineers probably do overall better (with some kind of percentile) than a zerker static discharge one. This does not mean that the static discharge is bad, It’s still very strong and viable in the hands of a skilled player BUT celestial engineer offers more healing/aoe damage/tankiness with similar if not at least 90% of the damage static discharge can do to a single target.

I believe meta builds are the easiest to play for the highest effect. For example, we all hate that skilled power necro in a team fight because if the team performs well we got curb stomped by 7k auto attacks from lich form. Power necro is not on the list of meta builds though but that doesn’t stop it from being effective. It would probably reach metahood if it was a tad bit tankier(easier)

I agree I hope the specializations and everything coming causes some build diversity on the meta super serious field.

well a meta build is a build that excels in the current meta environment…this means that as the builds change so does the meta…for example bunker guardians were a thing in the past but as DPS increased overall so the role of the guardian changed accordingly to the meditation guardian with great sword. After the celestial elementalist BOOM hammer meditation became a better approach due to the chill and cc it provides.

To answer your question a meta build is a build that excels in the current pvp tournament scene. After that a meta build can become popular or not, for instance some meta build’s excel off the tournament scene (dagger dagger ele or celestial warrior) and thus become wide spread in all game modes, some other builds require much better coordination (powermancer, shatter mesmer) thus see less use since it takes a bit more team work to see the advantage they clearly bring.

Some other builds like minion master and turret engineer are really strong off tournaments but at top level aren’t advisable as opponents tend to coordinate spikes, thus although wide spread don´t qualify as meta.

Just my two scents, hope this helps

A meta build is a build for a class widely accepted as “effective” or “extremely effective” in normal battle situations (1v1, +1, vs Counter, Sustainability, condi purging, etc).

Any build that lets you maintain proficiency in pvp without extremely substantial effort can be meta. (not that a build that is not incredibly difficult to play well is a bad thing, because sometimes pvp situations require flexibility.)

Azure The Heartless.3261:

A meta build is a build for a class widely accepted as “effective” or “extremely effective” in normal battle situations (1v1, +1, vs Counter, Sustainability, condi purging, etc).

Any build that lets you maintain proficiency in pvp without extremely substantial effort can be meta. (not that a build that is not incredibly difficult to play well is a bad thing, because sometimes pvp situations require flexibility.)

You’re right to some extend, but not quite. For example, some of the meta builds are among the most exigent for their profession (shatter mesmer, celestial engineer, meditation guardian), and are still meta (or meta-ish for the mesmer).

A meta build is a build that fits a role in the current meta game. Sometimes balance defines the meta (it was the case for Dhummfire necro or spirit ranger), sometimes the change in the play style leads to some builds becoming meta (SD thief a year ago, celestial engineer now).

Let’s take an example: guardians. In the recent past (not talking about condi meta, I wasn’t playing then), guardians have played bunker builds, and provided useful bonuses to their team, for example stability, essential to counter the numerous hambow warriors of that time. Then warriors got nerfed, and people started playing celestial builds, and play with sustainable builds with excellent 1v1 capabilities and good mobility. The paroxysm of that meta was the comp the Abjured play in the WTS finals: 2 cele elementalists, one celestial engineer, one condi necro, and one SD thief. But the meta now seems to be getting back a little to a bunker/roamer kind of comp, but with the “bunker” role being more about healing and cleansing conditions: shout bows, and in some EU teams clerical eles. In this “inter-metas” phase, meditation guardians have the advantages of both worlds: they take down targets fast (RoW and burst potential), but they are also fairly tanky and can contest points in 1v1 for a while. I think that’s an element of answer.

I think any build that can be meta must meet a few key requirements:

It must to survive any 1v1: While many meta builds can be hard-countered in a prolonged 1v1, they all have the ability to survive long enough to get help, or failing that, get away. As an example, thief is pretty hard-countered by medi-guard and engineer, but has the mobility to just gtfo. Engineer in the past was pretty hard-countered by necros in 1v1’s, but the fight would last for a while and the engineer had better mobility to leave. This is why you always see qq’s about thieves – they hard-counter a lot squishy builds 1v1, and nobody can compete with thief mobility. A LOT of builds fail this test.

It has to fill a role: There are a good number of strong builds that do a lot of things well, but don’t really fill any role well. Examples would include perma-stealth thieves and PU mesmers, which are great at fighting. However, these builds have no place in conquest b/c they don’t do enough damage in teamfights, don’t win 1v1’s fast enough, and lose a capture point in a long fight.

It has to be at least on-par with other builds competing for the same role: There are a lot of builds that can play the bruiser role, but nobody can bang bodies as well as a d/d ele, shoutbow warrior, or even cele engie in 1v1’s while also bringing the same tools in a teamfight. For instance, there is a place for both d/d ele and shoutbow because they both have similar effectiveness in many situations, even though the d/d is better at 1v1s while shoutbow is better in large fights.

It can never be useless: There are some builds that excel in certain aspects of a role, but get rendered useless quite quickly. A good example would be a tanky condi ranger: these are potentially the best 1v1 build in the game, and would make a great side-point holder. However, simple strategic shifts can make them useless by forcing teamfights, where the condi ranger is just bad. When compared to a d/d ele, which can 1v1 approximately as well, but is still an asset in teamfights, the choice is clear.

Random Weird Guy.3528:

Shifts in meta usually happen to either counter the previous meta or overcome weaknesses of the previous meta. For example, the condi meta some time ago was the reason why there’s so much condition cleanse in every comp to the point that condition-reliant compositions are no longer effective. DPS guards are steadily replacing mesmers in the meta to overcome the mesmer’s weakness to thieves.

Mesmers have not been in the meta for a while…

Lack of balance + lack of innovation.

rchu.8945:

Random Weird Guy.3528:

Shifts in meta usually happen to either counter the previous meta or overcome weaknesses of the previous meta. For example, the condi meta some time ago was the reason why there’s so much condition cleanse in every comp to the point that condition-reliant compositions are no longer effective. DPS guards are steadily replacing mesmers in the meta to overcome the mesmer’s weakness to thieves.

Mesmers have not been in the meta for a while…

That’s arguable. Sure, they have a lot of weak points (like getting eaten by thieves, for example), but you see a lot of them in EU teams. Portal plays are fun, and often rewarding in conquest, that’s why they survive despite their lack of… well… most things.

I always thought it was the best specs to fill a role.