Guild Wars 2

It’s not matchmaking as much as it’s how certain players handle the comp they’re in, or the comp they’re facing.

Mistake #1, 1v2ing on points…
Players don’t need to 1v2 or 1v3 in every given scenario. That’s called Zerging and it’s very easy to rotate around a Zergy team and get out manned on other points. If you respawn and you see your own Mesmer 1v1ing home, odds are the Mesmer is going to win that 1v1. No need to go there and waste 30s trying to kill a class that’s likely going to die anyways. What you could do is use a couple skills but immediately rotate out thereafter… you absolutely don’t need to stay there unless..

• Mesmer is losing, tell him to rotate out and you rotate in… he doesn’t have to stay there unless u can’t beat him yourself.
• You see a zerg heading your way due to your team wiping mid. Try to burst the guy the mesmer is already on and stay there.

Mistake #2, Start of Game Rotations
So they have a Necro Ele Engi Druid Rev and you have 2 Necros, DH, Mesmer, Thief… Why go mid and expect to win the mid fight? Why go anywhere on a point with Ele+Druid or Ele + X class? Have 1 necro on each side, DH home and rest go far. Let mesmer portal near home and thief rotate between mid decaps and the other two points. Absolutely no need to go head on into mid with sustain classes who will likely snowball the map… but you have a better chance of winning 2v2’s and 1v1’s yourself.

Mistake #3, Learn Class Counters
Condi Mesmers are one of the better 1v1 classes around. They obliterate Revs, Eles, Druids and some Engi’s 1v1. That means you likely don’t need to help +1 unless you need to rotate out and survive or there’s something else going on with the map that requires you to rotate there.

Guardians can’t beat Engi, Rev, Druids. Don’t go home/far to 1v1 any of these classes. Communicate with your team, tell your druid, mesmer, engi to Home while you go mid. You do best with classes who cc+bursts, communicate with your thief/mesmer/necro and focus target.

Thieves + another cc+bursty class can eat up Ele, Revs, Necs and any one else who can’t handle initial burst+cc at start of fight. Instead of complaining you have a thief on your team, work with him and have him focus target as he’ll likely know who to pick (usually.. if they’re good thieves). Rotate that thief around the map, tell him to glue themselves to Revs and DH.

Mistake #4 Understand Sustain Classes
Any class with an Ele is a sustain comp. Druid+Ele are punching bags so unless you have a thief+mesmer and/or DH to cc+burst these classes, you aren’t going to kill them anytime soon. That means this 3v2 fight will last forever, long enough to lose the other points. Same goes for Engi+ele or Engi + druid comps on sides.

Please correct me if there’s inaccuracies here but, these are the mistakes I’ve been seeing since Emerald and it’s even worse in Diamond. It’s not matchmaking, so much as it’s the game; the game is simply harder to play compared to prepatch… much so that rotations are a bigger factor and in the higher leagues, a single player can throw it away for everyone else. You have to actually think about your team comp vs their team comp and how to change playstyle to make it work. Above all we need more communication and map pings+Focus doesn’t seem to be enough right now.

It’s matchmaking period. Teams with higher individual MMR players are matched against teams with lower individual MMR ratings.

THAT’S MATCHMAKING.

Now if you want to type out your monologue about why players earn lower MMR, be my guest.

all your points, assumes your team member is better than its opponent. also all your points are circumstantial. you cannot predict outcome of mid fight. even against team with more sustain builds. how many times did i look at my team comp and said oh kitten im screwed, only to be proven wrong. player experience dictates the outcome. experience teaches them when not to engage or rotate. able to adjust to the given moment and better decision making.

Saiyan.1704:

(…)
Please correct me if there’s inaccuracies here but, these are the mistakes I’ve been seeing since Emerald and it’s even worse in Diamond. It’s not matchmaking, so much as it’s the game; the game is simply harder to play compared to prepatch… much so that rotations are a bigger factor and in the higher leagues, a single player can throw it away for everyone else. You have to actually think about your team comp vs their team comp and how to change playstyle to make it work. Above all we need more communication and map pings+Focus doesn’t seem to be enough right now.

Id like to add a few things, but overall this has been my experience, too.

This meta is all about dps. That team with bigger dps and better player-sustain wins.
That means, that as a dps you simply CANNOT run straight on mid point and expect your tempest to heal you up.
Positioning is absolutely key in this meta. If you are dps… then dont run in like a tank, thinking that tempest will just keep on healing… and that ranger will rezz you.

Overrotating is actually a thing again this season (I guess because of dps meta). Players reacting to every and each little fight going on, they often leave points open… and… something that gets me angry every time I see it… leave a point too soon, causing a teammate to die to downstate necro/ranger and cap to be lost. Just so they can leech a few score points on that already done and over with fight on mid.

Stopped reading after Mesmer 1v1 it’s kitten solo q, you don’t know kitten about this Mesmer. I left Dh 1v1 thief once I ll never do it again, I left necro to stomp Mesmer, he auto attacked clone with scpeter and died from confusion.

You can’t tell them “we desingage” they sometimes doesn’t notice pings kitten kitten.

Lord Hammer Hand.4815:

all your points, assumes your team member is better than its opponent. also all your points are circumstantial. you cannot predict outcome of mid fight. even against team with more sustain builds. how many times did i look at my team comp and said oh kitten im screwed, only to be proven wrong. player experience dictates the outcome. experience teaches them when not to engage or rotate. able to adjust to the given moment and better decision making.

I’m talking about same team mmrs. Teams who know how to stack on ele for heals and teams who know how to focus target correctly. Being on or against any soloQ unsyncronized team and yea, everything’s circumstantial – for both parties. That doesn’t make my certain points less true because I am seeing in Diamond the same mistakes that I’ve saw in Ruby.

Not everyone is experienced in Diamond league and not everyone is experienced in Ruby, Emerald, Amber. You’ll always have more unexperienced players playing amongst experienced players and Matchmaking will never know the difference. Experience will tell a player to let a Mesmer 1v1 a Rev but that same experienced player will also know whether or not Mesmer is struggling vs that Rev to know he needs a helping hand before taking off.

There will always be more bad players than “experienced” players but even “experienced” players have no idea how to work their own team comp at start of game.

Yasi.9065:

Saiyan.1704:

(…)
Please correct me if there’s inaccuracies here but, these are the mistakes I’ve been seeing since Emerald and it’s even worse in Diamond. It’s not matchmaking, so much as it’s the game; the game is simply harder to play compared to prepatch… much so that rotations are a bigger factor and in the higher leagues, a single player can throw it away for everyone else. You have to actually think about your team comp vs their team comp and how to change playstyle to make it work. Above all we need more communication and map pings+Focus doesn’t seem to be enough right now.

Id like to add a few things, but overall this has been my experience, too.

This meta is all about dps. That team with bigger dps and better player-sustain wins.
That means, that as a dps you simply CANNOT run straight on mid point and expect your tempest to heal you up.
Positioning is absolutely key in this meta. If you are dps… then dont run in like a tank, thinking that tempest will just keep on healing… and that ranger will rezz you.

Overrotating is actually a thing again this season (I guess because of dps meta). Players reacting to every and each little fight going on, they often leave points open… and… something that gets me angry every time I see it… leave a point too soon, causing a teammate to die to downstate necro/ranger and cap to be lost. Just so they can leech a few score points on that already done and over with fight on mid.

Over-rotating, great point actually. I’ve noticed this myself. They overextend and end up getting staggered by enemy respawns at far. Can’t tell you how many games I’ve seen this needlessly happen.

ah, thanks Saiyan, Yasi for sharing those !

good tips and advises !!!

Of course player experience will always have an impact on how these points play out, but these are great tips for players who are willing to improve how they play in conquest.

I watched these this morning. Players new to PvP may find some things useful. Perhaps understanding these will improve what we experience with matchmaking.

Conquest Mode Basics
Map Mechanics Explanations
Downstate Skills
Map Awareness / Map Vision
Mindset and Frustration – Not really a guide but something I suggest people view.
Rotation
Kiting
Positioning
Juking
Countering Safestomps
Crowd Control
Using Environment to your Advantage

Ayrilana.1396:

I watched these this morning. Players new to PvP may find some things useful. Perhaps understanding these will improve what we experience with matchmaking.

Conquest Mode Basics
Map Mechanics Explanations
Downstate Skills
Map Awareness / Map Vision
Mindset and Frustration – Not really a guide but something I suggest people view.
Rotation
Kiting
Positioning
Juking
Countering Safestomps
Crowd Control
Using Environment to your Advantage

These are really quite good. Didnt even know all those jumping puzzles

>if you get bad matchmaking do this
>BUT SERIOUSLY IT’S NOT MATCHMAKING THAT’S THE PROBLEM

Try solo queuing sometime buddy and see how far your advice gets you.

But to be more constructive Anet should focus less on MMR crap for matching and more on getting decent mix of professions on each team. At the moment the matchmaking system is pants on head kittened and shows none of the devs ever set foot in PvP arenas.

Soooo, if you get inexperienced players that make these mistakes ingame at higher tiers… Like say first and second tier diamond were I see these issues every match.

It’s not the matchmaking putting bad players in against good…

It’s the players making bad mistakes…. Making them bad players… Being placed in against good players not making the mistakes?

Or did blowouts just vanish in the last couple days?

Matchmaking from the perspective of a season 2 legendary player:

“Look, I know matchmaking isn’t perfect. I had two loses on my way to legendary. TWO!! It could be better but it is better than last season. Last season was a struggle and had nothing to do with skill. The reason I couldn’t win last season was because of my teammates. I don’t understand why people are complaining. All my teammates this season are awesome. It’s so easy and nothing to do with matchmaking. Git gud punk.”

Saiyan.1704:

It’s not matchmaking as much as it’s how certain players handle the comp they’re in, or the comp they’re facing.

Mistake #1, 1v2ing on points…
Players don’t need to 1v2 or 1v3 in every given scenario. That’s called Zerging and it’s very easy to rotate around a Zergy team and get out manned on other points. If you respawn and you see your own Mesmer 1v1ing home, odds are the Mesmer is going to win that 1v1. No need to go there and waste 30s trying to kill a class that’s likely going to die anyways. What you could do is use a couple skills but immediately rotate out thereafter… you absolutely don’t need to stay there unless..

• Mesmer is losing, tell him to rotate out and you rotate in… he doesn’t have to stay there unless u can’t beat him yourself.
• You see a zerg heading your way due to your team wiping mid. Try to burst the guy the mesmer is already on and stay there.

Mistake #2, Start of Game Rotations
So they have a Necro Ele Engi Druid Rev and you have 2 Necros, DH, Mesmer, Thief… Why go mid and expect to win the mid fight? Why go anywhere on a point with Ele+Druid or Ele + X class? Have 1 necro on each side, DH home and rest go far. Let mesmer portal near home and thief rotate between mid decaps and the other two points. Absolutely no need to go head on into mid with sustain classes who will likely snowball the map… but you have a better chance of winning 2v2’s and 1v1’s yourself.

Mistake #3, Learn Class Counters
Condi Mesmers are one of the better 1v1 classes around. They obliterate Revs, Eles, Druids and some Engi’s 1v1. That means you likely don’t need to help +1 unless you need to rotate out and survive or there’s something else going on with the map that requires you to rotate there.

Guardians can’t beat Engi, Rev, Druids. Don’t go home/far to 1v1 any of these classes. Communicate with your team, tell your druid, mesmer, engi to Home while you go mid. You do best with classes who cc+bursts, communicate with your thief/mesmer/necro and focus target.

Thieves + another cc+bursty class can eat up Ele, Revs, Necs and any one else who can’t handle initial burst+cc at start of fight. Instead of complaining you have a thief on your team, work with him and have him focus target as he’ll likely know who to pick (usually.. if they’re good thieves). Rotate that thief around the map, tell him to glue themselves to Revs and DH.

Mistake #4 Understand Sustain Classes
Any class with an Ele is a sustain comp. Druid+Ele are punching bags so unless you have a thief+mesmer and/or DH to cc+burst these classes, you aren’t going to kill them anytime soon. That means this 3v2 fight will last forever, long enough to lose the other points. Same goes for Engi+ele or Engi + druid comps on sides.

Please correct me if there’s inaccuracies here but, these are the mistakes I’ve been seeing since Emerald and it’s even worse in Diamond. It’s not matchmaking, so much as it’s the game; the game is simply harder to play compared to prepatch… much so that rotations are a bigger factor and in the higher leagues, a single player can throw it away for everyone else. You have to actually think about your team comp vs their team comp and how to change playstyle to make it work. Above all we need more communication and map pings+Focus doesn’t seem to be enough right now.

I don’t even think 90% of the community reads forms, wasting your breath, the majority is still going to go do their own thing.

Buffalo Bruiser.3567:

It’s matchmaking period. Teams with higher individual MMR players are matched against teams with lower individual MMR ratings.

THAT’S MATCHMAKING.

Now if you want to type out your monologue about why players earn lower MMR, be my guest.

This is actually a better description:

Teams with any mmr are matched against teams with any mmr. The best team wins.

Say whatever you want. Before the match, you don’t know if the enemy is better or worse, you don’t know if they will play as a team or as @ssholes. You don’t know nothing, but the things you know about yourself. What the op is giving you, is tools to improve yourself, and improve your team also. The enemy team can have any given mmr, you have to beat them nontheless, or you won’t get your next pip.

jessiestiles.9437:

Matchmaking from the perspective of a season 2 legendary player:

“Look, I know matchmaking isn’t perfect. I had two loses on my way to legendary. TWO!! It could be better but it is better than last season. Last season was a struggle and had nothing to do with skill. The reason I couldn’t win last season was because of my teammates. I don’t understand why people are complaining. All my teammates this season are awesome. It’s so easy and nothing to do with matchmaking. Git gud punk.”

Matchmaking from a ruby season 1 and ruby on my way to diamond season 2 player:

season 1 was a nightmare, with very close to 50% win ratio and terrible bad streaks (10 games was the worse). I knew that, to get to diamond, i had to play x number of matches because, no matter what, the game would try to make me lose eventually. I did the math and decided i couldn’t play so many matches in the time i had, so i quit.

season 2 has been much better: i got a bad streak at the start, so no easy ride to legendary for me. I ended up with the worse teammates i ever had and even made a post about it, but i cured it by teaming up with the only 2 randoms that used the search tool. From that moment and on, i left amber pretty quick, i struggled a bit through emerald, and still made it, and by sapphire my mmr was high enough to get me decent players that made the ride a lot easier, but still had 3 losses here and there (followed a lot of times by 3 wins). I also realised (too late, sadly, when i was at sapphire t5) that before 1am a lot of really bad players are around, and matches get exponentially easier if your mmr doesn’t suck.

My best winning streak is 7. My worst losing streak is 5. I never played more than 4 losing games without resorting to grouping afterwards, because I read about people with 30 losing streak and I am definitely NOT going to be that guy.

Rubi started bad: 4 straight loses. But i have discovered a way to boost my MMR that’s working miracles. I am also playing more professions, in order to try to always get a balanced team.

One more thing: i am anything but a great player. I sometimes spam skills that would be better saved, i sometimes take my chances going to some point and I get wrecked, i may have gone wonkers on a revenant while he was using infuse light more often than reasonable, and i notice i destroy the average player i find, meaning, yes, that the average player is really BAD, so no wonder so many people are complaining, uh?

Aenesthesia.1697:

Buffalo Bruiser.3567:

It’s matchmaking period. Teams with higher individual MMR players are matched against teams with lower individual MMR ratings.

THAT’S MATCHMAKING.

Now if you want to type out your monologue about why players earn lower MMR, be my guest.

This is actually a better description:

Teams with any mmr are matched against teams with any mmr. The best team wins.

Say whatever you want. Before the match, you don’t know if the enemy is better or worse, you don’t know if they will play as a team or as @ssholes. You don’t know nothing, but the things you know about yourself. What the op is giving you, is tools to improve yourself, and improve your team also. The enemy team can have any given mmr, you have to beat them nontheless, or you won’t get your next pip.

So essentially everyone should worry about what they are doing to help the game rather than yell at teammates for doing something they probably shouldn’t have. Instead try to adapt accordingly.

NeXeD.3042:

Aenesthesia.1697:

Buffalo Bruiser.3567:

It’s matchmaking period. Teams with higher individual MMR players are matched against teams with lower individual MMR ratings.

THAT’S MATCHMAKING.

Now if you want to type out your monologue about why players earn lower MMR, be my guest.

This is actually a better description:

Teams with any mmr are matched against teams with any mmr. The best team wins.

Say whatever you want. Before the match, you don’t know if the enemy is better or worse, you don’t know if they will play as a team or as @ssholes. You don’t know nothing, but the things you know about yourself. What the op is giving you, is tools to improve yourself, and improve your team also. The enemy team can have any given mmr, you have to beat them nontheless, or you won’t get your next pip.

So essentially everyone should worry about what they are doing to help the game rather than yell at teammates for doing something they probably shouldn’t have. Instead try to adapt accordingly.

exactly!

yelling at teammates may help them realise they are doing someting wrong, but usually people are put off by the yelling and don’t learn kitten. So your efforts are better spent trying to coordinate the mess you have.

also, you never know if the opposing team is not having internal trouble too.

Here’s the reality of Ruby Hell…..

I log in and solo queue up for over 10 minutes. I get placed against a 4 man and one of my “teammates” is already raging. Why is this person I’m stuck with raging, he said he’s been stuck fighting this same 4 man for 4 or so times in a row. We of course lose and their goes a Pip.

I solo queue up again for another 10+ minutes. I get stuck facing this same 4 man again, thought without the raging teammate. We of course lose and their goes a Pip.

I queue up again for another 9+ minutes. I do not get stuck facing a 4 man but, it’s a duo or trio this time. No raging teammate either but, half the match is spent arguing over the definition of a term in relevance to tactics. Long story short, their goes a Pip.

In the end, I logged in for an hour and over half my time was spent sitting in the lobby in queue. In one hour all I received for my time and efforts were three lost matches, three lost pips, and an hour of stress and aggravation. It’s an absolutely horrible season, the worst I’ve played in. It’s just a bad experience in every way possible.

The reality of Ruby is that you probably belong in Ruby. Anybody who disagrees can feel free to post their PvP API key for analysis.

Celeras.4980:

The reality of Ruby is that you probably belong in Ruby. Anybody who disagrees can feel free to post their PvP API key for analysis.

Exactly. Any good player who really wants to climb out of ruby can just go onto a meta build and seek 1v2s all game and carry their team if they have to imo. Of course there are other ways to make a big difference in your team winning as well, but that is a pretty easy one. You’re not going to win every match, but good players will advance.

I said it in another thread, but the fact there are no players who participate on any semi-competitive (AG/PugQuest) or competitive (ESL) teams who are complaining they got stuck tells you a lot about the situation.

Saiyan.1704:

It’s not matchmaking as much as it’s how certain players handle the comp they’re in, or the comp they’re facing.

Mistake #1, 1v2ing on points…
Players don’t need to 1v2 or 1v3 in every given scenario. That’s called Zerging and it’s very easy to rotate around a Zergy team and get out manned on other points. If you respawn and you see your own Mesmer 1v1ing home, odds are the Mesmer is going to win that 1v1. No need to go there and waste 30s trying to kill a class that’s likely going to die anyways. What you could do is use a couple skills but immediately rotate out thereafter… you absolutely don’t need to stay there unless..

• Mesmer is losing, tell him to rotate out and you rotate in… he doesn’t have to stay there unless u can’t beat him yourself.
• You see a zerg heading your way due to your team wiping mid. Try to burst the guy the mesmer is already on and stay there.

Mistake #2, Start of Game Rotations
So they have a Necro Ele Engi Druid Rev and you have 2 Necros, DH, Mesmer, Thief… Why go mid and expect to win the mid fight? Why go anywhere on a point with Ele+Druid or Ele + X class? Have 1 necro on each side, DH home and rest go far. Let mesmer portal near home and thief rotate between mid decaps and the other two points. Absolutely no need to go head on into mid with sustain classes who will likely snowball the map… but you have a better chance of winning 2v2’s and 1v1’s yourself.

Mistake #3, Learn Class Counters
Condi Mesmers are one of the better 1v1 classes around. They obliterate Revs, Eles, Druids and some Engi’s 1v1. That means you likely don’t need to help +1 unless you need to rotate out and survive or there’s something else going on with the map that requires you to rotate there.

Guardians can’t beat Engi, Rev, Druids. Don’t go home/far to 1v1 any of these classes. Communicate with your team, tell your druid, mesmer, engi to Home while you go mid. You do best with classes who cc+bursts, communicate with your thief/mesmer/necro and focus target.

Thieves + another cc+bursty class can eat up Ele, Revs, Necs and any one else who can’t handle initial burst+cc at start of fight. Instead of complaining you have a thief on your team, work with him and have him focus target as he’ll likely know who to pick (usually.. if they’re good thieves). Rotate that thief around the map, tell him to glue themselves to Revs and DH.

Mistake #4 Understand Sustain Classes
Any class with an Ele is a sustain comp. Druid+Ele are punching bags so unless you have a thief+mesmer and/or DH to cc+burst these classes, you aren’t going to kill them anytime soon. That means this 3v2 fight will last forever, long enough to lose the other points. Same goes for Engi+ele or Engi + druid comps on sides.

Please correct me if there’s inaccuracies here but, these are the mistakes I’ve been seeing since Emerald and it’s even worse in Diamond. It’s not matchmaking, so much as it’s the game; the game is simply harder to play compared to prepatch… much so that rotations are a bigger factor and in the higher leagues, a single player can throw it away for everyone else. You have to actually think about your team comp vs their team comp and how to change playstyle to make it work. Above all we need more communication and map pings+Focus doesn’t seem to be enough right now.

What is it with all these threads that assume anybody who point fingers at the MM has to be clueless?

I get it that some ppl are irritated that their prestige is getting tarnished by these allegations but come on this is becoming old and ridiculous since quite some time already.

Celeras.4980:

The reality of Ruby is that you probably belong in Ruby. Anybody who disagrees can feel free to post their PvP API key for analysis.

The reality of ruby is, that there is a TON of players that DONT belong there but grinded their way there.

The whole “have a thief to burst a ele” is good in theory but doesn’t work since HoT.

Very good and useful thread, Saiyan.